Question about Salah and Madhab

I think we need to try and understand that this issue regarding the madahib (which shouldn't be an issue at all) is not a question of bringing a person into camp x or camp y - it's about answering the question in a way that will satisfy the questioner. There's no need whatsoever to get people involved in matters that 1) they have no need to know about (i.e. which are completely irrelevent to the topic) 2) will only confuse them further.

And second point, can we please all move on from bashing the madahib, especially the Hanafis? There was a time when I was anti-Hanafi but when one sits down and studies even basics of Fiqh and how the schools evolved - he gains a respect and tolerance for all the Madahib. Even the Hanafiyyah, the school is vast and very beautiful and Imam Abu Hanifa (rahimullah) was truly a genius masha'Allaah. The more knowledge we have, the less argumentative we become and the less knowledge we have the more argumentative we are. The more knowledge we gain, the more we know and understand our limits while the less knowledge we have, we forget and don’t know our limits.

Just to point out some stuff that worried me:

Sayings Of The Imaams Regarding Following The Sunnah And Ignoring Their Views Contradictory To It

This post is completely irrelevent to the topic on hand. Quoting this shows that the one who is quoting this is completely unaware of the context in which they were said. Let's allow Ibn Taymiyyah to clear that up for us shall we? He said:

“[Imam Ahmad] would order the layman to ask (yustafti) Ishaq, Abu ‘Ubaid, Abu Thawr, Abu Mus’ab, whilst he would forbid the scholars from his followers, such as Abu Dawud (the compiler of Sunan), ‘Uthman ibn Sa’id, Ibrahim al-Harbi, Abu Bakr al-Athram, Abu Zur’ah, Abu Hatim al-Sajistani, Muslim (the compiler of Sahih) and others, from making Taqleed of anyone from the scholars. He would say to them: You must refer to the sources, to the Book and the Sunnah.”

See al-Manhaj 373-376, al-Tahqiqat 643-645, Majmu’ah 20/116, 124-126, al-Mustadrak 2/241, 258, al-Furu’ 6/492, al-Insaf 11/147, I’lam 6/203-205, Mukhtasar al-Tahrir 103, Hal al-Muslim Mulzam… 14, Rawdhat al-Talibin 11/117, Usul al-Fiqh al-Islami 2/1166

The Imaams' Followers Leaving their Views if these Contradicted the Sunnah

With all due respect Akhi, I know you're triyng to help the questioner - but posting this will not serve to help him at all. It only confuses him further or anyone else who does not have a basic knowledge of the history and development of the Madahib. I mean seriously, has the questioner heard of or is even aware of the differences between Imaam Muhammad, al-Balkhi, Abu Yusuf, al-Muzani, the differences of opinion of Salat al-Istisqa which are all mentioned in that post? It will only confuse the reader further!

one thing u MUST keep in mind my bro is that just because these great imams said these statements (above) that does NOT mean that we reject their teachings and throw them all in the bin or out the window.... Nay one learns from them ALL and where abu hanifah (for example) may have given a fatwa based on ijtihaa (comming to conclusions for a topic due to not having a specific hadith on the subject), and other scholars have given a different fatwa BASED UPON A HADITH, we take from the later one, because all of them had the same foundation

By definition when a scholar is forced to make Ijithaad, it implies that there are no clear cut texts that tell him what to do in that situation. Ijithad (which the scholar tries to base on the texts) and the methodology of giving fatawa only from a hadeeth are generally mutually exclusive.

A scholar looks at mutliple things when he gives a fatwa, it's not just let me take Hadith X and say Y. It has to conform to many things including the principles of usool al Fiqh (Quran, Sunnah, ijma' qiyaas), application of those very Usools in a certain madhab (Malikis include actions of ahl al Madinah), conformity and extensive knowledge of the qawaa'id al-Fiqhiyyah (the legal maxims) and more. It's not simply 1+1 = 2.

one imam may have thought that a particular hadith was ahad, when in fact it was mutawaatir yet the other hadith did not reach him..

Akhi, this has nothing to do with the topic. Not to mention that the scholars differed in regards to the categories of the ahad ahadeeth as well as well as the number that constitutes mutawaatir. This has nothing to do with the topic here.

qualifications dont mean anything as shaykh saalih al fawzaan has clearly mentioned. qualifications just mean that u have studies in a place that gives a certificate, there r millions of places (i.e, msjid an-nabawi and masjid al haram) where circles are going on with the top ulama and no certificate is given.... so by the where is abu hanifahs certificate? obviously he has none. so what im tryna say is that certfcts, in and of themselves mean nothing.

So according to you what makes a scholar a scholar?

scared our bro might follow the sunnah, and go away from ur way?

With all due respect Akhi, it is very arrogant to assume that the way you're following is the exclusive sunnah and nothing else.

i know its directd to schlrs & stdnts f knwldg, where did i say otherwise? ths is a misconception ppl have against us. no1 is saying that ANY1 and EVERY! can derive rulings. plz read my words carefully without letting ur emotions drive u t oconclusions.

Then wisdom would have dictated akhi, that one not post that topic here when those reading it are but lay people.

we go to scholars who understand the texts and get from them, and scholars (SACHOLARS!!!) have clearly refuted opinions of each imams respectfully.

Do you know that each of the scholars, including Ibn Taymiyyah start from a madhab?

Refuting is for the laypeople. Scholars respectfully disagree and are tolerant if another scholar holds a different opinion in matters of jurisprudential differences. They have adab, respect and tolerance because their differences are based upon knowledge, not emotions.

IMAM BUKHARI for example, has written a treatise on rafayadain (raising the hands after and before rukuh) and has cleared all misconceptions that it is/was abrogated. so WE are not saying it is wrong just bcz we want to, nay the scholars and imaams have already stated this and we are just presenting to the world that which u may not know due to ignorance.

likewise, the 2 famous imams (abu yusuf and imam muhammad) who where the TOP hanafi scholars who learned directly from abu hanifah, both differed with the imam (abu hanifah) on more than a third of his madhab. and both of these used to do rafayadain!

Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. Imam Ibn Qayyim has said that Raf al-Yadain is an issue which has valid differences of opinion. We don't criticize either party.

Imam bukhari also for example has stated that the hadith about saying ameen quitely is week, likewise with the hadith about putting the hands below the navel. likewise about the hadith which says wipe ur face after ur hands after dua, and the list could go on.

Talk about Hanafi-bashing. One thing you need to learn akhi is tolerance - these are issues which are not from the Usool and as such there can be differences of opinion. Maybe you can care to share the education that gives you the authority to point at other people's practice, one that has been sanctioned by scholars for over 1400 years and say that it is a mistake? You're right in your assumption you make that we should follow the Prophet, but at the end of the day, it is only via the understanding of the people of knowledge that we can be certain that our following is correct.

1) SOME of the fatwaas these great imams have given HAVE been proven to be a weak opinion. maybe if people done more research OUTSIDE of their madhab they would realise this...

And you have done said research? And on top of that, you have the knowledge to discern between both opinions to see which is stronger?

"How do you know that the math-hab way of praying salah is not in accordance with sunnah?" because in SOME cases, there are no authentic hadith to back up the position, and OTHER imams had hadith to prove their position... the SCHOLARS have written extensively on this.

So you're saying that the thousands of scholars in a madhab have overlooked the fact that some of their opinions supposedly don't have evidence? I can't believe you're making such a misinformed statement.

u sed: "Are you aware of daleel from each math-hab?" subhaanAllaah how many times do i have to say that it is the SCHOLARS who do this job, not the layman! u clearly have a BIG misconception about us, thinking that we all (laymen) come up with our own conclusions

But isn't that exactly what you're doing in this thread?

u sed: "Do you know why it contradicts the sunnah and which statements of the Prophet (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam)?"
this makes no sense. y is the sky blue?

It actually makes a lot of sense. If you don't know how and why a Hanafi (or any other) opinion 'contradicts' the Sunnah - then you should remain silent and not make bogus claims.

obviously 1 opinion is correct and the other isn't shouldn't you be finding out which is closer to the sunnah from a scholar of hadith??

That is why you simply have to go to a Mufti you trust and ask him for a ruling and go with what he gives you. Everything else you have no concern with at all.