We Will Never Unite With The Rafidah - Shaykh Ahmad Musa Jibril

format_quote Originally Posted by islamdude

Lo! You are the ones who love them but they love you not, and you believe in all the Scriptures [i.e. you believe in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), while they disbelieve in your Book, the Qur’aan]. And when they meet you, they say, ‘We believe.’ But when they are alone, they bite the tips of their fingers at you in rage. Say: ‘Perish in your rage. Certainly, Allaah knows what is in the breasts (all the secrets).’ 3:119

“Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) till you follow their religion. Say: ‘Verily, the Guidance of Allaah (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) that is the (only) Guidance.’ And if you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) were to follow their (Jews and Christians) desires after what you have received of Knowledge (i.e. the Qur’aan), then you would have against Allaah neither any Wali (protector or guardian) nor any helper” 2:120

This is my last reply to you.

Peace

You posted a Madni ayah. Speaking of what? what is the context? please do share Mr Hubris.

Now.... do something else - Tell me what movement this ayah speaks of: 5:51

Zionism. Clearly. The unholy alliance which ignores the theological nemesis of Judaism vs Trinitarian Christianity to foment an "alliance" in order to do what? Take Jerusalem in the name of a politically aligned plan which has fruited in the modern age.

The ayah speaks specifically of Jews and Christians who are friends to each other - they have no reason to be friends because they are natural enemies to each other. The Jews boast they killed Jesus pbuh - the Christians lament that the Jews killed Jesus pbuh - how can these two ever be friends? Unless, it's an alliance based on political factors and ignores the most important thing - they are natural enemies to each other?

SO yes, do define for me the proper context of the ayah you posted, something tells me you don't have a clue mate.

Most Christians are not Zionists, but majority Jewry is.

Scimi

And where does it tell us to make them our enemy?

I would rather keep peace instead of incite hatred.

The Quran is not a polarised revelation, it has nuanced contexts which have to be considered, pondered and thought about at length - explanations from scholars help, but they do not always answer satisfatorily.

Please find me the verse.

Nearest in love to the believer are those who call themselves Christian because among them are priests and monks... why do you ignore this?

I sit with a priest in the library sometimes, we discuss things - religion mainly, not a bad thing at all. In fact, it is through interaction that we can show them that their theology does not appeal to common sense. Slowly.

As was done last year on another forum where 7 members converted to Islam over 8 months, quite a few being Christian.

If I was to treat them as my enemy because of some wayward misinterpretation of a scholars explanation of ayat taken from the Qur'an, posted online in English, translated from Arabic - I'd be not doing my intellect any justice.

Why do you not do yours any justice? Serious question

Scimi

Some of you seem to think that just because you don't agree with anothers theology, you have to hate them - no you don't. You pity them instead. And hope they can be guided. And show them what a Muslim is - so they can have something to aspire towards, because their own deen is lacking in that way.

Not, "they are my enemy aaarrrrgghhhh" sheesh.

Some sects, from all faiths, are beyond help though - my advice is, steer clear of any interaction with them, at all. They are beyond reason. Leave them to Allah. Unless they make war on you, then defend yourselves in the way of Allah.

If you are using the web, and sitting comfortably, having your three meals a day and your electricity, and all that good stuff, in relative security, you have no right to foster such openly voiced opinions full of hatred, Allah has been merciful to you - can you not appreciate that?

Dang.

Scimi

format_quote Originally Posted by islamdude

Brother we love and hate for the sake of Allah. Thats called al wala wal bara.

“O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies (i.e. disbelievers and polytheists) as friends, showing affection towards them, while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth”[al-Mumtahanah 60:1]
But that does not mean that we cannot be kind to them.

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. 60:8

Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided. 16:125

We love good people, and hate evil people. Simple as that

I have my al wala al bara, i don't go shouting about it though because that my bro - if fitan... that - is what you do not understand.

None of you do.

Scimi

Let me ask you a question.

Are you satisfied with Free Speech laws in the west?

You know? the ones which allow derogatory movies and hate speech to be directed towards us Muslims? Do you think it is fair?

No. Obviously not.

So please tell me how throwing hate speech out here against Christians and Jews is helping your case.

Kinda makes people like you look rather hypocritical doesn't it?

As for Jesus pbuh, reportedly from the Nasari creed, they claim during an event when an adulteress was about to be stoned, he said "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone" - none obliged.

Stop throwing stones, you aint perfect bro,

Scimi

Assalamu alaykum,

Yes, loving and hating for the sake of Allah swt. That term is used so loosely these days and taken way out of context.

We hate what Allah swt has forbidden, and love what He commands. So we hate misguidance, and love guidance.

We don't hate those who are misguided, because as Muslims it is our duty to invite and give dawah to those who do not have the beautiful gift of guidance. Alhamdulillah. Because someone is the way they are now, doesn't give anyone the right to give them a lifetime of condemnation and vehemence - certainly point out the error in their theology or beliefs if you're so inclined, but describing them as the 'enemy' and turning away from them never did anyone ever good. As if anyone who might be reading this specific thread now is going to get a particularly positive impression of Muslims anyway.

I also get the impression some people feel pressurised to 'hate' those who differ from them. I suffered from a similar phase myself when anyone who had a slightly differing opinion used to almost upset me and I would get wound up trying to explain to them what was right. Explain and teach, certainly, and if they are willing to open their hearts and listen, alhamdulillah. If they don't, and they're doing nothing to you, it is between them and Allah swt.

format_quote Originally Posted by islamdude

Woow you are very smart. Are you a schoolar or?

I really don't appreciate sarcasm.

format_quote Originally Posted by islamdude

Sister you should not talk about the deen without knowledge.

And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart - about all those [one] will be questioned. 17:36"Verily, it is indeed Satan that makes you do evil and say things about Allah (or His deen) of which you have no proper knowledge." Al-Baqarah 2:169

for the reminder brother, this applies to all of us inshaAllah.

What scares me is some people whose use some religion as justify their hate against other people they don´t know at all but whose belong to some other group (religion or nation or race). It´s only a small step when some others may also justify the violence against others by the same arguments. And it has already happend. Many many times.

I am prob doing it wrong then, because every time I try to implement Al barraa, I get unfocused, and can barely learn anything. I hate shias as a group, I hate their beliefs - because I know the reason to that.

I hate kufr, and I do not want kufr to win, nor am I pleased with kufr laws. I want shariah.

I take distance and hate the ways of kuffar, but as for some kuffar friends I have. If I was to carry hatred towards them, I'd prob turn them away. I hate their ways, but I do not hate them personally, this does not mean I do not hate their ways of kufr - I do. Unless they are clearly against Islam, I won't hate them personally.

Am I wrong? :-/ If I think too much about this, I will prob lose focus again....

Allahu alam.

format_quote Originally Posted by islamdude

You should hate them because of their disbelief.

Brother I gave you proofs, and if thats not enough for you than I dont know what else to say.

That's my last reply to this thread. Have a good night

Idk man, I hate shias because I see a reason to do that. But I can not hate someone I don't know......... (personally) Because how can I hate someone I haven't even met or known? It just sounds judgmental to me. Astaghfirgullah.

Cuz then I'd have to hate my own family, and I can't do that. They don't pray.

This is a case by case. I will show compassion, hatred, love, etc. According to what situation it is. Say the kuffar who bomb Syria without regret, I hate them and those who cover and support that. But the average kafir, just no.

I just feel sick and confused to hate someone like that. I can't do it.

By that logic, the Prophet should have hated his Uncle, abu Talib, but we all know he loved him. So what about that?? Abu Talib was a kafir, yet The Prophet loved him. Abu Talib Didn't show any animosity towards Islam.

Abu Talib helped the Prophet etc. And the deen even more so than many Muslims today, afaik.

may Allah help me understand His deen. Ameen.

An Important point is that I think you can love and hate at the same time.


loving one's parents, brothers, sisters and other family members + loving the wife are from the natural love, that is permissable.
But at the same time one hates their kufr, the kufr that they are upon, and one tries his best to call them to islam.

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Taken from: http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=949&ln=eng


Praise be to Allaah.
Ibn Al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said regarding this matter:

There are four kinds of love, which we must differentiate between, and those who go astray do so because they do not make this distinction. The first of them is love of Allaah, but this alone is not sufficient to save a person from the punishment of Allaah and to earn him His reward. The Mushrikeen, worshippers of the cross, Jews and others all love Allaah. The second is love of that which Allaah loves. This is what brings a person into Islam and out of Kufr. The most beloved of people to Allaah is the one who is most correct and most devoted in this kind of love. The third kind is love for the sake of Allaah, which is one of the essentials of loving that which Allaah loves. A person’s love of that which Allaah loves cannot be complete until he also loves for the sake of Allaah. The fourth is love for something alongside Allaah, and this love has to do with shirk. Everyone who loves things alongside Allaah but not for the sake of Allaah has taken that thing as a rival to Allaah. This is the love of the Mushrikeen. There remains a fifth kind of love which has nothing to do with our topic; this is the natural love which is a person’s inclination towards that which suits his nature, such as the love of a thirsty person for water or of a hungry person for food, or the love of sleep, or of one’s wife and children. There is nothing wrong with this unless it distracts a person from remembering Allaah and keeps him from loving Him. Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):
“O you who believe! Let not your properties or your children divert you from the remembrance of Allaah” [al-Munaafiqoon 63:9]
“Men whom neither trade nor sale (business) diverts from the remembrance of Allaah” [al-Noor 24:37]
(Al-Jawaab al-Kaafi, 1/134)
And he said (may Allaah have mercy on him):
The difference between loving for the sake of Allaah and loving something alongside Allaah is one of the most important distinctions. Everyone needs to make this distinction and is indeed obliged to do so. Loving for the sake of Allaah is a sign of the perfection of faith, but loving something alongside Allaah is the essence of shirk. The difference between them is that a person’s love for the sake of Allaah is connected to his love of Allaah; if this love becomes strong in his heart, this love dictates that he will love that which Allaah loves. If he loves that which his Lord loves and he loves those who are the friends of Allaah, this is love for the sake of Allaah. So he loves His Messengers, Prophets, angels and close friends because Allaah loves them, and he hates those who hate them because Allaah hates those people. The sign of the love and hatred for the sake of Allaah is that his hatred for the one whom Allaah hates will not turn into love merely because that person treats him kindly, does him a service or meets some need he has; and his love for those whom Allaah loves will not turn to hatred simply because that person does something that upsets or hurts him, whether it is done by mistake or deliberately, in obedience to Allaah or because the person feels that he has a duty to do it for some reason, or because the person is a wrongdoer who may yet give up his wrongdoing and repent. The entire religion revolves around four principles: love and hatred, and stemming from them, action and abstinence. The person whose love and hatred, action and abstinence, are all for the sake of Allaah, has perfected his faith so that when he loves, he loves for the sake of Allaah, when he hates, he hates for the sake of Allaah, when he does something, he does it for the sake of Allaah, and when he abstains from something, he abstains for the sake of Allaah. To the extent that he is lacking in these four categories, he is lacking in faith and commitment to religion. This is in contrast to the love of things alongside Allaah, which is of two types. One is diametrically opposed to the principle of Tawheed and is shirk; the other is opposed to perfection of sincerity and love towards Allaah, but does not put a person beyond the pale of Islam.*
The first kind is like the love of the Mushrikeen for their idols and gods. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And of mankind are some who take (for worship) others besides Allaah as rivals (to Allaah). They love them as they love Allaah” [al-Baqarah 2:165]

These Mushrikeen love their idols and gods alongside Allaah as they love Allaah. This love and devotion is accompanied by fear, hope, worship and supplication. This love is pure Shirk which Allaah does not forgive. Faith cannot be perfected unless a person regards these idols as enemies and hates them intensely, and hates the people who worship them, and regards them as enemies and strives against them. This is the message with which Allaah sent all His Messengers and revealed all His Books. He created Hell for the people of shirk who love these rivals, and He created Paradise for those who strive against them and take them as enemies for His sake and to earn His Pleasure. Anybody who worships anything from the vicinity of the Throne to the lowest depths of the earth and takes a god and a supporter besides Allaah and associates another beings in worship with Him, will be disowned by the object of his worship when he is most in need of it [i.e., on the Day of Judgement].

The second kind is love for the things which Allaah has made attractive to people, such as women, children, gold, silver, branded beautiful horses, cattle and well-tilled land. People love them with a kind of desire, like the love of the hungry person for food and the thirsty person for water. This love is of three kinds. If a person loves them for the sake of Allaah and as a means of obeying Allaah, he will be rewarded for that; it will be counted as a part of love for the sake of Allaah and a means of reaching Him, and he will still find enjoyment in them. This is how the best of creation [i.e. the Prophet http://www.islamqa.com/images/saws.gif (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] was, to whom women and perfume were made dear in this world, and his love for them helped him to love Allaah more and to convey His Message and fulfil His commands. If a person loves them because they suit his nature and his own desires, but he does not give them preference over that which Allaah loves and is pleased with, and he gets them because of his natural inclination, then they come under the heading of things which are permissible, and he will not be punished for that, but his love of Allaah and for the sake of Allaah will be lacking somewhat. If his sole purpose in life is to get these things, and he gives priority to that over that which Allaah loves and is pleased with, then he is wronging himself and following his own desires.
The first is the love of al-Saabiqoon (those who are foremost in Islam); the second is the love of al-muqtasidoon (those who are average) and the third is the love of al-zaalimoon (the wrongdoers).
Al-Rooh by Ibn al-Qayyim, 1/254.