David Myatt and Islam

[vernon]

I am doing some research into the life of David Myatt at the moment and discovered this older post on your message board:

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38737&highlight=myatt&page=2

in the 'Lifestyle' section, called 'Famous Converts to Islam' (about a third of the way down). It concerns the conversion of David Myatt.

The only information I can find from independent sources at the moment is this:

http://rigorousintuition.yuku.com/topic/821/t/David-Myatt-Searchlight-article.html

and this:

http://www.declarepeace.org.uk/captain/murder_inc/site/nazi.html

(if either of these are considered inappropriate for your forum, I will delete them immediately. I only include them to provide some context for the nature of my enquiries).

Apart from these, I have recently discovered one other piece of interesting information on another message board. This posting claims that Myatt is no longer a Muslim.


Quote:

According to the latest Statement for Journalists that you issued, dated January of this year, you have committed yourself to The Numinous Way. Does this mean that you have finally abandoned Islam?

The Numinous Way is a Way of Life, and this Way is quite different from, and indeed incompatible with, Islam, especially in relation to the concepts of the folk and Nature as living-beings, and the belief that we have a duty to aid, and evolve, these living beings which are themselves but emanations of The Cosmic Being. In addition, the ethics of The Numinous Way - which establish what is right, and wrong and from which we must derive our laws - are totally different from the ethics of Islam, based as the ethics of The Numinous Way are upon personal honour, empathy. Part of this empathy is a recognition of ourselves as nexions, as a connexion between our folk, Nature and The Cosmic Being.

So yes, I am not a Muslim. I have striven to explain the fundamental differences in my essay The Theology of The Numinous Way, which is a re-write of my older essay The Theology of National-Socialism. I have re-written that essay because The Numinous Way of Folk Culture differs not only from Islam, but also from National-Socialism. For The Numinous Way does not depend on National-Socialism in any way. Rather, it is National-Socialism which depends - or should depend - on the ethics and the essence of The Numinous Way.....


There were three links with the original posting. One of them has been deleted. The other two only contain fragments of the quote above – neither of them includes the part which specifically states that Myatt is no longer a Muslim.

Does anyone know what the current situation is?

I have not provided links to this material, in case its source is offensive to Muslims. However, I will provide these links if requested. Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[abdullah-krm]

Assalam Alaikum

The poster of the above message is a kaffir troublemaker, a stalker, who has posted a similar message, about Abdul-Aziz ibn Myatt, on dozens of forums in the last month.

This person is probably the zionist stalker who was the subject of the following thread on As-Sahwah forums and who has been stalking brother ibnmyatt for over seven years.

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=1838

This stalker has repeatedly insulted the Prophet (SAW).

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=62282&postcount=13

His (?her) aim is to give links to biased sites containing biased articles about Abdul Aziz ibn Myatt, while pretending to ask for information. It's thus just a sly attempt to spread malicious allegations about the person while hiding behind anonymity.

He makes the idiotic claim that he can "only find" the links he gives - while anyone "doing some research" would have found the Wikipedia article about Myatt which gives a fairly balanced over-view of the man and link for further research:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Myatt

Anyone "doing some research" would also have found ibnmyatt's own website and his numerous articles in the past three years in which he has denied the malicious claims that he is no longer Muslim. For example:

http://www.davidmyatt.info/jstatement.html

and

http://www.davidmyatt.info/ibnmyatt_interview.html

The errors of this stalker include the absurd claim that "The only information from independent sources..."

Wrong. Neither of the quotes sources are independent. One is a conspiracy site by a conspiracy nut; the other is a political organization which has been posting unsubstantiated allegations about Myatt for twenty years, and which is itself rumored to be linked to Britain's MI5 (see the Wikipedia article about this "Searchlight" group for more info).

 

[vernon]

I am so cross that I am being accused of insulting your religion. I utterly refute this accusation and challenge my accuser to provide evidence of this. I was so happy at the warm welcome I got here - even though I am a non-Muslim – and I give you my absolute word of honor that I have never defamed the Prophet. Nor have I ever made posts on the IslamicAwakening forum. I have never seen these threads before. If you look at the links below, you will see that the criticism of all these posts is virtually identical to the one on your board. Why is he stalking me and why is he only a Muslim when he posts here?

It was me who made the polite initial requests for help and in virtually every instance I have been followed to these message boards and insulted by the person who is stalking me. You will notice that in most cases, my detractor is a brand new member and has presumably registered for the specific purpose of attacking my work. He has stalked me to all these different message boards (and more).

http://www.bloglines.com/forums/read.php?10,8827
http://www.defendingthetruth.com/affirmative-action-race-issues/16518-david-myatt.html
http://libcom.org/forums/theory/david-myatt-islam-04042008
http://www.abovepolitics.com/forum/thread347540/pg1
http://www.politicsforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34386&sid=d7ccc0db890e97547189954328873a96
http://www.bnvillage.co.uk/village-square/98714-david-myatt-islam.html
http://www.blackpresence.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=330

One is prompted to ask why anyone would be so concerned about David Myatt that they would join all these message boards just to snipe at one insignificant posting amongst thousands. Why the frantically obsessive attempts to suppress two harmless links. Someone must be very frightened of what the 'Searchlight' and 'Declare Peace' articles contain.

In answer to some of the accusations made against me:

Yes I have made the same posting on different message boards the world over. That is how the internet works. If one is seeking out information, the web is a massive resource and it doesn't make sense to limit the search to my own locality. I made the same posting on different forums because that is how computers work – why type out different versions? Whilst you may not like the links I posted, they are at least demonstrably written by someone other than Myatt himself – which is perhaps what all this hostility is really about. I can't begin to imagine why you think links to texts that are clearly written by Myatt himself – or have some input from him – could ever be classed as 'independent resources'. Clearly they are not independent by any measure.

Finally, the situation regarding the 'Wikipedia' is a little more complex. There was a case recently, where a relatively well known musician had posted details about his life on Wikipedia. Due to to the interactive nature of this resource, one of his 'fans' repeatedly rewrote the entry with 'facts' which were a direct contradiction to the man's real life. The musician corrected these mistakes time and again, but his 'fan' was so persistent, that in the end the subject of the article had his life circumscribed by a stranger! It works both ways of course. If the subject of an entry is persistent enough, they can suppress information about themselves. The last I heard was that this was becoming such a problem, that certain categories of entry would lose the 'interactivity' which makes Wikipedia such a unique resource. Don't get me wrong, Wikipedia is wonderful for all uncontested areas of knowledge, but for anything contentious, I would always be concerned about missing information.

 

[abdullah-krm]

I am so cross ...

Methinks this person doth protest too much.

If you really are doing "some research" go over to the Islamic Awakening forum, and ask the brothers there, who know Myatt.

Why are you avoiding posting your message on that particular Muslim forum? Because your ploy would soon be exposed.

For anyone of any sagacity can see right through your "polite request" for info - as I pointed out in the first reply to your initial post.

Instead of answering the points made about your post being just a trick to spread malicious rumors and allegations about Myatt, you now just use the tired old Usenet-type tactic of making counter accusations, of trying to shift the focus away from your factual errors, of which there are many.

So, what about the many factual errors contained in your original short post?

Thus, I repeat the points:

1) If you really are doing some serious research, then you would have found far more than the two spurious so-called "independent" items you linked to. Items such as books by Professor Kaplan, and Professor Michael.

2) If you had done even some preliminary, elementary research you would have found that Myatt did not "announce his conversion" to the world, as you claimed.

3) What about your error that "It made quite an impact in the UK press at the time..."? It went unnoticed for almost two years.

4) What about your error that "since then I have heard nothing..." ? Like I wrote, you missed the full page story in The Times newspaper; you missed Myatt's question and answer session on Sheikh Qaradawi's website. You missed an awful lot more.

5) What about your erroneous claim that the two sources you could find (obviously your Google or Yahoo searches are very different from mine) are "independent"? They are not independent in any shape or form. Onemakes the claim - without providing any evidence - that Myatt was/is an MI5 agent), and one is a political organization which even many on the Left in Britain find somewhat dubious because of its (alleged) links with MI5 and its past divisive actions within the Left. The people at Searchlight are just part of The Fourth estate: they do not deal in facts, but in innuendo, smear, allegations and assumptions.

As for the allegation that Myatt is MI5, this has now been taken further, with claims that he's a 5GW operative (wow!) - but again, proof is lacking. It's just assumption.

See

http://www.skilluminati.com/Research/entry/the_language_of_power

and

http://aboutmyatt.wordpress.com/200...ve-mi5-agent-trickster-mage-or-simply-muslim/


So, the most likely conclusion is - due to all these errors and mistakes - that your post is just a ruse to spread unsubstantiated allegations about Myatt. If it was not, you would at the very least have given some other links which balanced the biased view of Searchlight - which, BTW, never presented any evidence for their allegations, ever. Check out:

http://aboutmyatt.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/david-myatt-and-searchlight-rumors/


Or are you just "J" - the person whose posted very similar items on other forums about a certain Richard Moult (a friend of ibn Myatt's before Myatt conversion) because you have a personal grudge against Moult?

 

[Fishman]

Two n00bs fighting eachother! Quit with the silly conspiracy theories and junk...

As far as I know, David Myatt remained a Nazi after he converted to Islam, he just stopped hating Asians and Muslims.

 

[abdullah-krm]

As far as I know, David Myatt remained a Nazi after he converted to Islam

Salaam,

Not true.

May I suggest you read his many, many, denunciations of his former nazi and racist views?

There's one, for example, on the live dialogue he did on Sheikh Qaradawi's website:

http://www.islamonline.net/livedialogue/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=61ud64

Then there's the answers he gave to brothers on the Islamic Awakening forum:

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=1858

Then there's the item he wrote for the (now banned) "Saved Sect" which is included in his "From Neo-Nazi to Muslim":

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=827

There are lots more.

 

[Fishman]

Salaam,

Not true.

May I suggest you read his many, many, denunciations of his former nazi and racist views?

There's one, for example, on the live dialogue he did on Sheikh Qaradawi's website:

http://www.islamonline.net/livedialogue/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=61ud64

Then there's the answers he gave to brothers on the Islamic Awakening forum:

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=1858

Then there's the item he wrote for the (now banned) "Saved Sect" which is included in his "From Neo-Nazi to Muslim":

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=827

There are lots more.

But he does hate Jews still. He said it in an interview he gave to a newspaper.

 

[abdullah-krm]

Two n00bs fighting eachother!

I think it's called defending the honour of one's brother in Islam.

 

[abdullah-krm]

But he does hate Jews still. He said it in an interview he gave to a newspaper.

I think it's zionists rather than Jews per se. But it's a moot point I suppose.

Fact is, he's renounced his former racist and nazi views, and now understands nationalism and racial separation as taghut.

wa’l-salaamu alaika

 

[Fishman]

I think it's called defending the honour of one's brother in Islam.

I just thought seeing two limited members arguing against eachother using all manner of weird websites and language was rather funny, as was the fact that nobody else had posted.

 

[vernon]

Quote: "May I suggest you read his many, many, denunciations of his former nazi and racist views?"

The problem with these links is that they don't seem to be getting much coverage on Nazi message boards. A poster on one of these racist forums said that if I wanted to know about Myatt I could speak to him there and then on their own board! The poster he alleged was Myatt called himself 'Aryan Lord'. I did not take up his offer because 'Aryan Lord' could be anyone and might misrepresent Myatt's views. It seems there are an awful lot of Nazis going around saying that Myatt is not a Muslim. Myatt needs to sort these people out once and for all and it cannot be done on Muslim forums. He needs to confront the Nazi's directly on their own territory. Unless he sorts this out properly there will always be confusion.

For the record, I haven't got a clue who Richard Moult or 'J' is.

Because of the confusion about whether certain people are posing as Myatt on various message boards, I wont be visiting 'Islamic Awakening' until the whole matter is cleared up.

There is growing evidence that some internet messageboards are being used for systematic I.D. theft. I chose Islamic Board for my posts because it is well run, but many messageboards are not. Please see my new thread called " Harassment " for details. This link is published in the new thread:

http://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/london/2008/06/400087.html

 

[vernon]

Some time ago, I read a message board post which said that David Copeland had converted to Islam. It was claimed that this happened soon after he was sentenced for the murder and maiming of innocent people in the Admiral Duncan, Brick Lane and Brixton, nail bombings. See:

http://www.declarepeace.org.uk/captain/murder_inc/site/nazi.html

for the background to these atrocities.

Has anyone seen confirmation of Copeland's conversion from any independently verifiable source (newspaper report, news agency etc.)?

Incidentally, the original Searchlight link:

http://rigorousintuition.yuku.com/topic/821/t/David-Myatt-Searchlight-article.html

seems to be down intermittently.

A more reliable one can be found here:

http://rigorousintuition.yuku.com/forum/viewtopic/id/821
Which is part of this interesting article:

http://osdir.com/ml/culture.discuss.cia-drugs/2005-08/msg00685.html

 

[vernon]

I am still not sure if the story about Copeland is apocryphal or not. However, on BBC radio 4 news on Friday 20th, another (ex?) nazi, Steven Jones, has converted to Islam in prison. This seems an extraordinary coincidence, in view of his background. What do other people think? Do you think he really can have given up his old ways?

More significantly, he is being isolated from other prisoners because of his religion.

The whole situation seems suspect to me.