Attitudes on apostasy softening?

[جوري]

lol I don't seek anyones approval but Gods

All three of them?

nor have I labeled anyone beliefs imaginary.

yeah, it was your fellow commiserate.. Sure he'll be glad to learn, that you became an apostate not to atheism but to the dark ages!

I came here because even though I'm an apostate I still miss the debates I had with people in my family.

An unlikely story-- but amusing and virtually appealing..

cheers

 

[Izyan]

I feel for you.

I can't relate as I was raised by fairly secular people (though my mother is a christian she didn't push it on my dad or myself or my sister at all), but I have heard similar stories from others in similar situations, mostly from fundamentalist christian backgrounds.

It amazes and scares me how people can turn on their loved ones for what to me are entirely irrational beliefs, imaginary gods, etc.

All i can really say is that its probably for the best that you are away from them, so their influence does not effect your own children and continue the cycle of intollerance.

Don't feel sorry for me feel sorry for them. Their close mindeness will hinder them in life. When you shut off any part of society you lose. I've taken away a lot from Islam that I will benefit from. I've taken Hindu and Budhism philosophies and used them too. If people just open up it will enrich their lives. I've learned some pretty nteresting things in my travels.

 

[Woodrow]

Don't feel sorry for me feel sorry for them. Their close mindeness will hinder them in life. When you shut off any part of society you lose. I've taken away a lot from Islam that I will benefit from. I've taken Hindu and Budhism philosophies and used them too. If people just open up it will enrich their lives. I've learned some pretty nteresting things in my travels.

It is a good thing to seek good in other religions and find that which is in agreement with our own beliefs. But, we can not pick and choose. If we are to follow God(swt) we must follow not just what is easy or what is compatible with our desires. To believe means to accept even that which is difficult and strive to understand why.

I personally found that Islam is the true path to serve Allaah(swt), most of it is a very easy path. But, there are challenges that can be difficult to follow, at those times I do my best to learn more and try to understand why they seem difficult for me. Through study and striving to understand I find that the difficult makes sense and becomes easy.

To believe in God(swt) requires a full desire to serve him, it is not a desire to try to make Allaah(swt) give us what we want. It is for us to serve and to serve because God(swt) is worthy of our service.

For myself, I have only found that in Islam.

 

[Izyan]

All three of them?

I like how you used that typo of Gods instead of God's to insult me. I can explain the trinity to you if you are confused. There is only one God Jehovah or Allah be as it may and the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ is a part of him

yeah, it was your fellow commiserate.. Sure he'll be glad to learn, that you became an apostate not to atheism but to the dark ages!

Actually if you think about it wouldn't Islam be going back? In the Old Testament, Koran, Torah, Talmud, whatever you want to call it God was pretty vengeful wasn't he. Musa, Elijah, Job, Noah, Esther, David, Solomon, all have stories of God's vengence against not only their enemies but against themselves. When Isa came around all that changed. Isa said he came not to destroy and condemn but that you may have life and have it more abundantly. When Isa came the rules and God's vengence lightened up. He healed beggars and thieves, and adulters and liars. If you sought him he didn't turn you away. He didn't care he just took care of you. He saved an adulterer from being stoned to death. That person didn't call out to him he just did it. So now you're telling me that Allah is going to follow up this man who today would be considered an ultra liberal with a Therocratic back to hell, fire and brimstone type of prophet. It's almost as saying Allah made a mistake with Isa and he sent Muhammed to fix it. Last time I checked Allah don't make mistakes.

 

[Izyan]

It is a good thing to seek good in other religions and find that which is in agreement with our own beliefs. But, we can not pick and choose. If we are to follow God(swt) we must follow not just what is easy or what is compatible with our desires. To believe means to accept even that which is difficult and strive to understand why.

I personally found that Islam is the true path to serve Allaah(swt), most of it is a very easy path. But, there are challenges that can be difficult to follow, at those times I do my best to learn more and try to understand why they seem difficult for me. Through study and striving to understand I find that the difficult makes sense and becomes easy.

To believe in God(swt) requires a full desire to serve him, it is not a desire to try to make Allaah(swt) give us what we want. It is for us to serve and to serve because God(swt) is worthy of our service.

For myself, I have only found that in Islam.

I think you miss understood me. I don't go against God's word but there are things we can learn from others that don't conflict with our deen.

 

[جوري]

I like how you used that typo of Gods instead of God's to insult me. I can explain the trinity to you if you are confused. There is only one God Jehovah or Allah be as it may and the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ is a part of him

I went to catholic school and minored in theology, I am very much acquainted with your beliefs!

Actually if you think about it wouldn't Islam be going back?

I have thought about it.. going back to paganism and Greek mythology of a man/God is more in concert with christianity than Islam!

In the Old Testament, Koran, Torah, Talmud, whatever you want to call it God was pretty vengeful wasn't he. Musa, Elijah, Job, Noah, Esther, David, Solomon, all have stories of God's vengence against not only their enemies but against themselves.

That is the OT version of God!

When Isa came around all that changed. Isa said he came not to destroy and condemn but that you may have life and have it more abundantly. When Isa came the rules and God's vengence lightened up. He healed beggars and thieves, and adulters and liars. If you sought him he didn't turn you away. He didn't care he just took care of you. He saved an adulterer from being stoned to death. That person didn't call out to him he just did it. So now you're telling me that Allah is going to follow up this man who today would be considered an ultra liberal with a Therocratic back to hell, fire and brimstone type of prophet. It's almost as saying Allah made a mistake with Isa and he sent Muhammed to fix it. Last time I checked Allah don't make mistakes.

lol.. hilarious.. you must not be a good book keeper since the bible is wrougt with 'Godly' errors, Mistakes and remorse.. so I'd have to say your account of Jesus is also your own postulated biblical sense of him.. he does stand out as the odd one in the midst of all of God's other messengers?

in closure, as I don't have much time to waste on nonesense..

• I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword is one of the reported sayings of (A teacher and prophet born in Bethlehem and active in Nazareth; his life and sermons form the basis for Christianity (circa 4 BC - AD 29)) Jesus in the (The sacred writings of the Christian religions) Bible. It is a common case of confusion dealing with understanding Christian parables. In ((New Testament) disciple of Jesus; traditionally considered to be the author of the first Gospel) Matthew 10:34-36
• "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household."
  
  
• Similarly, in the (One of the four Gospels in the New Testament; contains details of Jesus's birth and early life) Gospel of Luke, 12:51-52 Jesus says:
• "Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three..."

cheers

 

[Malaikah]

Actually if you think about it wouldn't Islam be going back? In the Old Testament, Koran, Torah, Talmud, whatever you want to call it God was pretty vengeful wasn't he. Musa, Elijah, Job, Noah, Esther, David, Solomon, all have stories of God's vengence against not only their enemies but against themselves. When Isa came around all that changed. Isa said he came not to destroy and condemn but that you may have life and have it more abundantly. When Isa came the rules and God's vengence lightened up. He healed beggars and thieves, and adulters and liars. If you sought him he didn't turn you away. He didn't care he just took care of you. He saved an adulterer from being stoned to death. That person didn't call out to him he just did it. So now you're telling me that Allah is going to follow up this man who today would be considered an ultra liberal with a Therocratic back to hell, fire and brimstone type of prophet. It's almost as saying Allah made a mistake with Isa and he sent Muhammed to fix it. Last time I checked Allah don't make mistakes.

So what your saying is that you believe God had some kind of personality change.

Right.:skeleton:

 

[Izyan]

So what your saying is that you believe God had some kind of personality change.

Right.:skeleton:

Well I can say you guys are crazy for worshiping a giant moon rock. Be careful what you insult because your beliefs might be next to be mocked.

 

[Malaikah]

Insult? I was merely re-stating what you said yourself.

Much less offensive than your saying:

It's almost as saying Allah made a mistake with Isa and he sent Muhammed to fix it. Last time I checked Allah don't make mistakes.

Double standards? Why is it okay for you to claim that out beliefs equate to Allah making a mistake but its an insult for me to say that your God underwent a personality change? Especially when we don't believe God made mistakes but you are the one who described what could only be seen as a personality change!

By the way, call me crazy for worshipping a giant moon rock, I'll just laugh because we don't even do that.

 

[Izyan]

Insult? I was merely re-stating what you said yourself.

Much less offensive than your saying:



Double standards? Why is it okay for you to claim that out beliefs equate to Allah making a mistake but its an insult for me to say that your God underwent a personality change? Especially when we don't believe God made mistakes but you are the one who described what could only be seen as a personality change!

By the way, call me crazy for worshipping a giant moon rock, I'll just laugh because we don't even do that.

I said that to prove a point to the previous about mocking people and you just did the exact same thing. I didn't call you crazy. I said you could be called crazy because of the whole Black Stone business.

 

[Roasted Cashew]

Well I can say you guys are crazy for worshiping a giant moon rock. Be careful what you insult because your beliefs might be next to be mocked.

It's OK to mock something you know but sometimes it's better to keep our mouth shut and not reveal how stupid we are. Muslims don't worship any Giant Moon Rock. Pls get your facts straight. Embracing Pagan believes has had a very bad effect on your brain. Indeed we could be called crazy by people who don't understand Islam but YOU? This is not expected from you.

Oh, YES! God having sons and daughters is straight from the Pagan play book.

 

[Izyan]

It's OK to mock something you know but sometimes it's better to keep our mouth shut and not reveal how stupid we are. Muslims don't worship any Giant Moon Rock. Pls get your facts straight. Embracing Pagan believes has had a very bad effect on your brain.

Oh, YES! God having sons and daughters is straight from the Pagan play book.

Reading is fundamental. I know the black rock is said to come from heaven and it first came to earth it was white. It became black when it absorbed the sins of man. Muslims don't worship the rock the they try to kiss it as Muhammed did. Now to someone outside of Islam it looks like you guys worship a giant moon rock like it look like Chistians worship 3 seperate people when we actually worship 1. Like I said be careful at what you mock because your beliefs might be next.

 

[Malaikah]

Like I said be careful at what you mock because your beliefs might be next.

You are simply being a hypocrite because you are the one who said something that could be taken as an insult first.

I repeat, why do you consider it okay that you can say the Muslim God made a mistake but I can't say that you are implying that your God had a personality change?

Please explain to me how this is not a double standard. Perhaps you should take your own advice.

 

[Izyan]

You are simply being a hypocrite because you are the one who said something that could be taken as an insult first.

I repeat, why do you consider it okay that you can say the Muslim God made a mistake but I can't say that you are implying that your God had a personality change?

Please explain to me how this is not a double standard. Perhaps you should take your own advice.

I've already explained myself and taking this conversation any farther will result in both of being reprimanded.

 

[Malaikah]

you haven't explained your self at all. Either you are understand my point or I am not understanding yours.

But from where I am standing you've it seems like you don't realise the double standards in your own posts.

 

[glo]

Reading this thread and judging by the severity of questions fired at Izyan upon him mentioning that he is an apostate, I am starting to think that attitudes on apostasy aren't softening all that much ... :mmokay:

May I suggest that you take your religious debate in the Comparative Religions section?
And may I suggest that we welcome Izyan into this forum in the manner we show to other newcomers?

Remember: To you your religion, to me mine.

If Izyan has made his choice (just like the rest of us), then one day he will stand before the Lord to justify himself (just like the rest of us). I trust that the Lord will judge him justly (just like the rest of us).

Peace to you all.

 

[Roasted Cashew]

...like it look like Chistians worship 3 seperate people when we actually worship 1.

Of course you worship three separate entities. Maybe you wanna watch a few debates:-

Is Jesus God? Ahmed Deedat vs Anis Sorrosh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-Nc-WRtB_o&feature=related

 

[barney]

Meh, its the christian beleif that God is one and the trinity is one. OK, so facts and logic might say otherwise, but its their beleif.
Theres no mainstream Christian sect that preaces the divisibility of god.

 

[aamirsaab]

I have no problems with apostates. What gets on my nerves is that these so called muslim apostates always seem to be so bitter about Islam. If I was to put my psychology hat on, I'd have a freakin field day with apostates - so much to write about!

You know what, one day I'ma write me a book!

 

[Abdul Fattah]

1. I truly believed up until I was a teenager.

2. At around 17 I became curious and started studying other religions from Christians to Wiccans. The more I read about christianity the more it felt right to me. I went to a church a couple of towns over when I was 22 and I was hooked. That being said I do keep an open mind and embrace evreyones beliefs but govern my life as a christian.

Thanks for your reply, and just ignore those flamers, I guess it was unavoidable

So would you agree that your decision was more of an emotional one rather then a logical one? (i.e. you chose because you felt attracted to it, not because you found it to make more sense). Or did I understand you wrong?