Why doesn't God Stop all the suffering on Earth?

[Nerd]

If I ask you to explain all the suffering on this earth (human and otherwise) despite God’s tenure of all His divine abilities and mercifulness,

You would present the standard apologists’ response; God’s divine psyche does not have to be on par with that of the human or more specifically, God does not necessarily have the very human emotion of empathy.

Which I could rebuff by highlighting the various similarities (that I could draw) between the divine and human ‘minds’:
jealousy (conditioning absolute belief in His unity),
possessiveness (worshiping /reverence)
and the most controversial, vengefulness (dreadful mechanisms of torture) just to name a few.

So if God can have these idiosyncrasies which are reflected by our human nature, why not empathy? Would not a compassionate and omnipotent being do all that is in its power to save mankind (or any other creature) from constant suffering and certain doom?

 

[barney]

I remember posting something similar about the Tsunami in 2005 that wiped out 700000 people.
It diddnt get many replies, but the one I remember is "Perhaps it was their time" and "Perhaps the children who died would have grown up as sinners"
The best answer in my opinion was "God Knows Best"

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Nerd;

We all die at some point, and yes we look on the Tsunami as catastrophic, but will the victims of the tsunami have something greater in a life after death?

I think if you attach to much importance to our short life on Earth then you may overlook a possible answer. If you have a faith in God, the solution might be in how God is preparing us for a greater life after death.

In the spirit of searching for a loving and forgiving God

Eric

 

[glo]

Hi Nerd

I don't think you will ever get a safisfactory answer to that question. That's because we just cannot fathom God's ways from our human perspectives.

We try. With answers such as "Perhaps it was their time" and "Perhaps the children who died would have grown up as sinners" ... and how terribly judgmental and patronising those answers sound. :-[

I am imagining how I might feel, if a loved one had died in some terrrible accident, and somebody gave a response such as this to me. I would probably be screaming mad angry!

I guess in times of suffering and tragedy we might well question God and our faith.
Some may turn their back and lose their faith.
Others may gain an acceptance that despite the terrible thing that has happened, God is still in it; God is still good; God is still loving; and God has a purpose. (As my Muslim friends here put it so well, God knows best)

But that's a decision each has to make for themselves. To put it upon other would probably be patronising and insulting ...

(As a sidenote, you have to remember that Christians (I am not too sure about Islamic teaching on this one) believe that one day indeed there will be no more pain or suffering or tears ... however, not in this earthly life ...)

Peace

 

[crayon]

As muslims, we believe that all this life is simply a test. You are tested with hardships along the way, and you have to be patient and thankful if you want to reach heaven.

If life was all rainbows and sunshine, what would be the point of it all?

 

[ranma1/2]

so what would be the point of the afterlife if its all rainbows and sunshine?

 

[------]

:salamext:

^ You get rewarded/punished for the deeds you did in this life.

 

[crayon]

The afterlife is not all rainbows and sunshine, hence heaven and hell. The after life exists so that justice can be served. Those who followed the correct path will be rewarded, those that did not will be punished. Because yes, Allah is compassionate and merciful, but he is also just. Those that passed the test do not deserve the same end as those that did not.

 

[Malaikah]

Crayon said it well. The whole point of this life is that there will be hardships, this life was never created for us to have nothing but ease. this was God's intention all along. That is what paradise is for.

That being said, just because something bad happens to use, doesn't mean there isn't good that comes from it, as highlighted by this story from the Quran:

65. Then they found one of Our slaves, unto whom We had bestowed mercy from Us, and whom We had taught knowledge from Us.

66. Mûsa (Moses) said to him (Khidr) "May I follow you so that you teach me something of that knowledge (guidance and true path) which you have been taught (by Allâh)?"

67. He (Khidr) said: "Verily! You will not be able to have patience with me!

68. "And how can you have patience about a thing which you know not?"

69. Mûsa (Moses) said: "If Allâh will, you will find me patient, and I will not disobey you in aught."

70. He (Khidr) said: "Then, if you follow me, ask me not about anything till I myself mention it to you."

71. So they both proceeded, till, when they embarked the ship, he (Khidr) scuttled it. Mûsa (Moses) said: "Have you scuttled it in order to drown its people? Verily, you have committed a thing "Imra" (a Munkar - evil, bad, dreadful thing)."

72. He (Khidr) said: "Did I not tell you, that you would not be able to have patience with me?"

73. [Mûsa (Moses)] said: "Call me not to account for what I forgot[], and be not hard upon me for my affair (with you)."

74. Then they both proceeded, till they met a boy, he (Khidr) killed him. Mûsa (Moses) said: "Have you killed an innocent person who had killed none? Verily, you have committed a thing "Nukra" (a great Munkar - prohibited, evil, dreadful thing)!"

75. (Khidr) said: "Did I not tell you that you can have no patience with me?"

76. [Mûsa (Moses)] said: "If I ask you anything after this, keep me not in your company, you have received an excuse from me."

77. Then they both proceeded, till, when they came to the people of a town, they asked them for food, but they refused to entertain them. Then they found therein a wall about to collapse and he (Khidr) set it up straight. [Mûsa (Moses)] said: If you had wished, surely, you could have taken wages for it!"

78. (Khidr) said: "This is the parting between me and you, I will tell you the interpretation of (those) things over which you were unable to hold patience.

79. "As for the ship, it belonged to Masâkîn (poor people) working in the sea. So I wished to make a defective damage in it, as there was a king after them who seized every ship by force.

80. "And as for the boy, his parents were believers, and we feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief.

81. "So we intended that their Lord should change him for them for one better in righteousness and near to mercy.

82. "And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the town; and there was under it a treasure belonging to them; and their father was a righteous man, and your Lord intended that they should attain their age of full strength and take out their treasure as a mercy from your Lord. And I did it not of my own accord. That is the interpretation of those (things) over which you could not hold patience."​

chapter 18.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

you might aswell ask why God doesnt just make earth a heaven then.

This place isnt the final resting place, its a testing ground.

simple...

 

[Keltoi]

Just think of the phrase "natural disaster." Is God to blame for every tree that falls, every rock and mudslide, and every hurricane? In one aspect, yes, since He was the source of all natural creation. The question would be, is God responsible for making the tree fall on you in the woods? Or is God responsible for not saving you from the falling tree? I think we all agree that God could save you from the falling tree if that was His wish. Fundamentally it comes down to whether one believes in predestination or not. Is everything that you do and everything that is done to you all part of God's divine will? Somehow I'm going to conclude we don't know the answer to that question.

 

[Malaikah]

Fundamentally it comes down to whether one believes in predestination or not. Is everything that you do and everything that is done to you all part of God's divine will? Somehow I'm going to conclude we don't know the answer to that question.

Actually the Islamic answer to that question is yes.:thumbs_up

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Evil is not attributed to Allah because He has legislated that we do good, and call against evil.


Mankind does evil, out of disobedience to Allah. Yet man has been given the choice of picking good over evil or evil over good. If he does good, he is rewarded, if he does evil - he is punished, yet He is the Most Merciful to those who regret and mend their ways.

And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allâh) said: "I know that which you do not know."

[Qur'an 2:30]



​

It may be that there is a great deal of good through this thing which we percieve as evil. Yet Allah has not made this world as an eternal home. He has sent us Messengers and ordered us to believe in them, and follow them. He has placed in this world good and bad to trial His servants on their sincerety to Him, and every soul has been destined death - then we will return to Him and be informed of all that we did, and no-one will be dealt with unjustly. Each will be given a recompense of what they used to do.

 

[Keltoi]

Actually the Islamic answer to that question is yes.:thumbs_up

Perhaps I shouldn't have said "we"...

If one believes every single incident in one's life is dictated by God, how does one explain the small every day trials...like a paper cut, the common cold, a wasp sting, ....the Brown Recluse spider that bit me the other day..etc, etc. I don't know...I have a hard time thinking that God is interested in putting me through mundane trials like stubbing my toe...I think human free will and natural chance play a huge role in all of this. Of course that doesn't mean God doesn't know what happens or is going to happen to you.

*I'm speaking as a philosophical human...not a representation of theology.

 

[Gator]

What about the 3 year old that dies of cancer. That's her test?!

There's definitely a survivorship bias in this idea.

Everyone thinks this is a test and that you suffer through the hardships. Well, what about the people who don't make. What if they had lived and redeemed themselves?

The idea is everyone gets there fair shot, which is hardly the case.

Is Sudden Infant Death Syndrome a test for the parents and screw the little kid?

 

[Malaikah]

Well, life wouldn't exactly be 'realistic' without 'mundane trials', will it? :?

Anyway, in Islam, we believe all hardships, no matter how small, expiate a persons sins, so that paper cut and spider bit might have just wiped out a couple of sins committed a few days ago...

 

[Keltoi]

Well, life wouldn't exactly be 'realistic' without 'mundane trials', will it? :?

Anyway, in Islam, we believe all hardships, no matter how small, expiate a persons sins, so that paper cut and spider bit might have just wiped out a couple of sins committed a few days ago...

Interesting way of looking at it

 

[- Qatada -]

People are trialled through ease and hardship. Your children, family and wealth are a trust from Allah which you, and every other will be questioned about, and everyone is trialled in their own way.

Each person will be judged by the Most Just,the same way they were born, lived and died alone, they will be ressurected alone. Each step of your life is a trial, and every breath you have in life is a chance for you to redeem yourself. But every soul has a time in which it will taste death, and then there will be no turning back. What you had earned during this passing abode will be what will be brought forth along with you on the Day of Recompense.


No-one will be dealt with unjustly, so whatever you face in life - Allah is aware of it. If you were forced or coerced into something evil - then He is the Knowing, Aware of that, and He will not hold you responsible for that, but doing evil out of choice will be a source of regret for the evildoer. Each person will be judged independently, their own life will be what they will be judged for, not anothers. Therefore each has his/her own responsibility, and each can only succeed by obedience to Allah and His Messenger.



His slave & Messenger calls to what is good, and calls away from evil. He unites mankind on what they differed, by the will of Allah. He calls them to be sincere to God, and to establish the prayer and to give in charity. He calls them to upholding the ties of the family, and to help the needy. He is known as the most truthful (Al-Ameen) by even those who opposed him, because he was brought up and lived among them.

He warned us of the consequences of our actions and deeds in this life, and that we are responsible for them. And he gave glad tidings of reward and mercy to those who believed and did good for the pleasure of their Lord, while warning of a severe punishment in the life to come, for those who rejected the Promise of their Lord.

 

[aamirsaab]

What about the 3 year old that dies of cancer. That's her test?!

There's definitely a survivorship bias in this idea.

It is up to God who lives and who dies - noone else.

Everyone thinks this is a test and that you suffer through the hardships. Well, what about the people who don't make. What if they had lived and redeemed themselves?

No, you are to learn from the test. I will give a personal example. At As and A level accounts, during college years, I was the shiznit. No joke - at one point, I taught the class room. You could ask anyone in that college about me (even those not in my year --- hell, one time a student who was 1 year above me asked for my help on accounts due to my reputation) and they'd say: yes, he is the absolute shiznit at accounts. The exam comes, I get an E. I did everything in my ability to ascertain an A (note; from my actions, I was a master at accounts at the time as already illustrated). Heck, there were people in my class who were absolute crap at accounts and still managed to beat me overall. Noone (not even the teachers, who admitted I was the shiznit in all my parents evenings) knows why I got an E - I personally thing the examiner was on crack but that's by the by. Yeah it ticked me right off - I freakin cried like a baby (for 5 minutes) because of it.

But, that's the way it goes. The example I gave was to illustrate that you can do everything in your power to succeed but one time you will fail. Is that to purely make you suffer? No. It is to teach you something - which is individual for every person who goes through that test.

The idea is everyone gets there fair shot, which is hardly the case.

Absolutely. Many beings let alone human get a fair shot at life. Thus, God has blessed us with compassion and consideration for all His creations. And as such we should show this through our actions.

Is Sudden Infant Death Syndrome a test for the parents and screw the little kid?

Only God can answer this.

If we are not tested then how do we know where we stand? Also, who is to say that SID syndrome is just to test the parents of that child? What if you or I are also being tested. That's the way I approach it at least.

As for the topic; I believe someone stated it before: the question could also be phrased as why not just plunk us all in heaven or hell. It is simple; we as humans have to first help them. God will aid us (this is because this life is a test for US!)

 

[YusufNoor]

If I ask you to explain all the suffering on this earth (human and otherwise) despite God’s tenure of all His divine abilities and mercifulness, You would present the standard apologists’ response; God’s divine psyche does not have to be on par with that of the human or more specifically, God does not necessarily have the very human emotion of empathy.

Which I could rebuff by highlighting the various similarities (that I could draw) between the divine and human ‘minds’:
jealousy (conditioning absolute belief in His unity),
possessiveness (worshiping /reverence)
and the most controversial, vengefulness (dreadful mechanisms of torture) just to name a few.

So if God can have these idiosyncrasies which are reflected by our human nature, why not empathy? Would not a compassionate and omnipotent being do all that is in its power to save mankind (or any other creature) from constant suffering and certain doom?

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

i disagree with the premise that Allah[Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala] has not done everything in HIS power to save us. HE DID send thousands upon thousands of Prophets and and hundreds of Messengers to warn, educate and save mankind. so why do we blame HIM when it is us that refuse to obey HIM? we have the free will to disobey and we appear to take full advantage of it, so why whine about the consequences UNLESS you do YOUR PART by returning to Allah[Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala] and accepting the guidance the HE provided via HIS Messenger, Muhammad ibn Abdullah [Salla Allahu Alayhe Wa Salaam]?

regarding items such as the tsunami, i remember a lecture by Mufti Ismail ibn Musa Menk. in it he presented the the plight of those who were caught in sin at the moment of the disaster and the martyrdom of those who were in Ibadah at the same moment. also in the second volume of the Ma'ariful Qur'an we are told (although the ayat escapes me at the moment) that we will die as we have lived So if you have Ikhlas and Sabr and perform all of your responsibilities that Allah [Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala] will take you upon that state. if you shirk your responsibilities and are careless with your Ibadah, you have no such promise.

we tend to compare INFINITY in the Akhira with a few miserable years in the dunya! we tend to deny that Allah [Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala] will judge us or that HE even hast the RIGHT to judge us, yet we have no worries about judging HIM! Nowoothu Billah!

Gator wrote
What about the 3 year old that dies of cancer. That's her test?!

There's definitely a survivorship bias in this idea.

Everyone thinks this is a test and that you suffer through the hardships. Well, what about the people who don't make. What if they had lived and redeemed themselves?

The idea is everyone gets there fair shot, which is hardly the case.

Is Sudden Infant Death Syndrome a test for the parents and screw the little kid?

you don't believe in Allah[Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala], so there no way you are going to know that 3 year old will be in Jannah, nor will you understand the concept of Allah's[Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala] justice. it actually appears that YOU are the one denying them justice by denying the ONE who, provides justice.

it is YOU that claims the victim of SIDS has been somehow shortchanged or that Allah [Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala] is somehow unfair. all of your misconceptions are based upon your denial of Allah[Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala]!

La Ilaha Ilah Allah, Muhammadur Rasulullah could change all of that, but we have no power to convince you of that. you have to change yourself first...