bro Abwan! Truth is something subjective! !
well in that case you give answer to your own question that you asked
Thanks for pointing out about an Ahmadi.. so brother that's exactly my point was!
thats because to them ALSO the hadith is the ultimate truth and no one can deny them on that!! specially the ahle sunnah section!
and once more another section called Shi'te... they have most authentic ahadith to back their claims.
Interstingly I think not many people know that while refuting Shi'tes sec.. most opposing sections end up saying,
PROVE YOUR POINT IN LIGHT OF QURAN ONLY!!
All the divisions and innovations created in Islam have solid Authentic Ahadith to cover them..
for the site .. here's one to digest!
So far i found it to be the most comprehensive in explaining islam in light of Quran and sunnah, of all !
bro Abwan! Truth is something subjective! !
well in that case you give answer to your own question that you asked
Thanks for pointing out about an Ahmadi.. so brother that's exactly my point was!
thats because to them ALSO the hadith is the ultimate truth and no one can deny them on that!! specially the ahle sunnah section!
and once more another section called Shi'te... they have most authentic ahadith to back their claims.
Interstingly I think not many people know that while refuting Shi'tes sec.. most opposing sections end up saying,
PROVE YOUR POINT IN LIGHT OF QURAN ONLY!!
All the divisions and innovations created in Islam have solid Authentic Ahadith to cover them..
for the site .. here's one to digest!
So far i found it to be the most comprehensive in explaining islam in light of Quran and sunnah, of all !
Having had a chance to discuss with an Ahmadi for a while, I realized that the *truth* for them is the works of Gulam Ahmed Mirza...
In fact the irony is that..its the Ahmadis who give utmost importance to the Quran and least importance to the hadeeths..of course they believe in hadiths...but for them..everything is in the Quran..that is one reason why they believe Isa(as) is dead and that Gulam Ahmed is their final prophet..had they even bothered to look at the hadiths like the scholars and ulema did for the past 1000+ years, they would have realized how clear the hadiths are about Isa(as) and the finality of prophethood with Muhammed(SAW)..
Truth is something subjective! !
well in that case you give answer to your own question that you asked
I'm sorry..you lost me there with this ^^ and the rest of your post
I just asked you to provide the links that you found were informative about all hadiths being false (if that's what you meant in your earlier post..if not, you need to please explain your position a little better)
Ohhh dear brother!
when did say ALL ahadith are false??
perhaps you didn't read previous posts, why i started saying what i did?
for people who regard all SAHI ahadith equivalant to Quran..
for me a hadith, as it is narrated by humans, have the possiblity to be wrong... especially if it is going against the teaching of Quran itself !! that's IT!
and no dear Ahmadis Don't go by QURAN only!
i know that for sure cause i had friend who was ahmadi and we used to have long discusions .. i needed proof from Quran alone to justify what they beleived in and they simply can't!!
They had to produce ahadith THAT SUPPORTED THEIR CLAIMS!!
and they have interprated Quran on the basis of these ahadiths only!!!
as for YOUR statement that truth is subjective!
subjective is ..something that is based on or influenced by personal opinions!!!
so what can i say! it's your interpertation of truth which only confirms my point WHY many people beleive in what they beleive in!
well in reality to me the truth is still which is absolute not influenced by personal opinions and effect of time!
Ohhh dear brother!
when did say ALL ahadith are false??
perhaps you didn't read previous posts, why i started saying what i did?
for people who regard all SAHI ahadith equivalant to Quran..
for me a hadith, as it is narrated by humans, have the possiblity to be wrong... especially if it is going against the teaching of Quran itself !! that's IT!
and no dear Ahmadis Don't go by QURAN only!
i know that for sure cause i had friend who was ahmadi and we used to have long discusions .. i needed proof from Quran alone to justify what they beleived in and they simply can't!!
They had to produce ahadith THAT SUPPORTED THEIR CLAIMS!!
and they have interprated Quran on the basis of these ahadiths only!!!
as for YOUR statement that truth is subjective!
subjective is ..something that is based on or influenced by personal opinions!!!
so what can i say! it's your interpertation of truth which only confirms my point WHY many people beleive in what they beleive in!
well in reality to me the truth is still which is absolute not influenced by personal opinions and effect of time!
hope i cleared your mind..
wasalaam
Ok..thanks for explaining...now coming back to the topic which is music...when you said some hadiths could be wrong owing to human errors..did you mean Quran approves listening to music and humans made it haram through false transmission of hadiths?
As far as Ahmadis are concerned... I have already mentioned in my previous post...4:157 is what they refer to all the time and they have their own *evidence* or whatever to prove it..I have had my own share of experience with Ahmadis..So I know a little as well!
Again as I said earlier...*well in reality to me the truth is still which is absolute not influenced by personal opinions and effect of time!* is more or less what that Ahmadi told me and I am sure this is what a christian/shia/jew/polytheist/atheist would say anytime... people believe in something just because they think it is the *truth* No one would ever believe in something knowing it is false!!! you could call it brainwashing or whatever..but the fact remains... talk to a christian and he would claim you are brainwashed..so all this talk about truth, brainwash etc merely holds some face value and nothing else...so I would say its better to avoid such things while posting messages..
Just to settle this little debate (or failing that, to add to it )
Truth is subjective. Fact is objective.
It is a fact that people are being killed on both sides in Israel and Palestine. For Muslims, the 'truth' is that Israelis are at fault. For Israelis, the 'truth' is Palestinians are at fault.
I don't want to turn this into a thread about that conflict, I'm just using it as an example.
As for Hadiths, we should follow the authentic ones and ignore the weak ones, right?
Assalamu Aleykum wa rahmatAllah wa barakatuhu!
Those who say that Imam Bukhari ain't trustworthy is very very very wrong.. hes hadiths are trustworthy!! he was born about 200 years after hijra.
Imam al-muhaddithin Hadrat Imam Abu `Abdullah Muhammad ibn Ismail al-Bukhari was born on the 13th of the Islamic month of Shawwal, 194AH, in the famous city of Bukhara, of the land "beyond the canal" - present day Uzbekistan -. The father of Imam Bukhari, Isma`il ibn Ibrahim ibn Mughirah al-Ja`fi, was a great muhaddith and ascetic from whom he inherited his characteristics of literary zeal and excellence. During his childhood his father died and his mother took on the entire responsibility of bringing him up. Imam Bukhari became blind at a young age. He had recourse to many famous and skilled doctors of his time but their treatments made no difference. His mother was a pious worshipper and a righteous woman. She cried out for help in the court of Allah the Almighty, for her child and begged for the restoration of his eyesight. At last, "the river of mercy flowed over her," and Almighty Allah accepted her invocation. One night, she visited Ibrahim `alayhis-salim in a dream and was told, "Allah has restored the sight of your son because of your intense and beautiful invocations." In the morning, as Imam Bukhari got up from his bed, glimmers of light reached out into his eyes.
His Extraordinary Intellect
Along with his extraordinary memory, he also had an outstanding fascinating intellect. He did not depend on pen and paper as much as he relied on his sharp memory. People examined the extraordinary capabilities of Imam Bukhari in the science of Hadith repeatedly but he always remained successful as a result of Allah's gift of intelligence and superb memory.
Hafiz Ahmad ibn `Adi said about Imam Bukhari: "When the people of Baghdad had learnt that Imam Bukhari was due to arrive there, the Muhaddithin of Baghdad decided to test him by changing the text and chains of transmission of one hundred Ahadith. They joined the chain of one Hadith with the text of another and attached the chain of this Hadith with the text of the prior. Like this, they mixed up the text and chains of transmission of one hundred Ahadith and gave these to people who would test Imam Bukhari with these. "When Imam Bukhari arrived at Baghdad, the people held a gathering in his honour, in which most of the scholars, nobles and public were present. One person stood up according to the plan and asked a question regarding a Hadith with its altered chain of transmission. Upon this, a second person stood up and recited in similar manner. Like this, the people completed the hundred Ahadith and awaited Imam Bukhari's reply. He said that he had not apprehended those Ahadith. When he saw that everyone had asked the questions he need, he stood up and started describing the chain of transmission of the first Hadith that was read and then gave its correct chain. Like this, he traced the faulty chains on the Ahadith of all one hundred set up by the scholars. He had given the correct chains of transmission to every Hadith. When he finished, the entire audience was full of praise and recognition of the superiority and greatness of Imam Bukhari."
salam, fair enough the word music is nowhere daclared haraam in the quraan or hadith if this is ur argument, BUT BUT BUT there is a hadith in which the prophet mentions the fitnah of dajjal, he will come with 2 things to attract ppl, the fitnah of nisaa~~and the fitnah of music! hw will we survive his fitnah if we practise his fitnah during our daily life? does this make sense to u? let me know
salam, fair enough the word music is nowhere daclared haraam in the quraan or hadith if this is ur argument, BUT BUT BUT there is a hadith in which the prophet mentions the fitnah of dajjal, he will come with 2 things to attract ppl, the fitnah of nisaa~~and the fitnah of music! hw will we survive his fitnah if we practise his fitnah during our daily life? does this make sense to u? let me know
Alot of sence brother......it really does.
So like I sed b4....music is haram.....
salam,
Forum rule:
12.This is not a Fiqh discussion board. Prolonged threads arguing over Fatwas and the details of Islamic law will be closed. Avoid asking questions that require a Scholar or Shaykh, as there is no one on the board qualified to answer your questions. Please use other knowledgeable means such as a scholar, Imam or knowledgeable person in your area or provide sources.
I agree with Br. Taalib-e-'Ilm. As mentioned in the forum rules, this forum is not for prolonged fiqh discussions. Music is a controversial topic within Islam and there are differences of opinion amongst Muslims that I wouldn't expect to disappear. Everyone has to follow what they believe is most in accordance with the Qur'an and Sunnah, as understood by the early pious generation of Muslims. We do not simply follow what is in accordance with our desires.
Before I close this thread, I would like to re-iterate what I have said previously about the consensus of Muslim scholars on this issue. Scholars would agree that profane music or music that incites one to do evil (as is most prominent in the western music industry) or music that promotes immorality - all these are haraam. Scholars would also agree that simple vocal songs (nasheeds) calling one to Allah swt or reminding one of the truth, that these are permissable. Between these two categories there is a large grey area. So let every individual focus on what will benefit them in the afterlife.
One of the biggest problems the youth have today is music, a sin which we tend to overlook as nothing sometimes renamed nasheeds, Far as I know nasheeds are allowed as long as they have no Instruments we need to be aware of this issues stated below.
Sahih Bukhari, No. 5226.
Abu'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: he heard the Prophet (SallAllahu alayhi wa Sallam) saying: From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercouse, the wearing of silk, the drinking, of alcohlic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful.
One of the biggest problems the youth have today is music, a sin which we tend to overlook as nothing sometimes renamed nasheeds, Far as I know nasheeds are allowed as long as they have no Instruments we need to be aware of this issues stated below.
Assalamu Alaikum
i hate the fact of the nasheeds naats n nazmays these days all have excessive drum beats and other instruments which is not allowed!!!! and sooo many people think its ok:confused: like on this forum on the post 'Nasheed going 4 free"
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Assalamu Alaikum
i hate the fact of the nasheeds naats n nazmays these days all have excessive drum beats and other instruments which is not allowed!!!! and sooo many people think its ok:confused: like on this forum on the post 'Nasheed going 4 free"
Well stated sis, some nasheeds seem to be a replacment for the mainstream music but in the guise of islam, only by exposing this problem can we move forward.
SAlams everyone
I would like to know how to refrain from music myself latly I havn't listen to any but for some reason I'll be drawn back to it again which i know is not good this is a sin please make duaa for me and my family
jazakula
SAlams everyone
I would like to know how to refrain from music myself latly I havn't listen to any but for some reason I'll be drawn back to it again which i know is not good this is a sin please make duaa for me and my family
jazakula
i put on a recitation of surat yasin by sheikh sudais to help me memorize it better inshallah, and it has helped a lot subhanallah.. i can really get into it.
Try to put on some quran or do something else when u feel like u want to listen to music, also what helps is make dua..like say la hawla wala quwata illa bila *there is no power or strength than that of Allah's* keep urself in reminder that there are a lot of worldly pleasures, but we are not here to attain in them. and one of the punishments is having melted steel poured down our ears.. something like that, ill look up the hadith inshallah.
002.024 But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
Salam,
I'm very confused. I thought that music was an issue that was undecided and that some people think it is ok and some don't. Or that certain types of music were ok and others weren't? Or that some instruments were ok and some weren't? But i thought that as a whole, people did not agree on this.
Can anyone tell me some more about this, and tell me of some surahs which mention this?
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salam all!
)
wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu!
Re: muslims and music
Or that certain types of music were ok and others weren't? Or that some instruments were ok and some weren't? But i thought that as a whole, people did not agree on this.
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