Some Questions About Islam

Peace to you cooloonka:

Welcome to the forum. Inshallah, (God Willing), you find the forum beneficial.

I would like to respond to some of what you said here.

i understand the messiah to be the savior of the jews (and everyone else). he is the savior because he brought us the truth and the truth sets us free. christians are people who follow the teachings of jesus and believe that when he died and was then resurrected (easter) that was proof to all (because he and only he could rise from the dead) that he was indeed the messiah.

Jesus, pbuh (peace be upon him), did bring truth, you're right. But, if that makes Him a saviour, then all the prophets before Him are also saviours because He brought the same message they did. Remember, He said He did not come to change the laws of the Prophets before Him. He was delivering the same message and didn't bring any new laws. If being raised from the dead is a sign of divinity, then Lazarus must also be divine, and a number of others that were raised by Elijah and Elisha.

If you use this type of logic to prove divinity, then the same logic must also be applied to all others that were able to do the same thing. The Prophets before Jesus, ie Moses, brought new laws, so wouldn't that make Moses more divine, using that logic? Jesus, pbuh, only reinforced the previous laws and set the example of how to live by them. Moses was eventually accepted by His people, but Jesus, (Peace be upon them both), was never accepted. Does this not give Moses a bigger claim to divinity? The reality is that none of the Prophets, including Jesus, ever claimed divinity.

I wrote a short post about Why Muslims Can't accept the Divinity of Jesus if you're interested in a bit more information.

easter is considered the most important day to christians because it is the day that jesus rose into the heavens (people saw this) and thus proved he was the messiah and thus everyone was saved.

In keeping with the use of the logic that because He rose to the heavens is proof of divinity, then Elijah must also be divine, "Elijah the Prophet had ascended "into heaven" in a "chariot of fire." II Kings, Chapter 2 I do believe. This happened 850 years BCE. Elijah was suppose to return to announce the coming of the Messiah (which simply means the anointed one and the term is used throughout the Hebrew text when not referring to Jesus, pbuh).

now there are hundreds of different type of christians. many use different translations of the bible. many bibles contain books that others leave out. i understand it to be like the sunni and shiite. i don't know much about eithr but i know they are both considered muslim however there is some difference in opinion (hence the different name)

Actually, no this is very different from the difference between Sunni and Shiite Muslims. Both groups use ONE QUR'AN. There is only one Qur'an and every Muslim uses it. There are different translations, but the translations are far different than the actual Qur'an and we never claim a translation to be the actual Qur'an. Translations are referred to as "The Meanings of the Holy Qur'an", not just "The Holy Qur'an". Christians use different versions of bibles and these versions have different translations. ie: The Catholic bible has 73 books, the Protestant Bible has 66 books. These are different versions. Not only the number of books differ, but in some cases, verses in the same books differ.

just like there are radical muslim groups there are radical christian groups who take the bible and twist it into something demented and evil to obtain their own person needs to feel powerful. thus we are all human.

I absolutely agree with you here!! Follow the teachings, not the followers!

Take care and peace to you,
Hana

format_quote Originally Posted by cooloonka

again i am no expert but i'm going to try to explain things the way i was taught.

Christians believe the Bible is written in God's own words. we believe that God gave the message to certain people who were mere messengers. in that sense the Bible is considered true and good and holy.

therefore...
"Indeed, even though there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as in fact there are many gods and many lords—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist (1 Cor 8:5-6)."
is one passage that clearly states Jesus' divinity. and when Lord is used in other passages it is another name for Jesus but the meaning is always the same. Lord=God=Jesus.

Hi again, cooloonka,

Noone of us here, well not most here are experts, just here to kind of share our views and hopefully come to a better understanding.

I would just like to say that, we could go on and on about the individual verses, and how they can be interpreted, and whether they are in ancient and reliable manuscripts, and so forth, I find that interesting and we do have a thread on it, what I think both Muslims and Christians agree to, generally, is that there is no clear statement in the whole Bible where Jesus is shown to be G-d, rather some statements which require interpretation.

But that would leave us with arguements and heavy hearts, and in alot of cases, debates tend to create alot of heat but hardly any light, and tend to be manipulated by our common enemy Satan into instructing the other members of faith, whether Christian or Muslim to close their hearts and ears to any truth and just get their own point across. Rather, here we try or at least I try to promote discussions and some debating within reason and respecatbly and hoping that when the truth comes it is accepted, for mankind is drawn by the same goal, i.e. to worship one God.

Anyhow, yes, I wont debate about the interpretation verses, but maybe something that Muslims and some Christians agree on is the curroption of the bible, though we hardly agree on to what extent.

Maybe that would be a more solid place to discuss.

The points you have raised are interesting, and I hope you go to the 'Christian thread' on here where members ask Christians questions and whomso ever wants can answer

I hope you enjoy the forum and any problems you encounter feel free to pm any mod

Eesa.

I moved it here because it would get confusing with the number of overlapping discussions going on in that thread, and so your answers would be provided invdividually making it easier for you and others.

Peace to you, Cooloonka:

I apologize for taking so long to respond. I didn't see your post until today.

format_quote Originally Posted by cooloonka

again i am no expert but i'm going to try to explain things the way i was taught.

Christians believe the Bible is written in God's own words. we believe that God gave the message to certain people who were mere messengers. in that sense the Bible is considered true and good and holy.

Well the fact is, we know the entire bible is not the inspired word of God. How? I will give a couple of examples:

“But to the rest speak I, not the Lord” (I Corinthians 7:12).

This is from Paul who clearly states these are HIS words, not the words of God.

Luke 1:1-4 “Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.”

Here, Luke tells us exactly why he wrote his gospel. Not once did he claim he was divinely inspired and actually says the opposite. He's saying he wrote because he felt he had the knowledge based solely on hearsay traditions and because of his status as a doctor he felt he could give a better account than those of a lower status, such as fishermen. This is also not the word of God, but the words of the author of Luke, (who is anonymous).

As you can see, the entire bible is not the 100% inspired word of God. Unfortunately, after centuries of additions, it is almost impossible to determine which is the word of God and which is the word of man.

therefore...
"Indeed, even though there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as in fact there are many gods and many lords—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist (1 Cor 8:5-6)."
is one passage that clearly states Jesus' divinity. and when Lord is used in other passages it is another name for Jesus but the meaning is always the same. Lord=God=Jesus.

Actually, depending on which version of the bible you use, this verse has many translations. So, the most widely accepted and used version is the KJV and I will quote from it:

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

First, notice how it clearly says ONE God who created all things, including us. It then continues on and uses the word "AND" to say, there is also ONE Lord (Lord, also used by Sarah when referring to Abraham. It also means Master....a sign of status and respect...not divinity). ONE Lord who delivered the message of the ONE God. It does not say they are 2 in 1 being. It is very clear the verse is speaking of 2 completely separate entities. One being the creator the other being the teacher and messenger FOR the creator.

There is absolutely no basis or claim to divinity here.

Peace to you, and may Allah, swt, continue to guide you to truth. Ameen

Hana