Will atheist ever get the proof of God's existence?

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And these clear signs being?

Quran 2:164

Behold! In the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the Night and the Day; in the sailing of the ships through the Ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which Allah sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds and the clouds which they trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth, (here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise.
 
Quran 2:164

Behold! In the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the Night and the Day; in the sailing of the ships through the Ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which Allah sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds and the clouds which they trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth, (here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise.

Clear sign of what?
 
Clear sign of what?

Is creation itself not a clear enough sign for you??

(Surat al-Mulk: 3-4) He Who created the seven heavens in layers. You will not find any flaw in the creation of the All-Merciful. Look again-do you see any gaps? Then look again and again. Your sight will return to you dazzled and exhausted!

The human body for example, Inside us is an incredibly complicated and comprehensively co-ordinated network that operates without stopping at all. The purpose is the continuance of living. This co-ordination is particularly visible in the locomotive system of the body, because, for even the smallest movement, skeletal system, muscles and nervous system must work in perfect collaboration.

Quran 2:242
Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to you: in order that ye may understand.
 
You are wrong, the human body is plenty flawed. Again, clear sign of what exactly? You'd be surprised evolution explains quite a bit. We know very well how many things happen and we certainly do not need a god. Anyways, this thread is pointless. For an atheist, whether god exists or not is of no concern. What we want to know is what evidence is there that YOUR religion is right?
 
they r the hardest ppl to convert. since they dont believe in a god. thats wat i heard heres a interview with a guy who used to be atheist n now became a muslim ... listen to his story maybe u ll see the light.. i just ask just give it a shot before its too late... peace

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2z73ohM_Rjw&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=a5P6iwgbey4&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=21Ak-mNpF3Q&feature=related
n plenty of other videos check out there stories .. just search.
n go read the quran . n see how perfect it is ... a prefect god must have a prefect book. n one of the challenges in the quran allah tells them who say this book isnt from allah is try to produce something like it. or a a fly n put a soul in it.. believe me living in arrogance wont take u anymore. .i just ask for u to think about it.. look at how everything is created when u see a building do u say oh it was there or u be like deep inside someone for sure have built it. so when u see the sun the moon if u dont wanna look at that ... look at your self .. dont u honestly believe someone created u. life is short... n u never know when ur gonna die.. may allah guide me n u too.
 
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You are wrong, the human body is plenty flawed. Again, clear sign of what exactly? You'd be surprised evolution explains quite a bit. We know very well how many things happen and we certainly do not need a god. Anyways, this thread is pointless. For an atheist, whether god exists or not is of no concern. What we want to know is what evidence is there that YOUR religion is right?

God Almighty created our body perfect and without flaws, how you treat your body is whats flawed. Though God will do what he wills to test a person. He may create the body in which ever form he wants to test a person will. Obviously the body doesn't last forever and is only a garment for our everlasting body which is our soul.

We know very well how many things happen and we certainly do not need a god. Anyways, this thread is pointless. For an atheist, whether god exists or not is of no concern.

There will come a day when you will no other helper then Allah. When that day comes remember your quote above and be assured that day will come without a doubt.

May Allah guide you!
 
they r the hardest ppl to convert. since they dont believe in a god. thats wat i heard heres a interview with a guy who used to be atheist n now became a muslim ... listen to his story maybe u ll see the light.. i just ask just give it a shot before its too late... peace


n plenty of other videos check out there stories .. just search.
n go read the quran . n see how perfect it is ... a prefect god must have a prefect book. n one of the challenges in the quran allah tells them who say this book isnt from allah is try to produce something like it. or a a fly n put a soul in it.. believe me living in arrogance wont take u anymore. .i just ask for u to think about it.. look at how everything is created when u see a building do u say oh it was there or u be like deep inside someone for sure have built it. so when u see the sun the moon if u dont wanna look at that ... look at your self .. dont u honestly believe someone created u. life is short... n u never know when ur gonna die.. may allah guide me n u too.

I watched the entire video. It was about a professor (I liked him) who accepted islam and that's really it. Why did he do it? What evidence made him do it? It was lacking that. He liked the literary style or something, I don't know exactly what questions he was seeking for. The quran being a perfect book? It's your opinion and of course you are going to be biased. Argument from design is not convincing.

God Almighty created our body perfect and without flaws, how you treat your body is whats flawed. Though God will do what he wills to test a person. He may create the body in which ever form he wants to test a person will. Obviously the body doesn't last forever and is only a garment for our everlasting body which is our soul.



There will come a day when you will no other helper then Allah. When that day comes remember your quote above and be assured that day will come without a doubt.

May Allah guide you!

Body hair, back pain, appendix (I think) are just from top of my head the imperfections (what's your definition of perfect?). The last part didn't make sense.
 
Body hair, back pain, appendix (I think) are just from top of my head the imperfections (what's your definition of perfect?). The last part didn't make sense.

Body hair is not an imperfection, Actually Hair has alot of necessary functions. Back Pain comes through the works of life and there are many pains we will go through until the end of life. Old age is one of them and its a fact that the body will get old and will age though like I said this body is only a garment for our inner body (Our Soul).

There will come a day when you will HAVE no other helper then Allah. When that day comes remember your quote above and be assured that day will come without a doubt.

May Allah guide you!
 
I watched the entire video. It was about a professor (I liked him) who accepted islam and that's really it. Why did he do it? What evidence made him do it? It was lacking that. He liked the literary style or something, I don't know exactly what questions he was seeking for. The quran being a perfect book? It's your opinion and of course you are going to be biased. Argument from design is not convincing.

since u dont believe its prefect go n read it... just try to find one mistake but before u do ... keep an open mind about it.
so thats ur answer .... its just simply a design .. would u explain y its not convincing to u. wat else do u need to open ur eyes.. not to be rude but i did my best n its on u. take care

by the way i posted the short version.
my bad

http://youtube.com/watch?v=21Ak-mNpF3Q&feature=related
it has 17 parts to it i believe...
 
If my first post as the opening thread has any meaning, it stated
"Based on direct empirical data, no human can prove God Existence but applying the same rule atheist also can not prove the inexistency of God either".

This is true. But it doesn't make belief and lack of belief equally rational.

To see this, notice that you can say the same for pretty much any other nonprovable claim. You can not prove that there are no invisible space aliens sitting on your shoulder. That isn't any reason to believe that there are.
 
The fact that there is no evidence YET.. What evidence is there? The REASON I don't believe in a god is the SAME reason I don't believe in Santa and the like. It's not my job to disprove your claim. If you say that something perfect, magic is out there, it's up to you to provide evidence. Remember, I also can not disprove Santa. You said so yourself that you can't provide evidence. That answers the thread's question. The proof we want is the evidence you say can't be provided.

002.256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

Al-Qur'an, 002.256 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])

Our job is to convey the message even just one verse. I dare not breaking the rules of no compulsion in religion.

Speaking about the rules, there are sets of rules in any given systems.
In a game of basket ball there are rules. Playing golf also have some rules.

The empiral evidence you're asking is like insisting to play basket ball with the rules of playing golf. You could do it if you want to, but you may try to avoid convincing others it's logical.

if the rule of evidence applicable to other systems (crime, science etc) why not to God?

The rule to obtain any evidences is by collecting finite or measurable information. How do you deal with infinite? True, there is a process called renormalisation to cancel out infinite from each other in the equation. But like Greg Cantor said it's only applicable to the Transfinite and won't work to Deo he called the absolute infinite.

One of the best infinite-mathematician said it can not be done and you insist the rule of evidence is applicable to the absolute infinite by keep asking where's the evidence.

Either you have more knowledge than Greg Cantor by saying it can be done or what you are really trying to say: "Let's play basket ball using 9-iron."
You could do it.... Some may say it's the smart way to play others may utter different words.

empirical evidence is NOT the tool to approach God but believe is.

Notice translated Al-Qur'an uses the word 'believe'

002.006 As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.

Al-Qur'an, 002.006 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])


One last thing, The algorithm you are using

if God Exists then
there is evidence some place or
else
God does not exist
endif

if NoEvidence( cause) then ABSOLUTELY ThereIsNoGod (effect).

Notice you are using causality law (cause-effect). meaning the cause first followed by the effect in this order. Do you think this classical law is absolute? well, in Quantum Mechanics the effect sometimes comes first followed by the cause, sometimes both occur at the same time or the way we accustom to, cause followed by effect... weird, isn't it?

Do you think relying on causality law alone is enough arsenal to challenge the existency of God?

what I am saying is: I would be careful in the way my logic works. If you have some doubts about the existency of God then to be at par is it not also logical to place some doubt in the way our inner-thought works? Is it really our logic infallible?
 
Find out why Tornado,siclone,hurricane,twister and etc....why the such huge wind can destroyed New Orlean,and lotsa places....! if there no God....why should have lotsa mystical thing happens...and etc? beyond of our thinking!

You are correct that without a God to explain everything for you, you are forced to admit you don't know all the answers. I don't know all the answers about everything and I'm comfortable with that. I feel no need to invent a God to fill the gaps.
 
To see this, notice that you can say the same for pretty much any other nonprovable claim. You can not prove that there are no invisible space aliens sitting on your shoulder. That isn't any reason to believe that there are.

Good point, but there is a lot more evidence for God's existence than there is for other unprovable claims.
 
Suffiyan007 said:
Find out why Tornado,siclone,hurricane,twister and etc....why the such huge wind can destroyed New Orlean,and lotsa places....! if there no God....why should have lotsa mystical thing happens...and etc? beyond of our thinking!
None of anything listed above is at all 'mystical' or unexplainable. We have satisfactory natural explanations for them all.

coddles76 said:
God Almighty created our body perfect and without flaws, how you treat your body is whats flawed.
Lol, what?

So if our body is without flaw, why do people get Parkinson's disease? Why do people get Alzheimer's Disease? Why are people born with Stickler's Syndrome? What about Sickle-cell disease? How on earth can you consider our body so perfect when people can inherent so many disorders and pick up diseases through no fault of their own?
 
None of anything listed above is at all 'mystical' or unexplainable. We have satisfactory natural explanations for them all.

Greetings Skavau
' Natural' denotes existing in conformity of some defined laws, when a special abstraction or aberration happens from what we define as 'natural' we recognize it as a deviance.. Does it not strike you at all that there is a pattern here that favors life, sentience, and to top it all aesthetics?
Why does 'natural' go for instance beyond the seed to a flowering plant of different colors to please the senses?

All atheists, have failed to define 'why natural?' if they took care of the how, which you'll forgive me, they don't often do with dexterity but I digress..

So if our body is without flaw, why do people get Parkinson's disease? Why do people get Alzheimer's Disease? Why are people born with Stickler's Syndrome? What about Sickle-cell disease? How on earth can you consider our body so perfect when people can inherent so many disorders and pick up diseases through no fault of their own?

Any disorder in any 'body' should really channelize your attention to what goes right all the time for you and millions of others that you take for granted and in fact you notice it as an aberrancy. The mere act of breathing, your extra ocular movements, every enzymatic and biochemical pathway in your body.. any enzyme deficiency would render someone dead depending on how high up in its perspective pathway, yet yours are working round the clock on their own volition.. somehow 'natural' through trial and error got billions of enzymes to work around the clock correctly for billions of people with the exception of 3 or 4 in 6 billion, who if anything should have you agasp at how much could potentially go wrong that goes right, yet you'd not find that anymore remarkable than you'd the orbiting planets and would prefer to deny humanity the very basics of the human condition..

What is your idea of perfection then? Where would your baseline be? it is again the human condition that so seeks contrast to impart a deeper meaning to an opposite emotion.. it is in death and disease that we are rendered more humanistic, more conditioned on the meta-index of existence.

Sometimes when I reflect deep enough, I think eternal punishment for people being so ungrateful is hardly even adequate...


peace
 
Skye Ephémérine, imo, the most important aspect of evolution is the incredibly long time over which things occurred. Have you ever folded a sheet of paper in half, then in half, again and again. You can fold only 7 or 8 times (I think) and the reason being is the power of numbers. 2 to the power of just 20 (kind of like generations) is quickly one million. If you compare 20 to say 20 million, the numbers get unfathomably huge. I would expect everything to look incredibly designed and incredibly complex over such a long time and the same can be said about the cosmos. When I look at something beautiful, I tend to appreciate time than I guess I do a god.
 
None of anything listed above is at all 'mystical' or unexplainable. We have satisfactory natural explanations for them all.


Lol, what?

So if our body is without flaw, why do people get Parkinson's disease? Why do people get Alzheimer's Disease? Why are people born with Stickler's Syndrome? What about Sickle-cell disease? How on earth can you consider our body so perfect when people can inherent so many disorders and pick up diseases through no fault of their own?

Please try to understand this point..........
I'm not talking about the diseases that the body can establish, This is only for a trial and test for the person. I'm talking about the actual creation of the body. Please try to absorb this with an open mind, its the creation of the perfectly created bodily functions in which I refer to.
Try to create anything of the like and I'm sure you or nobody in this world can. That is whats perfect.
I hope you understand now.
 
Please try to understand this point..........
I'm not talking about the diseases that the body can establish, This is only for a trial and test for the person. I'm talking about the actual creation of the body. Please try to absorb this with an open mind, its the creation of the perfectly created bodily functions in which I refer to.
Try to create anything of the like and I'm sure you or nobody in this world can. That is whats perfect.
I hope you understand now.
Even if we assume the bodily functions of a human being are perfect, why does this necessitate the existence of a creator/designer? God is more 'perfect' than the bodily functions of the human, so by using your logic, who created/designed God?
 
Even if we assume the bodily functions of a human being are perfect, why does this necessitate the existence of a creator/designer? God is more 'perfect' than the bodily functions of the human, so by using your logic, who created/designed God?

Thankyou Aurora for your comments.....
Your answer is in your question. God is perfect so hence would only create things proportiate to that.
Your mind has been created to only latch onto what has been taught to us from our creator. He has informed us of his creation, only what he wants us know, from this life and in the hereafter. Its your choice whether you want to believe in that or not.

who created/designed God?
If you allow your minds imagination to get into the cycle you it would be endless. If you do find an answer to the question you then have the question of who created that creation and then who created that creation so on and so forth. This cycle is only created by the Shaytaan (Devil) who loves to whisper doubts in your mind.
 

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