Maliki Position on Hands During Salah

format_quote Originally Posted by Khaldun

I would like to draw brothers and sisters attention to what happen in this thread, about the question about Shaykh Ali Jabir raising his hand in salah.

This is excatly what happened to Imaam Maalik, he was not able to place his hands properly and let them hanging, then what happened? People saw this and lacked knowledge and started to say it is allowed to put your hands on the side and when asked for proof they would say we saw the Imaam of Madeenah Imaam Maalik doing this. And thus people mistakenly thought that this was the math-haab of Imaam Maalik but it is not.

I was amazed at how this example is almost identical subhanAllah

The Malikis actually have evidence for this position about the hands on the side and Imam Suhaib [having been a student of the Maliki madhab] explains it here:

http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-stud...ides-part-one/

I'm not saying whether putting the hand there is right or wrong, but what I am saying is that it is incorrect to pass it off on the Malikis as if they did not have an evidence for this opinion, which they, in reality, did and do which makes it a valid opinion to hold.

Without making this into a thread about math-habs I would suggest you refer back to the book Imaam Maalik himself authored wherein he himself narrates the hadith concerning how the Prophet used to pray and all of the narrations state that he prayed putting his hands on his chest not a single one says anything contrary to that, it would not be the way of a great scholar like Imaam Maalik himself to narrate hadith and openly go against it.

If you look carefully no where in the article does it actually cite Imaam Maalik himself all of the proofs cited in the article are not by Imaam Maalik but by other people, since Imaam Maalik did not teach the people to pray like that at all, rather it is the math-hab i.e people who came after him and modified the math-hab.

What we say in Fiqh in this type of condition is that this view is Marjooh [weak] and the Raajih [strong] opinion is that which the other math-haabs were upon and which Imaam Maalik would have been upon himself if he hadnt been beaten so severally.

format_quote Originally Posted by Khaldun

Without making this into a thread about math-habs I would suggest you refer back to the book Imaam Maalik himself authored wherein he himself narrates the hadith concerning how the Prophet used to pray and all of the narrations state that he prayed putting his hands on his chest not a single one says anything contrary to that, it would not be the way of a great scholar like Imaam Maalik himself to narrate hadith and openly go against it.

If you look carefully no where in the article does it actually cite Imaam Maalik himself all of the proofs cited in the article are not by Imaam Maalik but by other people, since Imaam Maalik did not teach the people to pray like that at all, rather it is the math-hab i.e people who came after him and modified the math-hab.

What we say in Fiqh in this type of condition is that this view is Marjooh [weak] and the Raajih [strong] opinion is that which the other math-haabs were upon and which Imaam Maalik would have been upon himself if he hadnt been beaten so severally.

If you want I can move this into a new thread because it's a interesting discussion. I mentioned in my post that I'm not saying it's correct or not, my aim is to simply show that there is evidence (7 evidences in fact!) for this opinion. Sh. Abul Hussein's post there clarifies it further:

http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-stud.../#comment-1285

Imam Suhaib replies to something similar brought up by some people in the comments, not sure if you read that or not. The point I'm trying to make is regarding the evidence itself, not whether Imaam Maalik did it or not, because his actions are not a proof in and of themselves. I was merely addressing the point you made which I'll quote, which I personally found to be very simplistic and lacking an understanding of the usool of the Maliki school:

People saw this and lacked knowledge and started to say it is allowed to put your hands on the side and when asked for proof they would say we saw the Imaam of Madeenah Imaam Maalik doing this.

However, the Malikis do have a number of proofs for this opinion, especially via the route of the 'amal of the people of Madinah (which Imam Suhaib mentions as well).

The purpose of what Imam Suhaib wrote was to simply show the non-Malikis that there is textual evidence for putting hands on the side so it's not something that should be made into an issue or be passed off to ignorance on the part of the Malikis, and to show the Malikis who usually face the point you're bringing up that the school in fact does have evidence for it's position. Emphasis is mine.

Asalamu alaykum,
Salim:
May Allah reward you for your noble efforts and sincere concerns. Unfortunately your response, as well as Munir’s above, exhibits an ignorance of the Usol used in the Maliki madhab as well as the adilah. While the Muwattwa is a collection of reports, fatwa and hadith, it does not represent the major reference for the madhab, the Mudawwana does. It is said that if the Muwatta is a book of dalil, then the Mudawwana is the understanding of them.

One of the things I learned from my teachers while learning about other schools is to rely on their relied upon texts and to look at the books which hold their proofs. I’m sure you and Munir both did that, but if you didn’t then for the sake of sincere research and respect of the knowledge, it would be a wise method to follow. Even Sh. Shanqiti, who memorized the six major books of hadith and the Muwatta said, “Putting the hands to the side is allowed, putting the hands on the chest is sunna.”

Perhaps you could share the education that allows you to point at others practice, one that has been sanctioned by noble scholars for over 1400 years and say it is a mistake? You are correct in your assumption that one should follow the Prophet, but it is through the understanding of the people of knowledge that we insure that our following is correct.

The scholar quoted in the Mudawwana is Abu al-Rahman ibn Qasim who said, “I studied with Malik for 20 years. For 18 years I learned adab, and for 2 I learned knowledge. I wish I could the last 2 could have been in adab as well.” He is considered a Mujtahid Mutlaq and listed by the major scholars as a trustworthy person whose narrations are acceptable and respected as the major player in relating Malik’s opinions. In fact, it is AQ’s opinions regarding what Malik said that form the relied upon opinion in the school.

I would encourage you to have a look at Fath al-Bari and see the number of companions that Ibn Hajar lists who prayed with their hands to the side. Coupled with the fact that it was a practice of the People of Medina, the grandchildren of the Companions, I feel very comfortable with the Maliki position. Even Ibn ‘Abdul Barr wrote about both practices, “They are from the Sunna.”

May Allah reward your comments and the research you’ve put in

Suhaib

What I am trying to point out is that this is an error that happened within history which most people are blissfully unaware off.

The founder of the Math-haab of Imaam Maalik was the Imaam himself, the true asl (foundation) of the math-haab is therefore his book al-Muwatta.

I do not argue with you regarding wether or not putting your hands on your side is in the math-haab or not, what I am saying is that Imaam Maalik only did this due to his incapability of placing his hands on his chest, not because he thought it was a sunnah.

All his close students knew that the reason he prayed liked this was due to him having been severaly beaten, this is why Imaam Shaafi'ee himself did not take this from his teacher Imaam Maalik and Imaam Maalik never called towards this. But it was only the people after the Imaam that made this into the math-haab. It was only afterwards that some people misunderstood the Imaam that this started to be understood.

The point still stands that this is not what the Imaam himself taught rather it is what the people after him taught and since they made Ijtihaad we accept their ijtihaad yet we take the position that this indeed is a weak opinion.