if Allah the all seein all hearin...

[truemuslim]

i realise u got questions yeh, so do i, but wallahi dis is just being disrespectful to Allaah, so hav sum respect n dat yeh

sfe

lol how it bein disrespectfull? Was it the way i sayd it ? if so , i didnt mean it however u thought it :embarrass

 

[Ali.]

lol how it bein disrespectfull? Was it the way i sayd it ? if so , i didnt mean it however u thought it :embarrass

Also, you, you seem to be not taking what anybody has to say, no offense. Why can't Allah control someone when he's 40, you say? I explained this on like page 2 it's because he gave us conscience to think for ourselves and that is the test.

 

[truemuslim]

Also, you, you seem to be not taking what anybody has to say, no offense. Why can't Allah control someone when he's 40, you say? I explained this on like page 2 it's because he gave us conscience to think for ourselves and that is the test.

nah every answer pretty much leads me to more questions. dats all.
Btw, who control our conscience?
A.L.L.A.H.

 

[Ali.]

nah every answer pretty much leads me to more questions. dats all.
Btw, who control our conscience?
A.L.L.A.H.

Do you even know what conscience is?
It gives you thinking ability to think through choices, options, to decide what is right what is wrong, something animals don't have for example.

So Allah (Swt) gave us our conscience while creating us, but we have to put that conscience to good use insha'Allah.

 

[truemuslim]

Do you even know what conscience is?
It gives you thinking ability to think through choices, options, to decide what is right what is wrong, something animals don't have for example.

So Allah (Swt) gave us our conscience while creating us, but we have to put that conscience to good use insha'Allah.

Yah i kno.
But cmon do you seriously think allah will create us, and create everything about us, then not do anything but watch us disobey him?
And animals are lucky den arnt they.
They dont have to be near shaitan. they just live there life, and get jannah after....i think.

 

[Ali.]

Yah i kno.
But cmon do you seriously think allah will create us, and create everything about us, then not do anything but watch us disobey him?

Erm, this Qur'an verse comes to mind:

The creation of the heavens and the earth is indeed greater than the creation of mankind, yet most of mankind know not.
(40:57)

How do you know He hasn't created more? On the other side of the universe? Ever looked out into the sky at night and become mesmerised by the stars? What else, apart from us, could lurk there?

 

[truemuslim]

Erm, this Qur'an verse comes to mind:

The creation of the heavens and the earth is indeed greater than the creation of mankind, yet most of mankind know not.
(40:57)

How do you know He hasn't created more? On the other side of the universe? Ever looked out into the sky at night and become mesmerised by the stars? What else, apart from us, could lurk there?

I don't get it :embarrass

Are you saying he's too busy to do stuff here because he's workin on the other side?

 

[Ali.]

I don't get it :embarrass

Are you saying he's too busy to do stuff here because he's workin on the other side?

No, you said "so Allah created us to watch us disobey him."

How do you know we're all He's created?

 

[truemuslim]

No, you said "so Allah created us to watch us disobey him."

How do you know we're all He's created?

So you mean theres could be more livin stuff back there or did you not get the point? :embarrass:embarrass

 

[Ali.]

So you mean theres could be more livin stuff back there or did you not get the point? :embarrass:embarrass

The way that verse has been put, yes it seems there is more out there in the universe, but Allahu A'lim. So what you said about Allah creating us and watchin us disbelieve is wrong. Again, Allahu A'lim.

I think you should forget about this and think about it in half a year or something, you seem totally confused.

 

[------]

Yah i kno.
But cmon do you seriously think allah will create us, and create everything about us, then not do anything but watch us disobey him?
And animals are lucky den arnt they.
They dont have to be near shaitan. they just live there life, and get jannah after....i think.

no they dont

they get turned into dust on the Day of Judgement, after Judgement is over.

 

[truemuslim]

The way that verse has been put, yes it seems there is more out there in the universe, but Allahu A'lim. So what you said about Allah creating us and watchin us disbelieve is wrong. Again, Allahu A'lim.

I think you should forget about this and think about it in half a year or something, you seem totally confused.

Yah but allah can take it. He created it he can defidently handle it.
Did Allah lose control of us and the shaitan?

noway. I would be converted out if i wait
Why wait. Won't change nothing. besides nobody knows how long they gna live yo! (except allah)

 

[truemuslim]

no they dont

they get turned into dust on the Day of Judgement, after Judgement is over.

Better than being burnt to dust

 

[Ali.]

Yah but allah can take it. He created it he can defidently handle it.
Did Allah lose control of us and the shaitan?

noway. I would be converted out if i wait
Why wait. Won't change nothing. besides nobody knows how long they gna live yo! (except allah)

Everything is getting so repetetive now. Forget about it. Come back to it in half a year, or a year, whatever suits you. You're confusing yourself, let your mind calm and then come back to think about it insha'Allah with a clear mind.

 

[------]

Better than being burnt to dust

point. i wud rather be a stone/leaf/flower/angel, that constantly praise Allaah and do not sin

 

[truemuslim]

Everything is getting so repetetive now. Forget about it. Come back to it in half a year, or a year, whatever suits you. You're confusing yourself, let your mind calm and then come back to think about it insha'Allah with a clear mind. And much more questions

Besides What if i die
Faithless. and punished.
Better sooner than later.

point. i wud rather be a stone/leaf/flower/angel, that constantly praise Allaah and do not sin

lool sis i kno, That was my point somewhere back in this thread.
If allah could've just created us like he created all the other things, unable to sin, just obey allah 24/7 then not have to be punished. Coz its like the people of the dunya. They think they got everything now, then in the end they get punished. OR they can get everything halal now, and obey allah, and not sin not once, and then get jannah , better than being punished because we risked to care about having "free" will....a.k.a. Punishable Will.
As if its our choice tho

 

[Ali.]

Besides What if i die

Ask Allah (swt) insha'Allah...

Better sooner than later.

Wrong. In this situation I believe it is better later with a clear and understanding head, refreshed from the past.

 

[TrueStranger]

TrueMuslim

In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful​

This is going to be a long post, so embrace yourself. I am trying my best with the help of Allah.

Ok well ...a quick question (another...quick question) for you...

ok well if allah is the all seeing all hearing knows when what is gonna happen, why and how its gonna happen then how come when iblis didnt bow down to adam allah had to see who of us will follow him?

Iblis disobeyed Allah when he refused to prostrate to Adam.

In The Noble Qur'an Surah Al-A'raf Verse 7:11-18 it is stated:

11. And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then We told the angels, "Prostrate to Adam", and they prostrated, except Iblîs (Satan), he refused to be of those who prostrate.

12. (Allâh) said: "What prevented you (O Iblîs) that you did not prostrate, when I commanded you?" Iblîs said: "I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay."

13. (Allâh) said: "(O Iblîs) get down from this (Paradise), it is not for you to be arrogant here. Get out, for you are of those humiliated and disgraced."

14. (Iblîs) said: "Allow me respite till the Day they are raised up (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)."

15. (Allâh) said: "You are of those allowed respite."

16. (Iblîs) said: "Because You have sent me astray, surely I will sit in wait against them (human beings) on Your Straight Path.

17. Then I will come to them from before them and behind them, from their right and from their left, and You will not find most of them as thankful ones (i.e. they will not be dutiful to You)."

18. (Allâh) said (to Iblîs) "Get out from this (Paradise) disgraced and expelled. Whoever of them (mankind) will follow you, then surely I will fill Hell with you all." ​

Allah also said in Surah Surah Al-A'raf to Adam (PBUH)

7-19. "And O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in Paradise, and eat thereof as you both wish, but approach not this tree otherwise you both will be of the Zâlimûn (unjust and wrong¬doers)."

20. Then Shaitân (Satan) whispered suggestions to them both in order to uncover that which was hidden from them of their private parts (before); he said: "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree save you should become angels or become of the immortals."

21. And he [Shaitân (Satan)] swore by Allâh to them both (saying): "Verily, I am one of the sincere well¬wishers for you both."

22. So he misled them with deception. Then when they tasted of the tree, that which was hidden from them of their shame (private parts) became manifest to them and they began to stick together the leaves of Paradise over themselves (in order to cover their shame). And their Lord called out to them (saying): "Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you: Verily, Shaitân (Satan) is an open enemy unto you?"

23. They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not, and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers."

24. (Allâh) said: "Get down, one of you an enemy to the other [i.e. Adam, Hawwa (Eve), and Shaitân (Satan), etc.]. On earth will be a dwelling¬place for you and an enjoyment, - for a time."

25. He said: "Therein you shall live, and therein you shall die, and from it you shall be brought out (i.e.resurrected)."​

Adam was thrown out of Paradise for eating the forbidden tree. And after seeing his mistake, Adam and Hawa asked for forgiveness, and Allah forgave them.


And then Allah warns us by saying in Surah Al-A'raf

26. O Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover yourselves (screen your private parts, etc.) and as an adornment, and the raiment of righteousness, that is better. Such are among the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, that they may remember (i.e. leave falsehood and follow truth[]).

27. O Children of Adam! Let not Shaitân (Satan) deceive you, as he got your parents [Adam and Hawwa (Eve)] out of Paradise, stripping them of their raiments, to show them their private parts. Verily, he and Qabîluhu (his soldiers from the jinns or his tribe) see you from where you cannot see them. Verily, We made the Shayâtin (devils) Auliyâ' (protectors and helpers) for those who believe not.​

What i mean is didn't allah already know it was gonna happen?

Yes, Allah knows what it was going to happen.

2:30. And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allâh) said: "I know that which you do not know."​

Allah knew that Iblis will not bow down, but the angels didn’t know that,

2:33 He said: "O Adam! Inform them of their names," and when he had informed them of their names, He said: "Did I not tell you that I know the Ghaib (unseen) in the heavens and the earth, and I know what you reveal and what you have been concealing?"​

2:34. And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves before Adam.". And they prostrated except Iblîs (Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allâh).​

Iblis has been concealing his hate for Adam, but the All-Knowing All-hearing was well aware of it, and when he was ordered to prostrate to Adam his pride and disobedient to Allah was in full display for everyone to see.

If so, then how come he didn't stop it?

Are you questioning Allah?

And doesn't allah control everything?

Yes, dear.

If so, why'd he let this happen?

Because it is His Will.

And couldn't allah just make shaitan disapear right there and save the big pain in de ...something??

yes, Allah could do as He Wills, but Allah does NOT BREAK HIS PROMISE

14. (Iblîs) said: "Allow me respite till the Day they are raised up (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)."
15. (Allâh) said: "You are of those allowed respite."​

And also, when you think bout it, when we get punished in the grave for our sins, or go to hell, or something, its because shaitan makes us do it, but shaitan is shaitan coz he didnt bow down to Adam, and Allah could've made non of this happen, and Allah could have made iblis not do what he did, and Also...

You can’t blame all your disobedience on Satan, no my friend. Satan is nothing more than mere whispers, while you are the one who carries out the actions. Be consistence in prayers, the Quran, and the Sunnah. You are being punished not because of Satan’s sin, but because you choice to follow him after Allah has warned you about Satan.

7:16. (Iblîs) said: "Because You have sent me astray, surely I will sit in wait against them (human beings) on Your Straight Path.

7:17. Then I will come to them from before them and behind them, from their right and from their left, and You will not find most of them as thankful ones (i.e. they will not be dutiful to You)."

7: 27. O Children of Adam! Let not Shaitân (Satan) deceive you, as he got your parents [Adam and Hawwa (Eve)] out of Paradise, stripping them of their raiments, to show them their private parts. Verily, he and Qabîluhu (his soldiers from the jinns or his tribe) see you from where you cannot see them. Verily, We made the Shayâtin (devils) Auliyâ' (protectors and helpers) for those who believe not.​

Why are we have to suffer for what iblis did? Don't this sound a bit...schoolish? you kno, when the geek siting next to u do something and YOU get in trouble?

What do you mean by we? Are you counting yourself as those who are following satan, for none shall be punished except those who follow Satan.

7:18. (Allâh) said (to Iblîs) "Get out from this (Paradise) disgraced and expelled. Whoever of them (mankind) will follow you, then surely I will fill Hell with you all."​

You are not suffering, say Alhamdu’illah, you are being tested, and second of all you will not be held accountable for what Iblis or Adam(PBUH) has did, but rather your own actions and deeds. Adam was tested, and he failed, but Adam (PBUH) asked for forgiveness, and Allah forgave him.

2:37. Then Adam received from his Lord Words. And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful.
​

The path of forgiveness is open to us, let not Satan deceive you. Ask Allah to always guide you down the righteous path and be of those who are thankful and dutiful to Allah by following the Quran and Sunnah.

May Allah forgive me if I have made any mistakes unintentionally. imsad.

We are all in need of guidance. May Allah guides us till the last day, for none can misguide those whom Allah guides.

http://muttaqun.com/adam.html

 

[TrueStranger]

Haha, forgive me you are going through exactly what I went through once before. The worse doubts hit me when I was praying one day at night. I battled with myself for a while and in the end kept on believing. Now, I am more clearheaded and I can see that I was being foolish before and Allah was testing me. And I can honestly say that I think I passed! ( taht one atleast hehe)

Anyways, religion is not fake. We live in trying times with atheists and kuffars running everywhere influencing us at every turn. Allah has granted us the blessing of this test. It is a blessing in that I think Allah felt that we were up to the challenge. No soul is burdened beyond what it can take. In short, chill, do something relaxing and keep on believing. The Prophet may have been speaking about our wretched time when he said this


The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

“Some people will come on the Day of Judgement and their Imaan will be outstanding, it’s light will shine from their chests and from their right hands. So it will be said to them, ‘Glad tidings for you today, Assalamu ‘alaikum and Goodness for you, Enter into it (Jannah) forever!’ So the Angels and the Prophets will be jealous of the Love of Allah for them.”

So the Sahabah asked, “Who are they, Ya Rasoolullah?” He (sallahu ‘alayhi wasalam) replied, “They are not from us and they are not from you. You are my companions but they are my beloved. They will come after you and will find the Book (the Qur’an) made redundant by the people, and a Sunnah which has been killed by them. So they will grab hold of the Book and the Sunnah and revive them. So they read them and teach them (the Qur’an and the Sunnah) to the people and they will experience in that path a punishment more severe and more ugly than what you (O Sahabah) have experienced. Indeed the Imaan of one of them is equivalent to the Imaan of forty of you. The Shaheed of one of them is equivalent to forty of your Shuhadaa’. Because you found a helper towards the truth (the Prophet) and they will find no helper towards the truth. So they will be surrounded by tyrant rulers in every place, and they will be in the surroundings of Baitul-Maqdis (Al-Quds, Masjid al-Aqsa). The Nussrah (Help and Victory) of Allah will come to them, and they will have the honour of it on their hands.” Then he (sallahu ‘alayhi wasalam) said, “O Allah, give them the Nussrah and make them my close friends in Jannah.”

- Reported by Ahmad:

Does the hadith mean the Palestinians??? What a lucky lot, may Allah help them.

 

[Abdul Fattah]

Selam aleykum

Why would allah allow shaitan to have a delay for his punishment so that he can lead everyone else astray??

Because he asked for it, and because Allah subhana wa ta'ala is the most mercifull. How about turning the question around, why wouldn't Allah subhana wa ta'ala have granted him? Afterall, he will only mislead those that deserve it, so what's the "damage"? I know this sounds harsh to those who will be punished, but this sadly is reality.

Thats what i was asking. why would Allah lead people astray?? He could guide everyone, besides isn't it the shaitans job to lead people out der?? :X

Because Allah subhana wa ta'ala is the most just, and it wouldn't be just to treat the bad equal to the good. The blind are not equal to the seeing, the dead are not equal to living, those are some comparisons made in the Qur'an. It wouldn't be fair towards the faithful even even the wicked would be guided, they simply don't deserve it. Opposition is a crucial part of duality.

Yes but the engineer isnt the all seeing all hearing all controlling all creating now is he? He didn't even create the operator! Unless he had a 9mm up to his head, he had NO control of him. Just the stuff he created.

Yes in that the analogy is flawed, that is why I said prior to telling teh story that I don't like analogies, however even though it is flawed in that are, the message stays intact. The message of it being that free will comes bundled with responsibility. And that if we mess up with our free will, it's our fault, and not our creators fault. The argument here isn't that we were created without a choice. The argument here is that we were created with choice despite that our creator knew some of us would end up making the wrong choice! This is very twisted. If predestination doesn't negate free will, it shouldn't negate responsibility either. Just because God knew in advance, doesn't mean it isn't our choice and our responsibility. This is in fact the other side of the free-will-coin. Free will comes hand in hand with responsibility, and trying to push responsibility to our creator, is in a way rejecting free will, not denying it. The argument is not saying "I don't have it", but rather saying: "I don't want it".

No, not exactly. The way you say it, "he controlled us" sounds as if we had no choice in the first place. It'd be more precise to say: he allowed us to choose, Under his control.
He can control our decisions, but he chooses not to, and give us free will instead. It's not a matter of being incapable of controling us, it's a result of Allah subhana wa ta'ala his decisions.

Can't be sure bout that

I don't see why not. It makes perfect sense. Let me run it down one last time just to be sure.
1. Allah choses to create us with free will.
2. We use that free will to make our own choices.
3. Allah enables us to do what we choice, in consistency with his prior decision to give us free will.
So when you say you can't be sure, you mean you can't be sure this is what Islam claims, or you mean you can't be sure if Islam is right on this? If it's the later, then I don't get your question.

I didn't say its rehappening. I said he already knows whats gonna happen. after all he created this life and what happens in it. What you think he is keeping it to surprise himself?

Please refrain from making it into a mockery. Anyway, like I already said Allah subhana wa ta'ala has no need for it. And I already answered this question in my first post. There a difference in knowing what will happen, and knowing what did happen.

A painter paints to feel better bout his skills or something. Or to get caash. but Allah can get whatever he wants whenever he wants. HE is the one that gives it to you! Besides do you think Allah created us in order to be able to blush when we worship him??

You don't have to tell me that, I already said myself that this analogy is flawed because of that. You're just repeating to me in an argument what I already said, please pay more attention. :rollseyes:

Yah but when ur clueless and have many questions without answers you can't believe in islam 100%, not even 80%! :upset:

I don't see how these questions can interfere with faith. It is not as if they are pointing out to any inconsistency. The only they show is that we don't know everything. there isn't a single indication in this last question that Islam would be false. this last question is not a matter of faith but rather a matter of curiosity.

Besides if islam has all the answers why would they be unable to be answered?

Islam does have an answer to every question, in fact you even mentioned the answer while you were asking it! The problem however is that you aren't satisfied with the answer. So it's not a case of Islam not answering your question, it's a case of you not being happy with your answer. No offense.

Instead one little questions causes more thinking and more questions which all leads to the same thing....more doubt

That is because Shaytain feed on these matters to spread confusion. I already answered your questions, if you still have doubt, the doubts come from another place, and not from these questions as they should be resolved by now.

And another thing. what if its wrong? How can we except something like this and it could be completely wrong or untrue?? Thats why im asking these. Incase im wrong. Misleaded. Clueless. Faithless. or all those together.

How can you except it? I would reverse it, how can you not accept it? Not a single person on earth has guarantees that his/her views are right/wrong. everybody has his/her own reasons why they follow faith X or faith Y. For me personally, I simply try to follow what I think makes most sense. And thats why I believe in Islam, because to me, that view makes most sense at all. Of course their are questions that I can't answer, like why does Allah want us to worship us. But that doesn't indicate the view is wrong. In fact in a way it even makes sense within that view that we can't answer everything. And Similar questions are left unanswered in every alternative view. So changing views won't solve your problem. Like I said, all you can do is accept that some things are simply beyond our knowledge. And that has nothing to do with silencing questions or covering up flaws. Because like I said these questions are universal to every viewpoint. Perhaps in the atheist or agnostic viewpoint you'll have to tweak the question a bit, but trust me, even there it can't be answered. This is something that is simply beyond the scope of any viewpoint. Questioning things leads to knowledge, since after questioning you ponder and conclude. However questioning in extremity will obstruct knowledge, cause every conclusion you'll make will be yet again questioned. To keep things practical and sane, we're forced to at some point make a choice. Like I said, it all starts with a choice. And you build up from there. things starting to make sense yet?

That leads me to another question...WHO misguided shaitan???
Nobody had control over him...eeexcept..ahem..ahem...coughallahcough.

shaytain thought he knew better and disagreed with Allah subhana wa ta'ala.
Shaytain was misguided by his own vanity. He trusted his own intelligence more than he trusted Allah subhana wa ta'ala. Vanity is a form of shirk, because you place yourself as partner of Allah. You seem to suggest that poeple (or in this case djinns) can only make mistakes when someone misguides them. Like I said it all starts with a choice.

I hope this answers your question, may Allah subhana wa t'ala guide you to the right path, and may he protect you from the confusion that Shaytan likes to spread in our minds.