Muslims using Western Psychology and Mental Illness: Permissible or lies?

format_quote Originally Posted by Tariqa

!

Did it occur to you that its more than medicine its a lifstyle... a person who lives illy will get ill.. those medications are ills to a healthy person..

What the hell are you talking about? Sob7an Allah.. do you just have to get your quota of crap in? This particular example I used specifically strikes children.. you were never struck by disease?

It has virtually everything to do with it.. The doctors do not direct you to anything natural they give you pills.. How many do you know are unhelathy by eating good and living good?? How many do you know are constanly sick and go to the doctors and never get cured only to have to make another visit next month??

Doctors deal with pathology, and preventive medicine which is highly dependent on the field.. do you expect a pathologist or an anesthesiologist or a radiologist to lecture you on your obesity in fact they stand to suffer more if you are in bad shape (litigation) . No one can spoon feed you compliance!.. hardly seems fair to blame them for your poor life style choices.. and shows you how much you know of medicine.. treatment is almost never prescribed on a first visit unless there is a serious reason to, a Judgment call which I wouldn't expect you to understand!

yes your right they have poor hygine even thought they do everything the doctors tell them to do... they brush regualr and make regual checkups and still get cavities.. why?? because the doctors lifestyle and recommedations are 91% most likely not true.. they keep getting cavities not because they ar not doing what the doctors say but most likely because the doctors advice is giving them poor hygine.

Forgive me but at this stage I know for a fact you are full of ****.. I am tired of arguing against your ignorance and nonsense.. you are so undereducated I hope to God you are not in contact with people to whom you can bring harm with your linear thought process!

take a look at the dentist.. 91% of the people that go to dentist and follow orders still end up with cavities.. that is proof enough that majoirty of the people that go for help gets not that exactly...

:rolleyes:

I know there are at least five good reasons to close this thread.

But it's too entertaining.

format_quote Originally Posted by Tariqa

why do docotors not tell the patients to start eating better or the medicine will make it worst.. they will not get health by taking drugs..

Look, I don't know what the doctors are like round your end, but the few times I've been physically ill enough to be prescribed drugs, the doctor (or pharmacist when applicable) has told me:

1 - the particular drug, its effects, and the dosage

2 - which foods to eat or avoid

3 - how much rest I need

4 - what I can do to avoid becoming ill in the future

I don't know if I'm lucky, but somehow, despite the interference of what you imply is a sham profession, I am still alive over a decade later!

close thread close thread..




I mean, no offense but really,,,

format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin

I know there are at least five good reasons to close this thread.

But it's too entertaining.


Look, I don't know what the doctors are like round your end, but the few times I've been physically ill enough to be prescribed drugs, the doctor (or pharmacist when applicable) has told me:

1 - the particular drug, its effects, and the dosage

2 - which foods to eat or avoid

3 - how much rest I need

4 - what I can do to avoid becoming ill in the future

I don't know if I'm lucky, but somehow, despite the interference of what you imply is a sham profession, I am still alive over a decade later!

Yeh please DONT close this thread it is really funny. Yeh it isn't just doctors there is a campaign thing (posters, t.v. adverts etc) in the Uk to make poeple understand that medicine doesn't cure cold or flu. People are urged to exercise and all that business.

took me a good two seconds to google this, grabbed the first on the list too..

Life expectancy to soar


There is "no sign" of a ceiling on life expectancy

People are set to live increasingly long lives, and reaching 100 will soon be "commonplace", say experts.
They say that although there is no prospect of immortality, the trend for living increasingly long lives looks set to continue.

Centenarians - 100-year-olds - will become unexceptional within the lifetimes of people alive today, according to Jim Oeppen, from Cambridge University, UK, and Dr James Vaupel, from the Max Plank Institute for Demography in Rostock, Germany.

They said there was no sign there was a natural limit, as some experts had predicted.

Each time one has been suggested, it has been exceeded within five years.

Increased life expectancy

The researchers' suggestion that life expectancies could rise is based on patterns seen since 1840.



This is far from eternity: modest annual increments in life expectancy will never lead to immortality

Researchers Jim Oeppen and Dr James Vaupel
Since then, the highest average life expectancy has improved by a quarter of a year every year.

If that trend continues, the researchers say people in the country with the highest life expectancy would live to an average age of 100 in about six decades.

The researchers wrote in the journal Science: "This is far from eternity: modest annual increments in life expectancy will never lead to immortality.

"It is striking, however, that centenarians may become commonplace within the lifetimes of people living today."

Average lifespan around the world is around double what it was 200 years ago. It is now around 65 for men and 70 for women.

Japanese women are currently the likeliest to live long lives, on average reaching 84.6 years of age.

Japanese men are the second longest male survivors, reaching an average age of 77.6 years old.

'No ceiling'

The British rank well down the list. Men come in at 14th in the world table, living to an average age of 75 while women are in 18th place, living on average to 79.9.

In France, there is a big difference between men and women's life expectancy.

Men came 16th in the world table, with an average lifespan of 74.9, with French women in fourth place with a life expectancy of 82.4 years.


British women have a life expectancy of 79.9

Mr Oeppen, senior research associate at the Cambridge Group for the History of Population and Social Structure, said: "One of the assumptions is that life expectancy will rise a bit and then reach a ceiling it cannot go through.

"But people have been assuming that since the 1920s and it hasn't proved to be the case.

"If we were close to the ceiling we might expect the survival of Japanese women now to be improving at a slower rate. But the improvement in Japan is among the fastest in the world."

He added: "I think there is a ceiling, but we don't know where it is. We haven't got there yet."

Mr Oeppen and Dr Vaupel said their predictions meant even the highest forecast for numbers of elderly people in the future could be too low, affecting decisions over pensions, health care, and other social needs.

Political reaction

Frank Field, Labour MP for Birkenhead and chairman of the all-party committee on pensions, welcomed the report.

He called for an independent body to be set up to examine the need for an increase in the retirement age.

He said: "If you look at life expectancy in 1948, when the state pension was introduced, and take that as a reasonable length of time to receive a pension, you would have a retirement age of 74 today."


I wonder why people are living longer today than they did 200 yrs ago? Must be magic!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1977733.stm

format_quote Originally Posted by Tariqa

what you do not understand is that people in anceint times used to live to thousands of years old..

The prophet and his companion lived to be thousands, sob7an Allah, that is news to me, thanks for the heads up..

obesity is a health problem.. it is the #1 killer of america...it kills more than 65% of the nation because more than 60% of the nation or more is obese..

aha
Why do the eating habits of other folks whether endocrine in origin or pure gluttony concern you so? and again, how are doctors or modern science contributing to it? Perhaps you should direct your grievances to the folks at KFC, Dunkin Donuts, and frito lays?
you are too funny.. I wonder how long you can keep this up, but it seems you don't read or unable to comprehend what is written?

This is because of the unhealthy liofestyle many have been living and with the people depending on the doctors who "support their unhelathy lifestyles" by giving them quick drugs and such, the people will not learn and continue to live these unhelathy lifestyles...which is clearly haram in islam..

again, I fail to see how doctors are crusading for obesity?.. perhaps you can connect the dots for me?..

Allah prohibits one to assist in sin.. Are these docotors not helping the masses continue to live these unhealthy lifestyles.. with quick fixes that do not cure....only delay the problems.??

I really think you should give it up.. I would be embarrassed by now if I were you -- unless you are unwell in the head, which I am really starting to believe is the case..
thanks for the many pages of pure hilarity

format_quote Originally Posted by Tariqa

Its true.. prophets like adam and noah, musa(a) they all lived for hundreds of years or more.. they were healthier then we are today and they had lees modern advancements..

Did the prophet Mohammed or anyone from the prophet Mohammed's (SAW) time live to hundreds and thousands? yes or no? I think the question is fairly simple?

The doctors are apart of this global scheme.. Its like this, the people come up with unhealthy foods, the doctors come up with drugs that counter the effects of these unhelathy foods... Do you not see?? They are like a team, a 1,2 punch wam bam deal.. They are like the maids that clean up after the masters flith.. they are working for this regime. they do not condemn it because they are making mass amounts of money for the treating the sicknesses of the world in the manner they do..

No I don't see it, further just provided you a report stating that we are living longer today than we have 200 years ago, thanks to the advances in modern science.. a gift indeed from Allah SWT it is to be educated and to help people, not revel in ignorance and flaunt it like a badge of honor!

again, alternitives to unhealthy lifestlye equals contribution and not refuting. See above for more..

What are you talking about? so what for more? you are as credible as a three dollar bill

We will see who will have the last laugh when the organic and natural eaters of america avoids the gambling ways and assisting ways of the unhealthy lifestlye.. It may seem like a joke to you but this way is closer to the sunnah. The prophet of ilsam did not himself use the assistence of doctors. Perhaps there is more wisdoms from the prophets then what you call modern knowledge.. I do think the sunnah shows more advancments then any modern science would ever show.. I do think the Allah and his prophets know best what is best for the creation indeed.

Not only were there doctors during the time of the prophet, but there were women doctors and surgeons as well!

Women Surgeons
Rufaidah Aslamiyyah was an expert in medicine and surgery. She used to tend to the sick and wounded in the battlefields. According to Ibn Sa'd, her tent was equipped with equipment for surgery and first aid. When Sa'd ibn Mu'adh was injured in the Battle of the Trenches, the Prophet transferred him to her tent for medical care.

http://www.crescentlife.com/thisthat...arly_islam.htm

I hope for your sake, that you'd request a ban, you are beyond help.. enroll in some classes, preferably starting with Islamic fiqh before you speak like an ignoramus on every thread.

So Tariqa.. are you saying that people rely too heavly on modern/western medicine? and that ALL modern/western medicine should stop?

more on the subject

Medicine

Throughout history nations have developed materially in all spheres of life. Advancements in science have made this possible, particularly in the field of medicine. However, unknown to many, much of modern science today has emanated from the Muslim world. Whilst Europe was (and still is) stuck in the Dark Ages, the Islaamic State , which is called the Khilaafah, was leading the world in Science and Medicine. It boasted the founding fathers of many sciences that diagnosed and treated meningitis as well as numerous other illnesses. Also the words Retina and Cataracts are derived from Arabic, as the Muslims were experts in Ophthalmology.


The Health Service of the Islaamic State

Before Islaam there were no hospitals, as we would see today, there were places for the sick to stay, but these were mainly temples cared for by priests with 'God' playing a major role in healing people. The Islaamic State was responsible for the formation of such institutes as the hospital. There were far more hospitals in the Islaamic Empire than in Europe itself. At one time, in Baghdad there were 60 hospitals while in London there was just one. The hospitals were multifunctional, they were not just used to treat the ill but there were also departments and theatres where medical students could attend lectures. Also hospitals under the Islaamic State were used as nursing homes to look after the old especially if they had no families and to look after the insane who also had no one to care for them.

All the hospitals in Islaamic lands were financed by the Bait ul-Maal, the treasury of the Khilaafah, and the services were provided free of charge to all citizens irrespective of race, colour or creed.


Characteristic features of Hospitals in the Islaamic State

The hospitals consisted of separate wards and separate nurses. Segregation between the sexes was strictly observed as this is ordered by the Sharee'ah. Also different types of diseases extremely infectious ones, in particular were allocated to different wards to avoid cross contamination etc. Pregnant women did not have the worry about foreign men walking into the labour rooms and violating their honour, unnecessary internal check-ups were not done and there was no issues of having to take your husband into the hospital with you out of the fear that a male doctor would be present or that even the female nurses and doctors could not be trusted.

The Khilaafah was the first State in history to keep detailed records of its patients and the medical care they were receiving. Keeping the records detailed, organised and concise was taken with great seriousness therefore a strong administration was a regular operation within the hospital.

Pharmacy had developed to an outstanding degree with new drugs and compounds being developed. The Khilaafah had access to numerous resources as it was ruling over two thirds of the civilised world. Chemistry became an advanced science and one of its founders was Jaabir bin Hayan. He discovered Evaporation and Crystallisation as well as being the first to classify substances into animal, vegetable and mineral.

All the hospitals in the Muslim world were models for medieval hospitals built later in Europe. They became international centres for medical studies and sciences where those seeking advanced medical knowledge from the East or West would travel to learn.
_________________
The Muslim Ummah is an unique Ummah among the whole of mankind.
Thier Land is One.Their War is One.Their Peace is One.Their Honour is One.And Thier Trust is One.
Muhammad (Peace and Blessing be Upon Him)
[Narrated by Ahmed]



Contributions to medicine by Muslim women

Throughout history and at the time or prophet Muhammad (saw) in particular, one can discover examples of great stateswomen who made vital contributions to medicine and the health service motivated by their concern for the affairs of the people. The Sharee'ah obliges the Muslims to have great concern for the Ummah in all spheres of life. Thus the pursuit of scientific knowledge in Islaamic history was considered an act of worship to Allaah (swt). The following are examples of some of these women.


Rufaidah bint Sa'd

Rufaidah bint Sa'd also known as Rufaidah Aslamiyyah was the first professional nurse in the Islaamic history. She lived at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (saw) in the 1st century AH/8th century CE. Rufaidah's father was also a great physician, from whom she learnt most of her medical knowledge from by working as his assistant. She was kind, empathetic and a capable leader and organiser. With all the clinical skills she had she trained other nurses and worked very closely with them. Also she did not limit her profound skills to public health but she also approached society as a social worker helping to solve the social problems that lead to disease. She also came to the assistance of other Muslims in need, who were poor, orphans, or handicapped. She looked after the orphans, nursed them, and taught them general skills of life.

Over time Rufaidah Aslamiyyah became an expert in medicine and surgery. When the Islaamic state was well established in Madeenah, Rufaidah devoted herself to nursing the Muslims who were sick. Over time she set up a tent outside the Prophet's mosque in Madeenah where she tended to the ill who come to for help. During the time of war she led groups of volunteer nurses who went to the battlefield and treated the casualties. At the battle of the trench ( Ghazwat al-Khandaq), Rufaidah set up her hospital tent. The Prophet Muhammad (saw) instructed that Sa'd bin Mu'aadh who had been injured in battle be moved to the tent. Rufaidah nursed him, carefully removed the arrow from his forearm and achieved haemostasis.

Other battles she participated in were the battles of Badr, U hud, Khandaq, Khaybar, and others. Rufaidah's field hospital tent became very famous during the battles and the Prophet (saw) used to pass order for all the casualties to be carried to her tent so that she may treat them with her medical expertise.


Other women experts during the time of the Prophet (saw)

The Companion ash-Shifaa bint Abdullaah al-Qurashiyah al-Adawiyah was one of the wisest women of her time. Her real name may have been Laylaa. Ash- Shifaa is a title derived from her profession as a medicine woman, it meant, healing. She was literate in an illiterate age, she was also skilled in medicine, involved in public administration, and had a strong presence in early Muslim history. She used to conduct preventative treatments against ant bites before the advent of Islaam. After Hijrah, she approached the Prophet (saw) and said, "Oh Messenger of Allaah, I used to do preventative medicine for ant bites during Jaahiliyyah, and I want to demonstrate it for you." He (saw) said, "Demonstrate it." Ash- Shifaa said: "So I demonstrated it for him, and he said '[continue to] do this, and teach it to Hafsah [a wife of the Prophet].' She apparently taught Hafsah, and many others, she also taught them to read and write, at the personal request of the Prophet

Other women experts in the time of the Prophet (saw) in medicine and surgery were Umm Muta', Umm Kabashah, Hamnah bint Jahsh, Mu'adhah, Laylaa, Umaimah, Umm Zaid, Umm 'Atiyyah, and Umm Sulaym. They were all great women with superb knowledge and skills in the arena of medicine, teaching, surgery etc. There skills and expertise helped the Ummah of Muhammad (saw) immensely throughout history.


Course of history

Over time Muslim women have contributed greatly to the field of health and medicine taking roles as, midwives, specialising on female anatomy and physiology, aiding in the development of cosmetics, perfumes, ointments and medicines for all parts of the body; constructing scientific instruments and contributing enormously to society as social workers. Unfortunately after the destruction of the Islaamic state in 1924 societies became contaminated by the non-Islaamic way of life, with kufr, shirk and bid'ah. Even the Muslim countries were eventually ruled by Taaghout rulers who aided in the people forgetting their Islaamic heritage, of all the greatness the Khilaafah contributed to the world. These situation hindered Muslim women with regards to the field of science and many of the professions and skills which they acquired.

Islaam encouraged women to apply their minds and discover what Allaah (swt) has created for the benefit of mankind on the basis of being in a continuous state of concern about the affairs of the people. However now a days our realities are different. No longer is the moral idea of segregation observed, subjects are no longer taught from an Islaamic angle and kufr concepts are indoctrinated into the people.

We as Muslim women today have great examples or role models to follow (above are only a few examples of many). It is unfortunate that the Khilaafah has become the figment of ones imagination, so much so that Muslims take the Kufr state and society as their example. Why should we do this when we ourselves are the ones that formed history and a base for the rest of the world to follow? Islaam gave women the dignity, honour and importance of being mothers, daa'ies, wives, daughters, stateswomen and even pioneers of the medicine world. Islaam had elevated the Muslim women in all arenas of life and each role has extremely important duties to full fill to please only Allaah (swt) and not anyone else.

Allaah (swt) did not instruct us to go out to kufr education institutions to become these great women by participating in free-mixing, socialising between sexes, being in a room were Allaah (swt) and the religion of Muhammad (saw) is condemned and is looked upon as minor or insignificant. And neither did he instruct us to learn subjects from the angle of the non-Muslims, to not stand up for the honour and rights of the Creator when it is attacked by the secularists and atheist, the Mushrikeen and the Faasiqs! Unfortunately there are no Islaamic environments where we can go to acquire the positions the great Muslim women of history had once done until the Khilaafah State returns and brings back the wonders it once left behind.

_________________

http://londonmetisoc.com/forum/viewt...e6c0465877e301

Instead of coming down hard on you, I should thank you, for exposing what ails some members of this umma..
May Allah grant us shifa from all that ails us, especially diseases of ignorance!

format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint

What do you mean by this?

If you want to start a separate topic on what ails Europe from an Islamic perspective we can do that on another thread --

thanks

format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint

I don't, I just don't see the point in incorporating political and theological disputes you have with Europe into an article about science and medicine.

I suppose in that case you may take your grievances to the owner of that website? I am sure you can see that I wasn't the one who wrote the article and have included the link so it will be easily accessible otherwise?



cheers