بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
Medical profession is a great profession. If a Muslim doctor practices Islam and along with that he/she uses the profession sincerely with sympathy and mercy for patients, he/she may get a good position in the Hereafter.
i think it is self explanatory that the world runs after money, as a measure of success, self image as well as societal praise.
This turns everyone, from doctors and politicians to teachers and caretakers, into money making hogs.
in Quran, Allah asks us to ask him and rely on him for sustenance, perhaps because if we RELY ON OURSELVES, we will do all we can to make money.
Every Muslim must believe strongly in the Hereafter to be fair and sincere in his work/business. But other jobs/businesses are different from medical job because the later deals directly with human life and human pain +human comfort. Therefore, when a medical doctor starts behaving like a businessman, he goes far away from humanity. It is shocking to observe that in the present era most of the medical doctors have completely forgotten the Accounting and Punishment in the Hereafter.
Nimrash Khan liked this post
Their training is extremely lacking, sorry to say.. Influenced strongly by money making pharmaceutical companies. What can a person expect after that..
Aoa
true
One thing which always makes me think deeply about doctors is when they are doing a heart surgery or any other surgery they ask for huge amount of money what are they asking the money for? Even in movies they show "If the money is not credited in the billing section the person will die." LOL these funny doctors and there business!
When a doctor makes surgery he needs much more than only a scalpel - the operation room with all of its hardwares, services of laboratory, nurses, meds etc. They don´t come to a doctor as free gift. In some countries person may get operation cheaply but there bill will become paid by tax money.format_quote Originally Posted by kmjamal
It was double posting.
Last edited by OmAbdullah; 02-21-2016 at 08:09 PM.
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
Doctors' huge fees are not justified with their requirements. Also patients' fees are not paid by the governments in every country. Another sad truth is that a patient may not need surgery but the surgeon pushes him/her to go for surgery only to increase his earnings. Such act is manifest injustice!!!
May Allah forgive you. People spend years, over ten years in medical school committing their time, nights and social life to become a surgeon. Respect and do no belittle their hard work. They deserve their earning by tens years of hard work.format_quote Originally Posted by nbegam
By all means I recommend you to try to apply to medical school yourself and try till you get accepted, so you see what it takes just to get in. Some persons try for 40 years! After you get in, come and repeat your words...
lonewolf007 liked this post
Wonderful thinking you have! Do you think people shuld study this respectful profession for money? Such people qhose intention is to make money should become a politician or work hard in some other field. I think religious scholars and xoctors should not think of such reward in this world and work only for the aake of Allah. Taking only what can make them survive.format_quote Originally Posted by Asiyah3
OmAbdullah liked this post
Re: Medical doctors should not do business with human blood and life
It makes sense that they shouldn't practice haram extortion but that's also the case with any trade, there is a responsibility upon the community to ensure that teachers and doctors are paid well, if there's no good pay you're not very likely to get the best quality, some teachers and scholars have to travel the world over and have access to the best of technology and literature, some doctors have to own the best of equipment, it is essential that the market is allowed to remain free and competitive - within Allah's limits of course - in order for innovation to progress, and it is also essential to have family &/or community &/or government funding (community owned hospitals and generic pharmaceuticals manufacture for those unable to cough up the sums for expensive essential treatment and medicine.
The different arguments by the posters above all have substance to them and all perspectives need to be looked at in order to come to a better understanding.
Lawfully (i.e halal) profiting from a trade, ability or skill is a progressive time tested method of achieving quick increase in innovation, quality and progress, whether you're a carpenter, shoe maker, a weapons manufacturer, (apparently david pbuh used to eat from his trade of making chain mail) , a taxi or ambulance driver, a lawyer a professor or a doctor, the pro bono aspect is however more required in some than in others.
Narrated By Abu Said:
A group of the companions of Allah's Apostle proceeded on a journey till they dismounted near one of the Arab tribes and requested them to entertain them as their guests, but they (the tribe people) refused to entertain them.
Then the chief of that tribe was bitten by a snake (or stung by a scorpion) and he was given all sorts of treatment, but all in vain. Some of them said, "Will you go to the group (those travelers) who have dismounted near you and see if one of them has something useful?"
They came to them and said, "O the group! Our leader has been bitten by a snake (or stung by a scorpion) and we have treated him with everything but nothing benefited him Has anyone of you anything useful?"
One of them replied, "Yes, by Allah, I know how to treat with a Ruqya. But. by Allah, we wanted you to receive us as your guests but you refused.
I will not treat your patient with a Ruqya till you fix for us something as wages."
Consequently they agreed to give those travelers a flock of sheep. The man went with them (the people of the tribe) and started spitting (on the bite) and reciting Surat-al-Fatiha till the patient was healed and started walking as if he had not been sick.
When the tribe people paid them their wages they had agreed upon, some of them (the Prophet's companions) said, "Distribute (the sheep)." But the one who treated with the Ruqya said, "Do not do that till we go to Allah's Apostle and mention to him what has happened, and see what he will order us."
So they came to Allah's Apostle and mentioned the story to him and he said,
"How do you know that Surat-al-Fatiha is a Ruqya?
You have done the right thing.
Divide (what you have got) and assign for me a share with you."
[Sahih Bukhari, Vol 7, Book 71, Hadith #645]
A short while after Abu Bakr as-Siddiq (ra) was appointed as Khaleefah, Umar ibn al-Khattab (ra) and Abu Ubaidah ibn al-Jarrah (ra) were walking in Medinah when they met Abu Bakr (ra) carrying garments on his shoulders and going to the marketplace to trade.Umar asked Abu Bakr, “What are you doing?”
Abu Bakr replied, “I am going to trade.”
Umar said: “After you became responsible for all the Muslims???”
Abu Bakr said, “But I have to feed my family.”
So Umar said, “Lets go and we will pay you an allowance.” [from the state treasury Bait ul-Mal]
Umar and Abu Ubaidah decided to pay Abu Bakr 250 dinars a year and a daily allowance of half a sheep in food.
Some time later Umar was walking in Medinah when he came across a group of women. He asked them “What are you doing?”They replied, “We are waiting for the Khaleefah.”
Abu Bakr did not turn up for office that day so Umar went searching for him and found him in the marketplace trading again.
Umar grabbed the hand of Abu Bakr and said, “What are you doing?”
Abu Bakr replied, “The allowance you gave me is not enough.
”Umar said, “Fine, we will increase it for you.”
Abu Bakr said, “I want 300 dinars a year and a daily allowance of a whole sheep in food.”
Umar said, “No. We are not going to give you that.”
Imam Ali (ra) intervened and said, “Give it to him.”
Umar said, “You think so?”
Ali replied, “Yes.”
So Umar said, “We agree.”
Abu Bakr then stood on the mimbar in the masjid and called the sahaba.
He said, “You have paid me 250 dinars a year and a daily allowance of half a sheep in food, and that wasn’t enough for me. So Umar and Ali have given me an increase to 300 dinars a year and a daily allowance of the whole sheep. Do you agree?”
The sahaba replied, “We agree.”
http://www.khilafah.com/how-much-wil...efah-get-paid/
If we calculate 300 dinar at 4.25g, 22k gold multiplied by 300 we arrive at 1.275kg 22k gold plus 365 sheep per annum,
Calculating at today's spot price http://goldprice.org/spot-gold.html that's $37/g ÷24 x22 x1,275 = $43,273.75 in gold
And if we drastically reduce the cost per sheep at $50 then x365 = at least $18,250 in sheep.
Totalling: $61,523.75 at minimum
But of course, as a trader Abu Bakr would probably earn more and since he was very generous he would have probably spent more than that just on freeing slaves back in the days of Makkah, and would always host many guests and give abundantly in charity - as a caliph his guests would have probably increased tremendously and so too would travel and petty cash.
They were very pragmatic believing men and women.
So Islamic work will remain unprofessional and weak and the needs of the Muslim community especially when they are living as minorities in non-Muslim societies are not going to be fulfilled until the Muslim communities come together and pay enough money to the best people to take care of their essentials. Bring the Arabic teachers to teach you Arabic and pay them well. Bring the Imams to take care of your masajid. Bring the good administrators, the ones who are successful in the business world. Bring such people in the Muslim world so that they can use their skills and run your Islamic organizations professionally and effectively.
Anwar Al Awlaki (may Allah accept his shahadah and be pleased with him).
@32 min 30s
God knows abt the authenticity of the following but link provided:
David divided his working day into four parts: one to earn a living and to rest, one to pray to his Lord, one to listen to the complaints of his people, and the last part to deliver his sermons. He also appointed deputies to listen to his subjects' complaints so that in his absence people's problems might not be neglected.
Although a king, he did not live on the income of his kingdom. Being well-experienced in the craft of weapon-making, he made and sold weapons and lived on that income.
http://www.islamawareness.net/Prophets/dawud.html
Last edited by Abz2000; 02-06-2016 at 09:23 PM.
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
I read the story of the sahaabah, who treated a scorpion-beaten leader of a kaafir tribe. That is, as far as I know, true. BUT when I began to read the story of Abu Bakar Siddeeq rAa, the first Khalifah, its falsehood made me so upset that I couldn't complete reading this post. Alas, alas!!!
I Wonder who was the person to make such a false story about Abu-Bakar rAa. only to make all Muslims astray? "Wa kafa billahi haseeba, And Allah is sufficient to take the account"
Now read the true story about the very first Khalifah. First about the baitul-maal! The Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had placed the public treasury (baitul- maal) with Hudhaifah bin Al-Yamaan rAa. He was so trustable that The Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam gave him the names of all munaafiqeen (hypocrites) and the knowledge of the fitnaas and didn't allow him to tell the names of munaafiqeen to anyone. As Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was the Prophet of Allah, So He didn't put the treasure with the 4 sahaabah who were to become caliph in future.
When Abu Bakar rAa became Khalifah, he took some clothes to go and sell them. Umar rAa met him on the way and prevented him to do business as it would hinder him from taking the responsibilities of khilaafah. Umar rAa took him to Hudhaifah bin Al-Yamaan rAa and asked him to start a salary for Abu Bakar rAa. The salary was so little that they couldn't eat anything sweet. So his wife tried to save something every day until she stored some money to buy something sweet. She gave that money to Abu-Bakar rAa and asked him to buy something sweet. She also told him how she tried to save a little money every day. Abu-Bakar rAa took that money and returned it to the baitul-maal and decreased his income by the amount that his wife had saved saying that this attempt of his wife to save that amount daily meant that they could live without that money.
When Umar rAa became Khalifa, he used to walk in the streets at night to see if the people faced any trouble. They were in extreme fear of Allah's accounting in the Hereafter and they knew and believed that Allah will ask them about their people. His food used to be so simple that some companions went to his daughter Hafsa rAa and asked her to tell her father (Umar rAa) to eat better food, but they took her promise not to disclose their names to him. When she gave him the message, he asked the names of those people. but she didn't tell him. So he gave a general explanation that if he ate good food then under his rule there might be people who would not be able to eat such good food and then Allah will ask him about the difference in food.
There are other stories of their justice. One is here:
Once Umar rAa distributed a piece of cloth from the baitul-maal to each person. Umar rAa also wore a garment made of the similar piece. He was a tall person. In the Masjid a man asked him, "ya ameer-al-mu'meen, your garment is long and could not be made of one piece of cloth. From where did you take the second piece to make this long garment?"
Umar rAa said, "This is a good question, but my son is here, he can better answer this question".
His son said, " I gave my piece of the cloth to my father, so he made his garment from two pieces."
Such was the way of those caliphs. But later the kings etc. not only made the public treasure their personal wealth, rather more than this, they encouraged writers to make such false stories as I read in this post, about those God-Fearing caliphs to justify their actions, alas! alas! alas!
I have great respect for those doctors who fear Allah and due to that they forget their fees when they deal with a patient. But now such doctors are rare. Surely' a doctor who acts as a businessman in the field of medicine, is the one who is playing with the life of mankind and is not to be respected.
A doctor's duties are not only to count his money but also his duties are many fold. He/she must keep an eye on the pharmaceutical preparations as well as on the nurses working with him/her. A good medicine like thiamine (B1) is now missing, generally in its pure form, from the pharmacies. Its deficiency is causing heart- failure and nerves problems. Although it is only a vitamin but it is so useful for health. But doctors have no concern about such things. In hospitals deaths happen due to the mistakes of nurses. Doctors remain quiet, why??? Doctors and nurses can escape justice here but they cannot in the Hereafter. So only a GOD-FEARING doctor will care about his duties to his patients.
format_quote Originally Posted by Asiyah3
been there, done that.
Mehnaaz liked this post
Yeah, indeed sure inshaallah. My father should have become a doctor not for the martial law that was declared by late President Marcos for 20 years that gave in to the revolt in Mindanao, the Muslim-dominated region of the Philippines. He took it in UST. Now, my father's just helping with my mom on her Interior Design and Construction biz but right now they will be having big sum of money thanks to my father whom is helping together with my mom his friend in a land property issue. P320 Million to be exact will be paid due to illegally dumping properties on a land owned by my dad's friend of a company which is a multi-billion peso worth of co. Soon enough, I guess in 1 month, my father said, by continuing and unforfeiting prayer, we shall acquire a percentage I guess a total of P100M/P20M/P200M. That they say will make a huge difference in our life. Inshaallah. Anyways, I also think sometimes of being a doctor but I enrolled as an Computer Engineer and I guess I will have to continue that as I'm already there. I love computers. I am a Scorpio like Bill Gates too. He he.
I fail to see why someone cannot make money from medical care, yes it's better to give for little or nothing and receive your reward in the next life but you could say that about anything, carpentry, farming, etc etc.format_quote Originally Posted by nbegam
That's what's sad though. After all that sacrifice and years, one would expect them to at least know and understand the fundamental principles of health. Makes you question if they are sincerely being trained to help people get better or to sell drugs...format_quote Originally Posted by Asiyah3
kmjamal liked this post
date = تمر = tamr are amongst the sweetest of edibles and they were of such abundance in madinah that abu sufyan is said to have recognised from the date seeds in the dung on the muslim army's camels that they were from al madinah, must have been and asian dude who went on about sweets - anyways, from an all round picture of Abu Bakr (ra) we see that he was very successful in business before and even after having given all his gold in charity and that he lived quite comfortably, had some powerful camels, bought some big ones and fed them expensive food before the migration with the Prophet pbuh to al madinah, had multiple wives (unlike the less financially well off sahabah), had been at the outskirts of al madinah visiting a recently wed wife when news of the acceleration of the Prophet pbuh's illness reached him, had at least one slave (who lost some his finest camels) during pilgrimage with the Prophet pbuh, was known to always entertain guests and spend on them, took on more people to feed after the migratiin than did many other sahabah, and would most likely have had a lot of people including companions, clan leaders and foreign envoys visiting him and sitting around him regularly, etc, etc and Allahu a'lam. but we begin to slightly digress.
There is no need to pretend that halal is haram or vice versa, better that governments set up good practices for the sake of Allah and allow those who will to make more money lawfully. It's more practical and enforcable.
The Prophet pbuh himself is reported in Sahih Muslim to have paid for cupping. Circumcisers also charged i believe.
there is a huge difference between a profession and a part time hobby though the two can be mixed.
it is always useful and often essential that a physician take into account a patient's financial ability before billing them if they indeed charge for private care.
Just recently i went with one of our employees (here in Bangladesh) to the dentist, the work on my teeth was less and that on the employees was humungous in comparision, when it came to quoting the costs i just allowed her to go through the costs and then casually asked her what discount she could provide and it was done, when it came to quoting for my employee i emphasised clearly that i hadn't bargained with her because i could manage it but that he was quite poor and he wouldn't have been able to come had i not offered to pay due to the trouble his teeth were causing him and that she needed to really take that into account, she began to slash off the prices heavily for his bill and it ended up coming to less than my bill despite the hours and number of visits he required and the best part of it was that she appeared as if she was used to charging less for the poor villagers as if just offseting the cost on the more financially able patients. Now, that i believe is good practice. It appeared from the range of parients i saw coming in and the way she'd quickly leave a standard procedure on a well paying patient so as to inspect a poorer patient who had come in groaning in pain that she'd probably deal with an emergency dental operation even if the patient was unable to pay.
My employee also told me that she paused during his procedure to pray Maghrib salah.
Some people hire their own stand-by team of physicians, others choose private care, others are forced to go to private care due to the incompetence or inferiority of government care, others because their government hospital pulls their teeth out without adequate anasthetic, lacking or pocketing the money that would be needed for a decent ceramic/no-reactive metal crown or because the governmet is a puppet and is spending a bulk of the budget (aside from the small kickbacks and loan guarantees from the u.s "world" bank and imf) while trying to paint concerned people and activists as terrorists. Sometimes people get a decent service at the government run publicly owned hospitals and they are happy to go there.
The fault, when it occurs, is not usually the physician's but that of the government or the people.
The choice is not "either capitalism or communism or helplessness and begging" - the only valid choice is Islam with it's truth, sincerity, rigidity and flexibility exactly where needed.
Sunan ibn majah.
Hadith*no: 2198
Narrated / Authority Of:*Anas bin Malik
a man from among the Ansar came to the Prophet (saw) and begged from him. He said, "Do you have anything in your house?" He said: "Yes, a blanket, part of which we cover ourselves with and part we spread beneath us, and a bowl from which we drink water." He said: "Givethem to me." So he brought them to him, and the Messenger of Allah (saw) took them in his hand and said, "Who will by these two things?" A man said: "I will by them for one Dirham." He said: "Who will offer more than a Dirham?" two or three times. A man said: "I will buy them for two Dirham." So he gave them to him and took the two Dirham, which he gave to the Ansari and said: "Buy food with one of them and give it to your family, and buy an axe with the other and bring it to me." So he did that, and the Messenger of Allah (saw) took it and fixed a handle to it, and said: "Go and gather firewood, and I do not want to see you for fifteen days." So he went and gathered firewood and sold it, then he came back, and he had earned ten Dirham. (The Prophet (saw) said: "Buy food with some of it and clothes with some." Then he said: "This is better for you than coming with begging (appearing) as a spot on your face on the Day of Resurrection. Begging is only appropriate for one who is extremely poor or who is in severe debt, or one who must pay painful blood money."
http://mobile.ahadith.co.uk/chapter.php?page=7&cid=170
Sunan Abu Dawud.
(1296) Chapter: Regarding Fixing Prices
(15)باب فِي التَّسْعِيرِ
Narrated AbuHurayrah:
A man came and said: Messenger of Allah, fix prices.
He said: (No), but I shall pray.
Again the man came and said: Messenger of Allah, fix prices.
He said: It is but Allah Who makes the prices low and high. I hope that when I meet Allah, none of you has any claim on me for doing wrong regarding blood or property.
حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عُثْمَانَ الدِّمَشْقِيُّ، أَنَّ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنَ بِلاَلٍ، حَدَّثَهُمْ حَدَّثَنِي الْعَلاَءُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَجُلاً، جَاءَ فَقَالَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ سَعِّرْ . فَقَالَ " بَلْ أَدْعُو " . ثُمَّ جَاءَهُ رَجُلٌ فَقَالَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ سَعِّرْ فَقَالَ " بَلِ اللَّهُ يَخْفِضُ وَيَرْفَعُ وَإِنِّي لأَرْجُو أَنْ أَلْقَى اللَّهَ وَلَيْسَ لأَحَدٍ عِنْدِي مَظْلَمَةٌ "
.Grade:*Sahih*(Al-Albani)
**صحيح** (الألباني)حكم*****:Reference*:*Sunan Abi Dawud 3450
In-book reference*:*Book 24, Hadith 35
English translation*:*Book 23, Hadith 3443
Sahih Al Bukhari.
Book 44, Partnership.
Narrated Abu Musa:
The Prophet said, "When the people of Ash'ari tribe ran short of food during the holy battles, or the food of their families in Medina ran short, they would collect all their remaining food in one sheet and then distribute it among themselves equally by measuring it with a bowl.
So, these people are from me, and I am from them."*
http://www.searchtruth.com/book_disp...4&translator=1
Last edited by Abz2000; 02-13-2016 at 02:42 AM.
Qaaroon was from the relatives of Musa alaihi salaam. He was very rich and didn't want to help the poor and needy. Even he refused to pay obligatory zakat. He also used to give hard time to the Prophet Musa alaihi salaam. Finally Allah's anger caught him and he was sunk into the ground along with his treasure.
Nowadays many sink-holes are opening. Fear God o' mankind. A doctor who takes lots of money from sick people and then stores his money in the interest- banks, is surely earning Allah's Anger. If a patient cannot pay the fees, he/she is not treated. So the patient in pain and his relatives, shall certainly complain to Allah, and the result will appear.
Those who hoard money and those who are on their side must not use the name of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam for their defense. I read in the Thaqaafah Al-Islamiyah Aseelah (a book on the Islamic Culture) that:
1). In Communist system an individual is not given rights to enjoy his money, this is injustice with him.
2). In Capitalism, the individual has right to earn money in any way and store it as he likes. Here he is not under obligation to be careful about the society. So the poor people may suffer while the rich become more and more rich.
3). In the Islamic system, care is taken of at both the individual and society level. Thus both get their legitimate rights. How??
This purpose is achieved by giving a high moral character to all Muslims in a Muslim society. Every man and woman is worried for the Here-After and is in fear of the punishment in Hell. Therefore, every one will think about others more than his/her own self. There is no possibility of storing money in riba-banks, as interest taking is absolutely forbidden in Islam. One cannot believe that a patient will be rejected by a doctor only because he cannot pay high fees, so he has no right to be examined and treated by a medical doctor.
I heard a true story about a doctor. A man had health insurance and the agreement was that the insurance company would pay 1000 Dhs. in one day and not more than that. That man became ill and went to a doctor. The Dr. examined him and then said to him: "Your insurance company pays only 1000 Dhs. per day and my examination fee is 1000 Dhs. So you go today and come tomorrow for the prescription because your Insurance will pay money for buying medicines tomorrow only".
The sick patient had to go and stay in pain for 24 hours more without medicines. Say, Is this humanity???
In the past my father told me a story about a doctor.
He said, " A doctor was sitting in his clinic with a friend. A patient came and told his symptoms. The doctor examined him, then gave him some money and medicines, instructed him how to eat/use the medicine. The patient went away. Then another patient came and he told almost similar symptoms. The doctor examined him and took fee from him, and gave him a prescription to buy medicines. The patient went away and the friend asked the doctor about his different dealings with two patients having similar symptoms. The doctor replied, " The first patient was very poor and his symptoms were due to poverty, so his treatment was financial help. The second patient was very rich and his symptoms were due to increase of wealth, so I took fee from him and let him buy medicines with his money."
When a doctor treats a poor person with sympathy and love, the poor patient is deeply affected and prays for him/her with the depth of heart, thus the doctor earns those du'aas which are much more than money.
This indeed is a very nice story. But it should not only be applicable by the doctors it should be applied by every business individual in the society say i am an engineer and i have good knowledge of IT (Internet Marketing) and his business is going very low and he is frustrated if i help him saying ALLAH will increase in my risq. I think here will be a great change in society and you may rarley find anyone poor or dying out of frustration or financial problems.format_quote Originally Posted by nbegam
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