Missionaries: Noble and Loving or Arrogant and Intollerant?

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Its common knowledge that christian missionaries in India 'bribe' indians (mainly low caste hindu people) into becoming christian... they're told that they will be helped (food, clothing, shelther etc...) if they convert to christianity...

these 'bribery' tactics are used by many missionaries (especially those in africa and asia)..
 
Salaam/peace;

Heera Singh said:
Its common knowledge that christian missionaries in India....... ..
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yes , it's true that Christians missionaries are very much active in poor areas ; but may be we must not forget that how some or many high class hindus torture lower caste people.



I read that higher caste hindus don't allow lower caste hindus to drink water from the same pond/well, lower caste people are not allowed to even enter in to temples .


May be , that is one of the reasons many Hindus are becoming Chrisitians ??
 
yeah.. ur right... they're treated like dogs by the upper caste people.. which is bad enuff... but again, 2 wrongs dont' make a right..

christian missionaries (and i'm using christian missionaries because they're known to be the most active among those in india) know that low caste hindu people are living a horrid life, and they jump at this chance to convert them... a TRUE servant of the lord does not look at race, colour or religion.. if they were pure at heart they would help them no matter what background they came from... but, alas, they see this as an opportunity to 'increase their numbers'...

if a person chooses to convert their faith to another, then i personally have no problem with that.. to each their own... but when a group uses 'forced converstion' so to speak (and i say 'forced conversion', because these people have no food, water, clothing, shelter, and they're 'forced' to do anything for these things) to 'help' these people, thats where my problem lies... the nerve of some people to say that 'we'll only help you if you become one of us' is astounding... these people who do things like this don't know God, they're not doing any 'service', they're only doing it for their own personal gain...
 
Keltoi said:
That site looks like Jihadwatch....which I'm sure is intentional.
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Just something I found on the net. - Like I stated, if they are converted to help them out of the caste system great, if not, then it's morally wrong don't you think?
 
:haha:.. I love this.. thanks for sharing crusadewatch avar :smile:.. after intense fury over wasted hours that could have been used to feed the cat (who died a while back) taking the tangles out of my ridiculousely long hair or vaccuming the nonexisting carpets on my dark wood floors instead of refuting morons on jihadwatch, I found that now exists a Jewatch and a christian watch.. it just fills my heart with warmth to know there is enough hate to go around..
God bless

cheers
 
Hi Everyone:

Christian missionaries believe that they are following Jesus’ command to spread the Gospel. This Gospel includes feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, tending to the sick, and looking after the widow and fatherless, regardless of whether they choose to believe or not.

Christian missionaries know full well that they can do nothing to convince someone to be a believer. God himself draws people to Himself and people either accept or reject Him – not the missionary. The missionary is there to simply care for people and tell them of their personal experience with Jesus if the people choose to listen.

Missionaries know that they can be despised, persecuted, and even killed in many of the countries to which they go. Many are killed annually, yet they willingly surrender to God and risk their lives in simply doing good and talking about Jesus. They probably make up 99% of all of God’s martyrs.

If you do not want their food, clothing, shelter, medicine, education, or care, then simply say no thank you. Do not persecute them - please.

Regards,
Grenville
 
They probably make up 99% of all of God’s martyrs.
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and how do u figure? source please...

they go in with the intention to convert people... i really think they're main goal is conversion and their secondary goal is helping the needy..

the people i'm speakin out against is those that use this 'help' as a means to 'bribe' people into converting.. and also those that refuse to help unless people convert...
 
I'm fairly tolerant and forgiving towards missionaries. Everyone is responsible for his or her own beliefs. If these missionaries manage the convert someone, well, good for them. And frankly, those actually being converted generally seem thrilled about the whole experience, so why would I feel sorry for anyone.

I'm also very skeptical about these claims of 'bribing'. Firstly, it is obviously an exception and not the rule, so it is somewhat of a straw man. Secondly, like I said, everyone is responsible for his own beliefs. If they can start 'believing' in exchange for money/goods/services, they they seem to want to believe anyway.
 
Hi Heera:

As I explained, their principal goal is to spread the Gospel. This includes helping others and sharing their experience with Jesus. They are both important.

Regarding the “bribing” issue. Either you misunderstood the missionary’s intent, or the person was simply not a missionary. All Christians know that it is impossible to bribe, force, or trick anyone into becoming a believer. The individual must have a personal encounter with God – there is no other way.

Of course, religious organisations have used bribery, trickery and force to compel persons to join their organisations. That is very different from having a relationship with God.

Finally, you asked about the source for the 99% martyr estimate. There is no source. It was arrived at by inductive reasoning.

Q. Who qualifies as a martyr?
A. Those who are killed for their faith in God.

Q. Who are generally killed for their faith in God.
A. Missionaries who leave the comfort of their home and family and go to areas hostile to the Gospel, and those who have been converted in countries hostile to the Gospel.

Q. Who is more likely to be killed?
A. Probably the foreigner because he/she can be easily identified.

Have a great weekend everyone.

Regards,
Grenville
 
KAding said:
I'm also very skeptical about these claims of 'bribing'. Firstly, it is obviously an exception and not the rule, so it is somewhat of a straw man. Secondly, like I said, everyone is responsible for his own beliefs. If they can start 'believing' in exchange for money/goods/services, they they seem to want to believe anyway.
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It really depends on the missionary group in question. They vary along a wide spectrum. There are ones who will simply annoy you with their constant preaching. Mormons and Jehova's Witnesses are pretty harmless, even amusing at times.

Then there are those who will truly intrude on you. I have an inuit friend who had a missionary group enter his community and provide "free daycare" to the children there, never divulging their true motives, and then try to brainwash them, some as young as 5, to turn against their own culture - all without parental consent.

Then there are those who will exploit their sway over you and ask you to send "donations to the church", getting rich off of the foolish.

Then you've got the overseas ones who enter poor communities to "help" them, all in conjunction with their brainwashing message. They prey on the weak and vulnerable and that I find highly offensive.

Then of course there are the outright cults who will take people away to "retreats" and cut off all their contact with the outside world.

Then of course you've got the historical missionaries who did far far worse, giving many "savages" the option of conversion or death.
 
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We shouldnt put all christian missionaries to one basket.For example, I know about catholic missionaries in Senegal, where muslims are 90%.Catholics run there schools where young men and boys can learn not only elementary knowledge but also basics of many technical skills. And majority of students there are muslims and no one tell them to convert, they even have place to pray in that school.We also shouldnt think that all evangelical missionaries are bad,because we talk about people who risk their lives going to countries like North Korea,China,Birma or Cambodia to share with something that they strongly believe in.If someone believes in something that he is ready to die for it, so why would he use such silly things like bribing. He believes that his belief has such power that it is enough to get interested from the local people.That is my opinion of course and I have it from my logical thinking, not from peronal experience,as the only missionaries that I meet are Jaevova Witnesses.
 
Missionary activity is almost an obligation to many fully practicing Christians. I myself was a missionary in Ireland. Yes, I know, hardly a global hotspot. :) I didn't bribe anyone either.

I think where this perception comes from is the duel role a missionary takes when he or she goes into a third world country. There is the missionary activity of spreading the Good News, but also in caring for the poor, sick, and homeless. The fact that they go hand in hand leads many to believe they are using aid to promote a religion. In a way they are, as showing kindness to forgotten people is something Christians take seriously as an example from Christ Himself. It is a way of saying "Here is what I believe, and here is what I do because of it".
 
Keltoi said:
Missionary activity is almost an obligation to many fully practicing Christians. I myself was a missionary in Ireland. Yes, I know, hardly a global hotspot. :) I didn't bribe anyone either.

I think where this perception comes from is the duel role a missionary takes when he or she goes into a third world country. There is the missionary activity of spreading the Good News, but also in caring for the poor, sick, and homeless. The fact that they go hand in hand leads many to believe they are using aid to promote a religion. In a way they are, as showing kindness to forgotten people is something Christians take seriously as an example from Christ Himself. It is a way of saying "Here is what I believe, and here is what I do because of it".
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It is textbook brainwashing. Take somebody in desperation and help them out of it in conjunction with a message for them to believe. It works for governments on enemy prisoners of war, and it works for missionaries on poor vulnerable teens and 3rd world peoples.
 
Pygoscelis said:
It is textbook brainwashing. Take somebody in desperation and help them out of it in conjunction with a message for them to believe. It works for governments on enemy prisoners of war, and it works for missionaries on poor vulnerable teens and 3rd world peoples.
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I don't see anything wrong with helping people out, and for them to see that you're helping them out, and, if they wish, to take the next step by emulating your way of life. If a teacher helps a failing student, then tells the student 'believe in yourself', is the teacher brainwashing the student into a state of self-confidence?

I do see something very wrong with requiring people to convert to your religious/political/sexual orientation etc before you agree to help them.
 
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Pygoscelis said:
Short of answering the door nude or screaming obscenities at them how do you get rid of missionaries?
There has been an upsurge in door to door missionaries (mostly jehovas witnesses) here lately and it has got me thinking. These people at noble and loving but arrogant and intollerant at the same time. It is quite the conflicted state.
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I don't think it's that much of a question of trying to save vs. not trying to save others, but rather a question of finding the most appropriate, functioning method. I do try to "save" people any opportunity I get, but I don't try to force new opportunities. If in a hypotetical case, you ring 100 doorbels and 2 people are mildly interested, 5 lonely people take the opportunity to have a chat and 10 people from other religions will try to convince you instead, whereas the remainder 83 get frustrated, you're doing more damage than good. So I wouldn't say arrogant, but perhaps naive?
 
Pygoscelis said:
It is textbook brainwashing. Take somebody in desperation and help them out of it in conjunction with a message for them to believe. It works for governments on enemy prisoners of war, and it works for missionaries on poor vulnerable teens and 3rd world peoples.
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Yes, I know you believe that people who live in the third world are ignorant empty vessels who are ripe for manipulation. Be that as it may, "brainwashing" has nothing to do with missionary activity. In all of the missionary activities I've been involved with, and there have been a good number of them, the charity work is an act all its own. We don't hide the fact that it is a Christian operation, but we don't expect people to declare faith in Christ before they are given food, clothing, etc. I would say the majority of people simply take what is offered and go on their merry way. For the vast majority of missionaries that is just fine, because it is the act of charity that brings happiness, regardless of who takes advantage of that charity.
 
I'm going to be a bit nasty here, but isn't it a bit hypocritical to accuse Christians of bribing when Islam seems to condone such practices?

“As-Sadaqaat (here it means Zakaah) are only for the Fuqaraa’ (poor), and Al‑Masaakeen (the poor) and those employed to collect (the funds); and to attract the hearts of those who have been inclined (towards Islam); and to free the captives; and for those in debt; and for Allaah’s Cause (i.e. for Mujaahidoon — those fighting in a holy battle), and for the wayfarer (a traveller who is cut off from everything); a duty imposed by Allaah. And Allaah is All-Knower, All-Wise”

[al-Tawbah 9:60]

Doesn't this basically say that Zakat (ie charity money) should only go to non-Muslims in order to attract them to Islam? Looking at some fatwa websites it seems that is the majority opinion?
 

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