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Men and women are different, but complement each other.

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    Men and women are different, but complement each other. (OP)


    A lot of political games are being played in the country in which I am residing,
    Looks like they've lost the confidence of the people due to they're kufr and tyranny so are trying to play the old western game and get 50% on board by pretending to get them equal rights, when in reality they are trying to strip them of what respect they have while semi-disrobing them to sell soaps and chocolates,

    Many of us acknowledge differences between men and women while some fall into the rigged game of political correctness and pretend that it's all the same,

    Has anyone noticed how men drive differently and women get cheaper car insurance? how men make risky split second decisions with less regard for established norms, make adjustments quicker in "bending rules/allowances" whether at baggage weight check at the airport, and also are more prone to take bribes? How the family automatically delegates control to the man when on holiday or when the car breaks down?
    Do women like the idea of a man who throws his arms up and looks blankly at the woman when things go wrong?
    how men are attracted to vulnerable rather than macho pant wearing women?
    How boys listen less than girls and are more disrptive and strong headed?

    Is it because men are created for and given the physical tools and strength to take responsibility in overall administration and because they feel the man made box is just a guideline within their control to mold as they see necessary?

    I came across this during my search and it seemed to make sense, (acknowledgement of differences is difficult to find in this brave new world of pol cor


    As a woman and a psychologist who has treated women and couples in the last two decades, I find that as I get older, I make a lot more comments to both male and female patients about how the sexes differ. Let’s take an every day example. A woman complains that her husband or male partner does not listen. Women often complain that a male counterpart wants to provide advice when she talks about a problem. We women can feel unheard in this situation, as we would like our partners to remark on the content of our feelings. Sound familiar?

    When I am talking with patients, I often try to normalize the above example as one way that men and women are different. Although it may be that a couple is not compatible because of difficulties communicating, I am rarely worried about a partnership based on different communication styles. Rather, I try to educate men, women and couples about the differences in perceptions regarding what is ideal communication. Because a man offers advice does not mean that he does not care. A man offering pragmatic sensibilities seems to be evidence that he is listening! When I say this to my women patients, they are often relieved.

    Yet, I find myself sometimes experiencing a curious anxiety when I point out sex and gender differences between women and men. The way men and women listen and talk is just one example. I can get even more anxious when I imply that men process emotions differently and they respond to feelings in a way that can seem foreign to us women.

    This raises the question, are women the same as men? Are we different? And if so, can we live with the idea of difference in a post 1970’s feminist world?

    Talking openly about the biological differences between men and women can be complicated. Louann Brizendine, M.D. wrote a bestselling book in 2006 about the way male and female brains and bodies differ. Whatever readers or reviewers thought about the book, it has been translated into 30 languages and obviously speaks to something we women are concerned about, which is talking about how men and women are different. Of course, socialization and the way we are raised plays an important role, but biology does seem to matter. This may not be news to young women and men, but for women in Brizendine’s generation and my own, such talk can feel like heresy. Brizendine brings this up in the epilogue of her book:

    “There are those who wish there were no differences between men and women. In the 1970’s at the University of California, Berkeley, the buzzword among young women was “mandatory unisex,” which meant that it was politically incorrect even to mention sex difference.”

    Something curious happened along the way for women exposed to feminist beliefs. Those of us in our 40’s and beyond were reared in a time in which we felt we had to deny differences between the sexes. This message had a purpose. We had to justify equal rights and equal pay. Although I can’t say that we have really achieved either, it certainly is better than it has been, at least in the United States. Yet, our current state of external inequality makes it harder to talk about internal and biological differences.*

    Brizendine goes on to say, “The fear of discrimination based on difference runs deep, and for many years assumptions about sex differences went scientifically unexamined for fear that women wouldn’t be able to claim equality with men. But pretending that women and men are the same, while doing a disservice to both men and women, ultimately hurts women. Perpetuating the myth of the male norm means ignoring women’s real, biological differences in severity, susceptibility and treatment of disease. It also ignores the different ways that they process thoughts and therefore perceive what is important.”

    Where does that leave us? Especially as a therapist, I am mindful of not wanting to reduce complaints to differences between the sexes, as we all have our own individual responsibility when it comes to our partnerships. Additionally, I don’t want to bash men. But how did it become the case that talking about biological differences reifies the idea that women are less than equal?

    Just because men and women have different ways of thinking about things does not make women inferior. It would be nice if men and women can both acknowledge the ways we are unique and take a stance that is more understanding. We all have different strengths.

    Trying to understand how men and women communicate, without taking anything personally, can do a lot to help people in heterosexual relationships get along. And it just might be okay to talk about how men are different from us women. In a more equal, understanding and diverse world, we can appreciate differences empathically, not judgmentally. Talking about gender and sex differences might positively influence communication among men and women.
    http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/21...-men-and-women

    The intent of the topic is not for one gender to bash the other, but to acknowledge that we are different and a perceived strength may be a weakness in another field and vice versa, how a perceived female bias may actuly be an inbuilt protection mechanism required for the more localised upbringing of children and loyalty to family etc.
    I know my dad would take out the belt and mum would come and lie for us and even go mad at anyone who complained about us.

    Please heed the request to not turn it into a better than thou contest.

    Peace
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

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    format_quote Originally Posted by Independent View Post
    Sad that you feel the need to say this.
    I didn't speak of my feelings- I said there are no laws against them.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Independent View Post
    No, I said the sentence doesn't make sense. Which it doesn't.
    You're in no position to speak on what does or doesn't make sense given your history here- or would you like to admit that your main job on the forum is to bait people?
    Perhaps one day you too can come clean like this guy:

    http://consciouslifenews.com/paid-in...ebate/1147073/

    best,
    Men and women are different, but complement each other.

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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    format_quote Originally Posted by العنود View Post
    your main job on the forum is to bait people
    Substitute 'my' for 'your' and you have that sentence right.
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Independent View Post
    Substitute 'my' for 'your' and you have that sentence right.
    Why would I do that when it is obvious to all what you are (and btw I have received half a dozen complaints and several warnings from members here against you via PM) telling me just that- ''be careful around this guy he's playing games' puts words in people's mouths and gives them up for the yearly roast. Good luck with all that

    best,
    Men and women are different, but complement each other.

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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    I don't believe the sexes are equal in terms that feminism defines.
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    Men and Women are diffrent Im not politically correct on this issue I believe the sexes are equal in spiritual sense but not in a material sense sorry I don't support Feminism.
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    I don't believe in equality of opportunity to employment or anything because there are jobs Women should not do but Women should be allowed to work if they want to.
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    Independent, you seem to assume and presume a lot.
    First you tell me where I live - despite your intuition leading you to believe it's on the wrong side of planet earth....

    Have you read verse 38 of chapter 43. الزخرف in the Holy Quran?

    حَتّىٰ إِذا جاءَنا قالَ يٰلَيتَ بَينى وَبَينَكَ بُعدَ المَشرِقَينِ فَبِئسَ القَرينُ

    English-YusufAli translation
    ______________________________

    At length, when (such a one) comes to Us, he says: \"Would that between me and thee were the distance of East and West!\" Ah! evil is the companion (indeed)!
    Next you decide to assume what I believe too - by telling me that I believe women should be stopped from "the majority of jobs" lol. - did I whisper that to you in private over a pint of the best intoxicant in a "gentlemen's" club while a woman who needed to feed her family disrobed before the rest of the western"gentlemen"?

    My purpose of this thread was explained from the start,
    It was to be a cause of self reflection and to build understanding and acceptance, in place of false sameness and confusion.
    I watch women work at home and see them doing more than a full time job - it can be exhausting.
    No wonder you guys normally take 1 or 0 children or don't even fulfil the human responsibility of even marrying and passing on anything good to the next generation - not that there's much decency to pass on.
    I believe women should not be stigmatised and made to believe they are seen as inferior when they don't leave their children to go out and work, and would probably be murderously angry if I felt another man was scolding my Missus or telling her what to do.

    and I also believe there are certain jobs men should be EXCLUDED from and shops from where men should be barred.

    The current wishy washy situation in the west seems to have had an effect on its people in terms of their manhood, womanhood, dignity and even humanity.

    But then, it is not we who Muslims who believe that we are just another form of animal products of bestiality between orangutans and apes a stuff, so the difference in perception shouldn't be too alarming.

    verse 70 of chapter 17. الإسراء in the Holy Quran

    ۞ وَلَقَد كَرَّمنا بَنى ءادَمَ وَحَمَلنٰهُم فِى البَرِّ وَالبَحرِ وَرَزَقنٰهُم مِنَ الطَّيِّبٰتِ وَفَضَّلنٰهُم عَلىٰ كَثيرٍ مِمَّن خَلَقنا تَفضيلًا

    English-YusufAli translation
    ______________________________

    We have honoured the children of Adam; provided them with transport on land and sea; given them for sustenance things good and pure; and conferred on them special favours, above a great part of our creation.
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    My purpose of this thread was explained from the start,
    It was to be a cause of self reflection and to build understanding and acceptance, in place of false sameness and confusion.
    If you don't believe in compulsion, that's great. Re-reading your posts I'm not sure exactly where you stand on the issue. Although this line seems to indicate that you do in fact favour state intervention:

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    and I also believe there are certain jobs men should be EXCLUDED from and shops from where men should be barred.
    You speculate about the difference between men and women. It's very hard to say how much we are different by nature, or by nurture. Rather than theorising and guessing, the role of the state should simply to be to provide a level playing field from a legal point of view (ie you can apply for any job no matter what your gender, race or social background).

    If you believe in the principle of equality for all men in employment law or any other area, then you should also support it for women. Equality of access means for everyone, or else it simply isn't equality. It's amazing how often people demand equality for themselves on principle whilst refusing it to other groups in other contexts.

    This doesn't mean that men and women are the same and must be forced to take certain roles. Quite the opposite - they can choose. The state should not get involved. Would you agree?

    Of course, as you mention, society (as opposed to the government) can pressure people into taking one course of action or another. This is more difficult for the state to prevent - and you could argue it shouldn't even try. However, this pressure could be both against female access to employment or in favour of it. You may claim western society unfairly pressures women in a western society to go to work (although I think that's a huge generalisation) yet other societies try to prevent them - especially some of the Taliban groups with active physical coercion.

    HOWEVER - If you believe that your religion dictates some form of male/female division then that is another issue. It makes a big difference in someone's attitude. For instance, an individual woman may feel that the employment restrictions placed on her are God-given and therefore in themselves almost a form of worship. Plainly, she will view these restrictions very differently and not as restrictions at all.

    But a non believer is likely to find those exact same restrictions very insulting and coercive. Therefore, to cater for all its citizens equally no matter what their religion, the state should legislate only to provide equality of access, and let individuals decide whether or not they want to apply for any job. Open access laws don't force anyone to work. Whereas closed access laws obviously prevent selected people from certain professions. Open access provides choice, closed access is coercive.

    An individual may welcome that coercion and therefore not see it as coercion at all - but it is still coercion from a legal point of view.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    First you tell me where I live
    Your style is very British English - perhaps you used to live there? - but of course, reading back it's obvious you live elsewhere (Bangladesh perhaps). This is not important to the debate although it seems to excite Shaden.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    No wonder you guys normally take 1 or 0 children or don't even fulfil the human responsibility of even marrying and passing on anything good to the next generation
    By the way, the key indicator for birth rates seems not to be employment laws, but education. Basically, the more educated women are, the lower the birth rate tends to be. So would you recommend restricting female education?

    'A women's educational level is the best predictor of how many children she will have, according to a new study from the National Center for Health Statistics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.'

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/97facts/edu2birt.htm
    Last edited by Independent; 05-15-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    Independent, you seem to assume and presume a lot.
    What is the difference between assuming and presuming?
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    I know few men who graduated from universities but still unemployed for years. From what I've noticed, it's because their mentality, not because they lost the competition with women in getting a job.

    I've heard some men say, if women entering working field, men who graduated from universities would become taxi drivers. And then they want the women banned in certain professions.

    Okay, if women are banned in certain professions, it would make the men have less competitor. But is it mean they get guarantee to get a job?. In fact, companies prefer to employ people with medium or even low education but have good working ethic than employ universities graduate with bad working ethic.
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Independent View Post
    (ie you can apply for any job no matter what your gender, race or social background).

    If you believe in the principle of equality for all men in employment law or any other area, then you should also support it for women. Equality of access means for everyone, or else it simply isn't equality. It's amazing how often people demand equality for themselves on principle whilst refusing it to other groups in other contexts.
    applying for any job doesn't mean you'll get that job- Again, you seem to confuse what it says on paper with the reality of things, the nepotism, racism, sexism that goes into everything especially here in the civilized west.
    Two people the Muslim woman has better credentials than the WASP male whose name is John they both apply for the same job, he gets it she doesn't!
    You can't challenge that by the way there's plenty of room for them to conjure up any number of reasons of why he's more preferable- none of them will be those politically incorrect ones in theory but the reality is all of them. Male, white, christian will be better than female, black, whose name is lakisha and just converted to Islam & wears a headscarf.
    by the way they did an entire study on that- the female black with the funny name's resume doesn't even make it past the garbage bin!
    If you don't know how the world works then no one can help you there!

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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    format_quote Originally Posted by العنود View Post
    applying for any job doesn't mean you'll get that job
    Of course - we're talking about the principle of access here. You need to at least get that established in law first.

    If women or any other group are barred from entry to a profession either in law or by coercion then nothing else really matters, on paper or otherwise.

    Again, I don't know the US situation as well as the UK or Ireland, but without doubt women's access to employment here has improved and diversified enormously over the last 40 years. Having worked with a number of US companies I see the same there. That doesn't mean it's perfect in every company, in every industry. But the broad picture is unmistakable.
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    man and woman had two different personalty, thinking and by sex they are totally different. but they also complete when they meet each others, because woman creating of God specially for man.
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    It's official. I want to be single forever. o_o
    Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    When I was teen, there was a family that lived near my home. They have three kids. Boy, girl, boy. The age difference to the each was one year. The youngest was in the same age with me.

    One night, after Isha time, I visited their home and I saw the mother stood on terrace, she looked worry. I asked her
    "What happen, aunty?"
    "My daughter! she hasn't back home in this time!
    "But you never worry when your sons back in midnight"
    She scolded me "They are boys! they can protect themselves! but she is a girl! if something bad happen to her, then how?!"

    Few moment later her daughter came. Then the mother scolded her daughter due to "made the parent so worry".

    In another time. I visited their home. The mother told me that there was a problem. The oldest son ran from home and brought the family car. She need my help. So...
    "What can I do for you, aunty?"
    "Find, and bring back to me"
    "Okay, I will find your son and bring him back to the home"
    "No! you misunderstand. I don't need that boy. I just need that car. Find that car and bring back to me!"

    Next day when I rode motorbike with the youngest son accidentally we found him. So, we took the car and left that boy on the street. The mother applause me with "good!". The boy himself back to home a day later, and the parent welcome him with "Still need a home, don't you?"

    That's the difference between boy and girl
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto View Post
    one night, after isha time, i visited their home and i saw the mother stood on terrace, she looked worry. I asked her
    "what happen, aunty?"
    "my daughter! She hasn't back home in this time!
    "but you never worry when your sons back in midnight"
    she scolded me "they are boys! They can protect themselves! But she is a girl! If something bad happen to her, then how?!"

    few moment later her daughter came. Then the mother scolded her daughter due to "made the parent so worry".

    In another time. I visited their home. The mother told me that there was a problem. The oldest son ran from home and brought the family car. She need my help. So...
    "what can i do for you, aunty?"
    "find, and bring back to me"
    "okay, i will find your son and bring him back to the home"
    "no! You misunderstand. I don't need that boy. I just need that car. Find that car and bring back to me!"

    next day when i rode motorbike with the youngest son accidentally we found him. So, we took the car and left that boy on the street. The mother applause me with "good!". The boy himself back to home a day later, and the parent welcome him with "still need a home, don't you?"
    LoL, that's funny.
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  22. #57
    Trying2bbetter's Avatar Full Member
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    Lightbulb Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    I used to be quite a feminist when I was in school. I used to think men & women are equal, that women should be allowed to wear whatever they liked and that men should learn to control themselves rather than expecting women to alter themselves. I used to literally dream about beating guys up. But it was all while I was in a girls' school. Once I entered the "real" world I figured men & women have their biological (physical & mental) differences, that they cannot be friends, that there are inevitable differences. I started reading the Quraan which also helped me understand (and accept) things much better.

    I think this picture describes it the best

    <unable to post picture - I haven't posted on IB enough times yet>

    If you google "equality vs justice" images you'll see what I'm talking about (3 people with different heights standing on boxes)


    Basically, justice isn't equality, justice is where people are treated fairly and reasonably. An old person should be given a place to sit rather than a young, fit person. According to equality, both get half the time to sit, or share the space uncomfortably. But in essence, old people are more frail, so they should be given the opportunity to rest their bodies.

    Example - If a man goes out alone it doesn't automatically make it appropriate/fair for women to do so too. Ladies, please don't take offence. I truly wish I could be super strong too, but it's just not the way Allah planned, and Allah knows best. We should definitely try & be as strong as we can, but expecting crazy results isn't sensible. We can't *generally* beat guys at physical fights. Similarly, there are a lot of other things where one gender does better than the other. The art is to accept it and turn the differences into synergies.
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  23. #58
    Ahmad H's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    Pretty much any Islamic scholar will say that men and women are not equal. I think that it is obvious, and if anyone is angry at hearing that then they need a reality check. A feminist who thinks she can be equal in every respect to a man ought to take it upon herself to fight a man in a physical fight and see if she stands up to him. Similarly, a man who thinks he is the exact same thing as women are should see if he could give birth to any children. He also cannot breastfeed any children and cannot wake up at night as easily as a woman can to a child's crying, etc.

    The other thing is that there are many other differences which people aren't aware of that I would rather not go into detail about since I am still ignorant of their reality. But I know enough to say myself and agree with anyone who states that men and women are not equal. Fair treatment is definitely the right way to describe the way men and women should treat each other. Both of them have different roles in society and not the same. Islam has the solution to that issue. It's just a matter of people gaining knowledge on the rules in Islam and why they are the way they are. Again, like most problems about Islamic principles, the root is ignorance of the religion.
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  24. #59
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H View Post
    Pretty much any Islamic scholar will say that men and women are not equal.
    In status as human, men and women are equal. The one is not higher than another.

    However, men and women are different. It's created different gender role with many inequalities. In example, the husband have duty to make money to fulfill the wife needs, while the wife is free from duty to make money for the husband. In matters like this men and women are not equal.

    Are men and women equal in Islam?. Yes and no. Depend on context.
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  26. #60
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    Re: Men and women are different, but complement each other.

    Agreed.
    In GENERAL (with exception) there are things that males perform better in. There are things that females perform better in. We often perceive things very differently.

    A simple example: If I ask my wife were the personal property tax receipts for our vehicles in 1999, she'll tell me, "Downstairs. Blue desk, left hand drawers, middle drawer. Manila envelope 1/2 to the back." And she will be right. Every time. I try not to ask all the time, but it could take hours for me to find that, if at all. I am glad when I know where my car keys are in the morning.

    On the other hand, I have no idea how she finds anywhere she is going on her own. Women generally amaze me with their lack of orientation to their surroundings. This is typical, with exception.

    In short, she is amazing with organization and remembering such things. I, on the other hand, am a total nincompoop. I have an internal compass and map, she would get lost going anywhere New. There are many other strengths and weaknesses and we're aware of this.

    Isn't that the way it was intended to be? A partnership where a married couple together can accomplish so much more together?
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