Salamoalaykum, I am a muslim convert. For the past 4 years alhamdullah, I have been learning Islam and struggling as a new muslim. At work there is a muslim gentleman who I have become particularly fond of, my modesty and shyness causes me to not even look at him more than what is necessary during work and to just as seldom speak to him. Yet, in these past weeks I have known him I have fell deeply in love with him, I found out his attends an Islamic university overseas and has memorized the entire Quran. His manners are immaculate. I love him so much and wish to pursue a relationship, however, it must be purely Islamic. I am afraid that my shyness and extreme modesty has made him think that I do not like him. After we greet eachother I do all that is possible to either turn my back and avoid him because of my shyness. How can I send him the right message without it being 1) haram and 2) culturally wrong (he is egyptian) or 3) strange.
ok, given my great knowledge and experience in matters of the heart-yeah right? right.-i'll give you three options, each if you follow will lead to a different outcome, all will help, ok ready?
1. talk to him.
2. talk to him.
3. there is no third, Simply go & talk to him.
yes, you're maybe shy and are having butterflies in the stomach, but given his bachelor status-he is unmarried, yes?- he won't be unhappy at all, he will in fact welcome it and feel flattered, believe me, egyptian or not he will-no offense to anyone,this is how the sentence formed-, as this is beyond culture.
of course you shouldn't ask for his hand right away-i can only imagine what will happen-you need to have something to talk about, something to share, to initiate the-marriage-talk. meaning, you have to exchange at least several conversations to let him feel it's ok to talk.
you need to know him a bit better, not just as a guy you work with, people put on their best manners when at work and so on, he seems nice from what you convey, but you still need to find out more about each other.
there always that great wall between strangers, but once you begin talking things will become easier. be yourself, and don't rush it, but don't wait for too long either.
can you talk to someone you know about this? a friend/relative who has more experience, one who can give support/suggestions? that would help lot too.
Last edited by alcurad; 08-16-2009 at 12:59 AM.
Reason: i wanted to.
I am confused.
I thought it wasn't permitted for a Muslims woman to speak privately with a man she is not directly related to.
Should ayn22 ask somebody else to be present?
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
I am confused.
I thought it wasn't permitted for a Muslims woman to speak privately with a man she is not directly related to.
Should ayn22 ask somebody else to be present?
Of course,there is no flirts or just talks without wali or mahram
The egyptians are open ppl(for bad or good),in their country most of the marriages are arranged,they do engagements,so they can get to know each other with a MAHRAM beside for a year or more.
I don't know what is the best in this case,may be close female friend can ask her husband to talk to him about her and a future marrige..
And is not a bad think the women to propose:Maimune (r.a.) propose to the Prophet (SAS) and a slave convey the message (if I am not wrong)
i understand my first post portrayed me as girl just infatuated with a boy. however, i am not just infatuated. he is an extremely responsible person who has a high position in our company and who is an extremely devoted Muslim, mashallah, alhamdulilah.
I am slightly confused here because of the many different responses. I must say that my heart tells me to speak with him. I understand that other people must be present... we are in work with other people around us, so does that still merit this type of interaction as khalwa, as us being alone?
Unfortunately, I do not know of anyone who could arrange anything between the two of us. Please keep posting. the support helps...
Do you understand sister,that this *love* can get you in the wrong path?
Did you hear the story for shaytaan and the monk?
shaytaan says:
1-st:just see,look at him/her
2.go and talk form a distance just for a min.
3.go closer and talk for a min.
4.go closer and talk for longer
5.go closer and talk all night
6.go closer,talk and tuch
7.talk and kiss
8.....
9.....
This is a trial for you sister, pray and fast and seek guidense.
Asalamu Alaykum Alhumdulillah for the beauty of islam and for shairah it pervents fitnahs like this from happening if followed so with saying this
Third: Free intermixing between men and women is a serious sin. His Eminence Mufti Muhammad ibn Ibrahim (may Allah have mercy on him) issued the following fatwa in this regard. Free intermixing between men and women may take place in any of the following three cases: First: Permissible intermixing between men and women unmarriageable to each other. Second: Prohibited intermixing between men and women marriageable to each other. Third: Free intermixing between men and women unmarriageable to them in coeducational institutions, shops, offices, hospitals, parties and the like. A person may think that such intermixing does not lead the two sexes getting sexually aroused. Further elaboration of this case may be generally and thoroughly presented: - Generally speaking, the inclinations of the two sexes towards each other is an inbred characteristic of their human nature. Thus, if such intermixing occurs, the evil consequence of illicit sexual relations
( Part No : 2, Page No: 82)
may take place, for man is naturally prone to desires and pleasures. Moreover, the devil prompts human souls to commit acts of obscene and indecency to fall prey to lustful desires. - Thoroughly speaking, the Shri'ah is built upon the objectives' means. Since women are known to be the natural partners with whom men can gratify their sexual desires, the Islamic Shari`ah has blocked all avenues inviting men and women to violate the rules of legal propriety. This can be manifestly proven through the following proofs of the Book and the Sunnah: As to the textual proofs of the Qur'an, six proofs may be cited in support of this opinion: First: Allah (may He be Exalted) says, Surah Yusuf, 12: 23 And she, in whose house he was sought to seduce him (to do an evil act), and she closed the doors and said: “Come on, O you.” He said: “I seek refuge in Allâh (or Allâh forbid)! Truly, he (your husband) is my master! He made my living in a great comfort! (So I will never betray him). Verily, the Zâlimûn (wrong and evil-doers) will never be successful.” This signifies that when the wife of the Great (i.e. vizier) was alone with prophet Yusuf (Joseph (peace be upon him)), she declared her desire to have sexual relations with him. But it was Allah's mercy that saved Yusuf from yielding to her desire. Allah (Exalted be He) says:Surah Yusuf, 12: 34 So his Lord answered his invocation, and turned away from him their plot. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower. Thus, if men and women are given the freedom of intermixing with each other, they will do their best to win the hearts of each other in an unlawful way.
( Part No : 2, Page No: 83)
Second: Allah orders men and women to lower their gaze. Allah (may He be Exalted) says:Surah Al-Nur, 24: 30 Say the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts). That is purer for them. Verily, Allâh is Well-Acquainted with what they do... Surah Al-Nur, 24: 31 And say the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things)... These two Qur'anic verses signify that Allah orders the believing men and women to lower their gaze. The imperative mode expressed by the verb 'say' in the two verses entails the obligation that both men and women shall lower their gaze. Allah further explains that lowering the gaze is purer for them. Only an accidental glance is allowed. Al-Hakim narrated in his A-Mustadrakon the authority of `Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (may peace be upon him) said to him: O `Ali, do not let a second look follow the first. The first look is allowed to you but not the second. Al-Hakim said, 'It is a Sahih (authentic) Hadith in conformity with the conditions of Muslim and both Al-Bukhari and Muslim did not record it.' In his commentary entitled at-Talkhis, Al-Dhahabi affirmed Al-Hakim judgment. Many other Hadiths are narrated to the same effect. Allah commands us to lower the gaze, for looking at foreign women is an act of Zina (adultery). According to the report of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: The Zina (adultery) of the eye is the (lustful) look, the Zina of the ears is the listening (to voluptuous talk), the Zina of the tongue is
( Part No : 2, Page No: 84)
(the licentious) speech, the Zina of the hand is the (lustful) grip, the Zina of the feet is the walking (to the place where one intends to commit Zina) read it in full here question number 3
Any how it has happened so my advice is to have someone that is mahram talk to him and u do not talk to him and u dont not give him signs and since this Job does have free mixing leave it for The sake of Allah we shouldnt forget who Al razaq is you have some people who will tell u to talk to him tell him we cant forget we are muslims and we have a way of life and we should try or best to live it as it should so anything that is forbidding we should leave it no matter what.
P.S THE mistake has happened and u allowed but the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is nothing like marriage for two who love one another.” Narrated by Ibn Majaah (1847) and classed as saheeh by al-Buwaysiri and by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah (624). but now again there is a way inshallah u understand u are not to talk to him or anyother thing as that and should leave ur job but as for him and what u should do tell a girl friend of urs who has a brother to tell him to ask ur wali for marrige or have ur marham talk to him there is no other way this should happen as far as i know
Allah knows best and may Allah help u to do what is right
"The Human being is an enemy to what he is ignorant of"
Do you understand sister,that this *love* can get you in the wrong path?
Did you hear the story for shaytaan and the monk?
shaytaan says:
1-st:just see,look at him/her
2.go and talk form a distance just for a min.
3.go closer and talk for a min.
4.go closer and talk for longer
5.go closer and talk all night
6.go closer,talk and tuch
7.talk and kiss
8.....
9.....
This is a trial for you sister, pray and fast and seek guidense.
Baarak Allah feeki sis great advice the shaytaan will try in was to make it so u see it ok and islamic when it is clear that a women and man shouldnt talk or sit or even look at eachother. Iblis makes haram look halal so beware of iblis
"The Human being is an enemy to what he is ignorant of"
Sis, simple solution! Just send a messenger (like a sister or a friend) to speak on your behalf. You won't have to compromise your shyness and you won't be doing anything wrong. And if the brother agrees then arrange to meet with the parents. Don't forget to pray isthikhara though.
Edit: Yes, I wanted to say parents/elders too but since the sis is a convert it hought perhaps her family might not agree hence why i said sister/friend. If possible though sis, a marriage proposal through your elders is a perfect solution like the brother below me has said.
Last edited by abdullah_001; 08-16-2009 at 06:14 AM.
Salamoalaykum, I am a muslim convert. For the past 4 years alhamdullah, I have been learning Islam and struggling as a new muslim. At work there is a muslim gentleman who I have become particularly fond of, my modesty and shyness causes me to not even look at him more than what is necessary during work and to just as seldom speak to him. Yet, in these past weeks I have known him I have fell deeply in love with him, I found out his attends an Islamic university overseas and has memorized the entire Quran. His manners are immaculate. I love him so much and wish to pursue a relationship, however, it must be purely Islamic. I am afraid that my shyness and extreme modesty has made him think that I do not like him. After we greet eachother I do all that is possible to either turn my back and avoid him because of my shyness. How can I send him the right message without it being 1) haram and 2) culturally wrong (he is egyptian) or 3) strange.
sister
Well , i can advise you to send a marriage proposal through your parents/elders/uncle etc . I think there must be some one elder who can convey your message to that man more wisely.
In order for the marriage contract to be valid, there must be a wali (guardian) for the woman, but it is not permissible for a kaafir to act as the wali of a Muslim woman, and there is no difference of scholarly opinion on this point.
Ibn Qudaamah said:
As for a kaafir, he cannot be the wali of a Muslim woman under any circumstances, according to the consensus of the scholars, including Maalik, al-Shaafa’i, Abu ‘Ubayd and as-haab al-ra’y. Ibn al-Mundhir said: There is consensus on this point among all those from whom we acquired knowledge.
so if ur father brother uncle so on are not muslims then the next to be ur wali will be
the Muslim qaadi (judge) or mufti or Shaykh of an Islamic centre or imam of a mosque.
so ask them if your father uncle so on are muslim and they dont agree then there is nothing u can do for there is no marrige with out a wali's say and if u really want to and they are muslim u try to convince them in a good manner and if that dont work u have somone else speak to then such as ur brother uncle the Muslim qaadi (judge) or mufti or Shaykh of an Islamic centre or imam of a mosque.
"The Human being is an enemy to what he is ignorant of"
Sister, if you seriously want to marry this person then firstly perform Istikhara. The second step will depend on the results. If you feel you should go forward with this marriage then I'll give you an example and InshAllah that will give you an Islamic approach for this thing. Have all of us forgotten Hadhrat Khadija (RadhiAllahu Anha) and her marriage to Rasoolullah. When she was impressed by his character, she went straight ahead and asked him for marriage. And all these things lowering the gaze and not talking at all, they exist when there's no possibility of marriage and you just talk and stare at that person casually. Looking at a woman and talking to her is permissible between people who want to engaged in a wedlock. Of course, you guys can't be alone. So take your father or mother with you to talk to him. As you're a revert and it could be possible that your parents might be against it, you can go talk to him with a Muslim friend of yours or may be even your friend's parents. I've even read that it is permissible for a man to see a woman with her head uncovered before marriage, it is permissible not compulsory (before somebody gets offended).
EDIT : ^^ Bro Umar's post makes things more clear.
Last edited by Ali_008; 08-16-2009 at 06:34 AM.
If Allah helps you, none can overcome you; and if He forsakes you, who is there after Him that can help you? And in Allah (Alone) let believers put their trust.
Surah Ale Imran : 160
It was narrated that Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him) said:
The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him) climbed up Uhud, accompanied by Abu Bakr, ‘Umar and ‘Uthmaan, and the mountain shook with them. He struck it with his foot and said: “Stand firm, O Uhud, for there is no one on you but a Prophet or a Siddeeq or two martyrs.”
Narrated by al-Bukhaari (3483)
Allah (Subhaanahu Wa Taala) does not inspire seeking forgiveness in a slave whom he wishes to punish.
i would advise the sister to first learn her deen. white convert women are a prized catch for a lot of brothers; many will jump to marry you and make it seem like they are mashaAllah to do so only they turn into thalimoon when married.
educate yourself islamically then marriage will come, inshaAllah. lower your gaze in the meanwhile.
it is true about not knowing anyone to speak on your behalf for arrangement of things though
How can I send him the right message without it being 1) haram and 2) culturally wrong (he is egyptian) or 3) strange.
First offer Isthekhara prayer . If u see or feel something positive , then u can ask your family members , cousins, friends , neighbour , colleagues about it . They can ask that person . If he agrees then he can send marriage proposal to your parents or on behalf of you , one can talk to his parents.
You may also ask your local Imam .
To my knowledge , it's allowed for any Muslim to send marriage proposal to any man directly but u must be careful not to be alone with him .
Keep praying ; so that Allah bless you with a pious life partner , Ameen.
Last edited by Muslim Woman; 08-16-2009 at 08:01 AM.
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
Sister, if you seriously want to marry this person then firstly perform Istikhara. The second step will depend on the results. If you feel you should go forward with this marriage then I'll give you an example and InshAllah that will give you an Islamic approach for this thing. Have all of us forgotten Hadhrat Khadija (RadhiAllahu Anha) and her marriage to Rasoolullah. When she was impressed by his character, she went straight ahead and asked him for marriage. And all these things lowering the gaze and not talking at all, they exist when there's no possibility of marriage and you just talk and stare at that person casually. Looking at a woman and talking to her is permissible between people who want to engaged in a wedlock. Of course, you guys can't be alone. So take your father or mother with you to talk to him. As you're a revert and it could be possible that your parents might be against it, you can go talk to him with a Muslim friend of yours or may be even your friend's parents. I've even read that it is permissible for a man to see a woman with her head uncovered before marriage, it is permissible not compulsory (before somebody gets offended).
EDIT : ^^ Bro Umar's post makes things more clear.
yes it is permissable to look at her hair and there is fatwas on this if anyone wants as for talking to him again u cant be alone and u shouldnt stare to hard Marham must be there a friend akhi is not marham as for Hadijah asking well akhi remeber he didnt get the revelation till after they were married
"The Human being is an enemy to what he is ignorant of"
Sister, if you seriously want to marry this person then firstly perform Istikhara. The second step will depend on the results. If you feel you should go forward with this marriage then I'll give you an example and InshAllah that will give you an Islamic approach for this thing. Have all of us forgotten Hadhrat Khadija (RadhiAllahu Anha) and her marriage to Rasoolullah. When she was impressed by his character, she went straight ahead and asked him for marriage. And all these things lowering the gaze and not talking at all, they exist when there's no possibility of marriage and you just talk and stare at that person casually. Looking at a woman and talking to her is permissible between people who want to engaged in a wedlock. Of course, you guys can't be alone. So take your father or mother with you to talk to him. As you're a revert and it could be possible that your parents might be against it, you can go talk to him with a Muslim friend of yours or may be even your friend's parents. I've even read that it is permissible for a man to see a woman with her head uncovered before marriage, it is permissible not compulsory (before somebody gets offended).
EDIT : ^^ Bro Umar's post makes things more clear.
Um, brother, forgive me for saying this but Khadija (ra) didn't directly approach the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam). She (ra) sent her friend Nafisa bint munia and the whole incident was actually very awesome. She steers the entire situation into making the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) propose to Khadija (ra) even though her goal was to ask the Prophets(sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) hand in marriage to Khadija (ra).
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sister
. When she was impressed by his character, she went straight ahead and asked him for marriage. And all these things lowering the gaze and not talking at all, they exist when there's no possibility of marriage and you just talk and stare at that person casually. Looking at a woman and talking to her is permissible between people who want to engaged in a wedlock. Of course, you guys can't be alone. So take your father or mother with you to talk to him. As you're a revert and it could be possible that your parents might be against it, you can go talk to him with a Muslim friend of yours or may be even your friend's parents. I've even read that it is permissible for a man to see a woman with her head uncovered before marriage, it is permissible not compulsory (before somebody gets offended).
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