That's a very clear statement of your views, TEH, thank you. I still don't understand why music is wrong, though. I've been re-reading the Fatwa you referred me to in the hope of finding some answers to this.
Music is a direct ploy of the Non-Muslims.
Since music itself is much older than Islam, a statement such as this is nothing less than paranoid, utterly without foundation and extremely narrow-minded. It also shows great prejudice against non-Muslims.
It is a psychological proven fact that two things are instrumental in arousing the human sexual desire, one being the voice of a female (for males) and the other music.
All music promotes sexual desire? That is a huge generalisation, and is not even close to being a fact.
In a psychological experiment, it was found that listening to moderate type of music increased one’s normal heart beat, whilst listening to rock music the heart beat increased even further, yet people claim that music has no effect.
I don't think it would be necessary to conduct a psychological experiment to prove this, as the fact that people's heart rates increase when listening to faster music is self-evident. And nobody claims that music has no effect.
In conclusion, music and the instruments used for singing are a cause for arousing the sexual desire of an individual. It could lead a person to adultery and fornication. Therefore, Islam takes the preventive measure rather than suffer the consequences. This is also one of the principles of Islamic Jurisprudence, namely ‘blocking the means’ (sadd al-dhara'i). This is based on the idea of preventing an evil before it actually materializes, and is taken from the heart of the guidance of the Qur’an and Sunnah that, “Preventing harm is given precedence even to achieving possible benefits.”
It could lead to adultery and fornication, but so could lots of other things. To say that because some pieces of music could lead to those sins, we should therefore denounce all secular music as being wrong, seems to me to be highly unjust. There is a whole world of music that is not about sex, does not encourage any sin at all and does not encourage sexual motions, a world of music that brings joy and inspiration to millions every single day; and yet if you follow the advice of Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari, that is a world that will be forever closed to you.
The idea of "blocking the means" is precisely the same argument used by G.W.Bush to justify his illegal invasion of Iraq. He calls it "pre-emptive strike" and personally I think it's one of the most dangerous political doctrines of all time. I believe that reasoning of this kind leads to much more serious trouble than music ever could.
I'm aware that I might sound quite outspoken about this, I do hope nobody is offended by this questioning I have undertaken. Having said that, the Islamic tradition of robust debate is surely able to accommodate such questioning. The reason I'm going on about this is because it's still very unclear to me why all secular music is considered ethically wrong. None of the explanations offered so far have been able to withstand the merest scrutiny.
Since music itself is much older than Islam, a statement such as this is nothing less than paranoid, utterly without foundation and extremely narrow-minded. It also shows great prejudice against non-Muslims.
According to your understanding, when did Islam begin?
"I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."
According to your understanding, when did Islam begin?
With the first ever recital of the shahada.
I know that Muslims believe Jesus, Moses and all the prophets back to Adam were also Muslims, but the fact is that Islam only became a known force on the world stage with the moment I've specified. That is the point when the first member of Islam consciously joined the movement.
ok now bro, what you need to understand is, theis 'blocking the means' policy, is not political, its religious. Now for the moment, lets just get rid of politics and everything, what is your purpose in life? To worship Allah, and to enter Jannah insha allah. If not, then I cant really answer your qs. If that is your purpose, then if something is wrong, as cited by someone much more knowledgable and many many others, then just leave it. True, some of the guys views seem kinda whacked, , but such is life, and well just think about your akhirah...
ok now bro, what you need to understand is, theis 'blocking the means' policy, is not political, its religious. Now for the moment, lets just get rid of politics and everything,
OK, let's keep politics out of it. That was just the first example that came to mind. My point was that the reasoning is the same.
what is your purpose in life? To worship Allah, and to enter Jannah insha allah. If not, then I cant really answer your qs.
OK, fair enough. I am not a Muslim, but I would very much like to try and understand Islamic thinking.
If that is your purpose, then if something is wrong, as cited by someone much more knowledgable and many many others, then just leave it. True, some of the guys views seem kinda whacked, , but such is life, and well just think about your akhirah...
This is the argument from authority, which is a logical fallacy. I believe using our own reason is the best way to examine issues that arise (an attitude encouraged in Islam), and if someone's views appear to be "kinda whacked", I tend not to believe them, no matter whose support they have.
ahh well, perhaps then, I am not the best person to answer your question. And I didnt mean whacked literally, I meant some of the things he says are a bit over the top.
Thanks for your views, TEH. It seems everyone has a view, so the more I can hear about the more I will understand the issue.
Greetings Abdul Aziz,
Do you mean that the reason music is haraam might be because it could lead to physical attraction? That is one of the arguments given by Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari, in the Fatwa linked above.
Brothers and sisters please be cautious about labeling things haram and halal. Somethings in Islam aren't in just black and white. You must take into consideration many things. The Quran says:
{O ye who believe! make not unlawful the good things which Allah hath made lawful for you, but commit no excess: for Allah loveth not those given to excess.} (5:87)
Greetings Callum,
Okay, to clarify it is not neccessarily a form of music's chronological position which makes it better or worse. I just pointed out a trend that modern music is getting worse from an Islamic perspective, although this is not true in every case as you pointed out. So many forms of music today are more obviously haraam, but again it still depends on the content.
And yes, this is a very controversial subject within Islam, so some of the nasheeds we have on the site may be considered haraam by some and halal by others. We tend to view them as permissable especially if they inspire Muslims. I personally detest any form of rap, however I would say that these "Muslims raps" may help in brining youth back to focusing on Islam gradually. However, I can understand and appreciate the various views within Islam on the issue of music.
Where is the agreement? The vast majority of muslims would agree that content which is profane and encourages sinful behaviour makes the music haraam. The majority also agree that the singing of a female singer would make the music haraam as well since it would naturally arouse desires in men.
Many Muslims also suggest that music with an agressive tone or beat can alse be considered haraam because it reduce's one's reason and control over themselves (arguably).
Other Muslims suggest that any form of musical instruments used is not permissable unless it is percussion instruments. Some say that the only percussion instrument allowed is the duff (simple one hand drum). Then there are those who say that it is all forbidden.
Since declaring something to be haraam (prohibted) is very strong in Islam, most people would agree that it is discouraged. I would agree that many forms of music are discouraged, but with regards to being prohibited, I might incline towards the first view if there is any benefit in other forms of music, such as leading people towards God, or inspiring good deeds. But I would still discourage any form of music since I can't fathom any Muslim who is a devout worshipper of God, yet listening to music. Music just seems to me to be leading away from God, some forms more rapidly than others, some forms more clearly than others.
If you read the whole book of Shaykh Abu Bilal Mustafa Al-Kanadi you'll probably get a very good understanding of the reasoning behind the stricter approach: http://members.tripod.com/oum_abdulaziz/music.html
I hope this helps.
Last edited by Ansar Al-'Adl; 08-12-2005 at 05:30 PM.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
Know that in this world, somethings can either save you or harm you, it depends where you place music in that category, do you let music save you (nasheeds) or do you let it harm you (aggressive music) its all a question of the intention....the true intention of what your listening to it for.
Thank you to Osman, Ansar Al-'Adl and Saladin for the links. I found the link Saladin gave to be a particularly helpful guide to understanding the Islamic position regarding music. (Although I'm now convinced there is not one Islamic position, but many variations on a theme.)
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Greetings Callum,
Okay, to clarify it is not neccessarily a form of music's chronological position which makes it better or worse. I just pointed out a trend that modern music is getting worse from an Islamic perspective, although this is not true in every case as you pointed out. So many forms of music today are more obviously haraam, but again it still depends on the content.
I now see what you're saying here. The first presentation of this idea that you gave made it seem like a definitive ruling: "Music gets progressively worse, always." I now see that this is really more of a general view, with perhaps a few particular exceptions.
Where is the agreement? The vast majority of muslims would agree that content which is profane and encourages sinful behaviour makes the music haraam. The majority also agree that the singing of a female singer would make the music haraam as well since it would naturally arouse desires in men.
On the first point, it depends what you mean by profane, but I think for the most part we would agree. Most of the noise residing in the pop charts has more to do with commerce than music, which explains its need to rely on base instincts. Although there are some (few) extraordinary works of music being made at present, in my view the most interesting music is usually to be found in the past.
(On the point about female singers, it's interesting that any potential erogenous effect on women by male singers is overlooked...)
But seriously, there are many different types of female vocal music, from the commercial Britney Spears type, to the deep soul of Aretha Franklin or the operatic virtuosity of Maria Callas. While the first may be justifiably accused of arousing (actually exploiting) male desire, with the other two, any man in the audience with ears would be too bowled over by the sound to even think about sex.
Many Muslims also suggest that music with an agressive tone or beat can alse be considered haraam because it reduce's one's reason and control over themselves (arguably).
Well, rock or dance music might be said to reduce a person's self-control very slightly, but not usually to the point where it becomes dangerous.
Other Muslims suggest that any form of musical instruments used is not permissable unless it is percussion instruments. Some say that the only percussion instrument allowed is the duff (simple one hand drum). Then there are those who say that it is all forbidden.
There's clearly a variety of opinion here, which I suppose is good to see. As a (non-professional) musician, though, it upsets me to think that any appreciation of instruments could be discouraged in this way. Musicians are able to transmit tremendous ideas without any words at all. It's something remarkable to hear, and it's hard to believe there could something essentially morally wrong with it.
But I would still discourage any form of music since I can't fathom any Muslim who is a devout worshipper of God, yet listening to music.
Let me tell you a story about the most intelligent person I have ever met. He was a close friend of mine at university named Mohammed Mohammed, a Muslim from Sudan, whose family lived in Saudi Arabia. He had an excellent view on life, he had very few possessions, and most importantly was never short of friends. He introduced me to the ideas of Islam, and he and I would have religious debates until the early hours, when we should perhaps have been studying. We discovered we both had a liking for blues music, and particularly the guitarist B B King. In his room, Mo (as we called him) had, as well as his clothes, one book, and one CD. The CD was B B King, and the book, I need hardly tell you, was the Qur'an. He used to get pure joy from listening to the CD, but his main passion was the Qur'an. He used to organise groups of us to sit and listen as he explained the arguments about scientific miracles in the text and so on. Although some of us openly disagreed with much of his thinking, this did not matter to him. He was respected and loved by everyone who met him. He is now a successful doctor in the north of England.
Thanks for the links, Ansar, I'll check them out. I'm familiar with Cat Stevens, pre-reversion, but I'll be interested to hear what he's had to say since then.
I'm much closer to reaching an understanding on Islamic attitudes regarding music, but it's clear there's a huge cultural difference here.
czgibson, it appeared that you had made a double post with slight changes, so I deleted the one I thought was the unmodified version. If I was wrong then please tell me,
The issue of music has already been made fatawa on. Everybody knows that there are two major opinions about it. Both opinions agree on one thing, the qawaaid al fiqhiyya said "whatever leads to haram is haram" That includes this forum, if it leads to unnecessary interaction between the sexes, than getting involved in it is HARAAM.
Such qaedah comes from the verse, "wa la taqrabuz zeena" which basically, means, don't even come close to committing zeena, let alone doing it.
We cannot impose a ruling that is not agreed upon ALL SCHOLARS, unless you don't deem Qardawi as a scholar of our time and the others who have made a ruling that music is not HARAAM.
If that is the case, then, it's not really an issue of music, it's an issue of our not subscribing to these scholars' ruling.
The next issue is, are we, on ourselves, capable in refuting the other scholars' views and opinions? If we are, then we should come up with our own proof, not quoting other people because other people's opinions have been noted.
Should we decide to follow that opinion (like some of us who eat non zabiha) then it's OUR CHOICE. We may not impose this choice on other people. Because if we do, we fall into extremism in our judgement and opinion and we all know that Allah Knows Best.
I'm not a music listener myself and not even a nasheed listener. I used to listen and you're right, nasheed and songs MAY NOT replace the ultimate soother, the Book of Allah, but that does not give me the right to judge other people who chose to do it, because every actions fall into the ahkaamut takleef:
If a brother listens to songs that are good and still function as a responsible muslim, keep away from sins, does not neglect his prayers; what's the reason to prohibit him from doing the mubaah?
Takumi Nakashima WattaquLlah(a) wa yu'allimukumuLlah(u)
(Be Mindful of Allah and He will teach you)
There will be people of my Ummah who will seek to make lawful; fornication, wine-drinking and the use of ma'aazif (musical instruments).
Don't we see people of the ummah trying to justify the use of musical instruments when it has been clearly been decreed as unlawful?
Assalaam o alaikum brother
what do you mean by Haraam is Haraam? I have told you that its Only and Only Allah that have authority to announce something Haraam then why are you insisting to call it Haraam when Allah did not make it Haraam. Brother its like "shirk" to announce something Haraam when Allah did not Called it Haraam so brother plz avoid it .
if every musical instrument (according to you) is Haraam then what you say about "Duff"? is this not a musical instrument?
How Muhammad (saw) announce something Haraam when He (saw) has not any right to do it? (according to most of the persons) Hadith is the explanation of Quran and when Quran is silent over a matter then explanation? what for?
Or in your openion islam has two "Sharia" one by Allah and one by Muhammad (saw)
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, but such is life, and well just think about your akhirah...
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