I encountered a situation last weekend. I went to the halal shop and instead of the normal brother serving this time, it was a sister. She was arab speaking I think probably Lebanon origin. I have only been to the shop 2, 3 times, with my husband and I was shocked at the women who came in there I only saw this time. Arabic speakers, they were dressed very improperly. The counter girl must have been around 21, 22 years old and had a halter top!!! I was amazed, she said salam and I felt a frown on my face automatically. I am so ashamed now.
It;s ignorance, i never did this before, but I thought, man your language is arabic, I am even deprived of this, you can understand all the ahdeeth and quraan first hand, and yet you stand here like this???
to make her feel guilty I went into the shop again, without my family and bought a Quraan and some islamic CDs for my kids. This time I tried to smile.
I wanted to ask all the hijabi and niqabis how would you treat a non hijabi muslim woman who dresses indecently.
Do you also feel sour? I normally feel very open minded and try and treat them well, so tey can be attracted towards hijab, but I feel so guilty now, I dont know why I was feeling kinda biased.
I was wondering what the etiquettes were for encountering non hijabi sisters...
None what you said is RIGHT. If yo're going to claim to follow the Prophet then learn to accept not only Qur'aanic verses but hadiths where the Prophet(saw) mentioned veiling. The only one falsifying is you. I'm done tellin u anything. My posts were deleted too so plz calm down.
We fall in innovation centuries after death of our prophete Mohamed SWS.
Covering our hair was not done centuries after at all. Infact it was done while he(saw) was present!
Unless the admins address his posts I'm going to end up replying to it. So please reply, rather than the issue be unaddressed. I mean this sincerely. I apologize that this went out of hand, but I cannot, I repeat, cannot let lies fly! Especially about Islaam. At all
JazakAllah Khair
Last edited by Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн; 07-24-2009 at 01:47 PM.
*Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
I think personally it is best if we do not speak ill of anyone, regardless of wether they are not wearing hijab or dressing immodestly.
If an issue arises in the masjid/mosque, and you feel very uncomfortable notify anyone who may be in charge. They should address the issue to the entire congregation.
I did this myself. A girl who was attending the mosque and for a time was a friend was speaking about inappropriate things and texting and calling boys while the Imam was saying a Hutba (sorry if thats not spelled right)
I felt very uncomfortable and later told the Imams wife, she then told the imam and the following week he made a 20 minute lecture about how girls/women and men need to put away their phones or they will be taken away and they need to either step out of the mosque or keep their conversations appropriate and stop talking when the imam is giving a lecture.
After that, i noticed many girls who were acting poorly either stopped showing up or kept quiet. Anyone who continued to behave poorly was escorted outside by one of the women elders.
So again, i dont think we should be judging, only educating. If we see a sister we know is Muslim behaving poorly, dressing poorly, we can try to educate that sister. If she returns it with hostility, we must leave it to Allah swt, and move on. Some people are so far in the dark that only Allah swt can help them. It is sad, and yes it does frustrate us and anger us, but we must keep our cool.
I agree that we are not allowed to Judge anyone or criticize and speak ill of anyone.. but I sincerely don't understand what some of us are saying.. how can we treat a Muslim woman dressed totally indecently and one dressed Islamically the same ?
Many of us keep saying we cannot Judge anyone and we do not know what is in their hearts and okay I agree with that. But what about the hadith of the Prophet where he said that if u see evil stop it with your hands, if u can't stop it with hands, then stop it with your words, and if not that, then atleast think bad of it in your heart and that is the lowest of your eemaan.
Where does this hadith come in then?
I understand that some Muslim girls who dress inappropriately are ignorant or they are trying and good at heart, and ofcourse our approach with them is more softer and gentler and encouraging. But some girls know everything yet still dress like that. They are rebellious. How can we treat them all 'how are u haha hehe' n be nice ? Should atleast keep quiet n make them feel embarrassed.
format_quote Originally Posted by zanjabeela
It's not about the way a woman dresses and behaves. It's about the way some men think.
Isn't it about both? Allaah did not only tell the men to lower their gaze, He told the woman to cover too.
Yes, it is our job to stop haram, but first with OURSELVES and our own families, THEN we can worry about others.
When you dont have haram in your life, thats when you have the right to go stopping others form doing haram.
You are responsible for yourself, that girl at that store is a grown women by most peoples standards, if she hasnt learned the difference between immodesty and modesty and her father and mother did not teach her or did not guide her....what makes you think shes going to listen to you?
Yes, it is our job to stop haram, but first with OURSELVES and our own families, THEN we can worry about others.
When you dont have haram in your life, thats when you have the right to go stopping others form doing haram.
You are responsible for yourself, that girl at that store is a grown women by most peoples standards, if she hasnt learned the difference between immodesty and modesty and her father and mother did not teach her or did not guide her....what makes you think shes going to listen to you?
I don't think its a good idea to say it's your job to stop others from committing haram, cause they have a right to do as they please, as long as it isn't breaking that specific nations laws. If you tried to stop people from listening to any kinda music, you'd have to attack them, and then your a vigilante for a cause that most are against, including me.
I don't think its a good idea to say it's your job to stop others from committing haram, cause they have a right to do as they please, as long as it isn't breaking that specific nations laws. If you tried to stop people from listening to any kinda music, you'd have to attack them, and then your a vigilante for a cause that most are against, including me.
If they are Muslim, you have a duty to tell them what's right, at least. The Prophet pbuh said "You don't believe until you desire for your brother, what you desire for yourself". If I wish to be a good Muslim, I should be concerned for the well being of the other Muslims. Though I can't be overbearing, nosy, or force them to listen.
If they are Muslim, you have a duty to tell them what's right, at least. The Prophet pbuh said "You don't believe until you desire for your brother, what you desire for yourself". If I wish to be a good Muslim, I should be concerned for the well being of the other Muslims. Though I can't be overbearing, nosy, or force them to listen.
The statement I quoted, said, STOP it, not stop it by using the voice, I took it as a physical way also. If that is not how the individual meant it, I apologize.
hmm this is interesting, what about "loving and hating for the sake of Allah", to love that which Allah loves and to dislike that which Allah dislikes,
can we say Allah loves and likes the women who walks down the road exposing all her body and beauty wearing tight clothes causing the men to become tempted and go astray.
no we cannot say this, so is it not our duty as Muslims to dislike and like the things that Allah likes and dislikes. How can you treat her the same when you love that which Allah loves and dislike that which Allah likes.
hmm I guess you could dislike the action of her not covering up and that's it, or you could dislike her as a person for the fact that she's disobediant to Allah and you only love those who are obediant to Allah and dislike those who aren't obediant to him.
it's tricky after thinking about it am not sure myself what the correct response to this kind of women is, the following questions come in my head
1) Does Allah dislike this women individually because she's disobeying him
2) Or Does Allah just dislike this one specific action of hers walking out uncovered, and as an individual likes her,
I personally IN MY OWN OPINION can not treat the women the same, I feel nothing but dislike towards her my justification for this is, if you were an ex smoker would you like a person infront of you always smoking and making you inhale their smoke and poison tempting you to start smoking again and also, killing you along with them, you wouldn't like it you'd dislike them and not treat them the same as everyone else.
Similarly the women who walks around uncovered poisens the men with her act of not covering up, it's not just herself that she impacts upon she impacts upon every man that walks past her.
Although men are commanded to lower their gaze it'd be alot easier for the man to obey Allah in following this commandment if the women was covered up as oppossed to wearing skin tight clothing and low cut tops or just not covering up islamically in general.
So how can I treat her the same or like and not mind something that is causing big temptation for male muslims and causing them to go astray, it's like putting alcohol infront of a person who used to drink before Islam and telling him to not drink it, would you like the person who put the alcohol infront of the Muslim, would you treat him the same even though he's tempting you by putting this alcoholic drink infront of you?
No you wouldn't, you'd say what a fool doesn't he know that man hates to drink alcohol and hates anything that brings him near it, why's he putting it directly infront of him, right in his face, in his eyes. And you'd dislike that person for tempting the individual to fall into a big sin and you wouldn't treat them the same as everyone else.
This is similar to the women who walks around uncovered she's tempting the men constantly to fall into a big sin so how can you treat her the same when she's an open temptation to evil? how can you treat her the same when because of her making her body a temptation, many brothers have gone astray and fallen into stuff like zinna because they're unable to restrain their glances? Yes when zinna occurs both partys are to blame but the chances of it happening are decreased if the women is covered up and dressed modestly because there's less chance of her attracting the man.
I feel nothing but dislike towards her, she's aiding the devil how can I not dislike her :S.
It's like satan walking around but instead of whispering in your ear he's appearing infront of you in the form of an uncovered women. How many times the Muslim man instead of saying " 'a uthu billahi minna shaytaan nira jiim" and lowering his gaze to the ground he continues to look and smile and then approaches her, yes the blame is upon him also because he carried on looking and found it way to appealing to his desires to not look, but wouldn't it have been less appealing to him if she was covered up instead of walking around uncovered? Does she take more of the blame because the desire inside the man is much stronger than a women? If it was the other way round and the desire was stronger in women and men were ordered to cover up lol wouldn't you dislike men walking around uncovered because you'd see them as creating unnecessary temptation for you, if you were a man you'd understand why it's such a big temptation lol.
But then again it's possible I am being too harsh, what if the girl doesn't know that her dressing like that is disobediance to Allah and that it causes such a big temptation for the men and causing some of them to do evil.
Then I think she should be advised about how Allah commands the women to cover up and it should be explained to her that men are weak when it comes to this area. Yes they are told to lower their gazes but it would be much easier and pleasanter for them to do so if you wern't dressed the way you were.
And after this if she persists then I say you should dislike her and don't treat her the same cos of her causing herself to be a temptation for your brothers. Do you like bars and clubs? I don't because their a temptation for people I apply the same principle here I dislike anything that is a trial and temptation for the believer.
She's totally different from the beautifull muslim lady who covers up and doesn't aid the shaytaan in leading man astray. The women who doesn't cover up reminds me of a drug dealer lol there tempting you to take the drug and get high and feel good, trying to attract you towards taking the drug, would you treat a muslim drug dealer the same way?, and they do exist.
The sin of a women not covering up is seen trivial by some people but amongst the brothers I know personally, it's hated because it's seen as unessary temptation, it's a trial you don't need or want and hate to go through over and over, especially when it's done by "Muslim women".
To show how serious the messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) thought this topic to be of the woman covering up below are some hadiths
2. A women is a object of concealment, thus when she emerges, Satan surreptitiously pursues her (and lays in wait to create his fitna for immorality).
"There will be in the last of my ‘Ummah’ (Muslim Nation), scantily dressed women, the hair on the top of their heads like a camel’s hump. Curse them, for verily they are cursed.”
In another version, the Messenger (saw) said: “…scantily dressed women, who go astray and makes others go astray; they will not enter Paradise nor smell its fragrance, although it can be smelled from afar.” [At-Tabarani] [Muslim]
“Scantily dressed women” are those who wear clothing which reveals more than it conceals, thereby increasing her attractiveness while opening the path to a host of evils.
hmm the hadith where the messenger of Allah says to "curse them for verily they are cursed" is interesting
Abu Hurairah . reported Allah’s messenger . having said this, "Two kinds of people would be in the worst situation in Hell. First, those officials who would carry with them whips looking like the tails of cows and they would use them for whipping people. Secondly, those women who would be naked despite wearing clothes (due to wearing see through and tight clothes) who would attract strangers (men) towards them and will themselves be attracted to them. Their heads will be on a side like the humps of fast camels. They will neither enter Paradise nor would they even smell the fragrance of Paradise which will reach for distances."(Abu Dawud)
How many times the Men have turned out to be Muslim approaching Muslim women who walk around uncovered
How many times I wished the brothers would lower their gaze rather than looking at that which stimulates their desire but I guess it's alot harder than it needs to be when the women walks around uncovered
that's just my view on the topic you don't have to agree with me
Also the messengoer of Allah said peace be upon him "I have not left behind any bigger temptation for the men of my ummah than that of the women"
the hadith shows you the status of a women's temptation in the eyes of a man, it's not an excuse rather a warning to the man to be careful and lower his gaze, it would be alot easier if our own sisters in faith covered up and stopped being such a big temption for the brothers.
Last edited by Salahudeen; 07-28-2009 at 05:25 AM.
it would be alot easier if our own sisters in faith covered up and stopped being such a big temption for the brothers.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts)”
[al-Noor 24:30]
So all the Men who are not following the Command of Allah
are having problems
“Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts)”
[al-Noor 24:30]
So all the Men who are not following the Command of Allah
are having problems
Yeah it wouldn't be such a big problem for them if the women covered up, it would actually make it easier to follow the command.
...you can understand all the ahdeeth and quraan first hand, and yet you stand here like this???
Those who opposed the Last Prophet ( saw) , killed his grandson ...I guess , many of them were Arabs . So , language is not the main factor . Guidance come from God only. So , let 's pray for all
Last edited by Muslim Woman; 07-29-2009 at 01:01 AM.
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
if you are in malaysia and been surrounded by them...
probably you'll be like me
you'll only say what you want to say when you want to say...huhu
25:36 And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.
well indeed..we dont know the culture she was brought up in and she might have her own reasons for not wearing hijab . what ever it is sis she surely deserves respect, regarding her not wearing hijab , thats for Allah to decide.
doing right in God's eyes isn't supposed to be easy...then everyone would be doing it!
doing right in God's eyes isn't supposed to be impossible either...then everyone would be leaving it!
Allaah has made the religion easy to follow. If he gave some laws for the man to follow, then He also gave some laws for the female to follow. So it is easy for both.
format_quote Originally Posted by zakirs
salaam everybody ,
well indeed..we dont know the culture she was brought up in and she might have her own reasons for not wearing hijab . what ever it is sis she surely deserves respect, regarding her not wearing hijab , thats for Allah to decide.
I agree that this is for Allaah to decide, but lets not forget that Allaah has also told us to enjoin the good and forbid the evil. This is a very crucial part of our deen. Our Eemaan is not complete unless we like what Allaah likes and dislikes what He dislikes. If we see someone disobeying Allaah or showing disregard to His commands, how can we respect that?
not complete unless we like what Allaah likes and dislikes what He dislikes. If we see someone disobeying Allaah or showing disregard to His commands, how can we respect that?
exaclty.. but the matter is we can explain her the things and try to show her the right path. the rest again is a decision she needs to make.Respect her not because she is great or something but its good to respect any body right ? for ex : would you respect a non-muslim elder living next door? (note:she doesnt follow allah's commands too )
PS: iam not saying to follow her , but just to respect her a person , please correct me if am wrong anywherew
Respect her not because she is great or something but its good to respect any body right ?
But how can we respect a person who calls themselves a Muslim and claims Islam to be their religion yet they do not care about and nor follow its teachings? I am not referring to those Muslims who are trying to obey Allaah and feel guilty when they do wrong, or those who are ignorant and don't know any better, but I am referring to those who show a total disregard to His command, despite knowing everything. How can we respect people like that?
i never did this before, but I thought, man your language is arabic, I am even deprived of this, you can understand all the ahdeeth and quraan first hand, and yet you stand here like this???
I'd treat them the way I would want to be treated by other sisters. I.e, with respect and courtesty as opposed to condescending or lecturing them because I can't possibly know how they feel deep down. Why? Because I've been there myself. In the first year of sixth form, I wore skinny jeans, somewhat immodest tops (but always covered by trench coat and I went to a all girls' school..alhamdullilah...although I still travelled to and fro' like that. :hm:
Ooooops, I accidentally posted it w/o finishing. Can a mod please merge them?
Anyhow, to carry on...I wanted to wear hijab deep down but I was hesitant. After my 17th birthday this year, I decided to wear full 3abaya and hijab because I felt the time had come for me to start correcting my faults, starting with the outside and working my way inwards. Those who are quick to judge, do you know how awkward and self-conscious I felt when I had to 'debut' my new look at school or the embarrassing questions I had to answer? Such as: "How can you possible enjoy it? Is it because of your dad?" It's not easy! I always used to get smiles, hellos, and good mornings from the people on my way to school but now they look down/away or grab their kids closer.
It took me 7 months to make the transition from that horrible 'clothed but not covered' look to modest clothes, alhamdullilah I love it now and it's not a decision I regret but please, cut our sisters some slack! You may have good intentions but all that condescension can be really off-putting and even hostile sometimes.
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How would you treat a non hijabi? (OP)
Quote
where he said that if u see evil stop it with your hands, if u can't stop it with hands, then stop it with your words, and if not that, then atleast think bad of it in your heart and that is the lowest of your eemaan.
Should atleast keep quiet n make them feel embarrassed.
Can a mod please merge them?
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