Wasnt one of Muhammad sws wife like 9 years old, why would htat happen? isnt she just a little girl? isnt that like child like marriege something?
So in the quran it says those who disbelieve christian and jews will go to hell, but then it says the christians and jews will be questioned by their books?
When it says in one ayat i forgot that kill the disbelievers when u see them? and does islam allow slavery?
Also why do you beat your wife with like 100 lashes if she isnt obediant to u?
Never thought of the sunnah like that, makes sense though. But only the Qur'an cannot be corrupted the sunnah can, or at least i've never heard of an ayah in the Qur'an saying that the sunnah is uncorruptable, have you?
bro, this is a really detailed subject but the sunnah/hadith have been collected over time.
when they got collected, from trustable people - they got tested to see if the person they got it from was: a honest/trustworthy person. the person had to have a really good memory, there were a few more tests the person had to pass to make sure the hadith was authentic.
they also had to ask who they heard the hadith from and the chain was lead all the way down to who heard it off our beloved Prophet sal Allaahu alayhi wasalam. if all the people within that chain of transmitters were all honest, reliable, good people - then the hadith would be classed as sahih (authentic), hassan (good) etc.
however if the hadith were - da'eef (weak) etc. then they would be classed as weak and therefore not in the sahih collections. (the two famous sahih (authentic) collections are sahih - bukhari and muslim.) so the hadith which you read that are sahih are reliable because they've been tested strongly and all the people within them chains were reliable insha Allaah.
so following the hadith that are sahih (authentic), hassan (good) is reliable. you can search around for sahih hadith off the following site and you'll get authentic/good results insha Allaah.
you can trust them insha Allaah so i'll give you the link, try following this site though because not all sites give the correct information.
finally - yes, like you said, Allaah subhanahu wa ta'aala has saved the holy qur'an from any time of corruption, and it can never be changed no matter what insha Allaah.
jazak Allaah khayr.
Allaah u a'lam (Allaah subhanahu wa ta'aala knows best.)
As akhee said, sunnah is important, there is no islam without it. The kalimah is "There is none worthy of worship except Allah, and Muhammed is his messenger". Half the kalimah is the sunnah
Like akhee said it says in the Qur'an to pray, do zakat, do hajj etc but it doesn't say how to pray, how to do wudhu, how to calculate zakah, how to sort out inheritance etc etc you could go on. If you think about it, how can Allah SWT tell us to do something, which could be difference between hell and heaven, and yet not tell us how it'd done? Why would Allah swt allow weak hadith to be present in the deen on such important issues?
Also bro if you look at the hadith scholars, they were so strict. Wearing a cap on the head is a sunnah, nothing more than that. The prophet SAW never ever said anything about wearing a cap, it's just a sunnah (not moakkadah), yet the scholars of hadith when judging hadith only looked for the most pious muslims in chains of narration. If just once a person was seen to have not worn a cap whilst outside his house their hadith was not valid enough.
There's also a story of Imam Bukhari, he would travel so far to collect just one hadith. Theres this one story where he travelled for months for a single hadith. Upon reaching his destination and meeting the muslim who claimed to have a hadith of the prophet SAW, he observed him. The muslim was trying to get his horse to get back into it's stable, but the horse wouldn't come willingly. The guy got a empty bucket, indicating to the horse there's water inside, so the horse came to him, even though there was actually no water inside. Upon seeing this Imam Bukhari immediately got up and packed his bags putting away his books, despite the trouble he had gone through to reach there, simply because he deemed this incident to be deceitful, and didn't think therefore the hadith would be reliable enough.
Also some sahabah went to spread the message to different parts of the world. If a hadith collector went to all these different places, and each person in the different places would say the same things, then surely there is no doubt that particular hadith is authentic
As you can see bro, authentic hadiths like Bukhari and Muslim etc are very accurate and the collectors of these hadith were very strict, only choosing 100% authentic hadith. For more information go on http://www.muhajabah.com/sunna-yes.htm the site akhee supplied. This is a really deep topic and i've heard brothers who are students of knowledge say that rejecting the hadith is stepping out of islamic bounds and comitting kufr, you can't just rely on the Qur'an, as Aisha RA said, the prophet SAW is the living Qur'an
ehh, Im gonna stick with the Qur'an. I don't trust people enough to believe what they say, let's not forget it's because of hadith that women in Iran and Saudi Arabia have to cover themselves, even though in the Qur'an it says you must give your people freedom. Listening to sunah bothers me enough because it's not the Qur'an, I think I'm gonna stay away from hadiths
Why would Allah swt allow weak hadith to be present in the deen on such important issues?
Only God would know, because we aren't most wise or all-knowing.
were very strict
The Islamic Republic of Iran is strict on Islamic law, yet banks can receive usury(Interest) from the loans they give out to the people, even though there is 6 ayahs that say this is a sin [2:275], [2:276], [2:278], [3:130], [4:161], [30:39]. I think I've only seen 1 ayah that tells women to cover their whatchamacallits and everyone goes crazy about it even though banks are ripping off the people.
All we can do is ask God for guidance. And seeing as to how God is most gracious most merciful, I'm sure that God would forgive you of any sins, even if you repent after you die on judgement day.
rejecting the hadith is stepping out of islamic bounds and comitting kufr
Now it could be me, but I think Islam means to submit to God, the one and only God. As in as long as you don't worship an idol you should be ok, idol's include muhammad, muhammad was not god and I've noticed some people really look up to muhammad almost equal to the way they look up to God.
you can't just rely on the Qur'an
I think this is called blashpemy, not sure though. In the Qur'an it says that you need nothing but the Qur'an
Now it could be me, but I think Islam means to submit to God, the one and only God. As in as long as you don't worship an idol you should be ok, idol's include muhammad, muhammad was not god and I've noticed some people really look up to muhammad almost equal to the way they look up to God.
You're right Islam is all about submiting to Allah and Allah said in the Qur'an, as was quoted in earlier posts, to obey the Messenger (pbuh). So you see by following the Messenger (pbuh) I am submiting to Allah and following what He said in the Qur'an
submitting to me is more like believing in God. The Qur'an explains the perfect way of life, you can chose to obey the Qur'an or you can choose not to. Believing in the Qur'an to me doesn't seem to matter as much as being a good person. Because God is most gracious, God, or at least i think, will love a person who does good more than someone who just reads the Qur'an. Reading the Qur'an is for the people who need extra guidance and want to be careful and love God so much that all they want to do is please God, but not following the Qur'an doesn't mean that God won't love you, I think if you do nothing but good deeds then God will love you just as much as anyone else.
Some can argue that to do good deeds you have to find out what a good deed is by reading the Qur'an.
And let's not forget that some people only do good because it makes them feel good... and are therefor not doing anything good
salam
mashallah well said sis
it is wise and best for you to go and seek knowledge from a learned person like an alim or sheikh, for they can give you knowledge that will not misguide you inshallah
wasalam
Never thought of the sunnah like that, makes sense though. But only the Qur'an cannot be corrupted the sunnah can, or at least i've never heard of an ayah in the Qur'an saying that the sunnah is uncorruptable, have you?
Brother and peace.
You must understand that no matter what, the Quran or even the sunnah can never be questioned. Everything that is inscribed in the Quran is for a reason and a reason only. The Sunnah is established from the Prophet Muhammed(saw)'s life in light that we muslims look up to him as he is our role model. The Sunnah is just a seperate narrative that tells the Prophet's lifetime. On the other hand, the Quran is the direct and final word from Allah(swt), and this my brother can never be question as to how to why this is. As a muslim wether we don't believe it or not we must always stand our grounds as to believeing in the muslim creed through thick and thin. However, I do agree that there is a possiblity that the sunnah could've been corupted all the generations that is has been passed down, hence the fact that innovations have been taking place. That is why some muslims are mislead today. They are exhibiting the wrong type of interpretation wether it be from a sheikh, the sunnah or even the Quran. Or maybe it's just them that have not comprehended the Quran very well and has taken things into their own hands. A concrete example is 9/11. I am not trying to change the subject but if you look closely the hijackers of 9/11 were muslim. They claimed to take the lives of 3,000 people in the NAME OF GOD. This whole phenomenon contradicts the virtual Islamic ways of attribuing peace and this totally distorts the image of how muslims are truly supposed to be looked as! I feel that these muslims have claimed themselves to be muslim but yet they are contradicting the Islamic laws to a very high degree. I feel that this is brought upon misinterpretation from various Islamic rescources. Hence that is what is bringing the whole muslim ummah down! Back on the other hand, the Quran can never be corrupted and even if it is any muslim that tries to make an innovation on their own will be truly punished. This type of practice is called Bi'dah. Whoever tries to change the Islamic laws on their own will have penalities waiting for them. That is why it is strictly important that we follow the true Islamic laws and don go by what someone else says unless you know that person has the true knowledge and that they are educated to a degree where they can tell anybody what or what not to do if they are confused. InshAllah.
Last edited by Halima; 11-22-2005 at 07:12 PM.
Do your charity in the name of Da'wah and help us out
Also why do you beat your wife with like 100 lashes if she isnt obediant to u?
if u wnt 2 learn da transalation of da quraan den go 2 an institute dat teach it bt dnt jst gt an ayat nd nd tke da meaning of it .
100 lash is 4 a women who comits adultry.
I think I read this once, its not just for woman. If a spouse does commit adultery, then the other person can ask for them to be punished by being lashed, but remember that God loves the merciful. It's not evil to tell them to do this, but it's looked up on if you don't because only a truly good person wouldn't punish someone.
Also lashing someone in public is supposed to let everyone know what that person has done. And I don't think it says in the Qur'an how many times your supposed to do it, but maybe it does...
A concrete example is 9/11. I am not trying to change the subject but if you look closely the hijackers of 9/11 were muslim. They claimed to take the lives of 3,000 people in the NAME OF GOD. This whole phenomenon contradicts the virtual Islamic ways of attribuing peace and this totally distorts the image of how muslims are truly supposed to be looked as!
Id say they were brainwashed. No true follower of Islam would start a war or go on the offense as the al-quaeda have. Im sure al-quaeda were fighters for the people back in the day when Russia was invading Afghanistan, but I get the feeling its controlled by the elite rich now i.e. Whoever tells people like Bush, Blair, Bin Laden what to do. You should check up on who the Illuminati is if you'd like to learn about it. Some religious people who learn about the Illuminati say that the top rank(leader of the evil organization) is the devil, I know it sounds weird but Im sure theres things that are weirder than that.
pplzk, it says in the Qur'an that the Prophet Muhammed SAW does nothing of his own will, everything he does is by the will of Allah. The prophet also says this in a hadith. Thus we have free will, and the Prophet SAW ddnt, this way since everything is done through the will of Allah, the life of Muhammed SAW is indirect revelation.
For other prophets who were meant for a certain time, their ppl could see them and follow them. Since Muhammed SAW is the last and final prophet for the wolrd and the rest of time, we all need a universal role model to follow, as Allah says in the Qur'an we have an excellent role model in the Prophet SAW, it's said for a reason. Every ayah is significant, Allah is telling us the prophet is a good role model, and Allah's way is the Prophets way as the Prophet did everything by the will of Allah
Again can i ask you, how do you know how to perform salah, hajj, calculate zakah etc without the sunnah. It doesn't even say pray 5 times a day in the Quran, the 5 pillars come from the hadith. What about all the stories of the prophets AS, a lot of the stories are explained by the Prophet SAW, as is sins of day of judgement, what will happen on day of judgment, and heaven/hell etc
jazak Allaah khayr bro moss. we'll just need to back up your statements with ayah's from the qur'an insha Allaah.
That He may make your conduct whole and sound and forgive you your sins: He that obeys Allah and His Messenger, has already attained the highest achievement. (33:71)
surah najm 53 : 02 - 12
Your comrade erreth not, nor is deceived;
Nor does he speak out of desire.
It is naught but revelation that is revealed,
The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him,
The Lord of Strength; so he attained completion,
And he is in the highest part of the horizon.
Then he drew near, then he bowed
So he was the measure of two bows or closer still.
The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.
Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he saw?
therefore not to believe what our beloved Prophet sal Allaahu alayhi wasalam's statement is to reject Allah subhanahu wa ta'aala's statement.
Id like to start out by saying, thanks for being patient with me and explaining everything. It's realy nice to be able to talk about this subject to take my education even further.
how do you know how to perform salah, hajj, calculate zakah etc without the sunnah
I think your right about that, I looked around a bit and it does say to do these things but never says how. There really isn't any way to know how to do that without the help of Muhammad.
A little confusing why it would be left out of the Qur'an though, but Im sure there is a reason. The weird thing is that there are Ayahs in the Qur'an saying that there should be no hadith because the Qur'an is fully detailed.
[7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.
[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?
There are even Ayahs that condemn those who make hadiths
[45:6] These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?
[45:7] Woe to every fabricator, guilty.
It doesn't even say pray 5 times a day in the Quran
[11:114] You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heed.
[17:78] You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salat) when the sun declines from its highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.
[2:238] You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer, and devote yourselves totally to GOD.
[53:05}The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him,
Qur'an that I read says something a little different, but basically the same.
[53:5] Dictated by the Most Powerful.
This would confirm
Prophet Muhammed SAW does nothing of his own will
therefore not to believe what our beloved Prophet sal Allaahu alayhi wasalam's statement is to reject Allah subhanahu wa ta'aala's statement.
Basically beliving in God would mean to believe in the prophet's action. What's cool though is that God really did dictate Muhammad to be a role model, I think i've read somewhere in the Qur'an where Muhammad turned his back on an old man, but then went back to help him, that's a real role model, one that makes mistakes and instead of continuing he goes to help him. I'll have to look around a bit in the Qur'an to find what surah this is, because I remember that it was an entire surah devoted to just this.
yeah i agree with you, masha Allaah atleast we researching and finding out more from each other alhamdulillah .
referring to the ayah's you mentioned above i.e. (7:52) (6:114) (4:56) etc. these are true and i believe them too.
it mentions:
These are the communications of Allah which We recite to you with truth; then in what announcement would they believe after Allah and His communications? (45:6)
now referring to this, what our beloved Prophet Muhammad sal Allaahu alayhi wasalam said in no way contradicted the qur'an. hadhrat Aa'isha (r.a) even said that our beloved Prophet Muhammad sal Allaahu alayhi wasalam, was a walking qur'an, and obviously they would in no way do/act to the opposite of what the qur'an says because our beloved Prophet Muhammad sal Allaahu alayhi wasalam is a messenger from Allaah subhanahu wa ta'aala and the prophets of Allaah subhanahu wa ta'aala do not commit any sins at all, but they can make mistakes (this is to give people examples of what to do in situations - Allaah u a'lam.)
like you said, this did happen in surah abasa (chapter 80) when our beloved Prophet sal Allaahu alayhi wasalam:
(click on the text to see the explanation of why that happened insha Allaah.)
Allaah subhanahu wa ta'aala says that they could have even revealed the qur'an on top of a mountain.
Had We sent down this Qur'an on a mountain, verily, thou wouldst have seen it humble itself and cleave asunder for fear of Allah. Such are the similitudes which We propound to men, that they may reflect. (59:21)
but instead, Allaah subhanahu wa ta'aala sent a messenger as an example to us so we would know how to lead our lives.
Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much (33:21)
from the ayah above, Allaah subhanahu wa ta'aala encourages us to follow the example of our beloved Prophet Muhammad sal Allaahu alayhi wasalam insha Allaah. if you look into the hadith, most will just give a deeper understanding of what the qur'an says.. none of the authentic hadith contradict the qur'an and if any hadith did contradict the qur'an, it wouldn't be counted as authentic because our beloved Prophet Muhammad sal Allaahu alayhi wasalam would never say anything against Allaah subhanahu wa ta'aala's command.
if Allaah subhanahu wa ta'aala's messenger did say a fake lie against Allaah subhanahu wa ta'aala:
[69:44] And if he had forged a false saying concerning Us,)
(45. We surely would have seized him by his right hand,)
(46. And then We certainly would have cut off Al-Watin* from him,)
(47. And none of you could have prevented it from him.)
(48. And verily, this is a Reminder for those who have Taqwa.)
* Ibn `Abbas said, "It (Al-Watin) refers to the artery of the heart, and it is the vein that is attached to the heart.''
does that help? please reply back if you have any more questions insha Allaah.
wa Salaam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
Last edited by - Qatada -; 11-23-2005 at 10:04 PM.
I think your right about that, I looked around a bit and it does say to do these things but never says how. There really isn't any way to know how to do that without the help of Muhammad.
A little confusing why it would be left out of the Qur'an though, but Im sure there is a reason. The weird thing is that there are Ayahs in the Qur'an saying that there should be no hadith because the Qur'an is fully detailed.
[7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.
[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?
pplzk
You concede that the Glorious Qur'aan does not expound the fundemental issues in the Deen which clearly proves that you're open-minded enough to find the Truth.
Regarding the two ayaat that you quoted, the translation that you have cited is none other than the apostate Rashida who claimed that he was a messenger of Allaah. He translated the word Judge (hakaama) as a 'source of law'. But nevertheless, I will focus on the overal meaning of these ayaat. The classical mufassirun (Qur'aan interpreters) all agree that when Allaah (Exalted is He) mentions that he sent down the Book in detail, it refers to the distinguishment of Haq(Truth) and Baatil (Falsehood), Eeman and Kufr, Right and Wrong. Al-Furqan is one of the names of the Glorious Qur'aan which means The 'Criterion between al-Haq and al-Baatil'. If we had approached your method in explaining the aforementioned ayaat, it would cause confusion and doubt.
[45:6] These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?
[45:7] Woe to every fabricator, guilty.
Allaah (Exalted is He) says in Soorat Al-Jathiyah:
These are the ayaat of Allaah, which we recite to you (o Muhammad) with Truth. Then in which speech after Allaah and his ayaat will they believe.
This ayah directly speaks against those who deny the existence of what He sent down (i.e. Qur'aan). Allaah tells them if they do not believe in His Signs, then what will convince you. What exposition will persuade you.
Ibn Katheer (May Allaah have mercy on him) said regarding the ayaah:
for they contain the truth from the Truth (i.e., Allaah). Therefore, if they do not believe in Allaah's Ayaat nor abide by them, what speech after Allaah and His Ayaat will they then believe in Allaah.
Another point to note is that without reason (sabab), some ayaat might seem contradictory.
For instance, if you tell one who rejects the Sunnah the meaning of the ayaah:
To Allaah belongs the East and the West: withersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allaah, for Allaah is all-pervading, all-knowing (2:115)
He would conclude that a Muslim may face any direction when performing salaat, while it's well known that to face the qibla is one of the conditions without which salaat becomes invalid.
By looking at the circumstance of this revelation, we can determine the reason behind it.
This ayaah was revealed concerning a group of Muslim who travelled on a dark night and they did not know where the qibal was, so they later realised that they had prayed in the wrong direction. They asked the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) about it and he kept silent until the above ayaah was revealed.
A starting point to embark the introduction of the Sunnah and its authority is to read: The authority of the Sunnah
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