Pray isha right after maghrib - Allowed?

**Ramadan90** · 05-25-2012

,

Is it allowed to pray Isha right after maghrib? This is what the local masjid want to do. The reason is that isha is very late and people need to go to sleep due to job/school. I thought it was only allowed when it rains/snows heavily or other extreme circumstances.

Best

**~Raindrop~** · 05-25-2012

It is not permitted to pray both Maghrib and Esha at the time of Maghrib because 'isha is very late and people need to go to sleep due to job/school.'

Brother Abz2000, there is a valid difference of opinion on this matter. According to the Hadith of Abdullah ibn Mas'ood RadhiAllahu Anhu, the Prophet

never combined two prayers, except at Muzdalifah.

Shaikh Abdurrahman ibn Yusuf writes:

There are many ahadith related on this issue and have been discussed by the four schools. The Hanafis have judged all the narrations on this issue to be based on the method of "apparent combining" [Jam' al-Suri] not "real combining" [jam' al-Haqiqi]. This position is based on the fact that we are told to make every prayer on time, and there are ahadith of Ibn Mas'ud which clarify that the Prophet never combined the prayers together [by taking a prayer out of its time] except in 'Arafat and Muzdalifa during the pilgrimage.

The following, which is an excerpt from the Fiqh al-Imam: Key Proofs in Hanafi Fiqh may be useful in understanding the ahadith on this issue:

3. 'Abdullah ibn Mas'ud, Radi-Allahu anhu, relates:

I never observed the Messenger of Allah perform any prayer out of its time except at Muzdalifa. He combined Maghrib and 'Isha at Muzdalifa (Sahih al-Bukhari 1:227, Sahih Muslim 1:417, Sharh Ma'ani 'l-athar 1:164).

4. Another narration of Ibn Mas'ud, Radi-Allahu anhu, states:

The Messenger of Allah combined two prayers whilst on a journey. He would combine Maghrib and 'Isha by delaying Maghrib until just before its expiry time, and performing 'Isha immediately as its time entered (Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba 2:458).

5. 'A'isha, Radi-Allahu anha, narrates:

The Messenger of Allah whilst on a journey, would delay Zuhr and perform 'Asr early and would delay Maghrib and perform 'Isha early [i.e. perform each prayer in its own time] (Sharh Ma'ani 'l-athar 1:164, Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba 2:457).

6. Ibn 'Abbas, Radi-Allahu anhu, narrates:

I performed eight rak'ats together [four of Zuhr and four of 'Asr] and seven rak'ats together [three of Maghrib and four of 'Isha] with the Messenger of Allah . [One of the narrators says,] "I asked Abu 'l-Sha'tha', 'I assume he delayed Zuhr [to the end of its time] and performed 'Asr as soon as it entered, and delayed Maghrib [likewise] and performed 'Isha early.' He replied, 'I also think the same'" (Sahih Muslim 1:246, Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba 2: 456).

This hadith of Sahih Muslim is very clear about the exact description of combining two prayers. The method described by the narrator is jam' al-suri.

7. Imam Abu Dawud has transmitted the following:

The muezzin of 'Abdullah ibn 'Umar informed him it was time for prayer. Ibn 'Umar, Radi-Allahu anhu, instructed him to continue on the journey. When the red of sunset [shafq ahmar] had nearly disappeared, he got of from his mount and performed Maghrib, then he waited until the red had completely disappeared and performed Isha. He then said, "Whenever the Messenger of Allah was in a hurry for some reason, he would do just as I have done" (Sunan Abi Dawud 1:178).

As we can see, the method of combining mentioned in the above ahadith is none other than that of jam' al-suri. It is an agreed upon method which nobody has any argument with. How can there be an objection to two prayers being performed together in a way that does not cause them to be performed either before their stipulated time or after it? Undoubtedly, this is the safest method of combining two prayers, and would be the most suitable way to explain the ahadith on combining.

It is also common knowledge that the Fajr prayer should not to be performed before its time or intentionally delayed beyond it. Similarly, other prayers should not be performed out of their stipulated times either, especially not while considering it to be sunna. This indicates that the sunna method of combining two prayers is jam' al-suri, as has also been substantiated through the Qur'an and Hadith. This is the Hanafi opinion in this issue.

<>If it was permissible to practice jam' al-haqiqi in the event of travel or illness, etc., then why is it confined to some prayers only? Why is it not permissible to perform all the prayers of the day together in the morning before departing on a journey? The reason for this is quite simple. The practice of combining mentioned in the ahadith is not to be taken as jam al-haqiqi, but as jam al-suri wherein each prayer remains in its own time, but are performed one after another....
And Allah knows best.

**Abz2000** · 05-25-2012

Originally Posted by Aisha

Brother Abz2000, there is a valid difference of opinion on this matter. According to the Hadith of Abdullah ibn Mas'ood RadhiAllahu Anhu, the Prophet never combined two prayers, except at Muzdalifah.

thanks for the input and new AND better way of seeing it ukhti, yes, choosing the merging times makes more sense than doing them at wrong times, but the sahih of Imam Muslim clearly says madinah here:

Originally Posted by Abz2000

Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 1522:
Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed in Medina seven (rak'ahs) and eight (rak'ahs), i. e. (be combined) the noon and afternoon prayers (eight rak'ahs) and the sunset and 'Isha' prayers (seven rak'ahs).

not trying to argue with u as you certainly study more than me, but like to add bits that can involve input and make a matter clear.
there is another Hadith i read in Sahih Muslim a few years back which showed the Prophet pbuh showing the extreme possibilities of prayer times, i'll post it when i find it on the net inshaAllah as it's tedious to type it all from the book.

edit: here it is:

Buraydah (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that a man asked about the times of the Salah,
and the Prophet (peace be upon him) said to him: "Pray with us for these two (days)."
When the sun disappeared (beyond the meridian), he ordered Bilal to call the Adhan (call to prayer), then he ordered him to pronounce the Iqamah (call to start the prayer) for the Zhuhr (Noon) Prayer.
He ordered him to call the Iqamah for the `Asr (Afternoon) Prayer when the sun was still high, white, and clear.
Then he ordered him to call the Iqamah for the Maghrib Prayer when the sun had set.
Then he ordered him to call the Iqamah for the `Isha' Prayer when the twilight had disappeared.
Then he ordered him to call the Iqamah for the Fajr Prayer when the dawn had appeared.
On the second day, he (peace be upon him) told him (Bilal) to delay the Zhuhr Prayer until the extreme heat had passed and he delayed it for a long while.
He prayed the `Asr Prayer when the sun was high, delaying it beyond the time he had previously prayed it.
He prayed the Maghrib Prayer before the twilight had disappeared,
and he prayed the `Isha' Prayer when one third of the night had passed;
and he prayed the Fajr Prayer when it was bright.
Then he (peace be upon him) said, 'Where is the person asking about the time of the Salah?'
The man said, 'Here I am, O Messenger of Allah!'
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, 'The times of your Salah are between what you have seen.'"
(Related by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

so directly before and after those points seems to be the most reasonable time to combine when NECESSARY or USEFUL,
that's what i've learned so far
Allah knows best

**~Raindrop~** · 05-25-2012

^According to some scholars, the 'combining' referred to in the Hadith you mentioned in not 'Jam' al-Haqiqi' (combining two prayers at one Salah time) rather, it's 'Jam' al-Suri' (delaying one prayer and praying the next as soon as its time begins). This Scholars who hold this view use the numerous Ahadith mentioned in my post as evidence. But this is a matter for the Ulama.

.......

In this case especially, it's better to err on the side of caution. Surely we can sacrifice a little sleep so that the prayer is established at its appointed time?

**Abz2000** · 05-25-2012

yes, it is true, but i do feel that since we are neither at the equator where it is around 12 hours daylight and 12 hours night, nor at the poles where it is 6 months day and 6 months night, but are in a place where it is not the normal hours but somewhere in betweenm certain exceptions and adjustments can be made, although i totally agree that it is best to err on the side of caution, here is another translation of the above hadith which seems a little different, ( i cant find my part one book with the arabic + english side by side) but it does seem to show an almost passing of the times:

Book 004, Number 1279:

Buraida narrated on the authority of his father that a man came to the Prophet (may peace be upon him) and asked about the times of prayer. He said: You observe with us the prayer. He commanded Bilal, and he uttered the call to prayer in the darkness of night preceding daybreak and he said the morning prayer till dawn had appeared. He then commanded him (Bilal) to call for the noon prayer when the sun had declined from the zenith. He then commanded him (Bilal) to call for the afternoon prayer when the sun was high. He then commanded him for the evening prayer when the sun had set. He then commanded him for the night prayer when the twilight had disappeared. Then on the next day he commanded him (to call for prayer) when there was light in the morning. He then commanded him (to call) for the noon prayer when the extreme heat was no more. He then commanded him for the afternoon prayer when the sun was bright and clear and yellowness did not blend with it. He then commanded him to observe the sunset prayer. He then commanded him for the night prayer when a third part of the night bad passed or a bit less than that. Harami (the narrator of this hadith) was in doubt about that part of the mentioned hadith which concerned the portion of the night. When it was dawn, he (the Holy Prophet) said: Where is the inquirer (who inquired about the times of prayer and added): Between (these two extremes) is the time for prayer.

and of course, there is this famous hadith which i'm sure many of us know:

Allah's Apostle mentioned of the Dajjal one day in the morning. He sometimes described him as insignificant and sometimes described (his turmoil) as very significant (and we felt) as if he were in the cluster of the date-palm trees. When we went to him (to the Holy Prophet) in the evening and he read (the signs of fear) on our faces, he said: What is the matter with you?

We said: Allah's Apostle you mentioned the Dajjal this morning (sometimes describing him) as insignificant and sometimes very important, until we began to think he was present in some (nearly) part of the cluster of the date-palm trees.

So he said: I harbour fear in regard to you in so many other things besides the Dajjal. If he comes forth while I am among you, I shall contend with him on your behalf, but if he comes forth while I am not among you, a man must contend on his own behalf and Allah will take care of every Muslim on my behalf (and safeguard him against his evil). He (the Dajjal) will be a young man with twisted, cropped hair, and a blind eye. I compare him with AbdulUzza ibn Qatan. He who among you will survive to see him should recite over him the opening verses of Surah al-Kahf (xviii). He will appear on the way between Syria and Iraq and will spread mischief right and left. O servant of Allah! Adhere (to the path of Truth).

We said: Allah's Apostle , how long will he stay on Earth?

He said: For forty days, one day like a year, one day like a month, one day like a week, and the rest of the days will be like your days.

We said: Allah's Apostle will one day's prayer suffice for the prayers of the day equal to one year?

Thereupon he said: No, but you must make an estimate of the time (and then observe prayer).....

and the hadith continues.

what i am observing here is that say for instance, someone in the south or north pole would probably calculate the makkah times and pray, since he won't be able to read 5 salats over 6 months, but how does one calculate the times when he is say 200 miles away, or 1000 miles away? and the times are just a little different with every few miles until he lands in denmark or england
surely there is room for discretion here.
that's all i'm saying, that he's praying makkah times at the equator, and at the poles, but in between there are grey areas, and combining seems more reasonable than calculating Makkah times, due to the fact that there are both daylight and night hours every 24 hours.
Allah has placed no difficulties for us in religion and His messenger has also shown room for discretion.
And Allah knows best

**Abz2000** · 05-25-2012

lol it's not just us, even the kafirs struggle with this concept though they evaluate in terms of economy and not nearness to God:
The practice has been both praised and criticized.^[7] Adding daylight to evenings benefits retailing, sports, and other activities that exploit sunlight after working hours,^[9] but can cause problems for evening entertainment and other occupations tied to the sun.^[10]^[11] Although an early goal of DST was to reduce evening usage of incandescent lighting, formerly a primary use of electricity,^[12] modern heating and cooling usage patterns differ greatly, and research about how DST currently affects energy use is limited or contradictory.^[13]DST clock shifts present other challenges. They complicate timekeeping, and can disrupt meetings, travel, billing, recordkeeping, medical devices, heavy equipment,^[14] and sleep patterns.^[15] Software can often adjust computer clocks automatically, but this can be limited and error-prone, particularly when DST protocols are changed.

wot i mean is, that say for instance, someone in makkah can tell the hour of the day just by picking up some sand and letting it slowly fall off his hand and observing the shadow,
but here in england, we'd get sacked for going to work late or leaving early if we worked for a company that requires fixed hours
coz they've calculated and fixed the times with no regard to the sun. the clock IS the sun.

i was looking at svalbard which is too extreme, however sweden is a good example where there can be a huge difference in opinion, and combining seems to be the only solution:

sweden 2 - Pray isha right after maghrib - Allowed?

sweden 2 - Pray isha right after maghrib - Allowed?

in January the sun rises in stockholm at 8:47am and sets at 2:55pm while in kiruna darkness 24 hours
in the same country, one can go by the sun, one can combine, and one has to calculate.
it's a nice example of where one has to exercise discretion.

we obviously don't have to go that far in the uk since we still have a good few hours, but combining doesn't seem a bad idea if a mosque wants to do it.

**~ Sabr ~** · 05-26-2012

Stop arguing abz brother, sis Aisha is a scholar, I think she will know more than us.

**Imaduddin** · 05-26-2012

Salams to everyone.

I don't know how helpful this will be but the merging of prayers is permissible only by the one who is a traveler.

Dhuhr and Asr are allowed to be prayed one after the other either in the time of Dhuhr or in the time of Asr.
Maghrib and Isha are allowed to be prayed together either on the time of Maghrib or at that of Isha.

When the situation/circumstances become difficult then I know one hadith in that regard.

Ibn Abbas ordered the Muadhin (Muazin) to change the words of the Adhan 'Come to Prayer' to 'Pray at home' during one Salah. It was raining in Madinah and he didn't want the people to get dirty from the mud and then enter the Masjid in such a state, so instead he ordered them to pray at home.

If anyone wants that hadith let me know and I will post it Insha Allah, it is from Sahih Bukhari.

I hope that is helpful.

**Imaduddin** · 05-26-2012

OK I have no idea how to delete or edit my above post, however, I found an answer to the question which has been answered by Shaykh Yusuf Al Qaradawi:

Not allowed to post links so here's the whole text instead:

Combining Salah for a Need

Q - Scholars of Islam, As-Salamu `alaykum. I’d like to know when salah (prayers) can be combined for reasons other than necessities. Jazakum Allah khayran

A - Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Brother, first of all, we’d like to say that we are impressed by your question, which emanates from a thoughtful heart. May Allah Almighty help us all adhere to the principles of this true religion, Islam, and enable us to be among the dwellers of Paradise in the Hereafter. Ameen.

As for your question, following is the Fatwa issued by the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, on combining prayers:

“Salah (prayer) is a religious duty that has specified times. Allah says: “Verily, the prayer is enjoined on the believers at fixed hours.” (An-Nisa’: 103)

These fixed hours have come to be recognized by way of following the actual practice of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). So, each of the five prayers has its own time limit that should not be violated, whether by doing the salah ahead of it, which, is prohibited and categorically unacceptable, or by exceeding it and doing the salah after it unless there is an acceptable excuse. Otherwise, one commits a sin by so doing.

Anyhow, it is out of this religion's ease and practicality that it makes it permissible to combine two prayers, i.e., Zuhr and `Asr together and Maghrib and `Isha’ together, whether by offering the second at the time of the first or by delaying the first to the time of the second, on account of some reasons, including travel, as proven by the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Following are some other reasons accepted for such permissibility:

1. Rain, mud, snow, violent wind and storms, as well as any similar inclement weather conditions or natural disasters that prevent people from performing each salah on time except through formidable pain and trouble.

2. Need or fear. This is meant to remove pain and trouble from people, as indicated in the hadith, narrated by Ibn `Abbas. Imam Muslim narrated on the authority of Ibn `Abbas (may Allah be pleased with them both) that he said, “The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) has often combined Zuhr and `Asr, and Maghrib and `Isha’, for no fear or travel.”

Another version of the hadith reads, “The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) combined Zuhr and `Asr, and Maghrib and `Isha’, in Madinah under no circumstances of fear or rain.” Ibn `Abbas was asked, “So, why did he do that?” He answered that he (the Prophet) wanted to remove hardship and troubles off his nation.

In the version of `Abdullah Ibn Shaqiq, it was stated that Ibn `Abbas one day delivered a sermon in the afternoon until the sun set and the stars began to appear in the sky, so people kept saying: “The prayer! The prayer!” And a man from the tribe of Tamim walked towards him and said vehemently: “The prayer! The prayer!” Ibn `Abbas replied: “Are you going to teach me the Sunnah? What a fool you are!” Then he said: “I've seen the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) combine Zuhr and `Asr, and Maghrib and `Isha’.” The narrator, `Abdullah Ibn Shaqiq, went on to say: “I felt uneasy, so I went to Abu Hurayrah and asked him about that and he confirmed the validity of what Ibn `Abbas said.” (Sahih Muslim)

This explanation from Ibn `Abbas means that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) wanted to allow his nation more ease and facility rather hardship, since Allah the Almighty has not laid upon Muslims in religion any sort of hardship and He intends for them ease and does not want to make things difficult for them.
This hadith also stands as explicit evidence for the permissibility of combining two prayers for necessity.

Imam Ibn Sireen was reported as saying that he did not see any objection to doing so, as long as there is a need for it, unless people turn it into a habit. Likewise, Ibn Shibrima held the same opinion. In his Fath Al-Bari, Ibn Hajar said that many Imams — including Ibn Sireen, Rabi`a, Ash-hab, Ibn Al-Mundhir and Al-Qaffal Al-Qabir — held the opinion that the tradition in question may be applied literally; hence they saw it permissible for any Muslim to combine prayers while not traveling for whatever genuine need without restrictions, but on the condition of not taking it as a habit in itself.

The Hanbali jurists have permitted for the Muslim to combine prayers once in a while due to certain excuses. So, if there is a burden in praying the obligatory prayers at the appointed time, combining is allowed, on the condition that the person does not take it as habit or as something done every two or three days or whenever he wants to go out on different occasions, a few times a week or a number of times a month. But this is permitted only some of the time, not all of the time, so that it can remove the burdens and hardships which face the people.

For example, if a traffic policeman has his shift beginning before Maghrib and continues until after `Isha', then he can combine Maghrib and Isha'. Similarly, if a doctor has to perform an urgent medical operation, he is allowed to make an early or delayed combination.”

An eminent scholar of Bahrain, Sheikh Nizam Ya`qubi, adds:

“Allah states clearly in the Qur'an that each prayer has its own prescribed time, “Verily, the prayer is enjoined on the believers at fixed hours.” (An-Nisa’: 103) So this means that each prayer must be performed at its own prescribed time.

However, this rule is relaxed in cases of necessity and ample need. For example, traveling, sickness, warfare, rain and bad weather, etc. I must emphasize here that this rule should be taken only in difficult situations and not to make it a regular habit. There are many hadiths which mention punishment for those who delay their prayers without acceptable reason.”

If you are still in need of more information, don't hesitate to contact us. Do keep in touch. May Allah guide us all to the straight path!

**~ Sabr ~** · 05-26-2012

Jazaak Allaah Khayr !

**Imaduddin** · 05-26-2012

Since the view of Qaradawi is different to that of what sister Aisha has posted which is of the Hanafi Madhhab, I see that the Masjid of the brother from Sweden doesn't follow the Hanafi Madhhab but instead one of the other 3 which Qaradawi follows also. Just thought I'd point that out.

**Abz2000** · 05-26-2012

Stop arguing abz brother, sis Aisha is a scholar, I think she will know more than us.

Sister, I find your post to be rude, and irrelevant to the topic.
There are ways of communicating with people without telling them what to do, one can make clear wot they themselves would do more easily, and one would do good to study the difference between discussion and argument.
.

Anyway, this is a forum, the point of which is discussion and input.
And if I find the sister makes a mistake or quotes a mistaken Hadith, there is nothing wrong with adding a correction, scholars are people like us too.
We are not a nation of blind followers, we are a nation of thinkers, we cannot hold our scholars responsible on the day of judgement nor will they take responsibility.

The question at hand was regarding the combining of prayers in times of very long day and very short night,
It is not Arabia and Islam has spread to remote regions of the planet,
We do sometimes need to exercise the mind and not become like the previous nations.

The sister herself has not argued against the point either stating that there is a valid difference of opinion on the topic, and I'm sure if u travelled to a country where they have two hours of daylight you would understand the concept a little better,
Peace,
Ur brother Abz

Btw

I like ur other posts though

**~ Sabr ~** · 05-26-2012

I'm really sorry if that came across as being a rude post, please forgive me InshaAllaah. I was just trying to put the point across of sis Aisha being a scholar.

**Abz2000** · 05-26-2012

No worries Ukhti, I hope I wasn't sharp in making my point either, I do feel I was, please forgive me if I that was the case.
Anyways!
Now that's past

I want sister aisha to tell me wot she'd do in a two hour day

sweden3 2 - Pray isha right after maghrib - Allowed?

**Ramadan90** · 05-26-2012

Okey, I guess it is not allowed then? What can I do if my local masjid still want to do it? I dont want to tell this the Imam because he is much older than me and I am afraid that he will get angry or something. Can I pray at home and still get the reward?(1 salah x27)

**Abz2000** · 05-26-2012

When we were doing ramadan tarawih at east London mosque, they'd do witr at the end, the on the last ten nights, they'd do qiyam-ul-lail at 3 am too.
But when they stood for Witr after qiyam, I went home coz I had read the Hadith "laa wiraane fillayl" "no two witrs in one night",
The imam must've noticed some people doing this coz the next day he explained the Hadith, and said that if one planned to come to qiyam, then at the end of tarawih, they could still join the imam, but make intention for nafl, then when the imam finished the third rakah, they could stand and complete a fourth (since these come in units of 2/4.
And if they weren't sure they'd make qiyam, they should do Witr, then if they still made it to qiyam, they could make the nafl 4 rakahs instead of Witr at the end.
This seemed like a nice solution since I didn't like to miss out while others prayed.

And Allah knows best.

**ardianto** · 06-20-2012

Assalamu'alaikum

Originally Posted by Allah<3

Okey, I guess it is not allowed then?

I am not capable to say, allowed or not allowed.

What can I do if my local masjid still want to do it? I dont want to tell this the Imam because he is much older than me and I am afraid that he will get angry or something.

They combine these two salah in maghrib time, aren't they?. Perform salah maghrib with them, then out from the row and let them perform salah isha without you. If imam or other jama'ah ask you why, tell them that you feel more comfortable if you perform salah isha in isha time. Would they angry or would they understand, I don't know. But, do not ever criticize (or questioning about) the imam decision to combine these two salah. It's for prevent the conflict between you and imam or other jama'ah.

Can I pray at home and still get the reward?(1 salah x27)

Allah is always fair. You must believe it.