Before I discovered Islam and wanted to revert, I was seriously considering a career as a professional singer. It is my dream to become a singer and Allah gave me a beautiful voice. I was wondering if, as a Muslim, I could still pursue this career? Or would that be haraam?
Also, about musical instruments. I play the violin and I hear that musical instruments are less permissible than vocal music. Is this true? I want to become a Muslim but I don't want to quit playing the violin. Please help!
I'm genuinely short on time at the moment, but I hope a few brief points will suffice in response:
1. Although I referred to this as a research paper (the sites hosts a number of research papers on various topics), this particular series of articles appears more likely to me to be a translation of a book or essay on the topic from the original Arabic.....
This post links with #43, 73 and 76 and refers to links to research papers on the music issue. I have viewed the video of Dr Brown on hadith science and before I ask questions about the 4 papers I will review what In have learned on Hadith issues as I do not want to make a mistake.
All religions have to decide what is legitimate and what is not thus the purpose of Hadith is to tell you what the prophet believed and what he did. There are three types of Hadith: sayings, actions and things done/said in his presence to which he did not object. There are two parts to a Hadith: the isnad and the text plus Brown suggests we could add a third that of interpretation. Some Hadith are regarded as 'elevated' meaning it starts with the prophet. The Basic rule is that if the prophet said or did something it must be true/right with the sira often giving the context of a saying or a revelation.
In the early days there were little in the way of written records and it was all in the minds of the followers so nothing written remains. Early collections were mostly about the meaning of words and only later were interpretations added. The first formal collection were around 800 CE, some considerable time after the death of the prophet and these hadith tended to be only things related to the prophet though there are other things that became cultural norms where most of the Ummah agreed.
From all this we get three basic categories: Forbidden, Allowed and optional where contradictory accounts occurred where the prophet said one thing one day and something different ion another day. The transmitter characteristics: continuity of the chain of transmitters (ittisal assanad), The integrity ('adalah) of the transmitters, soundness of memory of the transmitters and Conformity of the Hadith.
That is a quick summary of the video (which last 58 minutes).
My questions on this science:
Firstly, it seems circular in that it depends on the transmitters but their integrity is vouched by other transmitters although there is a separate biographical science tat covers this but it does look a weakness though nothing much can be done. Secondly, everything is reduced to just Mohammed and two question (for me) arise here: is he the only possible person that could say or do some good things (surely other could say and do things just as good) and so my problem is how one guards against idolatry here. Finally, I could not find anything in the talk as a means of validating what was actually said - if the Haith is authentic then I have no difficulty accepting that Mohammed said something but I do find it hard to see how what he said must necessarily be true. For example, Dr Brown gave a few examples about the heavens and I could not see how in any way such saying could be checked?
You've raised some questions about hadeeth science which probably require more than a short response. So as not to divert the thread from it's original topic (although I can see how it is related), I would suggest writing this post in a new thread because it could take a while to clarify e.g. if you want to ask follow up questions. If and when the question is resolved, we can always come back here to continue discussing the papers. Does that seem fair?
I have an exam tomorrow, but I'll see if I can come back and respond some time after that.
"I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."
Be away for a few days but now would like to make some comments. I have spent quite some time reading the hadith on the Music issue and other opinions. If we focus on argument not dogma here there seem to be 4 suggested reasons for declaring music forbidden (though you will not find them all in the hadith):
Effects the emotions, Might lead to bad things or situations (this is by far the most common), Might distract or stop a persons devotions; prayers and reading
Effects the brain
Of course I understand that one needs principles for living but what I find uncomfortable, very uncomfortable is the notion of deriving principles solely by what one man, Mohammed, said or did without as far as I can see (and I am new to all this) any rational discourse beyond that and someone will have to explain to me why it is not idolatry. However, I can say fairly certainly that the 4 reasons listed above are true but I can also list 101 other things that do all of these so I can find no logic in singling out Music. For example, books have had massive effect on human society: consider Mine Kampf or the writings of Plato or Karl Marks creating effects way beyond anything attributable to Music. Now it is without doubt true that the prophet of Islam and the companions had a very limited experience of what the world is like being confined to a desert existence. So other than through stories there is no way any of these people could know about the enormous range of flowers, forests, mountains streams, rivers, storms, clouds and rain, birds and animals, people and cultures and so on. In today's world there are many thousands of music styles and if one includes sub-styles its probably hundreds of thousands: Acapella, opera, jazz, blues, classical, soul, heavy metal... the list is endless. Coupled with that there are thousands of different instruments: trumpet, piano, harp, viola, organ and so on. It follows that trusting what your early farther of the faith say about things they could not possibly know anything about would be unsafe and unwise.
I have a few other things to say but I will leave you with some questions:
1. Is it true that 'GOOD' is defined by what Mohammed said or did, no need for rationalisation, no discussion of what values might be involved or consider that others might have said and done good things?
2. Birds sing, and it is possible to write down using musical notation exactly what they sing and there are hundreds of pieces that do just that. That is how God created them and those who accept this ban are in effect saying that bird song must not be listened to because it is evil?
3. When I was at school (long time ago) we used to every Wednesday sing Psalm 150 which mentions praising God using trumpets, lute, lyre, drum, strings, pipe, cymbals! Why would God changes his mind on this and surely there is more than one way to praise God?
Of course I understand that one needs principles for living but what I find uncomfortable, very uncomfortable is the notion of deriving principles solely by what one man, Mohammed, said or did without as far as I can see (and I am new to all this) any rational discourse beyond that and someone will have to explain to me why it is not idolatry.
Firstly..Idoltry-worshipping idols from my understanding..Muhammad (pbuh) is meant to be a perfect rolemodel for mankind..though you may have your difficulties in understanding this..
We as muslims do not worship Muhammad (pbuh), but we do follow him.
Whatever he did in life, how he dealt with situations hardships or happiness, he was the best in all, and so the Qur'aan talks about the character of Muhammad (pbuh)
"And verily, you (O Muhammad SAW) are on an exalted standard of character."[ Al Qur'aan 68:4]
"Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much." [Al Qur'aan 33:21]
We respect him so we say peace and blessing of Allaah be unto him after we mention his blessed name, we do the same with every other prophet of God.
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
However, I can say fairly certainly that the 4 reasons listed above are true but I can also list 101 other things that do all of these so I can find no logic in singling out Music. For example, books have had massive effect on human society: consider Mine Kampf or the writings of Plato or Karl Marks creating effects way beyond anything attributable to Music.
Can you mention the other things that list 101 reasons that do these? and who said as muslims we dont signle out other things that lead one astray?
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
Now it is without doubt true that the prophet of Islam and the companions had a very limited experience of what the world is like being confined to a desert existence. So other than through stories there is no way any of these people could know about the enormous range of flowers, forests, mountains streams, rivers, storms, clouds and rain, birds and animals, people and cultures and so on.
They may not, but their creator who created these various range of things did know, because he is the one who created it.
Have you read about the life of the prophet Muhamamd (pbuh)? and also have you read the Qur'aan?
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
In today's world there are many thousands of music styles and if one includes sub-styles its probably hundreds of thousands: Acapella, opera, jazz, blues, classical, soul, heavy metal... the list is endless. Coupled with that there are thousands of different instruments: trumpet, piano, harp, viola, organ and so on. It follows that trusting what your early farther of the faith say about things they could not possibly know anything about would be unsafe and unwise.
There is a hadeeth that makes it clear that instruments were made lawful when in actual they are unlawful..it doesnt matter what genre or music type it is, it is all music and consists of one category - music.
I dont understand what a few musical instruments contain within them that once someone plays them or listens to them suddently becomes wise either.
If you believe in God and realise that whatever he permitted for us i.e humankind is good for us and whatever he forbade us is bad for us and you would follow that path knowing it is the straight path, then certainly you are wrong in saying that the one who God sent as his messenger isnt wise. rather ofcourse it is wise.
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
1. Is it true that 'GOOD' is defined by what Mohammed said or did, no need for rationalisation, no discussion of what values might be involved or consider that others might have said and done good things?
Yes, whatever the Prophet (pbuh) did was good, because he stayed and taught to stay away from bad, stay away from that which harms one. Whatever which is considered lawful and unlawful is mentioned in the Qur'aan, the Prophet was the guide.
The Qur'aan teaches us to stay away from something bad that actually 'leads' to bad i.e the first step.
I hope someone can give you a better answer than mine..
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
2. Birds sing, and it is possible to write down using musical notation exactly what they sing and there are hundreds of pieces that do just that. That is how God created them and those who accept this ban are in effect saying that bird song must not be listened to because it is evil?
Bird song is natural it isnt considered as evil nor wrong.
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
3. When I was at school (long time ago) we used to every Wednesday sing Psalm 150 which mentions praising God using trumpets, lute, lyre, drum, strings, pipe, cymbals! Why would God changes his mind on this and surely there is more than one way to praise God?
Im interested to know, did God command you to praise him with musical instruments?
God doesnt change his mind, through all his scriptures he asked to be worshipped alone without partners, this in accordance to the Qur'aan...
Yes, certainly there may be many ways to praise God, but if its according to how he prescribed..
.. peace ..
Last edited by Ğħαrєєвαħ; 06-18-2011 at 09:18 PM.
"Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), Al-Hayyul-Qayyum (the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists).".."[Al Qur'aan 3:2]
Firstly..Idoltry-worshipping idols from my understanding.. Muhammad (pbuh) is meant to be a perfect rolemodel for mankind..though you may have your difficulties in understanding this.. We as muslims do not worship Muhammad (pbuh), but we do follow him.
I think after reading through various posting and articles I appreciate how you see Mohammed but in my reading I have also come across saying and actions of your prophet that seem to me reprehensible, quite wrong. Here is not the place to rehears such matters though. I might add here that I have a lot of difficulty with a verse like
"And verily, you (O Muhammad SAW) are on an exalted standard of character."[ Al Qur'aan 68:4] because we only know it because your prophet told us so its all a bit circular.
Can you mention the other things that list 101 reasons that do these? and who said as muslims we dont signle out other things that lead one astray?
Well I will refrain from mentioning 101 things. But if we take the argument that Music is wrong because it distracts from reading the Qu'ran, then it is obvious that books, football, TV, friends, food, etc can all do that but none (as far as I know) of these are banned. By the way I have read the Qu'ran (Dawood and Arberry) plus a biography or two. But surely, if God created things that must include Music and therefore it must be good?
There is a hadeeth that makes it clear that instruments were made lawful when in actual they are unlawful..it doesnt matter what genre or music type it is, it is all music and consists of one category - music.
I cannot quote make sense of this lawful/unlawful. But later I will post my thoughts on the three papers cited by Uthman. I think also you misunderstood what I was saying, I did not say that Music make you wise, I said that trusting judgements made by men with very limited knowledge of music is unwise
Bird song is natural it isnt considered as evil nor wrong.
But it is Music and the ban appears to be for all Music but more importantly, why is it natural for a bird to sing but not for a human?
Im interested to know, did God command you to praise him with musical instruments? God doesnt change his mind, through all his scriptures he asked to be worshipped alone without partners, this in accordance to the Qur'aan...
Well Psalm 150 make it plain as plain can be that everything should be used to praise God - if you read it you will see that for yourself. I think the implication of that Psalm is that you can praise God silently in your heart but sometimes one can be so overcome with thankfulness and worship you simply have to sing it out.
I think after reading through various posting and articles I appreciate how you see Mohammed but in my reading I have also come across saying and actions of your prophet that seem to me reprehensible, quite wrong. Here is not the place to rehears such matters though. I might add here that I have a lot of difficulty with a verse like
"And verily, you (O Muhammad SAW) are on an exalted standard of character."[ Al Qur'aan 68:4] because we only know it because your prophet told us so its all a bit circular.
The verse I posted is posted from the Qur'aan...can i know the source for the 'reprehensible' stuff you read in regards to the Prophet (pbuh) insha'Allaah..
Keep in mind I never said the Prophet told us so..but because the Qur'aan told us so.
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
Well I will refrain from mentioning 101 things. But if we take the argument that Music is wrong because it distracts from reading the Qu'ran, then it is obvious that books, football, TV, friends, food, etc can all do that but none (as far as I know) of these are banned. By the way I have read the Qu'ran (Dawood and Arberry) plus a biography or two. But surely, if God created things that must include Music and therefore it must be good?
Yes, books, football, Tv, friends, food can all be put in this category..and as I mentioned, Islaam doesnt single these issues out when leading one astray..
Let me give you an example..A muslim is required to lower their gaze, so if this muslim went to a football match I would assume it would be difficult to lower ones gaze. And watching some few guys kicking a ball around on a field with people screaming around you isnt exactly the most beneficial thing for a muslim to be doing. so rather the muslim would be adviced to something that is beneficial..As muslims we are aware that death can take over an individual at any moment of their life, the individual isnt aware of this no matter how healthy or young they think they are..that we use our time more usefully and that we do not waste our time. It is that we use it wisely.
Narrated Abdullah Bin Mas`ud Allah's Messenger (PBUH) said:
"A man shall be asked concerning five things on the day of resurrection: concerning his life, how he spent it; concerning his youth, how he grew old; concerning his wealth, whence he acquired it, and in what way he spent it; and what was it that he did with the knowledge that he had."
Have you read surah Al Asr (The time) the chapter in the noble Qur'aan?
"By Al-'Asr (the time).Verily! Man is in loss,Except those who believe (in Islamic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, and recommend one another to the truth (i.e. order one another to perform all kinds of good deeds (Al-Ma'ruf)which Allah has ordained, and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds (Al-Munkar)which Allah has forbidden), and recommend one another to patience (for the sufferings, harms, and injuries which one may encounter in Allah\'s Cause during preaching His religion of Islamic Monotheism or Jihad, etc.)." [Al Qur'aan 103:1-3]
God created music? im not so sure I can agree upon that.
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
I cannot quote make sense of this lawful/unlawful. But later I will post my thoughts on the three papers cited by Uthman. I think also you misunderstood what I was saying, I did not say that Music make you wise, I said that trusting judgements made by men with very limited knowledge of music is unwise
Lawful-permissable..unlawful-forbidden.
I meant to say music doesnt make one wise because i believe that, same way you mentioned something without knowledge and only because you believe it or have heard of it.
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
But it is Music and the ban appears to be for all Music but more importantly, why is it natural for a bird to sing but not for a human?
I remember reading somewhere that the singing of birds, the rustling of the trees, the sounds of waves in the ocean as defined as sounds of nature, it is not classed as 'music', the same way the recitation of the Qur'aan isnt musical nor music. we dont regard nature as a sin, but if we see from our own human natural desires if we do not control them it will lead us to sin.
It is encouraged that we muslims recite the Qur'aan in a beautiful way, this is also a natural sound. Even as far as I am aware the prophet David (as) had a beautiful voice.
but as far as for instruments they are considered to be unlawful..
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
Well Psalm 150 make it plain as plain can be that everything should be used to praise God - if you read it you will see that for yourself. I think the implication of that Psalm is that you can praise God silently in your heart but sometimes one can be so overcome with thankfulness and worship you simply have to sing it out.
I personally do not disagree with praising God.
but singing it out is something i most certainly disagree with, being the servant of the most high I can praise him in my heart, I know that wherever I will be he will be listening to me. As a christian are you not required to follow Jesus (pbuh)? or I am incorrect in saying you are a christian?
Singing in loud voices including some beat to the song as in instruments being involved and dancing to God to praise him i find really disturbing..
I apologise if I have offended you but I am merely speaking from what I personally believe from my ownself.
Last edited by Ğħαrєєвαħ; 06-19-2011 at 12:12 AM.
"Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), Al-Hayyul-Qayyum (the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists).".."[Al Qur'aan 3:2]
The verse I posted is posted from the Qur'aan...can i know the source for the 'reprehensible' stuff you read in regards to the Prophet (pbuh) insha'Allaah..
Well I am reluctant to do this as I don't want to offend anyone. But I recently came across the case of Safiah, the Jewish wife of your prophet and I read that Mohammed consummated the marriage on the same day that he had killed/murdered her husband, father and brother. I cannot see how such a marriage was legitimate and try though I may I cannot see an ounce of compassion in this action. I have read a number of hadith (but I don't know how to be sure I have read them all) and looked at Bassam Zawadi's article at http://www.answering-christianity.co...he_prophet.htm but to me he seems to just sidestep the issues.
Let me give you an example..A muslim is required to lower their gaze, so if this muslim went to a football match I would assume it would be difficult to lower ones gaze. And watching some few guys kicking a ball around on a field with people screaming around you isnt exactly the most beneficial thing for a muslim to be doing. so rather the muslim would be adviced to something that is beneficial..As muslims we are aware that death can take over an individual at any moment of their life, the individual isnt aware of this no matter how healthy or young they think they are..that we use our time more usefully and that we do not waste our time. It is that we use it wisely.
I see your point and have some sympathy with it but it does feel as if having any 'fun' is not allowed and one wonders if you take it too far one ends up creating a wilderness of misery because fun, joy is not allowed and hate because almost everything you see looks wrong in others?
Have you read surah Al Asr (The time)The chapter in the noble Qur'aan? "By Al-'Asr (the time).Verily! Man is in loss,Except those who believe (in Islamic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, and recommend one another to the truth (i.e. order one another to perform all kinds of good deeds (Al-Ma'ruf)which Allah has ordained, and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds (Al-Munkar)which Allah has forbidden), and recommend one another to patience (for the sufferings, harms, and injuries which one may encounter in Allah\'s Cause during preaching His religion of Islamic Monotheism or Jihad, etc.)." [Al Qur'aan 103:1-3]
Well I have now and I feel some agreement with it though I cannot subscribe to the notion that it must be Islam. I suppose what bothers me is what it means when it speaks of 'good deeds' as that seems not to be defined by any set of values but by what you prophet said or did. My point is I suppose that I don't need to Qu'ran or your prophet to tell me that I should help those in difficulty, ease the pain of someone who is suffering, relieve the oppressed or deny that Mozart's piano concert no 20 is a priceless beauty.
God created music? im not so sure I can agree upon that.
Bird song is music and surely God must have created that? Of course if you wish you can decide that it is not music but by the same token I can decide that the beautiful piano prelude no 9 by Cui is not music and declare it allowed - we have to be consistent. Of course I agree with you that things, any things can lead us into sin as you call it - even the Qu'ran - can you see that it would be possible to misuse what it says so that you or me can do what we like?
It is encouraged that we muslims recite the Qur'aan in a beautiful way, this is also a natural sound. Even as far as I am aware the prophet David (as) had a beautiful voice. but as far as for instruments they are considered to be unlawful..
I suppose this is where we get into difficulties as all music lovers regard the voice as an instrument - I shall say more on this in a later post.
but singing it out is something i most certainly disagree with, being the servant of the most high I can praise him in my heart, I know that wherever I will be he will be listening to me. As a Christian are you not required to follow Jesus (pbuh)? or I am incorrect in saying you are a Christian? Singing in loud voices including some beat to the song as in instruments being involved and dancing to God to praise him i find really disturbing..
That is fine but it is only your view and I quite understand that you may find quiet the thing for you - but would you deny the joy of praising God aloud and in Music to others is what really matters here? I have heard the Qu'ran recited a few time and to me it does not sound beautiful, it sounds monotone and bland - now that might just be me as I come from a land where song and singing is part of my very nature. Now if I were a Christian I imagine that there would be times when when I would want silence, praise as you say in the heart but I cannot even imagine that there would never be other times that I might not want to sing at the top of my voice.
Like you, I apologise if I have offended you but I am merely speaking from what I personally believe from my own self.
Well I am reluctant to do this as I don't want to offend anyone. But I recently came across the case of Safiah, the Jewish wife of your prophet and I read that Mohammed consummated the marriage on the same day that he had killed/murdered her husband, father and brother. I cannot see how such a marriage was legitimate and try though I may I cannot see an ounce of compassion in this action. I have read a number of hadith (but I don't know how to be sure I have read them all) and looked at Bassam Zawadi's article at http://www.answering-christianity.co...he_prophet.htm but to me he seems to just sidestep the issues.
Did you not read the article that you posted? The fact is it is mentioned in the article that she was angry as would any other women, but the fact is also when someone is going to force to fight with you one would do so with defence.
I am not going to completely answer this Question of yours, because I have not much knowledge of this topic and from my view nor have you, so this topic is one you and I should gain more knowledge and understanding from..
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
I see your point and have some sympathy with it but it does feel as if having any 'fun' is not allowed and one wonders if you take it too far one ends up creating a wilderness of misery because fun, joy is not allowed and hate because almost everything you see looks wrong in others?
There is fun in Islaam, but there are limits.. You do realise a billion years ago they never had any of this you listed..
When I mentioned in regards to football I am referring to everything you mentioned...I never said playing football is wrong nor did I say that some guys watching their guy friends playing football is wrong either..The point of my post was that one should refrain from attending events that would be of no good in real sense. Like if there is a place raving with fitnah, then it is advised to refrain from going ..in other words one would try their best to stay away from the bad as much as possible, keep in mind I am aware living in the west it is difficult to avoid such things on a normal basis such as for example, for men and women it is required to lower their gaze, now with women and men every where on the street on the path wherever, this would ofcourse be diffiucult..but when one who wants to get closer to his lord will follow his commands to the best of his ability, even Allaah mentions in the Qur'aan "No soul bears a burden more than it can handle". so one will strive to the best, there is no harm in doing that?
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
Well I have now and I feel some agreement with it though I cannot subscribe to the notion that it must be Islam. I suppose what bothers me is what it means when it speaks of 'good deeds' as that seems not to be defined by any set of values but by what you prophet said or did. My point is I suppose that I don't need to Qu'ran or your prophet to tell me that I should help those in difficulty, ease the pain of someone who is suffering, relieve the oppressed or deny that Mozart's piano concert no 20 is a priceless beauty.
The Prophet was an example, a rolemodel, now we cannot be completely perfect like him or any of the prophets, but what we can do good with good intentions. It is God who commanded man to do good and forbid the evil no doubt I am sure you are aware of this also..God sent his messenger for our guidance..whatever he did follow it so that you may suceed..
For every every messenger that was sent to every nation, they all commanded good to their people and taught to stay away from that which is harmful..
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
Bird song is music and surely God must have created that? Of course if you wish you can decide that it is not music but by the same token I can decide that the beautiful piano prelude no 9 by Cui is not music and declare it allowed - we have to be consistent. Of course I agree with you that things, any things can lead us into sin as you call it - even the Qu'ran - can you see that it would be possible to misuse what it says so that you or me can do what we like?
From my understanding if bird humming is classed as music so would be the Qur'aan..but unfortunately this is incorrect Qur'aan simply means the recitation..for that which contains musical instruments, with a tune, beat, whatever is music, im not sure exactly what your defintion is..
Do you know an Acappella is simply singing with ones voice and not music, but adding to it would definetly rule it as music. Consistency is ofcourse vital..keep in mind the recitation of the Qur'aan is a sound recited by a human yet its not classed as a sin nor use..
To misuse what it says is a sin, to mis-interpret the Qur'aanic words is impossible, if one does they are wronging themselves because they are making up stuff about the Qur'aan, adding or lying about the book this is no way is acceptable, one is not required to take knowledge blindy, but rather seek knowledge.
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
I suppose this is where we get into difficulties as all music lovers regard the voice as an instrument - I shall say more on this in a later post.
Let me tell you I was once a 'music lover' I would love to hear what you have to say.
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
That is fine but it is only your view and I quite understand that may find quiet the think for you - but would you deny the joy of praising God aloud and in Music to others. I have heard the Qu'ran recited a few time and to me it does not sound beauty full, it sounds monotone and bland - now that might just be me as I come from a land where song and singing is part of my very nature. Now if I were a Christian I imagine that there would be times when when I would want silence. praise as you say in the heart but I cannot even imagine that there would never be other times that I might not want to sing at the top of my voice.
Yes it is okay to praise God ou loud but in secret, wouldnt you say? If you were to praise God infront of people loudly, does that not increase one in pride or lead one to boast? but instead praise him raising your hands speaking to him in your heart?
Also I will also speak to you from experience speaking as a muslim, there were times I would not feel the will in wnating to listen to Qur'aan even though I believed it was the word of God, id prefer music, it didnt matter what type it was, religious, good worded etc, I could not ever see myself listening to the Qur'aan, i realised the heart does love one thing, what you feed it, it will love it, one day i decided to change and listen to the Qur'aan and to me it seemed the most beautiful to listen to, i slowly strayed from music even it was about Islaam( I am referring to nasheeds with instruments not without). I am not completely sure if this is the same for everyone but i myself im convinced that you cannot love both at the same time.. And again you may disagree, but try it for yourself if you will maybe just for an experience..
However I ask you this Question again:
format_quote Originally Posted by Pєαяℓ σf Wιѕ∂σм
As a christian are you not required to follow Jesus (pbuh)? or I am incorrect in saying you are a christian?
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
Like you, I apologise if I have offended you but I am merely speaking from what I personally believe from my own self
Thank you
Last edited by Ğħαrєєвαħ; 06-24-2011 at 11:24 PM.
"Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), Al-Hayyul-Qayyum (the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists).".."[Al Qur'aan 3:2]
Did you not read the article that you posted? The fact is it is mentioned in the article that she was angry as would any other women, but the fact is also when someone is going to force to fight with you one would do so with defence. I am not going to completely answer this Question of yours, because I have not much knowledge of this topic and from my view nor have you, so this topic is one you and I should gain more knowledge and understanding from..
Yes I read it through plus others but perhaps that discussion is for another thread.
When I mentioned in regards to football I am referring to everything you mentioned...I never said playing football is wrong nor did I say that some guys watching their guy friends playing football is wrong either..The point of my post was that one should refrain from attending events that would be of no good in real sense. Like if there is a place raving with fitnah, then it is advised to refrain from going ..in other words one would try their best to stay away from the bad as much as possible, keep in mind I am aware living in the west it is difficult to avoid such things on a normal basis such as for example, for men and women it is required to lower their gaze, now with women and men every where on the street on the path wherever, this would ofcourse be diffiucult..but when one who wants to get closer to his lord will follow his commands to the best of his ability, even Allaah mentions in the Qur'aan "No soul bears a burden more than it can handle". so one will strive to the best, there is no harm in doing that?
I think I follow you and I would agree that one should avoid some things. But for me the truth is something one lives and in that living we do the will of our maker. If all we do is simply obey the law, the do nots I would feel that is an empty existence and I would want a more positive life than that, for me good intention would never be enough. I don't know if you know this but there is an English expression that goes "he/she is so heavenly minded they are no earthly good"
Do you know an Acappella is simply singing with ones voice and not music, but adding to it would definetly rule it as music. Consistency is ofcourse vital..keep in mind the recitation of the Qur'aan is a sound recited by a human yet its not classed as a sin nor use..
Well I think we might define music in many ways: agreeable sounds using voice or instruments or both structured in a continuous manner, auditory communication?
To misuse what it says is a sin, to mis-interpret the Qur'aanic words is impossible.
I have never before heard this said about anything and cannot see how it could possibly be. In fact reading about hadith science I discovered that in Islam the Qu'ran and hadith are said to be divinely protected but interpretations are not so I think you may be wrong here unless you meant something else.
Let me tell you I was once a 'music lover' I would love to hear what you have to say.
The voice is an instrument since the way sounds are produced is similar to many wind instruments. In music one often finds composers going beyond instruments to the human voice because it has qualities that cannot be reproduced. You I think may have heard of Beethoven 9th symphony. It was the first example of a major composer using voices in a symphony (thus making it a choral symphony) where the words are sung during the final movement by four vocal soloists and a chorus with words taken from the famous "Ode to Joy", a poem written by Friedrich Schiller. Its great and inspiring music and its speaks of a joy unsurpassed and I cannot hear it without it deeply affecting me for the good.
At the other end of the scale we have what are affectionately known as 'lollipops', tiny musical master pieces that are just wonderful to hear - for example, Fritz Kreisler, a violinist and a man who radiated a gentleness and refinement not unlike his music often played at the end of his concerts Liebesleid. Here is a man who brought and is still bringing unspeakable joy to those who hear him play on records (he died a long time ago) - I just cannot, well refuse to see how anyone could see this as harmful.
Yes it is okay to praise God ou loud but in secret, wouldnt you say? If you were to praise God infront of people loudly, does that not increase one in pride or lead one to boast? but instead praise him raising your hands speaking to him in your heart?
Of course I understand that believers want to feel near to their God but faith, if it is worth having, is something to be lived out in a transformed life not forever squandered in secret, though of course I can appreciate that there are times when one wants to be alone in prayer and meditation. Self pride I agree is the worst of sins but I get the feeling that one can be proud of being pious too so that one is deluded into thinking you are better than others.
Also I will also speak to you from experience speaking as a muslim, there were times I would not feel the will in wnating to listen to Qur'aan even though I believed it was the word of God, id prefer music, it didnt matter what type it was, religious, good worded etc, I could not ever see myself listening to the Qur'aan, i realised the heart does love one thing, what you feed it, it will love it, one day i decided to change and listen to the Qur'aan and to me it seemed the most beautiful to listen to, i slowly strayed from music even it was about Islaam( I am referring to nasheeds with instruments not without). I am not completely sure if this is the same for everyone but i myself im convinced that you cannot love both at the same time.. And again you may disagree, but try it for yourself if you will maybe just for an experience..
I am sure you are right up to a point, if one has a religious faith then one needs to immerse yourself in the word of God. But I feel also that God expects us to get on with life and enjoy it, helping others along the way. I for one want faith in action, a faith that is life changing and world changing - what good is it if I or you sit all day listening to the Qu'ran whilst the world around us is suffering? Surely, if there is a God he wants us to enjoy the world he has placed us in as well as work for good in it and if we have any sense of love or humanity we will go for what is good and avoid what is evil.
If I were to choose a faith it would be Christian - the reason is that it enjoins the golden rule - do as you would be done by and I also find is absolutely mind boggling that Christianity teaches people to love their enemies - that is powerful stuff.
If I were to choose a faith it would be Christian - the reason is that it enjoins the golden rule - do as you would be done by and I also find is absolutely mind boggling that Christianity teaches people top love their enemies - that is powerful stuff.
It is my understanding that Islam also teaches the golden rule, and that a person should love their enemies. Wasn't the Prophet (s.a.w.) a man who was kind and generous to everyone? I once read somewhere that he would give any person whatever they asked of him, even if he needed it for himself, and even for his enemies. I'll try to find the article for you....
If I were to choose a faith it would be Christian - the reason is that it enjoins the golden rule - do as you would be done by and I also find is absolutely mind boggling that Christianity teaches people to love their enemies - that is powerful stuff.
Islam teaches the same things, and it is true monotheism besides. I have no problem with Christianity or Christians, but there are some doctrinal issues that I disagree with, which is one reason I chose Islam.
But for me the truth is something one lives and in that living we do the will of our maker. If all we do is simply obey the law, the do nots I would feel that is an empty existence .
For Muslims the truth is in the teachings and commands of the Lord. Surely he knows what is best for us because he created us and only wants the best for us.
So in your words following the commands of the Lord an "Empty existence", whereas Muslims believe that following the teachings and commands of the Lord is the ONLY way to live because we are here to fulfil the purpose of our creation and that is to worship Allah and none but him.
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
I just cannot, well refuse to see how anyone could see this as harmful.
There is no doubt that most of the main stream Music of today contains obscene and blasphemous language, encourages or promotes immoral behaviour, arouses lustful feelings, encourages the consumption of intoxicants and drugs and contains unethical and un-Islamic lyrics.
All of this type of Music is totally forbidden as well as being harmful to one's imaan (faith). Music is also a distraction and makes one forgetful of the purpose of life and heedful of the remembrance of Allah as well as weakening the heart.
It alters and changes the mood and blood pressure levels. Some types of music with certain instruments are permissible on certain occasions but as Muslims we are cautious about matters which pertain to our way of life - Islam.
So we try our best to stay away from doubtful matters as we try our bst to do everything which pleases Allah and refrain from anything which angers or displeases him.
We are those who follow the words and teachings of God and his Prophet and do not disregard our scriptures like some other religions do.
As Muslims we have one purpose and that is to worship Allah. Muslims we believe it makes one forgetful about the purpose of life and the remembrance of Allah as well as weakening the heart.
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
I am sure you are right up to a point, if one has a religious faith then one needs to immerse yourself in the word of God. But I feel also that God expects us to get on with life and enjoy it, helping others along the way.
I for one want faith in action, a faith that is life changing and world changing - what good is it if I or you sit all day listening to the Qur’an whilst the world around us is suffering?
Surely, if there is a God he wants us to enjoy the world he has placed us in as well as work for good in it and if we have any sense of love or humanity we will go for what is good and avoid what is evil.
As Muslims we do not just sit there and listen to the Qur'an without taking action but we listen to and read the words of Allah it in order to implement his teachings into our daily lives.
There is no use in us as Muslims reading or listening to the Qur'an if we are not going to try and understand and implement it into our everyday life.
In Islam knowledge is meant to be put into action and not just stored in the memory.
Islam also enjoins that Muslims be active members of the community who commit themselves to helping others as well as doing good deeds like charitable acts and being the best towards others. The best are those who are the most benefit to others so as Muslims we try to be the most benefit we can to our society as a whole well as those in need.
If anyone reads the Qur'an and teachings of the Prophet properly they would know these facts and they would also know what an exemplary example the Prophet was to the whole of mankind.
format_quote Originally Posted by Impey
If I were to choose a faith it would be Christian - the reason is that it enjoins the golden rule - do as you would be done by - I also find is absolutely mind boggling that Christianity teaches people to love their enemies - that is powerful stuff.
What is also mind boggling is that the teachings of incarnation, trinity, Cruci-fiction, Theotokas, blood atonement of Christ, the original sin, all of which are all fundamental teachings of Christianity are NOT supported by the explicit words or teachings of ANY Prophet, God or Jesus.
How can such fundamental teachings NOT be explicitly stated in the words of God or Jesus if they are meant to be so important and the very foundations of Christianity?
The only places you will find these teachings are in the words of Paul - The creator of Christianity and the Gospels which were written by anonymous men who had never met or had anything to do with Jesus.
Do you call that the religion of truth?
How can such unreliable anonymous writings of random men become the very foundations of Christianity?
Surely then Christianity is not a religion derived from the words and teachings of God or Jesus but that of Paul and anonymous writers of the Gospels because these are what Christianity is based upon.
Let others judge if they see Christianity as a "Religion of truth" based on these facts.
There is NO doubt that anyone who researches Christianity properly will find that it is the furthest from the truth you can ever get.
EVERY fundamental in Islam is FULLY supported by the teachings of Allah in the Qur'an which has been unchanged since revelation.
There is NO doubt that ANYONE who reads the Qur'an with an open heart will find that it is no less than a miracle and truly the words of God himself.
Last edited by Hamza Asadullah; 06-30-2011 at 02:55 AM.
Let me share what I learned from a veteran karkon who was a successful musician before he chose dakwah to be his life work.
Music has a tendency to go round and round in our heads. First, we would listen many, many times to music or songs that we like. Then we would replay that piece of music or song in our mind. Finally, we would end by carrying that piece of music or song in our head as we go about our daily routine.
So what's wrong with that?
For a Muslim, a very worthy ambition to work towards is to be able to utter the Kalimah Tayyibah with our last breath. To achieve this we dhikr as much as we can, to the point that our hearts would beat with the repetition of the name of Allah.
Unfortunately, much as we would wish otherwise, our brains are not equipped to hold two different thoughts at the one and same time. So if we have a piece of music or a song swirling around in our brain, it is not possible to dhikr at the one and same time. Then, with our last breath, instead of uttering the Kalimah Tayyibah, we are more than likely to end our stay on this mortal realm still playing that piece of music or song in our mind. To die like that would very likely reduce our chances of going to jannah all the way down to zero.
Now, if you are going to ask, what's wrong with not going to jannah, I will have to seriously consider starting a thread with a title like, say, "The Benefits of Going to Hell in Your Own Way".
Hope this sheds some light on the issue of whether music is haram. WaLLahu aklam.
Music is all around us (especially in the Western world) so it is hard not to listen to music. But alhemdulilah I've been cutting down on the amount of music I listen to, I never was an avid music lover to be honest but a few years back I remember I used to listen to music EVERYDAY and I slacked in my prayer and reading Qur'an.
Singing with a duff (drum) is HALAL. Which nasheeds do. With the exception of artists such as Sami Yusuf who uses musical instruments.
Besides, why debate over whether music is haraam or okay? If you're unsure about something leave it. It won't benefit you to get to Jannah will it? So why bother debating?
[FONT="Arial Narrow"][SIZE="4"][COLOR="#00bfff"]Yes, music is haraam. People have different views on it though, such as the hadith in which the Prophet :saw: said: “Among my ummah there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…” but some people say that this hadith has a broken isnaad chain, but this claim was refuted. Something like that. Those who seek to make music permissible (along with zinaa, silk, and alcohol) shall suffer a humiliating punishment. Watch all 11 parts of a lecture on YouTube called "The Classical Hit, It's Bad".
Yes, music is haraam. People have different views on it though, such as the hadith in which the Prophet :saw: said: “Among my ummah there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…” but some people say that this hadith has a broken isnaad chain, but this claim was refuted. Something like that. Those who seek to make music permissible (along with zinaa, silk, and alcohol) shall suffer a humiliating punishment. Watch all 11 parts of a lecture called: "The Classical Hit, It's Bad".
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Advice Please-- Is Music Haraam? (OP)
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