What should we do about our sects?

one way or another it will hit 73.

format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah

http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-di...aved-sect.html

The link you provided gives so many things which are common to most of the sects; and every sect doesn't comply with all of the instructions. It also confuses when it says to follow the path of the companions of the messenger of Allah. They followed different paths on many issues. For example, the first four khaleefas chose different paths to be selected as khalifas.

Also this link suggests that only the Ahle-Hadith (wabih) sect is the right one.

format_quote Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi

Also this link suggests that only the Ahle-Hadith (wabih) sect is the right one.

Imaam Ahmad (d.241H) - rahimahullaah - said:

"If this Taa'ifatul-Mansoorah (Victorious and Aided Group) is not Ashaabul-Hadeeth, then I do not know who they are."
[Related by al-Haakim in Ma'rifatu 'Uloomul-Hadeeth (p.3), and al-Haafidh Ibn Hajr declared its isnaad to be Saheeh in Fathul-Baaree (13/293).]

http://www.islamicboard.com/628115-post89.html

Al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadee (d.463H) said:

"And if only the people of blameworthy opinion busied themselves with beneficial knowledge, and seeking the Sunnah of the Messenger of the Lord of Creation, and followed the way of the fuqahaa and muhadditheen - then they would find that this would be sufficient for them. And the narration would take the place of his opinion which he used to hold; since the Hadeeth comprehends the fundamentals of Tawheed, the reported Threats and the Promises, the Attributes of the Lord of Creation - who is High above the saying of the apostates, it also contains information about Paradise and Hell-Fire, and what Allaah has prepared therein for the pious and the wicked, and what Allaah has created in the earths and the heavens, and the remarkable things and great signs, and a mention of the nearest Angels - those drawn up in ranks and those who recite tasbeeh.

And the Hadeeth comprehends stories of the about the pious ascetics and Awliyaa, wonderful admonition and sayings of the Scholars. It contains histories of the kings of the 'Arabs and non-'Arabs, and the accounts of past nations, and descriptions of the battles of the Messenger sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam; his expeditions, rulings, judgements, sermons, warnings, predictions and miracles. It also contains information about the number of his Wives and Children, his Relatives and Companions, and a mention of their excellence and merit, and a mention of their lives, their actions and their ancestry. And the Hadeeth contains tafseer of the Qur'aan, information and the wise remembrance contained in it. It contains the sayings of the Companions about its preserved rulings, the different sayings they held, as well as those of the Scholars and mujtahids.

And Allaah made Ahlul-Hadeeth (the People of Hadeeth) the pillar of the Sharee'ah and the destroyer of every despicable innovation. So they are Allaah's wardens amongst His creation, and the link between the Prophet sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam and his Ummah, and the strivers to preserve His Deen. So their light shines brightly, their excellence remains, their signs are clear, their positions evident and their proofs are over-powering. And all the sects coil themselves around vain desires and prefer opinion which they cling to - except for Ahlul-Hadeeth, since the Book is their provision, the Sunnah is their proof, the Messenger their leader and to him is their ascription. They do not deviate upon vain desires, nor turn to mere conjecture. They accept what is reported from the Prophet sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam and they are the trustworthy and reliable ones, who memorise the Deen and are its treasurers, its storehouses of knowledge and its bearers. If anyone differs about a hadeeth, then it is referred back to them. Thus, their judgement is accepted and listened to. From them is every Scholar and Imaam, and every true ascetic, and one of excellence, and precise reciter and righteous Khateeb. They are the Saved-Sect and their way is the straight one ..."

[Related by Ibn Abee Haatim in Aadaabush-Shaafi'ee (pp.94-95), Abu Nu'aym in Hilyatul-Awliyaa (9/106) and al-Khateeb in Ihtijaaj bish-Shaafi'ee (8/1). It was declared to be Saheeh by Ibn al-Qayyim in al-I'laam (2/325).]

what are your thoughts on mazhabs - is it necessary to follow one?

i know there is nothing wrong with following a mazhab - and in fact, it is encouraged - but is it necessary to?

format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah

They selected khulafah in different ways, but whose to say they were wrong? Infact it's better for us because we have more just options to get a good khalifah; whether it is by the previous khalifah giving the position to the one who is the most befitting for that position, or whether its the pious scholars who are the inheritors of the prophets who decide who the most worthy one to have the position is etc.

Nobdoy says they were wrong? Did someone say so? Do you mean to say there's no single specific way in Quran or Hadith for choosing a khalifa? There're many paths to reach the same destination and all of them straight. The messenger of Allah drew a straight line to show that there can only be one path which is straight. Now you tell us that all 4 differnt paths were straight. Man you're just confusing.

format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah

Snakelegs, i think as someone who doesn't know how to extract rulings from Qur'an and Sunnah, we do need to follow a madhab. And Allaah knows best. I may be wrong.
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thanks for reply.

format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs

thanks for reply.

hrm. I can't paste a link to an article for some odd reason, it gives me a ***** when I do. :huh:

salaam,

I don't think it is necessary at all to follow a madhab. I think someone should just follow scholars that they trust instead of always wondering "what did Abu Hanifa say about this, or say about that." We should focus more on what the Prophet (SAW) said, and how the majority of the scholars understood it, not just sticking to one Imam your whole life, because at the end of the day they are only human.

And Allah Knows Best.

I copied this Chapter from the Book called "The Path to Guddance ny Imaam Ibn Al-Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah"

Chapter Eleven

Ibn Al-Qayyim on follwoing a School of though (Madhhab)

Ibn Al-Qayyaim said: "Does the common person have to follwo one of the well known madhhabs or not? There are two sayings regarding this:


Thats it is not obligatory upon him and this is what is correct and definite since there is nothing obligatory except what Allah, the Most High, and His Messenger have made obligatory. Neither Allah nor His Messenger have made obligatory to follow the school of thought (madhhab) of any person from the ummah and to follow him alone in the Religion. The best generations passed by without anyone doing this. Inded the common person cannot have a madhhab, even if he thinks that he does, since the common person has no madhhab at all. This is because the madhhab will be either for the one who is able to research to a certain level and understand evidence and also know about the other madhhabs or for the one who has read a book concerning the details of that madhhab and knows the ruling and saying of his Imaam.


As for the one who is unable to do any of thatbut merely says, 'I am a Shaafi'ee...or 'I am Hanbalee...etc'., then he does not become that just by saying so, just as would be the case if he said 'I am religious scholar...' or 'I am a scholar of grammar...' then does he become that just by saying so. This is futher clarified by the fact that the one who says 'I am shaafi'ee... or a Maalikee...or a Hanafee...' claiming that he follows that Imaam and his way, would only be truthful if he were to follow his way in acquing knolwedge, understanding and extraction of proof. As for this one, with his ignorance and being far from the manners of the Imaam and his knolwedge and way, how can it be correct for him to ascribe himself to him except with mere claims and empty words having no meaning?! How can the common person have a madhhab? Even if it could be imagined it would still not be obligatory upon him or anyone else to ever have to follow the madhhab of a certain amn from the ummah, to the extent that he accepts all his saying and rejects everyone else's sayings.

This is a filthy innovation introuduced tinto the ummah.

No scholar of Islaam has ever said this and they are higher in station and better knowing about Allah than to order the people about this. Even futher from the truth is the saying of those who say that he must stick to the madhhab of a single scholar and futher still from the truth is the one whp says, he must follow one of the four madhhabs! O Allah, how strange!


(Is it that) the madhhabs of the Campanions of Allah's Messneger (pbuh) have died out and those of the taabi'een and those who came after them and those of the rest of the scholars of Islaam and all have invalidated except for the madhhabs of four men only from amongest all the rest of the scholars and Imaams?!



Rather, that which Allah, the Most High, and His Messenger made obligatory upon the Companions, the taabi'een and those who came after them is the same as that which He made obligatory upon those after them util the Day of Resurrection. That which is obligatory does not vary or change, even though how it is achieved may vary or the amount which is obligatory may vary due to varying ability or inability, time, place and condition, but that also follows what Allah and His Messenger have obligated.

Those who say that it is correct for the common person to have a madhhab claim, 'Because he believes that the madhhab which he ascribes himself to is the truth, therefore, he must be sincere to his belief.' If this saying of theirs were true then it would mean that it is forbidden to seek a ruling from anyone other than the people of his own madhhab and likewise thats it is forbidden to take the madhhab of anyone equal or greater than than his own Imaam and would mean other things which all show the falsity of the beleif in the first place. Indeed it would mean that if he saw a text from Alalh's Messenger or a saying from the four Caliphs with other than his own Imaam, he would have to abandon the text and the sayings of the Compainions and give precedence to the saying of his own Imaam.


Rather, he should seek from whom he wishes from the followers of the four madhhabs and others besides them. It is not obligatory upon him or upon the one who delievers verdicts (muftee) to limit himself to one of the four Imaams. Upon this is the consensus of the ummah, just as it is not obligatory upon the scholar to restrict himself to the hadeeths reported by the people of his land or any land in particlular, rather, if any hadeeth is authentic it is obligatory to act upon it, (*) whether it is reported of the people of the Hijaaz, 'Iraaq, Shaam, Egypt or Yeme." (**)
.................................................. .................................................

(*) Aboo Haneefah said, "When I say something contradicting the Book of Allah, the Exalted, or what is narrated from the Messenger, then ignore my saying," al-Fulaani in Eeqaaz al-Himam (p.50), tracing it to Imaam Muhammad and then saying, "This does not aplly to the mujtahid, for he is not bound to their view anyway, but it applies to blind-following." Imaam Maalik said, "Truly I am only a mortal. I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore, look inot my opinions, all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it. And all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it," Ibn 'Abdul-Barr in Jaami' Bayaanal-Ilm (2/32). Imaam ash-Shaafi'ee said, "The sunnahs of the Messenger of Allah reach, as well as escape from, everyone of us. So whnever I voice my opinion or formulate a principle, where something contrary to my view exists on the authority of the Messnger of Allah, then the correct view is what the Messenger of Allah has said- and it is my view," related by Haakim with a continuous chain of narration to Shaafi'ee, as in Taareekh Dimashq of Ibn 'Asaakir (15/1/3), I'laamul-Muwaqqi'een (2/363, 364). And he also said "The Muslim are unanimously agree that if a sunnah of the Messenger of Allah os made clear to someone, it is not permitted for him to leave it for the saying on anyone else." Ibn al-Qayyim (2/361) and Fulaani (p.68). Imaam Ahmad said, "The opinion of Awaa'ee, the opinion of Maalik, the opinion of Aboo Haneefah- all of it is opinion, and it is all equal in my eyes. However, the proof is in the narrations (from the Prophet and his Companions)," Ibn 'Abul-Barr in Jaami' Bayaan al-'ilm (2/149).


(**) I'laamul-Mwwaqqi'een (4/261).

format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah

If you're a muslim, then i'm sure you accept what the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said.


He (peace be upon him) said:

"Indeed those from before you from the People of the Book divided into seventy-two groups. And, indeed, this group (Muslims) will divide into seventy-three. Seventy-two groups will be in the Hellfire and one of them will be in Paradise. And it is the Jamaa'ah (group)." 3

And in another narration, he said: "Everyone of them in the Hellfire, except for one group that which I and my companions are upon." 4


So remember that we follow his way, and the way of his companions. As Allaah has stated in the Qur'an that He is pleased with certain companions (i.e. those who were in the treaty of Hudaibia) and in the sunnah of those who fought in Badr.

This is not the answer to my question which you quoted for your quote. Your post is nowhere near to that. I don't know why you quoted me. Maybe you made a mistake.

format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Mu'minah

I copied this Chapter from the Book called "The Path to Guddance ny Imaam Ibn Al-Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah"

Chapter Eleven

Ibn Al-Qayyim on follwoing a School of though (Madhhab)

Ibn Al-Qayyaim said: "Does the common person have to follwo one of the well known madhhabs or not? There are two sayings regarding this:


Thats it is not obligatory upon him and this is what is correct and definite since there is nothing obligatory except what Allah, the Most High, and His Messenger have made obligatory. Neither Allah nor His Messenger have made obligatory to follow the school of thought (madhhab) of any person from the ummah and to follow him alone in the Religion. The best generations passed by without anyone doing this. Inded the common person cannot have a madhhab, even if he thinks that he does, since the common person has no madhhab at all. This is because the madhhab will be either for the one who is able to research to a certain level and understand evidence and also know about the other madhhabs or for the one who has read a book concerning the details of that madhhab and knows the ruling and saying of his Imaam.


As for the one who is unable to do any of thatbut merely says, 'I am a Shaafi'ee...or 'I am Hanbalee...etc'., then he does not become that just by saying so, just as would be the case if he said 'I am religious scholar...' or 'I am a scholar of grammar...' then does he become that just by saying so. This is futher clarified by the fact that the one who says 'I am shaafi'ee... or a Maalikee...or a Hanafee...' claiming that he follows that Imaam and his way, would only be truthful if he were to follow his way in acquing knolwedge, understanding and extraction of proof. As for this one, with his ignorance and being far from the manners of the Imaam and his knolwedge and way, how can it be correct for him to ascribe himself to him except with mere claims and empty words having no meaning?! How can the common person have a madhhab? Even if it could be imagined it would still not be obligatory upon him or anyone else to ever have to follow the madhhab of a certain amn from the ummah, to the extent that he accepts all his saying and rejects everyone else's sayings.

This is a filthy innovation introuduced tinto the ummah.

No scholar of Islaam has ever said this and they are higher in station and better knowing about Allah than to order the people about this. Even futher from the truth is the saying of those who say that he must stick to the madhhab of a single scholar and futher still from the truth is the one whp says, he must follow one of the four madhhabs! O Allah, how strange!


(Is it that) the madhhabs of the Campanions of Allah's Messneger (pbuh) have died out and those of the taabi'een and those who came after them and those of the rest of the scholars of Islaam and all have invalidated except for the madhhabs of four men only from amongest all the rest of the scholars and Imaams?!



Rather, that which Allah, the Most High, and His Messenger made obligatory upon the Companions, the taabi'een and those who came after them is the same as that which He made obligatory upon those after them util the Day of Resurrection. That which is obligatory does not vary or change, even though how it is achieved may vary or the amount which is obligatory may vary due to varying ability or inability, time, place and condition, but that also follows what Allah and His Messenger have obligated.

Those who say that it is correct for the common person to have a madhhab claim, 'Because he believes that the madhhab which he ascribes himself to is the truth, therefore, he must be sincere to his belief.' If this saying of theirs were true then it would mean that it is forbidden to seek a ruling from anyone other than the people of his own madhhab and likewise thats it is forbidden to take the madhhab of anyone equal or greater than than his own Imaam and would mean other things which all show the falsity of the beleif in the first place. Indeed it would mean that if he saw a text from Alalh's Messenger or a saying from the four Caliphs with other than his own Imaam, he would have to abandon the text and the sayings of the Compainions and give precedence to the saying of his own Imaam.


Rather, he should seek from whom he wishes from the followers of the four madhhabs and others besides them. It is not obligatory upon him or upon the one who delievers verdicts (muftee) to limit himself to one of the four Imaams. Upon this is the consensus of the ummah, just as it is not obligatory upon the scholar to restrict himself to the hadeeths reported by the people of his land or any land in particlular, rather, if any hadeeth is authentic it is obligatory to act upon it, (*) whether it is reported of the people of the Hijaaz, 'Iraaq, Shaam, Egypt or Yeme." (**)
.................................................. .................................................

The question is why there was a need to create so many madhabs, sects or schools of thought? When you could find answer to every question from Quran, then why one has to develop a different kind of thought and make people follow him. Who creates a new madhabs? I mean is it only the relgious scholars in whose names some maslaks are made famous or there are some classes whose vested interests are protected by new schools of thoughts? For example we know about one of the new schools of thought which was created and promoted to protects the interests of a royal family.

When you could find answer to every question from Quran

But the Quran doesn't answer every single question relating to islam, thats what the role of the prophet was for people to ask him and he would give them rulings and this is how sahih hadith were formed.