Science today can explain almost everything we previously didn't know to a fairly good amount of detail and certainty. The evolution of life and its origin, the origin of the universe itself and how it came to be, why storms happen, what causes illness, where life came from, how our planet was formed, I could go on forever with this. My question now is: if science explains almost everything we observe and shows it to have come by through natural cause and effect, even the very beginning of the universe and how this beginning was provoked (e.e. quantum physics explaining the Big Bang), where does God fit into the picture? In other words, where is God's actual work?
EDIT: and what do you think of the view that says God initiated the first cause (if there's any) and then let everything else form spontaneously and naturally through the laws of the universe?
There is a great deal that science still cannot explain. Why is there something rather than nothing? Why did the Big Bang occur? What happened before it? Will the universe continue forever? Are humans inherently good? How should we live our lives? And many other questions.
As long as questions like these remain, I think people will still find room for belief in religion and god. Striving to explain the unknown is also, of course, one of the main reasons for continuing with science.
I would make a slightly different argument from yours. Many phenomena that used to be attributed to a deity, such as crops failing, disease or earthquakes, now have entirely empirical and material explanations attached to them. As a result, god appears to have less and less to do with these events. As human knowledge has developed, the role of god has become increasingly marginalised, and the suspicion that god was the creation of primitive human minds going on the only information they had at the time has become more and more widespread.
Science today can explain almost everything we previously didn't know to a fairly good amount of detail and certainty. The evolution of life and its origin, the origin of the universe itself and how it came to be, why storms happen, what causes illness, where life came from, how our planet was formed, I could go on forever with this. My question now is: if science explains almost everything we observe and shows it to have come by through natural cause and effect, even the very beginning of the universe and how this beginning was provoked (e.e. quantum physics explaining the Big Bang), where does God fit into the picture? In other words, where is God's actual work?
Thanks.
The question doesn't really make sense, since all the things you've mentioned require God. Just because you believe you know a mechanism to some predictable degree does not somehow preclude God.
Not really, no. When you say something requires God then you mean that this certain something is impossible naturally and needs the direct involvement of a law-breaking supernatural being. It happens that all the things I described above require no such involvement.
Not really, no. When you say something requires God then you mean that this certain something is impossible naturally and needs the direct involvement of a law-breaking supernatural being. It happens that all the things I described above require no such involvement.
No I don't mean that. If something is possible or impossible naturally it requires God all the same. Nature and laws are not independent of God; they are created.
There is a great deal that science still cannot explain. Why is there something rather than nothing? Why did the Big Bang occur? What happened before it? Will the universe continue forever? Are humans inherently good? How should we live our lives?
Actually, all these questions have been answered by science, except for what was before the Big Bang. Other than that, I totally agree with what you're saying. I'm just wondering if guys here have something else to say about it.
Modern science, by its very methodology, is designed to explain things without God. God is never an acceptable explanation, even if all the evidence pointed directly to him, because God cannot be quantified nor given any definition that would be satisfactory to this methodology. Therefore it should be neither surprising nor impressive that modern science has provided materialist explanations for so many phenomena. There is nothing new here; philosophers have been providing materialistic explanations for phenomena since Epicurus. The question is not, "can x be explained?" but whether that explanation is the true or complete one, and an explanation will never be complete without taking account of the divine work to which all that there is, in heaven and on earth, owes its existence.
I do not much like to take the tone of a moralist. But the danger of the baobabs is so little understood, and such considerable risks would be run by anyone who might get lost on an asteroid, that for once I am breaking through my reserve. "Children," I say plainly, "watch out for the baobabs!"
Science today can explain almost everything we previously didn't know to a fairly good amount of detail and certainty. The evolution of life and its origin, the origin of the universe itself and how it came to be, why storms happen, what causes illness, where life came from, how our planet was formed, I could go on forever with this. My question now is: if science explains almost everything we observe and shows it to have come by through natural cause and effect, even the very beginning of the universe and how this beginning was provoked (e.e. quantum physics explaining the Big Bang), where does God fit into the picture? In other words, where is God's actual work?
Thanks.
Everything you have mentioned, has it all happened of its own accord? Did the universe decide to create itself through a big bang? What can science tell you about what provoked the big bang? Did it happen without a causing?
God fits perfectly into the picture. He created everything and made it what it is today.
And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.” [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]
Greetings of peace IsamBitar ..for some weird reason i've been reading your name as 'IslamBitar'
format_quote Originally Posted by IsamBitar
Hello everyone.
Science today can explain almost everything we previously didn't know to a fairly good amount of detail and certainty. The evolution of life and its origin, the origin of the universe itself and how it came to be, why storms happen, what causes illness, where life came from, how our planet was formed, I could go on forever with this. My question now is: if science explains almost everything we observe and shows it to have come by through natural cause and effect, even the very beginning of the universe and how this beginning was provoked (e.e. quantum physics explaining the Big Bang), where does God fit into the picture? In other words, where is God's actual work?
Thanks.
Well, it is man who discovered the creation of God because the creation of God is proof of his existence, but scientists gave it a name such as 'science' as it is what they discovered..
Things such as the human body, the human eye or the planets etc etc.
God fits into the picture because something is certainly not created out of nothing, rather it has a creator, it is created some way. In the case of the universe or how the planet was formed, it all came into existence by God.
It's like you've answered your own question but in the most confusing way ever, either way the answer is pretty much in your post.. 'Where did this come from?" or "how was it formed", your answer is by a creator or God, depending what you are discussing. The universe, the planets, you and I, and those who exist in this world, the rivers, mountains, oceans, foods etc are all actual God's work. If you do not accept this or have trouble accepting that a river can be created out of nothing or the sky or even the universe can be created of nothing, then that is completely your understanding or your decision.
The evolution of life, we are provided many things in life that help us evolve as humans, from babies to infants to childhood, to teenagers to adulthood and then old age ..and then finally death, after all that, one would seriously realise one has a purpose right? unless, they lose themselves in the world caring less about why they exist or 'or we do what we like' ..To grow we require food and water, good health, exercise etc etc, what a magnificent creation, if one were to have no water for a number of days they would not have survived.
Greetings of peace
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,
There is a great deal that science still cannot explain. Why is there something rather than nothing? Why did the Big Bang occur? What happened before it? Will the universe continue forever? Are humans inherently good? How should we live our lives? And many other questions.
As long as questions like these remain, I think people will still find room for belief in religion and god. Striving to explain the unknown is also, of course, one of the main reasons for continuing with science.
I would make a slightly different argument from yours. Many phenomena that used to be attributed to a deity, such as crops failing, disease or earthquakes, now have entirely empirical and material explanations attached to them. As a result, god appears to have less and less to do with these events. As human knowledge has developed, the role of god has become increasingly marginalised, and the suspicion that god was the creation of primitive human minds going on the only information they had at the time has become more and more widespread.
Peace
Yes, you are right, there is a lot science cannot explain because they are not the ones whom created this or that.
I don't understand your question "why is there something rather than nothing?"
'Are Humans inherently good?'..this question is pretty much common sense, a baby can never be born bad..all you can see on a baby is pureness. Unless, one believes it to be so due to various beliefs e.g. we are all accountable for someone elses sin or we are born sinners therefore making a baby impure or other reasons..
format_quote Originally Posted by IsamBitar
Actually, all these questions have been answered by science, except for what was before the Big Bang. Other than that, I totally agree with what you're saying. I'm just wondering if guys here have something else to say about it.
Actually, since you or an 'islamic forum' you would recieve answers in accordance to the Islamic beliefs, but you may however feel free to believe what you desire. Here is my attempt to answering 'Czgibson's' questions as you have mentioned this 'I'm just wondering if guys here have something else to say about it.'
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Why is there something rather than nothing?
The question is confusing. so I hope someone else can reply unless they are confused also..
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Why did the Big Bang occur?
Not sure, not looked into this, i assume that is when they say that the earth came out of nothing..If that is the case I shall say that this earth, universe was created.
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
What happened before it?
The earth was created, so whatever happened before the creation, only God knows, and this knowledge is with God Alone. Nor does this take our belief away from focusing on God, it hasnt no concern to us, especially when we cannot comprehend this.
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Will the universe continue forever?
Well this earth for sure will not remain for ever, the Qur'aan does tell us that Hell and Heaven are eternal. not only does the Qur'aan but also various other religions carry this belief, so it is quite certain between many 'thiests' that there is Hell and Heaven..
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Are humans inherently good?
Nope. Living in this world amongst humans of various characters does or can change ones beliefs and values. As muslims we are told that there is satan/shaytaan who likes to carry people on the wrong path, away from the path of righteousness, Allaah informs us that he (shaytaan) is a plain enemy to mankind and not a friend. So we either follow the righteous pure path by obeying our Lord or we follow our desires and lead ourselves to hell knowingly..note I did not state the word 'unknowingly' because God is not injust, he knows well what is in the hearts.
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
How should we live our lives?
In accordance to the law of God, to obey him. Firstly, one knows very well that the path to obey God is not of harm to one it is only of good and enjoyment, so one will know what God has commanded is correct. Secondly, none of that which God commands us to do i.e. do the good and forbid the evil .. is only for ourselves, so we are obeying God by this we are not benefiting God but only ourselves. God is allmighty, he does not need our deeds or food or blood, or anything, that is why one of his names attributed to him are the All-aware, All-wise, The king..and these are just a few of his 99 names attributes to him. I am not sure if ive explained well, so hopefuly someone can explain clearer than myself. So in other words one knows that the creator who created knows very well how his creation works.
I hope ive made sense , if i stated anything incorrect anyone please be sure to correct me inshaa'Allaah - God Willingly..
"Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), Al-Hayyul-Qayyum (the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists).".."[Al Qur'aan 3:2]
Therefore it should be neither surprising nor impressive that modern science has provided materialist explanations for so many phenomena.
But the fact that those explanations are there makes God redundant.
format_quote Originally Posted by Iconodule
[A]nd an explanation will never be complete without taking account of the divine work...
This might be your point of view, which of course has absolutely no evidence, but unbiased science says otherwise.
format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Did the universe decide to create itself through a big bang?
Super moderator O.O sweeeeeet what the hell is that?
Anyway, well, quantum fluctuations explain how and why the Big Bang might have happened. And it perfectly explains how the universe came from nothing.
format_quote Originally Posted by Jεώel oғ ωïѕdoм
for some weird reason i've been reading your name as 'IslamBitar'
Yeah people do that all the time. :/
format_quote Originally Posted by Jεώel oғ ωïѕdoм
Not sure, not looked into this, i assume that is when they say that the earth came out of nothing.
The earth actually naturally formed from star dust that condensed by the influence of its own gravity to eventually form the earth (other planets were formed by the same way). Life exists on earth because Planet Earth happened to be in what scientists call the habitable zone. This is the zone where water does not boil nor freeze, which is several thousand miles wide. The Big Bang was the initial expansion of a singularity (a single dot that contains all matter, energy, space and time) followed by rapid cooling and forming of basic elements (hydrogen and helium) as well as basic stars, where the rest of the elements were formed. Tell me if you want to know more.
format_quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel
Who created the nature and the natural laws? Who created the cause and who created its effect as we know it now?
Modern science, by its very methodology, is designed to explain things without God. God is never an acceptable explanation, even if all the evidence pointed directly to him, because God cannot be quantified nor given any definition that would be satisfactory to this methodology.
If all the evidence pointed towards God, scientists would have no choice but to assume his existence.
Science today can explain almost everything we previously didn't know to a fairly good amount of detail and certainty.
I beg to differ!
The evolution of life and its origin,
Sorry, but it doesn't even come close. If ToE was an exploding hand grenade, I wouldn't be worried about getting injured.
the origin of the universe itself and how it came to be,
Wrong again! It does pretty good after the Big Bang, but what about before?
why storms happen, what causes illness,
OK
where life came from,
Wrong, again!
how our planet was formed, I could go on forever with this.
You proved absolutely nothing with most of this because science DOES NOT adequately explain it!
My question now is: if science explains almost everything we observe and shows it to have come by through natural cause and effect, even the very beginning of the universe and how this beginning was provoked (e.e. quantum physics explaining the Big Bang), where does God fit into the picture? In other words, where is God's actual work?
As I have said, science does not explain 1) the precursor to the Big Bang, 2) the origin of life, or 3) the origin of higher life forms and species from a common unicellular, prokaryotic ancestor. The creation itself is evidence of the Creator for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear with and for those whose hearts are sealed against faith in Allah (swt) they will hold on to their foolishness and refuse to see the obvious to their own detriment.
LOL MustafaMc, All you did was deny everything without even providing an alternative. The ONLY thing you got partially right was that science is not yet sure about what preceded the Big Bang. And even that you didn't provide adequate alternative answers to.
Sorry to tell you, but I am a scientist and I know more than a little about genetics and biology, as Allah (swt) has willed. I don't intend to enter a debate with anyone who can't understand the basics of what I have to say. You can save your insults for someone who gives a rat's ass about what you think about the nonexistence of Allah (swt).
recommendation: in case you're interested to have a debate with scholars about Tawheed to find out the TRUTH not just to be argumentative, there is an awesome site where you can debate, it's called montada eltwhed, you might want to check it out! (it specializes in Tawheed matters)
it's in Arabic too.
it's good to debate here, but there you can ask to have a debate with one person who happens to be a scholar!
Greetings to Nabulus and its people.
Our prophet (pbuh) said: “Haya does not bring anything except good.”
I don't know where you get your information from, but they are most certainly not from science books:
format_quote Originally Posted by IsamBitar
The evolution of life and its origin
The evolution of life is not proven.
And even more so with the origin of life.
format_quote Originally Posted by IsamBitar
the origin of the universe itself
Science proposes the theory of probable initial phases of the universe, but science does not explain the origin of the universe.
format_quote Originally Posted by IsamBitar
where life came from
Science does not explain where life came from.
format_quote Originally Posted by IsamBitar
how our planet was formed
There are still several competing theories on how planets were formed, not a single one is proven as yet.
format_quote Originally Posted by IsamBitar
I could go on forever with this.
I could go on forever picking apart your false information.
format_quote Originally Posted by IsamBitar
how this beginning was provoked (e.e. quantum physics explaining the Big Bang)
Quantum physics does not explain the big bang. Quantum physics may be able to explain some phenomena in a "vacuum", but vacuum is not an absolute nothingness which was the pre big bang condition.
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