Female honey bee? Arabic word?

[kay106]

It seems we haven't reached a conclusion..

the bees are female, i started this thread and this is the conclusion i have drawn, with clear evidence. not from my vain desires. hope all you guys do the same.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

the bees are female, i started this thread and this is the conclusion i have drawn, with clear evidence. not from my vain desires. hope all you guys do the same.

This is the conclusion you have drawn...

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Multiple bellies:

The honeybee's got two stomachs, the verse uses plural even though it should be dual.
The verse says:
There cometh forth from their bellies a drink divers of hues
So if we are to consider belly = stomach, only one stomach fits in the verse, the honey-making-and-storing stomach, so in fact singular should be used, as honey comes from one stomach only.
That is of course if belly even equals stomach, it does in English, it doesn't in certain other languages, so my question is, can belly be used as a synonym for stomach in Arabic?

That's not splitting hair.

 

[kay106]

Multiple bellies:

The honeybee's got two stomachs, the verse uses plural even though it should be dual.
The verse says:
There cometh forth from their bellies a drink divers of hues
So if we are to consider belly = stomach, only one stomach fits in the verse, the honey-making-and-storing stomach, so in fact singular should be used, as honey comes from one stomach only.
That is of course if belly even equals stomach, it does in English, it doesn't in certain other languages, so my question is, can belly be used as a synonym for stomach in Arabic?

That's not splitting hair.

So are you agreeing that the bees are female, but it is the belly issue you are having trouble with?

 

[Whatsthepoint]

So are you agreeing that the bees are female, but it is the belly issue you are having trouble with?

It's the belly issue that makes me believe the bees are plural, with no gender attached, that's what Faye has been saying all along.

 

[kay106]

Of course ukhty.. I hate to be this way with a Muslim (believe me I am never that way with a Muslim).. I may have been displacing anger I had toward other members on you and I am sorry
I like to adhere to this verse

أَشِدَّاء عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاء بَيْنَهُمْ ​

48:29----------strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other.----------

butuniha, is this dual or plural?

 

[kay106]

It's the belly issue that makes me believe the bees are plural, with no gender attached, that's what Faye has been saying all along.

i know what she has been saying.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

butuniha, is this dual or plural?

Its plural. It means her/their bellies.

 

[kay106]

Its plural. It means her/their bellies.

how do you know?

 

[Whatsthepoint]

how do you know?

Because both Faye and Skye agreed upon it, they didn't agree whether bootooniha translates to her or their bellies, but its bellies nevertheless.

 

[جوري]

bootinha is jama3 mo'anath as stated above plural feminine.. perhaps you've missed it?.. I had unsubscribed to this topic, only to find it again lol

cheers

 

[Whatsthepoint]

bootinha is jama3 mo'anath as stated above plural feminine.. perhaps you've missed it?.. I had unsubscribed to this topic, only to find it again lol

cheers

What do you mean plural feminine?
Faye said that batn (belly) is masculine. Do nouns change gender depending on the number?

 

[جوري]

Not on the number but the conjugation bootoniha is feminine, botonihim mascuiline, it is all up there, I am not going to turn this into another 11 pages of reiteration..
if interested in learning Arabic why not enroll in a class? or start by the link I posted on previous page..

peace

 

[FatimaAsSideqah]

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Please be careful, don't waste the pages. Its seem continues to debate without knowledge. Please ask the scholars and it is only way to getting the answers.

 

[جوري]

'whatisthepoint' is somewhat interested in psychology and likes to use this method called 'trap questions' where the questioner is usually presumptuous and repetitive, in the process he gets 'contradictory answers' a general interplay on each individual's level of education and in using the rhetorical device trips people, so that at some point they will answer the question incorrectly, and he can in the practice affirm his own psychology which is to maintain a certain level of cognitive conservatism when not open for things contradictory from his own beliefs!
An example and you may have seen this at subpar institutions where they ask true or false q's
Do you have an abusive father?
a series of other questions
Has your father ever abused you?
a series of other questions
Do you feel hurt when your father punishes you?

You are going to answer one of those questions in a way that contradicts the other and they pounce on that....

Questions of this nature are inappropriate, aren't productive, and wasteful of everyone's time, unfortunately not everyone is aware of it, or the purpose behind.. it certainly works for places such as guantanamo, where they accuse people of terrorism and then give out a series of questions to later affirm the 'questioner/accuser's beliefs' rather than seek some sort of truth and hurridly hand it to the media for mass brain washing!...

Do you personally see why I don't enjoy engaging in such debates? It isn't a matter of having the correct answer, it is that the questioner has no interest in the correct answer!

 

[kay106]

bootinha is jama3 mo'anath as stated above plural feminine.. perhaps you've missed it?.. I had unsubscribed to this topic, only to find it again lol

cheers

So butuniha means their [female] bellies, is that what you are saying?

 

[جوري]

So butuniha means their [female] bellies, is that what you are saying?

bootoniha is jama3 mo'anath = feminine plural!

 

[Faye]

on feminine and masculine in Arabic grammar

المذكر والمؤنث



الاسم: مذكّر أو مؤنث. مثال المذكر: [رجل] و[كتاب].

فأما الأول: [رجل]، فمذكر حقيقي، لأن له مؤنثاً من جنسه. وأمّا الثاني: [كتاب]، فمذكر غير حقيقي، إذ ليس له مؤنث من جنسه، وإنما اصطلح أبناء اللغة على اعتباره مذكراً.

ومثال المؤنث: [امرأة] و[دار].

فأمّا الأول: [امرأة] فمؤنث حقيقي، لأن له مذكراً من جنسه. وأمّا الثاني: [دار] فمؤنث غير حقيقي، إذ ليس له مذكر من جنسه، وإنما اصطلح أبناء اللغة على اعتباره مؤنثاً.

ملاحظات عظيمة القيمة:

1- يغلب على الاسم المؤنث أن تلحق آخره: ألفٌ مقصورة مثل: [سلمى]، أو ألفٌ ممدودة مثل [حسناء]، أو تاء مربوطة مثل: [خديجة].

2- في اللغة أسماءٌ، سُمِع عن العرب تذكيرها وتأنيثها، منها: [السبيل- الحيّة - العنق - الطريق...]، ولذلك تقول: هذا أو هذه سبيل، وهذا أو هذه حيّة، وهذا أو هذه عنق، وهذا أو هذه طريق،...

3- للإناث حالات مقصورة عليهنّ، لا يشاركهن فيها الذكور، كالحَيْض والإتْآم(1) والطلاق... وأوصافُهنّ في هذه الحالات لا تلحقها التاء، فلا يقال مثلاً: هذه امرأة حائضة أو مُتْئِمة أو طالقة... بل يقال: امرأة حائِض أو مُتْئِم أو طالق(2)...

4- في العربية صفات استعملتها العرب للمذكر والمؤنث بلفظ واحد، مثل: صبور، حنون، جريح، قتيل... فقالوا: رجل صبور وامرأة صبور- ورجل جريح وامرأة جريح...

وقد بحث النحاة واللغويون في هذا قديماً، وذكروا أوزانه، ومواضع استعماله، وما شذ منه وما استثني... حتى إذا كان العصر الحديث، وقف مجمع اللغة العربية بالقاهرة عند هذه المسألة وبحث فيها، ثم خلص من ذلك إلى أن أجاز لحاقَ تاء التأنيث، كلَّ مؤنّث من الصفات. وبناء على ذلك يجوز أن يقال اليوم: رجل صبور وامرأة صبورة، ورجل جريح وامرأة جريحة، ورجل معطار وامرأة معطارة، ورجل معطير وامرأة معطيرة(3) ...


فمَن شاء أن يسلك اليوم هذا السبيل السهل فلا لوم عليه، ولا يعاب قوله. ومن شاء أن يأخذ بالطريقة القديمة، وهي الفصيحة​

http://www.reefnet.gov.sy/education/kafaf/index.html

Translation:

Masculine and Feminine

Noun: is either masculine or feminine. Example of masculine nouns: a man (rajolun) and a book (kitaabun).

The first (rajolun) is a real masculine noun, because a feminine for its type exists. As for the second (kitaabun), it is not a real masculine noun, as no feminine for its type exist. But grammarians define it as masculine.

Example of feminine nouns: a woman (imra2atun) and a house (daarun).

The first (imra2atun) is a real feminine noun, because a masculine for its type exists. As for the second (daarun), it is not a real feminine noun, as no masculine for its type exist. But grammarians define it as feminine.

Important Points:
1. Most feminine nouns have alif maqsoorah at the end (written as a ya, pronounced as alif) like Salma, or alif mamdoodah at the end (alif followed by hamzah and preceded by a fathah) like Hasanaa2, or ta2 marbooTah at the end like Khadijah.
2. There are some nouns which are used by the Arab as both masculine and feminine. Examples are Sabeel (path), Hayyah (snake), 3onoq (neck) and Tareeq (road). Thus both masculine and feminine forms maybe used with them.
3. There are some conditions found only in females, which males do not share with them, like HayZ (menstruation), It2aam (widowhood) and Talaaq (divorce), and adjectives made from these words do not have a ta2 at their end. So you do not say, This is a Ha2iZah (menstruating) or Mo3timah (widowed) or Taaliqah (divorced) woman, but you say This is a Ha2iz (menstruating), or Mo3tim (widowed) or Taaliq (divorced) woman.
4. There are those adjectives which the Arabs use to refer to both females and males, without any change. Examples Saboorun (patient), Hanoonun (loving, affectionate in a motherly manner), Jareehun (injured), Qateelun (dead). So they say a Hanoonun (loving) man and a Hanoonun woman, and an injured (jareehun) man and a jareehun woman.

The last para says that grammarians have debated the matter and concluded that in present day language, it is all right to put a ta2 modawwarah at the end of any feminine adjective. So whoever wishes to use this easy way, may do so and his language will not be considered incorrect, and whoever wishes to keep to the old style may do so, and the old style is more correct.

The last para I did not translate at all literally, just gave the basic meaning.

 

[جوري]

The last para I did not translate at all literally, just gave the basic meaning.

You should actually start a section here if you have the time to teach folks basic Arabic grammar and rules and in the process I think would cement what you also know, sometimes dear brs and srs here approach me by PM for translation of some passages which might be beneficial to one but not all, I really think a section as such would be of great benefit.. I unfortunately don't have the time to expend that I would like to in order to have ikhlas in teaching because of my other obligations.. I seem to lose patience fast with anything that requires more of me than what I personally think it is worth..

So every day you can have a section of jama3 aljam3, or jama3 mo;anath, or things that can be used both in masc and fem, different verbs, affiriming a verb by using a verb.. I don't think most people appreciate how rich a language Arabic is or how difficult its basic grammar...

And may Allah reward you for your efforts..

p.s
pls know it is just a suggestion.. I myself hate being trapped into projects where folks oblige me for a prolonged period.. so it is only if you are interested..

 

[kay106]

bootoniha is jama3 mo'anath = feminine plural!

Sorry to bug you sis, but i need to get to the bottom of this.

So butooniha, does this mean her bellies, or their [female] bellies?