Imitating the kufar

^^^ukhtee...

i just don't know how to say this....

i remember there was once our prophet was wearing this new design of thoab (if i spell it right)...which originally not from the muslims... and from then onwards it becoming a trend.

Another new clothing made from the non muslims...then the prophet says it is one of the best clothing which is the trousers.

Ukhtee...lets try to learn as much as we can before we can be too decisive in a certain matter.

We must first know what is meant by imitating. I personally do not really know. Much of what I find to have the appearance of imitating is simply adaptation to meet the climate and environment.

If a pious Muslim where to go to Thule Greenland he would within minutes freeze to death if he wore the clothes he wore in Saudi. The sensible clothing would be the parkas and heavy pants of the Kufar Eskimos, is that imitating the Kufar?

Thank you both for your time

Imitating a kufar is wanting to be like them. If I see a woman nicely dressed and adorned and I wish to look like her is wrong. I should detest her ways because they are rekless.
Now, I don't know what things fall under imitating kufar. I was reading a fatwa about Muslim relations to Non-Muslims so the scholar just added a sentence that imitating them is wrong.

format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema

Thank you both for your time

Imitating a kufar is wanting to be like them. If I see a woman nicely dressed and adorned and I wish to look like her is wrong. I should detest her ways because they are rekless.
Now, I don't know what things fall under imitating kufar. I was reading a fatwa about Muslim relations to Non-Muslims so the scholar just added a sentence that imitating them is wrong.

Can it be that imitating is related to our intention for doing something? Do we eat soup with a spoon because we want to eat as the kufar do or because it is an easy and practical way? Do we fly from New York to London because it is the travel of choice by the Kufar or is it because it is the safest and fastest way to make the journey. Either of those cold be imitayting the kufar as that is the way the kufar do so, but perhaps if our intent is to simply eat soup or get to London, that may be a different view of what it is.

I must say that most of this is a scholar's own itjihad. However, there is a good evidence.Brother, we had a little issue about this a day ago. First comes Allah,subhana wa ta'ala, than Resul,saws, last, his inheritors. We do not outsmart them. We hear and obey.

Brother, you would be an angel, a melek, if all of your intentions were pure. Big sins start with the small ones. Can you always control your desires without knowing this? I don't think so.

This is information from Shaykh Saalih Al Fawzaan:

Indications Of Taking The Kuffaar As Friends (Mawlaat).

1 - Imitating them in dress and lingo...
Imitating them in dress and lingo indicates loving them, and
because imitation leads to love, the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu
'alaihi wa sallam) said:
"Whoever imitates a people is one of them."
Allaah forbids imitating the Kuffaar in their worship, traditions,
and things special to them. We should not imitate them in their
appearance and morals. Also, we should not speak their
language, except when necessary, and we should not adopt their
way of dressing and eating.

2 - Residence in their lands and not moving from their
lands to the lands of the Muslims to save one's Deen.
(This is a concise meaning of Hijrah)...
Hijrah, according to this meaning, is an obligation upon every
Muslim.
Residence in the land of the Kuffaar indicates friendship with
them. Allaah forbade the Muslims from residing in the lands of
the Kuffaar, if they are able to make Hijrah. Allaah the Exalted
said:

"When angels take the souls of those who die while
they have wronged their souls, they say, 'ln what
[state] were you?' They reply: 'We were weak and
oppressed in the earth.' [The Angels] say: "Was not
the earth of Allaah spacious enough for you to move
yourselves away [from evil]?' Such men will find
their abode in Hell, what an evil refuge! Except those
who are [really] weak and oppressed: men, women,
and children who have no means in their power, nor
can they find a way [to escape]. For these, there is
hope that Allaah will forgive, because Allaah blots out
[sins] and forgives again and again." 11

The Islaamic Law (Sharee'ah) permits people to reside in the
lands of the Kuffaar if, they give da 'wah and propagate Islaam.

3 - Travelling to the lands of the Kuffaar for tourism and
vacation...

The Sharee'ah forbids travelling to the land of the Kuffaar,
except for medical treatment, trading, and education that is only
available in their land. When the necessity has finished, then one
must return, immediately, to the land of the Muslims. Those
whom the Sharee 'ah permits to go to the land of the Kuffaar
must manifest their Deen, be away from the evil places, and be
cautious of the plotting of the enemies of Allaah. Also, the
Sharee 'ah permits going to the lands of the Kuffaar for da 'wah
and propagating Islaam.

4 - Helping them, giving them victory over the Muslims,
speaking well of them and defending their honour...
These are some of the actions that negate a person's Islaam. I
seek refuge in Allaah from that!

5 - Seeking their aid, trusting them, putting them in
positions to know the secrets of the Muslims and
making them advisors...
Allaah the Exalted said,

"O you who believe! Do not take into your
intimacy those outside your ranks. They will not
fail to corrupt you. They only desire for you to
suffer. Hatred has already appeared from their
mouths, and what their hearts conceal is far
worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if you
have wisdom. Ah! you are those who love them,
but they do not love you, though you believe in the
whole of the Book. When they meet you, they say,
"We believe,' but when they are alone, out of
frustration and rage, they bite off the tips of their
fingers because of you. Say: "Perish in your
frustration rage. Allaah knows well all of the
secrets of the heart.' If anything that is good
befalls you, it grieves them, but if some misfortune
overtakes you, they rejoice at it..."

The above verses show what is [really] in the hearts of the
Kuffaar about the Muslims, such as hatred, betrayal, evil

plotting, and the love for harm to affect them. They want harm to
reach them by any means. They use the trust of the Muslims to
plot against them. Imaam Ahmad narrated that Abu Moosa Al-
Ash'aari said,
(radhiallahu 'anhu)
"/ said to 'Umar (RAA): have a Christian (Nasrani)
clerk [employee]. He ['Umar] said: ^Why? May Allaah
fight you! Didn't you hear the saying of Allaah, the
Exalted, 'O you who believe! Do not take the Yahood
and the Nasaara for Awliyaa. They are Awliyaa to
each other...' Why don't you employ a Hanifan [a
Muslim] [as your clerk].' He [Abu Moosa] said, "O
Commander of the Believers (Ameerul-Mu'minoon), for
me is what he writes for me and to him is his Deen.' He
['Umar] said, "How can I honour them when Allaah has
humiliated them and how can I bring them near to me
when Allaah has made them far [from me]."'
Imam Ahmad and Muslim narrated that when the Messenger of
Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) went to the Battle of Badr, one of the pagans
followed him until he caught up to him at a place called Al-
Harra 1*. The pagan said,
"/ wanted to fight with you so that you can give me some
of the booty from the war." He [the Messenger of Allaah]
said, 'Do you believe in Allaah and His Messenger?'
He [the pagan] said, Wo.' He [the Messenger of Allaah]
said, 'I will never seek help from a pagan!'

The above proofs from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the
Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) forbid us from allowing the pagans to
be in positions where they can know the secrets of the

Muslims. An example of this nowadays is when a Muslim
government brought the Kuffaar to their land as laborers, drivers,
maids, and baby sitters. Their bringing these Kuffar to their land
resulted in them mixing with the Muslims.

6 - Using their calendar instead of the Islaamic
calendar and, more importantly, observing the
holidays on their calendar, like Christmas...
Their holidays, like the birthday of the Messiah ('alaihis-
salaam), are not even from their Deen, but rather they are
holidays that they innovated in their Deen. So, using their
calendar means that we share their holidays, even though these
holidays are not from the Deen of the Messiah ('alaaihis-
salaam).

To be safe from falling into sharing their holidays, in the
Caliphate of 'Umar (radhiAllaahu 'anhu), the Companions (Sahaabah) (radhiAllaahu
'anhu ajma'een) made their own calendar. They made this calendar starting
from the date of the Hijrah of the Messenger (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam)
from Makkah to Madeenah. This precedent that was established by the Sahaba
(radhiAllaahu 'anhu ajma'een) shows us that we should not use the cale ndars of
the Kuffaar or other similar things that belong to them. And
Allaah is the Best to give help.

7 - Observing their holidays or helping them to make
that celebration or congratulating them for their
holidays or just being present at their celebrations...

The scholars say about the verse, "Those who witness no
falsehood...", that the description of the worshippers of the
Most Merciful is that they do not gather at the celebrations of the
Kuffaar.

8 - Speaking well of them through what they have of
material wealth and being satisfied with their behavior
without looking at their Deen which is a false Deen...
Allaah the Exalted said:

"Nor strain your eyes [O Muhammad] in longing for
the things We have given for enjoyment to partie s of
them- the splendor of the life of this world -through
which We test them. But the provision of your Lord is
better and more lasting."

This verse does not mean that the Muslims should not acquire
the means to be strong, like manufacturing and other things that
make the economy and land strong. Nor does this verse mean
that we should not learn military tactics, but rather, we are
required to acquire all of these things. Allaah the Exalted said,

"Against them make ready your strength to the
utmost of your power..."

The high standard of living originally belongs to the Muslims.
Allaah the Exalted said,

"Say, 'Who has forbidden the beautiful [gifts] of
Allaah, which He has produced for His servants, and
the things clean and pure [which He has provided] for
sustenance?' Say, 'They are, in the life of this world,
for those who believe, and purely for them on the Day
of Judgement...'"
Also, Allaah the Exalted said,
"And He has subjected to you [as a favor from Him]
all that is in the heavens and on the earth..."
Further, Allaah the Exalted said,
"It is He Who has created for you all things that are
on earth..."
So, the duty of the Muslims is to hasten to acquire this
technology, and to surpass the Kuffaar in this technology, so that
Muslims do not need their help.

9 - Using their names...
Some of the Muslims give their children names different from
the names of their mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers,
communities, and tribes. The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam)
said,
"The best names are 'Abdur-Rahmaan and
'Abdullaah."

As a result of not using Muslim names in the past, many
Muslims now have strange names. Naming their children with
foreign names has caused a generation gap between this
generation and the last that splits families in two, with respect to
the name: those with the traditional Muslim names and those
with foreign names.

10 - Supplicating for them and being compassionate to
them...
Allaah forbade these actions by His statement,
"It is not fitting for the Messenger of Allaah and those
who believe that they should ask forgiveness for
Pagans, even though they are relatives, after it is clear
to them that they are companions of the Fire
[Jaheem]."
Supplicating and having compassion for them causes us to love
them and their [disgusting] practices.

All you wrote and quoted in this post is correct to the best of my knowledge.

format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema

I must say that most of this is a scholar's own itjihad. However, there is a good evidence.Brother, we had a little issue about this a day ago. First comes Allah,subhana wa ta'ala, than Resul,saws, last, his inheritors. We do not outsmart them. We hear and obey.

Brother, you would be an angel, a melek, if all of your intentions were pure. Big sins start with the small ones. Can you always control your desires without knowing this? I don't think so.

This is information from Shaykh Saalih Al Fawzaan:

Indications Of Taking The Kuffaar As Friends (Mawlaat).

1 - Imitating them in dress and lingo...
Imitating them in dress and lingo indicates loving them, and
because imitation leads to love, the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu
'alaihi wa sallam) said:
"Whoever imitates a people is one of them."
Allaah forbids imitating the Kuffaar in their worship, traditions,
and things special to them. We should not imitate them in their
appearance and morals. Also, we should not speak their
language, except when necessary, and we should not adopt their
way of dressing and eating.

2 - Residence in their lands and not moving from their
lands to the lands of the Muslims to save one's Deen.
(This is a concise meaning of Hijrah)...
Hijrah, according to this meaning, is an obligation upon every
Muslim.
Residence in the land of the Kuffaar indicates friendship with
them. Allaah forbade the Muslims from residing in the lands of
the Kuffaar, if they are able to make Hijrah. Allaah the Exalted
said:

"When angels take the souls of those who die while
they have wronged their souls, they say, 'ln what
[state] were you?' They reply: 'We were weak and
oppressed in the earth.' [The Angels] say: "Was not
the earth of Allaah spacious enough for you to move
yourselves away [from evil]?' Such men will find
their abode in Hell, what an evil refuge! Except those
who are [really] weak and oppressed: men, women,
and children who have no means in their power, nor
can they find a way [to escape]. For these, there is
hope that Allaah will forgive, because Allaah blots out
[sins] and forgives again and again." 11

The Islaamic Law (Sharee'ah) permits people to reside in the
lands of the Kuffaar if, they give da 'wah and propagate Islaam.

3 - Travelling to the lands of the Kuffaar for tourism and
vacation...

The Sharee'ah forbids travelling to the land of the Kuffaar,
except for medical treatment, trading, and education that is only
available in their land. When the necessity has finished, then one
must return, immediately, to the land of the Muslims. Those
whom the Sharee 'ah permits to go to the land of the Kuffaar
must manifest their Deen, be away from the evil places, and be
cautious of the plotting of the enemies of Allaah. Also, the
Sharee 'ah permits going to the lands of the Kuffaar for da 'wah
and propagating Islaam.

4 - Helping them, giving them victory over the Muslims,
speaking well of them and defending their honour...
These are some of the actions that negate a person's Islaam. I
seek refuge in Allaah from that!

5 - Seeking their aid, trusting them, putting them in
positions to know the secrets of the Muslims and
making them advisors...
Allaah the Exalted said,

"O you who believe! Do not take into your
intimacy those outside your ranks. They will not
fail to corrupt you. They only desire for you to
suffer. Hatred has already appeared from their
mouths, and what their hearts conceal is far
worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if you
have wisdom. Ah! you are those who love them,
but they do not love you, though you believe in the
whole of the Book. When they meet you, they say,
"We believe,' but when they are alone, out of
frustration and rage, they bite off the tips of their
fingers because of you. Say: "Perish in your
frustration rage. Allaah knows well all of the
secrets of the heart.' If anything that is good
befalls you, it grieves them, but if some misfortune
overtakes you, they rejoice at it..."

The above verses show what is [really] in the hearts of the
Kuffaar about the Muslims, such as hatred, betrayal, evil

plotting, and the love for harm to affect them. They want harm to
reach them by any means. They use the trust of the Muslims to
plot against them. Imaam Ahmad narrated that Abu Moosa Al-
Ash'aari said,
(radhiallahu 'anhu)
"/ said to 'Umar (RAA): have a Christian (Nasrani)
clerk [employee]. He ['Umar] said: ^Why? May Allaah
fight you! Didn't you hear the saying of Allaah, the
Exalted, 'O you who believe! Do not take the Yahood
and the Nasaara for Awliyaa. They are Awliyaa to
each other...' Why don't you employ a Hanifan [a
Muslim] [as your clerk].' He [Abu Moosa] said, "O
Commander of the Believers (Ameerul-Mu'minoon), for
me is what he writes for me and to him is his Deen.' He
['Umar] said, "How can I honour them when Allaah has
humiliated them and how can I bring them near to me
when Allaah has made them far [from me]."'
Imam Ahmad and Muslim narrated that when the Messenger of
Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) went to the Battle of Badr, one of the pagans
followed him until he caught up to him at a place called Al-
Harra 1*. The pagan said,
"/ wanted to fight with you so that you can give me some
of the booty from the war." He [the Messenger of Allaah]
said, 'Do you believe in Allaah and His Messenger?'
He [the pagan] said, Wo.' He [the Messenger of Allaah]
said, 'I will never seek help from a pagan!'

The above proofs from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the
Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) forbid us from allowing the pagans to
be in positions where they can know the secrets of the

Muslims. An example of this nowadays is when a Muslim
government brought the Kuffaar to their land as laborers, drivers,
maids, and baby sitters. Their bringing these Kuffar to their land
resulted in them mixing with the Muslims.

6 - Using their calendar instead of the Islaamic
calendar and, more importantly, observing the
holidays on their calendar, like Christmas...
Their holidays, like the birthday of the Messiah ('alaihis-
salaam), are not even from their Deen, but rather they are
holidays that they innovated in their Deen. So, using their
calendar means that we share their holidays, even though these
holidays are not from the Deen of the Messiah ('alaaihis-
salaam).

To be safe from falling into sharing their holidays, in the
Caliphate of 'Umar (radhiAllaahu 'anhu), the Companions (Sahaabah) (radhiAllaahu
'anhu ajma'een) made their own calendar. They made this calendar starting
from the date of the Hijrah of the Messenger (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam)
from Makkah to Madeenah. This precedent that was established by the Sahaba
(radhiAllaahu 'anhu ajma'een) shows us that we should not use the cale ndars of
the Kuffaar or other similar things that belong to them. And
Allaah is the Best to give help.

7 - Observing their holidays or helping them to make
that celebration or congratulating them for their
holidays or just being present at their celebrations...

The scholars say about the verse, "Those who witness no
falsehood...", that the description of the worshippers of the
Most Merciful is that they do not gather at the celebrations of the
Kuffaar.

8 - Speaking well of them through what they have of
material wealth and being satisfied with their behavior
without looking at their Deen which is a false Deen...
Allaah the Exalted said:

"Nor strain your eyes [O Muhammad] in longing for
the things We have given for enjoyment to partie s of
them- the splendor of the life of this world -through
which We test them. But the provision of your Lord is
better and more lasting."

This verse does not mean that the Muslims should not acquire
the means to be strong, like manufacturing and other things that
make the economy and land strong. Nor does this verse mean
that we should not learn military tactics, but rather, we are
required to acquire all of these things. Allaah the Exalted said,

"Against them make ready your strength to the
utmost of your power..."

The high standard of living originally belongs to the Muslims.
Allaah the Exalted said,

"Say, 'Who has forbidden the beautiful [gifts] of
Allaah, which He has produced for His servants, and
the things clean and pure [which He has provided] for
sustenance?' Say, 'They are, in the life of this world,
for those who believe, and purely for them on the Day
of Judgement...'"
Also, Allaah the Exalted said,
"And He has subjected to you [as a favor from Him]
all that is in the heavens and on the earth..."
Further, Allaah the Exalted said,
"It is He Who has created for you all things that are
on earth..."
So, the duty of the Muslims is to hasten to acquire this
technology, and to surpass the Kuffaar in this technology, so that
Muslims do not need their help.

9 - Using their names...
Some of the Muslims give their children names different from
the names of their mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers,
communities, and tribes. The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam)
said,
"The best names are 'Abdur-Rahmaan and
'Abdullaah."

As a result of not using Muslim names in the past, many
Muslims now have strange names. Naming their children with
foreign names has caused a generation gap between this
generation and the last that splits families in two, with respect to
the name: those with the traditional Muslim names and those
with foreign names.

10 - Supplicating for them and being compassionate to
them...
Allaah forbade these actions by His statement,
"It is not fitting for the Messenger of Allaah and those
who believe that they should ask forgiveness for
Pagans, even though they are relatives, after it is clear
to them that they are companions of the Fire
[Jaheem]."
Supplicating and having compassion for them causes us to love
them and their [disgusting] practices.

But none of that except for:

1 - Imitating them in dress and lingo...
Imitating them in dress and lingo indicates loving them, and
because imitation leads to love, the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu
'alaihi wa sallam) said:
"Whoever imitates a people is one of them."
Allaah forbids imitating the Kuffaar in their worship, traditions,
and things special to them. We should not imitate them in their
appearance and morals. Also, we should not speak their
language, except when necessary, and we should not adopt their
way of dressing and eating.

Offers any guidance as to what imitating the Kufar is. Now in that this much seems to be indisputable:

Allaah forbids imitating the Kuffaar in their worship, traditions,
and things special to them

This is not quite as clear cut:

Also, we should not speak their
language, except when necessary,

How can that be avoided by reverts who only speak the language of the Kufar they came from? Come to think of it-- How about if nobody else speaks Arabic where you live? I am probably the only person in North Dakota who speaks Arabic. How would I speak with most of the members on this forum if I did not speak the Kufar language of English

Now in this part:

and we should not adopt their
way of dressing and eating.

What if we are living in a Hindu section of India in which Muslims can easily be mistaken for Hindu as the clothing is very similar? Or how about if we are in Israel among the Jews as our eating guidelines are virtually identical? To an outsider it would appear we are imitating our kufr neighbors.

If we do not know what is in a Muslims intent in either of those cases do we have any way of knowing if he is trying to be a good Muslim or if he is actually a non-practicing Muslim trying to imitate his neighbors

I will say I can not say for certain I know what Imitating the Kufar is outside of thinking it is "the person is intending to be like them."

This goes for both of you:

156. Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Stay with what I have left you [without asking more]. Those before you were destroyed by their excessive questioning and disagreeing with their Prophets. When I forbid you to do something, avoid it, and when I command you to do something, do it as much as you are able." [Agreed upon]

Abu Nujayh al-'Irbad ibn Sariya said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, gave us a profound exhortation which made our hearts afraid and our eyes weep. We said, 'O Messenger of Allah, it is an exhortation which is as if it were bidding us farewell, so advise us. He said, 'I commend you to be fearful of Allah and to hear and obey, even if an [Abyssinian] slave is put in command over you. Any among you who live will see much disagreement, so you must hold to my Sunna and the Sunna of the rightly-guided and guiding khalifs. Hold onto it with your teeth. Beware of new matters. Every innovation is misguidance." [Abu Dawud and at-Tirmidhi]

You might say: "The scholar just added his own restrictions." No, he is advizing us to avoid falling into a sin.

In order to not cause fitna, we stay home. For this, its the same.

We should try our best to satisfy Allah while trying and avoiding everything that disatisfies Him.

format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema

This goes for both of you:

156. Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Stay with what I have left you [without asking more]. Those before you were destroyed by their excessive questioning and disagreeing with their Prophets. When I forbid you to do something, avoid it, and when I command you to do something, do it as much as you are able." [Agreed upon]

Abu Nujayh al-'Irbad ibn Sariya said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, gave us a profound exhortation which made our hearts afraid and our eyes weep. We said, 'O Messenger of Allah, it is an exhortation which is as if it were bidding us farewell, so advise us. He said, 'I commend you to be fearful of Allah and to hear and obey, even if an [Abyssinian] slave is put in command over you. Any among you who live will see much disagreement, so you must hold to my Sunna and the Sunna of the rightly-guided and guiding khalifs. Hold onto it with your teeth. Beware of new matters. Every innovation is misguidance." [Abu Dawud and at-Tirmidhi]

You might say: "The scholar just added his own restrictions." No, he is advizing us to avoid falling into a sin.

In order to not cause fitna, we stay home. For this, its the same.

We should try our best to satisfy Allah while trying and avoiding everything that disatisfies Him.

Ukhti,

We seem to be having a loss of communication. I am not disagreeing with any of what you quote. I am asking for clarification as to what constitutes imitating the Kufar. Does that mean anytime we do anything that is commonly done by the Kufar? One issue comes to mind the Amish women in this area dress nearly identical to the sunnah dress. My wife is often mistaken for being Amish because she wears the hijab which Amish women also wear.

format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow

Can it be that imitating is related to our intention for doing something? Do we eat soup with a spoon because we want to eat as the kufar do or because it is an easy and practical way? Do we fly from New York to London because it is the travel of choice by the Kufar or is it because it is the safest and fastest way to make the journey. Either of those cold be imitayting the kufar as that is the way the kufar do so, but perhaps if our intent is to simply eat soup or get to London, that may be a different view of what it is.

Interesting point, Woodrow.
I agree that intention is probably at the heart of this.

To look at the argument from another perspective (which I find useful quite often), imitating Muslims does not make me a Muslim, does it?
I can give up pork, fast, even wear hijab ... but none of those things - although part of Islamic practice - make me a Muslim, unless I add to the actions the intentions and the thought processes and beliefs which 'make me a Muslim on the inside'.
What do you think?

format_quote Originally Posted by glo

Interesting point, Woodrow.
I agree that intention is probably at the heart of this.

To look at the argument from another perspective (which I find useful quite often), imitating Muslims does not make me a Muslim, does it?
I can give up pork, fast, even wear hijab ... but none of those things - although part of Islamic practice - make me a Muslim, unless I add to the actions the intentions and the thought processes and beliefs which 'make me a Muslim on the inside'.
What do you think?

Glo, I don't mean to pick on you but it is the best for non-Muslims to start a thread and ask about this stuff if you think its too harsh or something.

And, in Islam we do not judge people by their appearance as you make it seem like. If I dressed like a kaffirah and in my heart I believed that there is only one God and that Muhammad is His messenger,truly, I would still be a Muslim. Intention in Islam is something very important. I f I prayed 17 times a day and my intentions were not IN THE NAME OF ALLAH all of my deeds would be void.The Prophet,saws, said that "deeds are by intention". Please check out th efollowing thread:http://www.islamicboard.com/worship-...o-worship.html

You know an actor Jim Carry? He kept acting the way he did untill he became the way he acted. Even his wife divorced him because his behaviour was that of his movies.

format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema

Glo, I don't mean to pick on you but it is the best for non-Muslims to start a thread and ask about this stuff if you think its too harsh or something.

And, in Islam we do not judge people by their appearance as you make it seem like. If I dressed like a kaffirah and in my heart I believed that there is only one God and that Muhammad is His messenger,truly, I would still be a Muslim. Intention in Islam is something very important. If I prayed 17 times a day and my intentions were not IN THE NAME OF ALLAH all of my deeds would be void.The Prophet,saws, said that "deeds are by intention".

Hi Rasema

I think you misunderstood my post.

I neither said that the Islamic practices I mentioned (avoiding pork, fasting, wearing hijab) are too harsh, nor did I imply that Muslims judge people by their appearance.

In fact, I am agreeing with you. Being a Muslim is first and foremost a decision one makes insides one's heart. The actions alone do not make a Muslim.
Your sentence, which I highlighted in red, completely mirrors what I said in my previous post.
As a non-Muslim I can carry out all these actions, and yet not be a Muslim at all ...

Similarly, I would say that as a Muslim you can imitate kufar things (as long as they don't contradict your Islamic teachings) without having to fear that you somehow become a non-believer.
Do you agree?

I hope that makes my thoughts a little clearer.

As for starting a thread to ask things about Islam, I do that quite often too.
But on this occasion I was expressing my own thoughts and opinions. I hope that is okay.

I neither said that the Islamic practices I mentioned (avoiding pork, fasting, wearing hijab) are too harsh, nor did I imply that Muslims judge people by their appearance.

I meant that if you think the scholars fatwa was harsh that you should ask someone with knowledge, above mine, about it.

I hope that makes my thoughts a little clearer.

Well, I'd like to be realistic. You can't give an example: If I wore the hijab and followed most of the commands of Islam and my intentions we're not "In the name of Allah" I wouldn't be a Muslim. Sorry if I misunderstood your example. But you would then follow those commands for some reason and that reason would not be that you desired to follow those commands. If you do desire these commands then that is what God does to those He chooses to giude.

The raeson the scholars don't want us to follow the example of non-Muslims. Not just non-,uslims but anybody who is dressed in a way that would cause attention... you know what I mean.
Best wishes on this life and the hereafter.

format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema

Akhi I'm sorry

I don't know. I'd say(just my opinion) that scholars just don't want us to imitate something that is forbidden under Islam, I guess. Like jeans( if you don't wear a dress over,or something) etc...

InshAllah, someone knowledgeable helps you brother.

I think you are going to find that quite often we and the kufar do very similar things. It is not done with the intent for either to imitate the other, it is simply mutual adaptation of the same materials. Eating for example, nearly all foods eaten in the mid-eastern and Asian Islamic countries is derived from the food of Hindu India or pre-Islamic Turkey.

Surprisingly many foods now eaten through out the Islamic world had their origins in Kufar lands. For example do you know where Tomatoes, corn, potatoes, chile peppers, and many others originated? They all came from South America (a Kufar land) Muslims do not eat them to imitate the kufar, although they were initially eaten by the kufar. Can you or anybody else name any food that is specifically Muslim? We can name what foods are haram, but does that mean a vegetable from a kufar land is forbidden because to eat it is imitating the eating of what the kufar eat?

I think the intent of why we do something makes the difference between imitating and similarity. We do have many similarities with some kufar, but that does not mean we are imitating them.

Brother, I'm not saying that you're intention is to imitate them. This is why the scholars are telling us to not imitate them because you would imitate them without knowing. It would lead us away from the sunna. Similarity is imitating, very close at least.

I have read by the scholar that it is not haram to eat with a fork for example, but it is sunna to eat with 3 fingers. Soon, we're all going to be greeting eachother with a 'hello'. Perfect example in the previous post. Sorry it just fitted with examples.

It'll be hard for those who is working in the farm...not wearing jeans huhuhu