Did Allah create life?

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:salamext:

I think the answer has been given, and this thread needs to be closed before it gets out of hand... :mmokay:

 

[Malaikah]

Can you tell me whether man and say, cats, have the same life?

Yeh, I would reckon so. We have a soul, we have a body, body leaves the soul = person dies.

Or, if you are going to get picky on me, it could be something like, heart stops working, brain shuts down, soul leaves body, person (or cat) dies.

Same can't be said about God!

[To be honest, I'm not a 100% sure that animals have souls, but I'm pretty sure, just not a 100%. Either way, your 'life' is not the same as God's 'life'.]

 

[K.Venugopal]

So what you meant by "God being present in everything", you did not mean literally? That's how I understood it, I apologize.

I, K.Venugopal, am not present in the chair I made (let's suppose I am a carpenter) because Venugopal is a physical being and a physical being is a matter-being and matter (me) cannot occupy the space another matter (the chair) occupies. Therefore you will not see Venugopal "in the chair", though you could see me "on the chair" if I happen to be seated on the chair. But if you consider the essessense of me (and you also), then we are not merely physical beings. We are also beings of finer properties. So you might "see" me "in the chair" in the sense that you might recognise the chair as my handiwork.

However, the difference between me the "creator" of the chair and Allah the creator of the universe is that I did not use myself to create the chair whereas Allah used himself to create the universe. Can you guess the "product" he used to create the universe? Life, of course. Truth is, life is not a thing separate from Allah. Life is Allah and Allah is Life. Therefore the Creator is the Creation and the Creation is the Creator.

But the power and strength of Allah are written into everything he makes. I'm doing high school biology, and I'm astounded at how complicated even the simplest organisms are. And everything in this world is one of a kind, a signature design. Since when has anyone ever been able to make any living organism from thin air?

You have stated exactly what I have concluded above. Aren't we thinking alike?

 

[crayon]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "Allah used himself to create the universe".. Could you explain it further?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

When we say God is worthy of praise, it is almost as if we have sat in judgement and decided God is a worthy fellow. God might not be flattered!

Read Gurbani all shall be made clear!

 

[K.Venugopal]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "Allah used himself to create the universe".. Could you explain it further?

Before creation nothing would have existed except Allah. Therefore creation occurred when the ONE decided to become MANY. He would have said, "Let this be" and "Let that be" and they became. You could say Allah's thoughts or desire or will became creation. We say, "Allah's will" as if Allah and His will are separate. Allah and His will may be different, but they are not separate - just as a dancer and her dance may be different, but you cannot separate the dancer and the dance. Out of the dancer came the dance. The dance ended, the dancer remains. Out of the ocean came the waves and back to the ocean goes the waves. The ocean and the waves are different, but the ocean and the waves are not separate. Likewise out of Allah came the creation and Allah and creation are different, but they are not separate. In the end, we all go back to Allah.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Yeh, I would reckon so. We have a soul, we have a body, body leaves the soul = person dies.

Or, if you are going to get picky on me, it could be something like, heart stops working, brain shuts down, soul leaves body, person (or cat) dies.

Same can't be said about God!

[To be honest, I'm not a 100% sure that animals have souls, but I'm pretty sure, just not a 100%. Either way, your 'life' is not the same as God's 'life'.]

If you agree (or thereabouts) that the thing that enlivens us and the cats is the same thing, call it life, soul, essence or consciousness and further that pain, hunger, fear etc. are the same in man and cat (though each man and each cat might react differently to the same circumstance) then could it not be the same thing that enlivens God? Though God, certainly, reacts differently to the same circumstances He faces. (For if he did not face the same circumstances, how could be all-knowing?) I must confess I have only my petty logic to bank on to see that life is a single indivisible thing and that life is indeed God. So the Quran appears to be per se wrong in saying that Allah created life. Which is why I started this thread – to discuss on whether the Quran actually got it wrong on this.

 

[crayon]

Before creation nothing would have existed except Allah. Therefore creation occurred when the ONE decided to become MANY.He would have said, "Let this be" and "Let that be" and they became. You could say Allah's thoughts or desire or will became creation. We say, "Allah's will" as if Allah and His will are separate. Allah and His will may be different, but they are not separate - just as a dancer and her dance may be different, but you cannot separate the dancer and the dance. Out of the dancer came the dance. The dance ended, the dancer remains. Out of the ocean came the waves and back to the ocean goes the waves. The ocean and the waves are different, but the ocean and the waves are not separate. Likewise out of Allah came the creation and Allah and creation are different, but they are not separate. In the end, we all go back to Allah.

"Therefore creation occurred when the ONE decided to become MANY."
See, I would say creation occurred when ONE decided to create MANY. Not become. Which leads to Allah's will/desire/power/etc. to create everything, not become it. Which leads to the idea that Allah and his creation are different entities.

 

[Mikayeel]

Now this statement makes me jump in again.

Why should a God be worthy to be worshipped if he/she/it/thing created us so imperfect? I mean, up from the first breath we take, we are doomed to die. Already oxygen kills us.
And in between, we have to suffer so many pains and face so many trials, so I would I worship him/her/it?

Peace

I find this well funny! How me the one worships that god has no complains at all, and u who lacks the faith is complaining.

All these trials, pains all my problems I see as a blessing that THE ONE LORD who is worthy of worship is testing me! (YES ME !! )

While on the other hand u be very depressed when undergoing such trial, u be worried dying from oxygen etc.....

U choose; a worry depressed life at times, or a faithfull and hopefull life.

I hope u go for the latter one.

 

[K.Venugopal]

All these trials, pains all my problems I see as a blessing that THE ONE LORD who is worthy of worship is testing me!

This I agree entirely with you. This is the quintessence of spirituality. Actually, I'd go to the extent of saying that problems do not exist at all - everyone, everything and every circumstance is perfect - if only we wake up from our nightmare born of ignorance. And we might even come to realize that we have all along being none other than the Allah we were worshipping. (OK, I concede my last sentence would sound blasphemy to you. I apologize if I hurt you, but as a Hindu, such a teaching is my most precious knowledge.)

 

[K.Venugopal]

"Therefore creation occurred when the ONE decided to become MANY."
See, I would say creation occurred when ONE decided to create MANY. Not become. Which leads to Allah's will/desire/power/etc. to create everything, not become it. Which leads to the idea that Allah and his creation are different entities.

Since God could not have created life and since he could not have created creation without life (not just He having life, but he needed life for creation) creation actually meant that the Creator became creation. Life cannot create life. Life can only take different forms in an act of creation.

 

[crayon]

Life cannot create life.

Says who?
Says your human mind and logic. But human mind and logic are unable to comprehend the eternal nature of Allah. There is a limit to what we can understand, the how Allah came to be passes that limit.

 

[guyabano]

I find this well funny! How me the one worships that god has no complains at all, and u who lacks the faith is complaining.

All these trials, pains all my problems I see as a blessing that THE ONE LORD who is worthy of worship is testing me! (YES ME !! )

While on the other hand u be very depressed when undergoing such trial, u be worried dying from oxygen etc.....

U choose; a worry depressed life at times, or a faithfull and hopefull life.

I hope u go for the latter one.

No, I couldn't choose. Why did God not ask me at my birth if I want to follow his path or not? In that case, I would have said NO and I could have been spared from all the trials and pains in life. I could lead a perfect life !
I don't worship somebody who give me trials and pains.

Oh my...

peace

 

[Mikayeel]

No, I couldn't choose. Why did God not ask me at my birth if I want to follow his path or not? In that case, I would have said NO and I could have been spared from all the trials and pains in life. I could lead a perfect life !
I don't worship somebody who give me trials and pains.

Oh my...

peace

God is ever so Merciful! If he finds one atom of hope or faith in your heart he will increase that! I am sure God did ask u perhaps not in a direct way u that u imaged.

You will go trough the trials of life whether you believe in a god or not! The way you handle the trials however varies greatly if u believe or not.

These poor souls commiting suicide because the pressure of life became to severe...
An old guy killed him self because he lost his cat! He happens to have no firm believe. Now ask ur self a person with firm faith and believe, would he of done the same? I am pretty sure he would of not.

What is your way of life guyabano?

 

[K.Venugopal]

Says who?
Says your human mind and logic. But human mind and logic are unable to comprehend the eternal nature of Allah. There is a limit to what we can understand, the how Allah came to be passes that limit.

Unfortunately we are only humans and we have to live and prosper by our mind and logic. So the human mind and logic asks, "If Allah created life, was He dead till he created life? Or is He still dead?" Since we cannot get an answer from Allah unless we wait till Judgement day, we have to rely on the Quran itself to come up with an answer. Can anyone quote the Quran for a logical answer? I suppose anything else would be mere mortal opinions.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Life cannot create life.

What I meant here is that if it was life which created life, then that life would not have had life till its creation, right? So did something dead create life? That's not possible, because the dead is not supposed to be able to do anthing. Therefore, the logical conclusion can only be that life cannot create life - life can only manifest itself in various forms in the act of creation.

 

[*Maysun]

When your Lord said unto the angels “indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority.” They said will you place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare your praise and sanctify you? He {Allah} said, “Indeed, I know that which you do not know.”

this is how the human started

Allah has no end or begining, his not dead or never be.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

God is ever so Merciful! If he finds one atom of hope or faith in your heart he will increase that! I am sure God did ask u perhaps not in a direct way u that u imaged.

You will go trough the trials of life whether you believe in a god or not! The way you handle the trials however varies greatly if u believe or not.

These poor souls commiting suicide because the pressure of life became to severe...
An old guy killed him self because he lost his cat! He happens to have no firm believe. Now ask ur self a person with firm faith and believe, would he of done the same? I am pretty sure he would of not.

What is your way of life guyabano?

Are you saying religious people do not comit suicides? Are you saying religious people are not depressed or are less depressed than the non-religious?

 

[Dr.Trax]

Salam Alakym!

Take a look around you from where you sit. You will notice that everything in the room is "made": the walls, the upholstery, the ceiling, the chair where you sit, the booklet you hold in your hand, the glass on the table and countless other details. None of them happen to exist in your room of their own accord. Even the simple loops of the carpet were made by someone: they did not appear spontaneously or by chance.

A person who is about to read a book knows that it has been written by an author for a specific reason. It would not even occur to him that this book might have come into being by chance. In the same manner, a person who sees a sculpture has no doubt whatsoever that it was made by a sculptor. And not just works of art: even a few bricks resting on top of one another make one think that they must have been brought to rest just so by someone within a certain plan. Therefore, everywhere where there is an order - either small or big - a founder and protector of this order must also exist. If, one day, somebody came forward and said that raw iron and coal came together to form steel by chance, which in turn constructed the Eiffel Tower again by chance, would not he and those who believed him be regarded as insane?

The claim of the theory of evolution, the unique method of denying the existence of God, is no different from this. According to the theory, lifeless atoms formed amino acids by chance, amino acids formed proteins by chance, and finally proteins formed living creatures again by chance. However, the probability of a living creature being formed by coincidence is less than the probability of the Eiffel Tower being formed in the same manner, because even the simplest living cell is more sophisticated than any man-made structure in the world.

How is it possible to think that the balance in the world came about by coincidence when the extraordinary harmony of nature is observable even with the naked eye? It is the most unreasonable claim to say that the universe, each point of which suggests the existence of its Creator, has come into being on its own.

Therefore, there should be a designer of the balance visible everywhere from our body to the farthest corners of the inconceivably vast universe. So, who is this Creator that ordained everything so subtly and created all?

He cannot be any material being present within the universe, because His must be a will that existed before the universe and created the universe therewith. The Almighty Creator is One in Whom everything finds existence, yet Whose existence is without any beginning or end.

Religion teaches us the identity of our Creator Whose existence we discover with our reason. Through what He has revealed to us as religion, we know that He is God, the Compassionate and the Merciful, Who created the heavens and the earth from nothing.

Although most people have the capability to grasp this fact, they spend their lives unaware of it. When they look at a landscape painting, they wonder who its painter is. Later, they praise the artist at length for his beautiful work of art. Despite the fact that they face numerous originals of the natural world he painted the moment they turn around, they still disregard the existence of God, Who is the only owner of all these beauties. In truth, no lengthy research is needed to understand the existence of God. Even if one of us had to live in a room from the time he was born, countless pieces of evidence in this room alone would be enough for him to grasp the existence of God.

The human body so overflows with evidence that it could not be contained in many multi-volumed encyclopaedias. Giving only a few minutes of conscientious thought to it all is enough to understand the existence of God. The present order is protected by God and maintained by Him.

The human body is not the only food for thought. Life abides in every square millimetre of the earth, be it observable by men or not. The world overflows with many living beings, from unicellular organisms to plants, from insects to sea animals, and from birds to human beings. If you take a handful of soil and look at it, even therein you can discover manifold living creatures with diverse characteristics. The same is true also for the air you breathe. Even on your skin, there are many living creatures whose names are unknown to you. In the intestines of all living beings are millions of bacteria or unicellular organisms that help digestion. The animal population in the world is many times greater than the human population. When we also consider the plant world, we see that there is not a single spot on the earth where there is no life. All of these creatures that are spread over an area of millions of square kilometres have different body systems, different lives and different contributions to the ecological balance. It is preposterous to claim that all these have come into existence by chance with no aim or purpose. No living being has come to exist through its own accord or effort. No coincidental happening can ever result in such complicated systems.

All of this evidence leads us to the conclusion that the universe works with a certain "consciousness". What, then, is the source of this consciousness? Surely it is neither the living nor the non-living beings in it. Nor can they be the ones that maintain the harmony and preserve the order. The existence and glory of God reveals itself in countless proofs in the universe. In fact, there is not even a single man on the earth who will not accept this evident reality from the heart. Yet they still deny it "in iniquity and arrogance, though their souls are convinced thereof" as stated in the Qur'an. (The Qur'an, 27:14)

 

[Mikayeel]

Are you saying religious people do not comit suicides? Are you saying religious people are not depressed or are less depressed than the non-religious?

No no no, never would I say that. I am just going with the majoraty (People with no faith or believe are far more likely to kill them self. At the end of the day if ur life is not worth living due what ever kind of problems then suicide could b an optinion because there is no life after death...)

Religious people in my eyes r muslims btw! I dnt no about other religions, but ofcourse muslims get depressed some even get as far as suicide!

A minoroty though! That will ever get as far as Suicide. They perhaps weren't good muslims at all, otherwise they would of not killed them self.