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The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

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    Talking The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

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    Found this while surfing the net tought share it here



    intelligent design - The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design



    The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    I am providing this information in hopes that some way can
    be found to use it in the battle against the atheistic,

    Darwinian concept of evolution which has destroyed so much
    of the original spiritual nature of human society, and help to
    bring the attention of the people of the world back to the
    increasingly obvious fact that God (Allah) created this
    universe and everything in it. I was many years ago a
    university professor with a background in theoretical
    physics, but am now quite old and dying of cancer. I want to
    do whatever I can before I leave this world to help humanity
    come back from the disaster of secular materialistic belief to
    a God-centered, spiritual world.

    Intelligent design is a modern variation of the very
    successful “Watchmaker Argument” for the existence of God.

    This argument essentially says if you see a watch, which is
    quite a complicated mechanism with lots of parts that must
    act perfectly in harmony then you can be sure that watch did
    not come to exist by chance, and that it must have been
    designed and created by a watchmaker. Therefore if we look
    at the incredibly complicated universe with a virtually
    infinite number of parts all acting in perfect harmony then
    we can be sure it did not come to exist by chance, and that
    it must have been designed and created by a “Universe
    Maker”, who could be no other than God.

    I can see in the current trend toward the acceptance of
    ‘intelligent design’ a movement toward a more accurate,
    objective understanding of God as our Creator. There was a
    time when science seemed to be the enemy of religious
    belief - that time is no more! Modern physics and cosmology
    (science of the origin and development of the universe) now
    provide firm objective evidence of the existence of God,
    confirm the primary attributes of God, and show how God
    created the physical existence out of ‘nothingness’. This
    knowledge comes from a critical analysis of the ‘Big Bang’
    theory, Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity, and work
    being done in quantum physics. The concepts behind this
    esoteric scientific knowledge can now be presented in such
    a way as to be understood by any person with a modern
    education and necessarily should become known by all. I
    would predict that it will not be too long until the position
    of atheism is considered to be scientifically naïve, logically
    nonsensical, and philosophically embarrassing.

    My presentation of these facts may not be in exactly the
    theological language you might prefer, but this is not the
    time to quibble over differences in form. It is the acceptance
    of the basic truth of God’s existence and His role as Creator
    of the physical universe and everything in it that is critical.

    Although intelligent design is a powerful argument against
    atheistic, Darwinian evolutionist ideas I think the one area
    of weakness in intelligent design is that it does not yet
    offer the ‘mechanism’ by which God did (or at least could)
    create the universe and fashion each of the progressive
    stages in the development of the matter of the universe,
    including biological life. Believe me, the atheistic
    evolutionists will be quick to exploit this perceived weakness.

    The following is an example of the kind of attack that
    intelligent design will face until the ‘mechanism’ by which God’s creative process takes place is offered.

    “Intelligent Design, which has some claim to being based on hard evidence, remains woefully short on the required specifics. We are told that some unknown but all-powerful entity created, or rather designed life as we know it. How? And, in what way? Don't ask. Just take their word for it.” - From an article in the Binghamton Press & Sun-Bulletin
    newspaper.


    I will have to be exceedingly brief in this explanation since many books could be written on this most important and complex subject, so I will leave it to you to have these facts checked by scientists of your acquaintance, although I have already verified the facts with other scientists to my own satisfaction.

    Allah revealed to us in the Qur’an that He created the physical universe out of nothingness, the Christian Bible presents a very similar version of the creation of the physical existence through Light, and I believe other religions also hold somewhat analogous views. This is confirmed by modern cosmologists who must now acknowledge the physical existence had a beginning from complete nothingness (no time, no space, and no matter) and at a singularity ‘Light’, a fair non-technical name for the full spectrum of photons of electromagnetic radiation, came into existence. This intense Light energy resulted in the creation of matter in the form of sub-atomic particles; of primary importance to us were the protons, neutrons, and electrons, the basic building blocks of all that now exists in the physical universe. Additionally, as a side effect of the creation of material particles was the simultaneous appearance of space and time.

    This provides our first opportunity to see Light as the interface between the non-physical (spiritual) world and the physical existence. These sub-atomic particles were sometime later transformed into atomic nuclei and the various atoms (all the different elements which still exist today). When asked why the sub-atomic particles joined together into the more complex arrangements of nuclei and atoms science answers that it is due to the ‘electromagnetic force’. This electromagnetic force is carried out through an exchange of photons (Light energy). According to Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity, which is about the ‘special’ characteristics of Light, photons of Light energy do not show any of the three necessary characteristics to be part of the physical universe. They do not have mass, they do not occupy volume of space, and they are not involved in the flow of time; therefore, Light maintains non-material characteristics, once again indicating its nature as an interface between the non-physical (spiritual) world and the physical universe.

    From a religious point of view what I would say is happening is that we see how God, acting in an orderly and lawful manner, did command the necessary sub-atomic particles to join together into certain relationships we call nuclei and atoms. The ‘electromagnetic force’ is only the name science has put on these orderly, lawful workings of God as He goes through this early stage of the Creation. It appears God does this by sending Light as the messenger to carry information regarding His commands to the various sub-atomic particles and telling them how it is His Will that they relate to each other in this new, more complex manner. Here we begin to see the ‘mechanism’ missing from the intelligent design argument by which God’s Will is carried out in the physical existence.

    We see exactly the same process taking place later in the development of the physical universe when various atoms begin relating to other atoms in another step toward greater complexity and becoming the various molecules, as in the simple example when two hydrogen atoms are joined with one oxygen atom to form a molecule of water. Once again science now knows that only certain atoms will form relationships with certain other atoms and the information as to which atoms can and should join with other atoms is determined by another exchange of photons (Light energy). Light again being the messenger from the non-physical (spiritual) existence telling the created matter how to carry out its role in the development of the physical universe. God’s Will is commanded to the atomic structures by the messengers of Light. This appears to be the ‘mechanism’ by which God transforms simple atoms into the various molecules of increasing complexity all the way up through the amino acids, and proteins to the highly complex DNA molecule.

    Importantly, we see that God does not at each new stage of material complexity (sub-atomic particles, atoms, and molecules) create anew; He commands the rearrangement of the previous simpler stage into the next more complex stage. And to move from one stage to another in increasing complexity, God each time appears to use the ‘mechanism’ of Light as a messenger to transmit His Will from the non-physical (spiritual) existence to the various material forms of the physical universe.

    At the sub-atomic, the atomic, and the molecular levels of material development science is clearly able to understand how the changes taking place are due to the information passed on through an exchange of photons of Light energy. Unfortunately, as we reach the next level of complexity, which is the progression from the molecular stage to the stage of biological life, the plants and animals, the process becomes so complex that from science we are as yet unable to fully perceive all that takes place to make that step. But through logic, extrapolation, and preliminary scientific findings we may fairly and rightly assume that it is only reasonable that the same method was used as in the earlier stages of progressive development. So we would expect that by an exchange of photons (Light energy) between the molecular entities existing at that time information was passed telling the various molecules involved to relate to each other in such a manner that a new level of material complexity is achieved, that being the simplest forms of biological life.

    When God decides the time is right to create biological life He commands that His Will be done and sends messengers of Light from the spiritual existence to the physical universe instructing the necessary molecular forms He had already created to join together in the new, more complex relationship of simple biological life. These simple biological life forms are then made up of the even simpler material forms, the atoms and molecules, from the surrounding environment which are instructed by photons of light energy from a DNA type molecule to form themselves into the new, more complex relationship of biological life. Here we see the same ‘mechanism’ being used as in all the previous stages of creation.

    Now we can begin to understand the ‘mechanism’ behind the final stages of increasing material complexity as God transforms simple biological life forms into all the more complex plants and animals we see in the world today. Beginning with the first simple forms of biological life which God had already created He now only has to send messages by Light from the non-physical (spiritual) existence to the physical world commanding that His Will be carried out and that all the necessary more complex forms of plant and animal life must come to be. These changes from one stage to another, from the simple to the more complex, require only slight alterations in the overall structure of the DNA molecule. These small structural changes in the DNA molecule are determined by information transmitted by photons (Light energy) to the atomic structures making up the DNA molecule, instructing them to move into slightly different arrangements in one or more small areas of the long and complex structure of the overall DNA molecule. The combined effect of these small structural changes to the DNA molecule are sufficient to bring about any desired modifications in the next progressively complex physical form to be expressed (all of the various plants and animals) which are required by God to facilitate the continued unfolding of the physical creation according to His Plan.
    Through this new knowledge we now have a scientifically verifiable ‘mechanism’ by which God could have created the physical universe from nothing in the beginning of time. Conveniently, information transmitted through Light energy also provides the ‘mechanism’ by which God could have directly commanded the creation of all the different increasingly complex stages and forms of matter which we find today throughout the physical universe, including all forms of biological life. It will be very difficult, I believe impossible, for the Godless evolutionists and atheistic scientists to successfully argue against this understanding of God’s Plan for Creation.

    Of course do not only take my word for this, verify what I have said with reputable scientists sympathetic to the cause of intelligent design, and use these ideas in any way and with whatever words you find most comfortable to help bring the world’s people to the knowledge that God does indeed exist, that He created the entire physical existence, and that He created us for a special place in His Grand Plan. This could be the beginning of the end for secular materialism and atheism, and the beginning of a future world fully recognizing its spiritual nature and glorifying God through peace and love.



    SOURCE
    http://www.islamic-world.net/intldes.php
    Last edited by Alphadude; 11-04-2009 at 01:33 PM. Reason: spaces added
    The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    Imagination is more important than knowledge

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    You do know that

    According to Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity, which is about the ‘special’ characteristics of Light, photons of Light energy do not show any of the three necessary characteristics to be part of the physical universe. They do not have mass, they do not occupy volume of space, and they are not involved in the flow of time; therefore, Light maintains non-material characteristics, once again indicating its nature as an interface between the non-physical (spiritual) world and the physical universe.
    is complete twaddle, don't you? If the author was a "a university professor with a background in theoretical physics" I'm the President of the United States.

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    The only accurate thing in that post is the newspaper quote in the middle.

    Why do so many Muslims think that lying is going to convince us that Islam is true?

    The constant stream of pseudo-scientific nonsense is an insult to the intelligence of Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    format_quote Originally Posted by JaffaCake View Post
    The only accurate thing in that post is the newspaper quote in the middle.

    Why do so many Muslims think that lying is going to convince us that Islam is true?

    The constant stream of pseudo-scientific nonsense is an insult to the intelligence of Muslims and non-Muslims alike.
    wow what a strong rebuttal from you, accusing the person of being a liar without actually giving any refutation or evidence to counter what the other side has said.

    also to counter your claim on Muslims, why do so many atheists think that poisoning the well and attacking the opponent and acting all superior etc makes the opponent wrong and atheism right. i mean if i could have a penny for everytime an atheist insults the intellect of his opponent i would be rich!

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    atheists ask what are the specifics to design and life, go read the Quran, Allah gives the specific details of how he created humanity, and go read the hadiths for more detail.

    as for the creation of the universe, go read the Quran as well as it gives details on this issue, as well as the hadiths.

    as for the creation of animals, the Quran doesnt give the specific details of how they were created because the info isnt that important on how they were created, the Quran was revealed for mankind, not the animal kingdom, im sure if the Quran had been revealed for animals then it would describe their creation in detail just as it did with mankind.

    but lets go to you atheists, how about you explain it to us, OH RIGHT, you cant! you only explain your evolution process but fail to answer and tell us the most important issue, HOW DID IT START, WHAT STARTED IT, atheists have jumped to the process of how life go to where it is now, yet cant tell us why or how it truly began, hey it just happened to be our lucky day. so according to the atheist view your supposed to believe that long ago by chance we dont know how, life simply emerged from this planet, again we dont know how or why, and then eventually this life went through evolution and took us to where we are now, again, we dont know how, or why, meaning it had no reason and no intent, but just happened.

    yes, now that makes lots of sense, and this is leaving out the universe as well and how it got started!

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    As much proof as you give to an Atheist, some of them still ask for proofs. You give them but they are asking again. It's like they want to see God with their eyes. But if that were to happen, the whole world would be Muslim anyway, so where is the point then..

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    I often think it's pointless to debate with atheists.
    Allah SWT has given everyone al-'aql (intelligence) to know that we are created, and it is up to us whether we want to use it. So there will be no one soul in the judgement day who could argue that they did not know.

    imo, it is also self-defeating to argue for our faith using pseudo-science as it will be easily deconstructed piece by piece by the non-believers.

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince View Post
    atheists ask what are the specifics to design and life, go read the Quran, Allah gives the specific details of how he created humanity, and go read the hadiths for more detail.

    as for the creation of the universe, go read the Quran as well as it gives details on this issue, as well as the hadiths.

    as for the creation of animals, the Quran doesnt give the specific details of how they were created because the info isnt that important on how they were created, the Quran was revealed for mankind, not the animal kingdom, im sure if the Quran had been revealed for animals then it would describe their creation in detail just as it did with mankind.

    but lets go to you atheists, how about you explain it to us, OH RIGHT, you cant! you only explain your evolution process but fail to answer and tell us the most important issue, HOW DID IT START, WHAT STARTED IT, atheists have jumped to the process of how life go to where it is now, yet cant tell us why or how it truly began, hey it just happened to be our lucky day. so according to the atheist view your supposed to believe that long ago by chance we dont know how, life simply emerged from this planet, again we dont know how or why, and then eventually this life went through evolution and took us to where we are now, again, we dont know how, or why, meaning it had no reason and no intent, but just happened.

    yes, now that makes lots of sense, and this is leaving out the universe as well and how it got started!
    there is no atheist here so who are you pointing to?
    The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    Imagination is more important than knowledge

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    format_quote Originally Posted by khalid84 View Post
    there is no atheist here so who are you pointing to?
    I think The prince's post was in response to Trumble's, who by the way is an atheist.

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design


    Next time, when you make a post with 1000 lines, can you put in some line spacing? It's very difficult to read a wall of text that size on the internet.
    The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince View Post
    wow what a strong rebuttal from you, accusing the person of being a liar without actually giving any refutation or evidence to counter what the other side has said.
    If I started a thread saying that before the Prophet had his first revelation he was a member of the Ferrari Formula 1 pit crew, would you bother providing evidence against it?

    I do love how you assume what he said is the truth, without evidence, whereas I must provide evidence to show he is wrong.
    format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince View Post
    also to counter your claim on Muslims, why do so many atheists think that poisoning the well and attacking the opponent and acting all superior etc makes the opponent wrong and atheism right.
    I don't. Several dozen lines of absolute gibberish make my opponent wrong, I didn't have to do anything at all.

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar View Post
    I think The prince's post was in response to Trumble's, who by the way is an atheist.
    sorry my bad didnt see that

    format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab View Post

    Next time, when you make a post with 1000 lines, can you put in some line spacing? It's very difficult to read a wall of text that size on the internet.
    aamirsaab the post has been edited and added some spaces between the lines and bigger text
    The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    Imagination is more important than knowledge

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    Author anyone?

    Why oh why do people copy paste articles when there is no credible source? Basics people, basics.

    I am not a scientist so I can't validate any of these claims.

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    format_quote Originally Posted by khalid84 View Post
    there is no atheist here so who are you pointing to?
    jaffacakis the atheist.

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince View Post
    but lets go to you atheists, how about you explain it to us, OH RIGHT, you cant!
    "I don't know how it happened, therefore God did it" is a ridiculous argument and it poses just as much a problem to you as it does anyone else.

    Think about what sort of evidence you would accept as proof of life starting without God or the the universe beginning without God. Apply that to your own beliefs. Do you have that kind of evidence?

    I'm actually interested as to what evidence would convince you that the universe (or life) was not created by God.
    format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince View Post
    you only explain your evolution process but fail to answer and tell us the most important issue, HOW DID IT START
    If you accept that evolution has been explained, do you still believe the part of Islam that says humans and animals were created?

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince View Post
    atheists ask what are the specifics to design and life, go read the Quran, Allah gives the specific details of how he created humanity, and go read the hadiths for more detail.

    as for the creation of the universe, go read the Quran as well as it gives details on this issue, as well as the hadiths.

    as for the creation of animals, the Quran doesnt give the specific details of how they were created because the info isnt that important on how they were created, the Quran was revealed for mankind, not the animal kingdom, im sure if the Quran had been revealed for animals then it would describe their creation in detail just as it did with mankind.

    but lets go to you atheists, how about you explain it to us, OH RIGHT, you cant! you only explain your evolution process but fail to answer and tell us the most important issue, HOW DID IT START, WHAT STARTED IT, atheists have jumped to the process of how life go to where it is now, yet cant tell us why or how it truly began, hey it just happened to be our lucky day. so according to the atheist view your supposed to believe that long ago by chance we dont know how, life simply emerged from this planet, again we dont know how or why, and then eventually this life went through evolution and took us to where we are now, again, we dont know how, or why, meaning it had no reason and no intent, but just happened.

    yes, now that makes lots of sense, and this is leaving out the universe as well and how it got started!

    Intelligent design is not science, this was proven in Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District.

    The “successful” watchmaker argument is a rehash of the argument from design put forth by William Paley*. This was refuted by David Hume who pointed out the flaws of the argument, and this was all done before Darwin and before natural selection was combined with evolution to form the theory known in his day.

    You cannot use purposefully designed objects such as watches or paintings as analogues to naturally occurring objects, you are begging the question by having known creators analogous to unknown creators. We know what humans create, the whole point of theological argument is to provide evidence for the ultimate creator.

    You then have two parts to this argument. The argument from complexity stating that the natural world is far too complex to have any origin other than a purposefully designed origin, and then you need to provide evidence that this designer is not complex (otherwise your argument refutes the independent existence of your own designer) and that this designer exists.

    We have evidence that simple processes can theoretically produce complex forms and structures. All we need to do is provide a functional process that can demonstrate how life could have evolved on its own. Whether you choose to believe that god exists and that god directed evolution towards a specific goal is your choice. Evolution can stand on its own, and does not require a supernatural creator.

    What people don’t realize is that saying or admitting that we do not know the answer to a question does not give the questioner a license to make up whatever theory they would like. Well actually, nothing stops you from making up theories, but in order to be intellectually honest sometimes "I don’t know yet" is the best answer.

    Abiogenesis has nothing to do with the validity of the theory of evolution. It’s a different field of science.

    Cosmology has nothing to do with the validity of the theory of evolution. It’s a different field of science.

    All the best,


    Faysal


    * Edit: As pointed out, William Paley's argument from design was published in his Natural Theology 25 years after Hume's death. However, it is still common to contrast Paley's argument with Hume's refutation to illustrate the common points in discussions today.

    Thank you czgibson
    Last edited by tetsujin; 11-09-2009 at 03:33 AM.

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    format_quote Originally Posted by JaffaCake View Post
    "I don't know how it happened, therefore God did it" is a ridiculous argument and it poses just as much a problem to you as it does anyone else.

    Think about what sort of evidence you would accept as proof of life starting without God or the the universe beginning without God. Apply that to your own beliefs. Do you have that kind of evidence?

    I'm actually interested as to what evidence would convince you that the universe (or life) was not created by God.
    If you accept that evolution has been explained, do you still believe the part of Islam that says humans and animals were created?
    how can u say the universe was not created by Allah what more evidence you need ? the more some 1 explains to atheist the more they ask its better leave this matter as it is and close this thread.
    The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    Imagination is more important than knowledge

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    tetsujin's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    format_quote Originally Posted by khalid84 View Post
    how can u say the universe was not created by Allah what more evidence you need ? the more some 1 explains to atheist the more they ask its better leave this matter as it is and close this thread.
    What evidence has anyone presented? I'm really am curious. There are plenty of people who will be glad to examine it objectively.



    All the best,


    Faysal

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    Intelligent design....

    that could quite possibly be the shortest joke! After "stationary shop moves".

    But "dwarf shortage" still takes the biscuit!

    When a Muslims studies evolution from a science book, and understands the significance of endogenous retro viruses, and begins to have doubts in their head - to read this grossly deficient hogwash! This is genuinely what plants seeds of disbelief - believing that religion does not have an answer!

    The difference in quality between real science and creationist science, is the difference between Shakespeare at his best, and a drunken chav.

    This kind of "science" is intended for people with zero scientific background. Anyone who is remotely in the loop, knows that things like the "watchmaker argument" was annihilated to non existence. You will struggle to find a creationist who will talk about the "watchmaker", without an embarrassed smile come upon their face.

    Yes it is possible to be a Muslim, and still reject this pseudo science twaddle. These arguments do nothing to prove the existence of a creator, and turn away anyone with half a brain.

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    Re: The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

    format_quote Originally Posted by JaffaCake View Post
    "I don't know how it happened, therefore God did it" is a ridiculous argument and it poses just as much a problem to you as it does anyone else.
    Why is that a problem? Can not a mere human engineer concieve haw to build a three prong left handed blivet and then build such if he has the materials. So why is it any less to think that Allaah(swt) can build both the design and the building material? The thoughts of Allaah(swt) do have the solidity of what we call matter, when he choses for it to be.

    Quite simply us humans can not do what Allaah(swt) does. Our inability to duplicate what Allaah(swt) does is no indication he did not create all things. I am not capable of doing heart surgery, does that mean if I believe heart surgeons do not exist is valid?
    The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

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