For your information I didn't say all non western muslims are gay
Yes, and my point is that I think it is unfair to state that homosexuality is caused by western influence. I know it is easy to blame all negative things in this world on western people/influence but I respectfully disagree.
Well Homosexuality is highest in the West and more importantly other than statistics, it's kinda considered 'normal'. I mean they're are gay bars, clubs etc and one can portray it more easily compared to non western countries, where it's considered an "illness".
Well Homosexuality is highest in the West and more importantly other than statistics, it's kinda considered 'normal'. I mean they're are gay bars, clubs etc and one can portray it more easily compared to non western countries, where it's considered an "illness".
Well it depends on who you talk to. Did you ever think that homosexuals exist in muslim nations but maybe they don't out themselves for fear of persecution? I don't know....just guessing. In some areas of our country, it wouldn't be wise to tout that you are a homosexual either. There are some who just aren't tolerant of it.....certainly not welcoming of it. So, I wouldn't say we consider it "normal," we have just realized that freedom is not limited to just heterosexuals.
Actually, for those who are deeply religious and speak out against homosexuality in the US, you would not believe the backlash that they get from the liberal political community. The deeply religious are called zealots, intolerant, close minded.......the list goes on. In some ways, many who are deeply religious feel that are discriminated against simply because they won't bend their beliefs to accept the homosexual lifestyle as "normal."
And, keep in mind, the vast majority of the US are still christians. And, christianity does not believe that homosexuality is morally right either.
As for me, well, I do not feel that I am one to judge anyone. I leave judging to God.
And God has judged. Homosexuality is condemned in every major religion.
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
Personally, I do not think a true homosexual chooses their life. After all, why would you choose a lifestyle that is shunned and found repulsive by many?
Whether they choose it or not is irrelevant. If, for the sake of argument, we agree that they are born with that trait, then that is comparable to those who are born with other physical illnesses, but they must be patient. They cannot succumb to their desires like an animal.
Just curious though....do muslims view gay women and gay men in the same light? I guess what I'm asking is if homosexuality in general is not acceptable or is there a different view based on whether its two men or two women?
OK, your above link uses an hypothosis from a study dated 1996, which uses references from studies dated 1959,1962,1978,1903,1996. That hypothosis btw has now been floored, so posting an out of date hypothosis is about as much support that homophobic groups can muster.
This link is the main supporting arguement and is scripture based.
1. Lack of Islamic education.
2. Bad friends who have no spiritual or social quaity.
3. Lack of sex education in how to satisfy inate sexual desires as instructed by the almighty.
4. Carelesness in granting too much freedom.
5. Lack of monitoring children.
6. The lack of true understanding and explanation of the physical and psychological dangers and hazards of adultery, fornication, and sexual perversion in this world and the great punishment of the Hereafter.
Now, your link goes on to give us it's "Wisdom"
First, such acts lead to the spread of passivity among the young generation and destroy their morality, since they cannot practice such perversion except after taking some drugs to create for themselves a virtual atmosphere where they feel fake joy. Sufficient unto any person to feel that his manhood is lost.
Clearly, this is "off the cuff" wisdom and has no proven evidence. And many have looked in this area too and also came up empty handed.
Second, it destroys the lives of women whose husbands leave them in pursuit of this perversion and they, in turn, try to find a way to satisfy their sexual needs. In such case, the whole society will be no more than chaos.
Clearly, since the west is not homophobic & not in a state of "Chaos" from homosexuality. Such wisdom is highly suspicious.
Third, it is a fierce attack on progeny and pregnancy, which increases the human race.
It has no impact within the west where Homosexuality is accepted and clearly irrelevent since "birth control" or the lack of it and visa versa has a greater implication than homosexuality
Fourth, the dangerous diseases that are caused by it are unavoidable and fatal. Topping these illnesses is HIV/AIDS.
Great wisdom, totally homophobic remark. Totally ignores the known "evolutionary" facts of the spread of Simian Immunodeficiency Virus.
I once saw this programme where it said the most homophobic people are actualy repressed homosexuals themselves, i think that is common knowledge by now.
I once saw this programme where it said the most homophobic people are actualy repressed homosexuals themselves, i think that is common knowledge by now.
hhhmmmm, has a very firmiliar ring to it. I think I saw that programme too, was it the same programme that said at the end of every religous book is a warning of the very nasty things that will happen to them if they do not beleive what the book says..........
Incidently, I am often accused of being homophobic in a discussion group and my local pub. Compared to Islam's view on Homosexuality I am actually an extreme moderate on the matter!
hhhmmmm, has a very firmiliar ring to it. I think I saw that programme too, was it the same programme that said at the end of every religous book is a warning of the very nasty things that will happen to them if they do not beleive what the book says..........
Usually sarcasm is used to illustrate a point.....................
was it the same programme that said at the end of every religous book is a warning of the very nasty things that will happen to them if they do not beleive what the book says..........
Well the Qur'an does not end with that... rather it ends with Words to protect oneself from evil.
OK, your above link uses an hypothosis from a study dated 1996, which uses references from studies dated 1959,1962,1978,1903,1996. That hypothosis btw has now been floored, so posting an out of date hypothosis is about as much support that homophobic groups can muster.
You can call it outdated and "floored" all you like. It doesn't prove anything. From your posts, one would think it against atheist ideology to support one's claims.
Clearly, since the west is not homophobic & not in a state of "Chaos" from homosexuality.
I beg to differ. Living in the west we can see that chaos is certainly on the rise, imoorality has become abundant in all forms of media. All researches confirm that the west is being desensitized to violence and immorality through the media, especially movies and television.
It has no impact within the west where Homosexuality is accepted and clearly irrelevent since "birth control" or the lack of it and visa versa has a greater implication than homosexuality
The greater impact of other issues does not negate this impact.
Great wisdom, totally homophobic remark. Totally ignores the known "evolutionary" facts of the spread of Simian Immunodeficiency Virus.
You can call it outdated and "floored" all you like. It doesn't prove anything. From your posts, one would think it against atheist ideology to support one's claims.
Actually it proves that it is a load of rubbish!
I beg to differ. Living in the west we can see that chaos is certainly on the rise, imoorality has become abundant in all forms of media. All researches confirm that the west is being desensitized to violence and immorality through the media, especially movies and television.
"We", you are talking as if "You" represent a group. However the rest of your comment is your own personal thoughts on the matter. However, I realise it is difficult for some to come to terms with. The UK is not in Chaos due to homosexuality at all.
The greater impact of other issues does not negate this impact.
It seems you don't care what wild accustaions are made as long as they support your stance. I quote in Italics from your link:
As far as I know, there is no other group of people in the United States that dies of infectious diseases in their mid-forties except practicing homosexuals.
This is a shocking lie.
We are debating gay activists who want to add "sexual discrimination" to our anti-discrimination code.
That explains it. And she failed, it has been ammended and homosexuals are protected under anti-discrimination codes.
irrefutable evidence that there are lethal consequences of engaging in the defining features of male homosexuality--that is, promiscuity and anal intercourse.
Many hetro-sexual couples engage in anal sex also.
"A lifetime of anal sex does not do great things for the body."
Nor does a life-time of breathing! Sunbathing and smoking.
Can anyone refute that anal intercourse tears the rectal lining of the receptive partner, regardless of whether a condom is worn, and the subsequent contact with fecal matter leads to a host of diseases?
Diseases to which active homosexuals are vulnerable can be classified as follows:
Classical sexually transmitted diseases (gonorrhea, infections with Chlamydia trachomatis, syphilis, herpes simplex infections, genital warts, pubic lice, scabies); enteric diseases (infections with Shigella species, Campylobacter jejuni, Entamoeba histolytica, Giardia lamblia, ["gay bowel disease"], Hepatitis A, B, C, D, and cytomegalovirus); trauma (related to and/or resulting in fecal incontinence, hemorroids, anal fissure, foreign bodies lodged in the rectum, rectosigmoid tears, allergic proctitis, penile edema, chemical sinusitis, inhaled nitrite burns, and sexual assault of the male patient); and the acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS).
No, can anyone refute only homosexuals engage in anal sex.
lol, the proof that the argument is rubbish is because you claim its outdated without demonstrating how?
Your posts are filled with claims and denial without any evidence to back anything up.
"We", you are talking as if "You" represent a group. However the rest of your comment is your own personal thoughts on the matter. However, I realise it is difficult for some to come to terms with. The UK is not in Chaos due to homosexuality at all.
Simple denial, not worth my responding to.
It's impact is minimal, and has no conaequence
Denial.
It seems you don't care what wild accustaions are made as long as they support your stance. I quote in Italics from your link:
As far as I know, there is no other group of people in the United States that dies of infectious diseases in their mid-forties except practicing homosexuals.
This is a shocking lie.
Denial.
We are debating gay activists who want to add "sexual discrimination" to our anti-discrimination code.
That explains it. And she failed, it has been ammended and homosexuals are protected under anti-discrimination codes.
So?
Many hetro-sexual couples engage in anal sex also.
No one is debating that, either way its impermissable in Islam and has severe medical consequences. But it is the ONLY method for gays!
No, can anyone refute only homosexuals engage in anal sex.
I don't say "Only homosexuals engage in anal sex."
I say, "homosexuals only engage in anal sex."!!
Peace.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
lol, the proof that the argument is rubbish is because you claim its outdated without demonstrating how?
Ansar,
Look at what I said right at the beginning:
OK, your above link uses an hypothosis from a study dated 1996, which uses references from studies dated 1959,1962,1978,1903,1996. That hypothosis btw has now been floored, so posting an out of date hypothosis is about as much support that homophobic groups can muster.
You do understand what an Hypothosis is! If only you would readily accept evolutionary hypothosis as quickly as you accept this Hypothosis. You insist when debating with me on evolution for actual theory, yet you are so quick to use an hypothosis yourself.
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
I don't say "Only homosexuals engage in anal sex."
I say, "homosexuals only engage in anal sex."!!
Peace.
You indirectly did, for the link you gave was noted as to the dangers of homosexuality with anal sex, yet she completely failed to mention that hetrosexual's too (a percentage of) engage in anal sex.............
Think I will let this one go, however, it has been worthwhile to understand mainstream muslim thoughts on homosexuality.......
Regards
Root
Last edited by Ansar Al-'Adl; 11-17-2005 at 11:15 PM.
Reason: Merged posts: 59854, 58195
once my and my best friend(a muslim like me) went to a store to get snacks, then we saw two gay guyz, they were acting gay. i couldnt stand that so me and him got out of the store as quickly as possible. anyway i dont like gay people, their actions and who they are as a person, they are a big embrassement to society if you ask me, and they make society look a like a total joke. but i think they all still deserve their rights, cause their humans like us, if the muslim prayers for small stuff like getting a bus to come wonder if they can work to eliminate the homosexualityness in a human. but heck neitherless if someone is gay, thats their personal life or should i say business unless they decide to be open about it which i doubt. i once saw on the news, how a gay young adult got beat up by some bias guyz, felt sorry for the guy he didnt look gay, but he sure was.
i wish allah can eliminate the homosexuality in a human being.
Last edited by scared one; 07-23-2005 at 01:40 AM.
The topic of homosexuality is indeed serious. As it mentioned in the Quran. When the people of the prophet Lut(pbuh) did not obey Allah and his prophet then they were punished severely. We know as Muslims that it is against the will of Allah to be homosexual so how can one feel sorry for a type of wrong going person. Being careful is a vital factor since the west claims it is has the best system, except what its doing is destroying the nature of humans.
You indirectly did, for the link you gave was noted as to the dangers of homosexuality with anal sex, yet she completely failed to mention that hetrosexual's too (a percentage of) engage in anal sex.............
Just to clear up the matter.....
Againb Root, you're not understanding the issue. The reason why anal sex is a proof of the harmful consequences of homosexuality is not because anal sex is only practiced by gays, but because gays only practice anal sex!
And as Br. akhee has pointed out, either way it is forbidden in Islam, therefore it serves as both medical and Islamic evidence against homosexuality.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
if your child was gay, what would you do??? if they couldnt resist their feelings and already had a relationship with another samesex partner, what would you do???
if they still said that they believe in allah azwajjal even tho homosexuality is a major sin in islam. would you still accept them and love them as you used to love them???
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