The way in which women pray is the same as the way in which men pray

Obviously if any of us here read ahadith on their own, we wouldn't extract rulings from them, inshaAllah. We leave that to the 'ullema.

May I ask akhee, who wrote that? I see you have put it in italics. Is that because this is a quote? Clarify for me inshaAllah.

And Imam Ash-Shafi'ee is a man, like any other man. The quote says:

As we stated before, Ibn 'Abbas and the reports from 'Aa'ishah contradict the opinion of Ibn 'Umar and those with their opinion. Thus, the opinion of Ibn Umar is not accepted unless supported with proof from the mouth of the beloved Messenger Muhammad (s).

Then isn't the case even more so for those lesser than the companions, such as the tabi'een and the tabi' tabi'een, and those of the later generations?

Bearing in mind, does a common person have enough knowledge to know that there is no other stronger Hadeeth that this ruling? Does the layman have enough knowledge to understand why Imam Shafi’ee uses that Hadeeth as Hujjah and Imam Abu Hanifah uses this?

I agree. So inshaAllah let the layperson follow the scholar he feels is most correct in this issue.

In The Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful

format_quote Originally Posted by Al Madani

Jazakallah Khayr, but the majority opinion of the scholars, amongst who are those of the calibre of An-Nawawi, Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Qayyim, is that the layman ('aami) has no Madhab. He asks any trustworthy mufti and makes Taqlid of him, thus it is said that the madhab of the layman is the madhab of his mufti. A person selects a Madhab for himself when he begins studying Fiqh.

http://www.islamicboard.com/477932-post15.html

y do we make such a big deal about Taqleed. If you are allowed to make indirect Taqlid of a Madhab through your Mufti then y r we making so much fuss about it to the point of creating more disunity within the Ummah.
I will not argue against what the great scholars of the past (may Allah have mercy on them) as those mentioned above, have said regarding this matter since my knowledge and status with Allah, Az wa Jal, compared to theirs is less than the size of an ant. May Allah forgive me. Ameen.
But Taqleed is not haram. http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...main_cat_id=16

brother Madani, plz forgive me if I offended you in anyway. and correct me as I am still learning.

Anyways here is the evidence from Hanafi scholars regarding the differences in Salah.

"Q.) I know that during Sajda, the women are supposed to have their fore arms including the elbow flat on the ground, according to the Hanafis. Could you provide some hadith supporting this view and explain how this came about. Could you also offer an explanation of how the admonition that keeping elbows on the ground is like imitating a dog is pertaining to men. Jazakullah Khair for your time. [Sanzid Rabby]

A.) Woman have been told to contract during the prostration. It is related from Ali, Radi-Allahu anhu, that when a woman prostrates, she should contract and join her thighs together (Musannaf ibn Abi Shayba, Musannaf Abd al-Razzaq). Ibn 'Abbas, Radi-Allahu anhu, was asked about the prayer of a woman. He said, "She should contract and come together" (Musannaf ibn Abi Shayba). It is related from Hasan Basri (may Allah have mercy on him) that a woman should contract in prostration" (Musannaf ibn Abi Shayba). Likewise, Ibrahim Nakh'ay said, "When a woman prostrates she should join her stomach to her thighs and not raise her buttocks and she should not separate [her limbs] as men do. Imam Abu Dawud relates in his Marasil from Yazid ibn Habib that the Messenger of Allah passed by two woman who were praying. He said to them, "When you pray join part of your body to the ground, for women are not like men in this regard. Imam Shafi'i writes in Al-Umm "A man and woman in regards to remembrance and salat are the same, except that I instruct that they be more concealing than men in ruku' and prostration by joining their limbs together. A similar opinion has been related from Imam Ahmad, and such is also the Hanafi opinion.

As far as the following hadith is concerned in which the Messenger of Allah Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam said, "Be reposeful in prostration and do not rest your forearms on the ground as a dog does," (Bukhari, Muslim), this prohibition does not extend to women since they have been instructed to contract in prostration, which includes placing the arms on the ground. This is further supported by a version of this narration in Sahih Muslim, which states that "the Messenger of Allah Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam prohibited that a man spread his forearms like a beast" -hence, excluding women (see Radd al-muhtar 1:432).

And Allah knows best.
http://www.albalagh.net/qa/0083.shtml"

Chapter 4 – Proofs from Prophetic Hadiths
Imam Bayhaqi has mentioned a principle which is the basis of the differences found in the salah of males and females.
He says:
"The separating factor between the laws of salah of males and females is that of concealment . A woman is commanded to do all those actions which are more concealing for her. " (as-Sunan al-Kubra alil-Bayhaqi: vol. 2 p 222)
RAISING THE HANDS
Hafidh Nur ud-Din Haythami states:
Wa'il ibn Hujr states that Rasulullah said to him, "O Ibn Hujr, when you perform salah, raise your hands till your ears while a woman should raise her hands till her chest . "
(Majma' uz-Zawaa'id: vol. 2 p 103, and I'laa us-Sunan: vol. 2 p 156)
Imam Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Shaybah narrates:
"Abd Rabbih Ibn Zaytun said that he saw Umm ud-Dardaa raising her hands parallel to her shoulders when beginning salah. "
(al-Musannaf li-Ibn Abi Shaybah: vol. 1 p 239)
Ibn Abi Shaybah has also narrated:
"`Ataa was asked how a woman should raise her hands in salah. He replied that she should raise them till her breast " (Ibid)
Based at Makkah, Ataa [the great Follower (tabi`i) and imam] used to issue this fatwa.
Ibn Abi Shaybah narrates:
"Hammad ibn Salamah al-Basri used to say that a woman should raise her hands parallel to her breast when beginning salah. "
(Ibid)
Hammad was based at Kufa and he used to issue this fatwa.
The narration of Ibn Jurayj has been mentioned as follows:
Ibn Jurayj said, "I asked Ataa whether a woman should gesture with her hands like a male when making takbir. Ataa replied that she should not raise her hands like a male. Then he practically indicated with his hands how it should be done by lowering his hands and drawing them very close to his body. Then he said, "In the raising of the hands, a woman is unlike a man . And if she leaves that, there is no harm. ""
The Muslim Ummah continued this practice over the centuries. Imam Zuhri used to issue the same fatwa in Madinah.
PLACING THE HANDS
Allamah Abdul-Hayy Luckhnawi writes:
"As for women, the jurists are unanimous that it is sunnah for them to place their hands on their bosoms. "
(as-Si'aayah: vol. 2 p 152)
There is ijmaa' on this mas'alah.
SAJDAH
Imam Abu Dawud has narrated the following hadith in his Maraaseel:
(Arabic text)
Translation:
"Yazid ibn Abi Habib states that Rasulullah passed by two women who were performing their salah. He said to them, "When you prostrate, then make the parts of your body touch the ground because a woman is unlike a man in these aspects. " (Maraaseel Abi Dawud p 118; and its like in as-Sunan al-Kubra alil- Bayhaqi: vol. 2 p 223)
Imam Bayhaqi narrates the following hadith:
Abdullah Ibn Umar reports that Rasulullah said, "When a woman sits during salah, she should place her one thigh over the other and when she prostrates, she must attach the stomach to her thighs so that is more concealing for her. Indeed, Allah looks at her and tells the angels, "O My angels! Bear witness hat I have forgiven her. ""
(as-Sunan al-Kubra alil-Bayhaqi: vol. 2 p 223)
Imam Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Shaybah narrates the following statement of Ali:
"It is reported that Ali said: "When a woman performs salah, she must practise ihtifaaz and keep her thighs close together. ""
(al-Musannaf li-Ibn Abi Shaybah: vol. 1 p 270, and it has been taken many ways, Abdur-Razzaq has taken it from Isra'il from Abu Is'haq from Harith from Ali and Ibn Abi Shaybah took it from Abul-Ahwas from Abu Is'haq and Bayhaqi took it from Abul-Ahwas, with the mentioned sanad)
Imam Abdur-Razzaq has quoted the following hadith in his Musannaf:
Ali says, "When a woman prostrates, she must practise ihtifaz and keep her thighs close to her stomach. "
(al-Musannaf li-Abdir-Razzaq: vol. 3 p 138)
"Ihtifaaz": to lean on one side and rest on the posterior.
(See Lugaat al-Hadith: vol. 1 p 98)
The following narration has been quoted by Bayhaqi:
"Ali said: " When a woman performs sajdah she must keep her thighs close together. ""
(as-Sunan al-Kubra alil-Bayhaqi: vol. 2 p 222)
The following narration appears in Kanz ul-Ummal:
"Ibn Umar states that when a woman prostrates, she must let her stomach touch her thighs in order to make herself completely concealed. "
(Kanz ul-Ummal: vol. 4 p 117)
Imam Ibn Abi Shaybah narrates:
"Ibrahim says that when a woman prostrates she should join her thighs to her stomach without raising her posterior and without stretching her limbs out like a male. "
(al-Musannaf li-Ibn Abi Shaybah: vol. 1 p 270)
The following words have been narrated by Ibrahim Nakha'i:
"Ibrahim said that when a woman prostrates she must draw her thighs inwards and place her stomach on them. " (Ibid)
Mujaahid:
"Muhaahid used to dislike that a man attach his stomach to his thighs as a woman does. "
(Ibid)
Hasan al-Basri:
"Hishaam reports from Hasan who says that woman should draw herself closely together in sajdah. "
(Ibid)
Imam Abdur-Razzaq narrates:
Ibrahim says, "A woman used to be commanded to place her arm and her stomach on her thigh when she goes into sajdah and not to spread her limbs out as a male does so that her buttocks are not raised. "
(al-Musannaf li-Abdir-Razzaq: vol. 3 p 138)
Allamah Muhammad Taahir al-Gujaraati narrates:
"When a lady performs salah, she must contract herself when she sits down and when she goes into sajdah and she must not spread her limbs out. "
(Majma' Bihar l-Anwaar: vol. 1 p 521)
Based on these narrations, the Fuqahaa have issued the following ruling:
"A woman should contract herself in sajdah and join her stomach to her thighs because this is more concealing for her. "
(al-Hidaayah: vol. 1 p 53)
THE SITTING POSITION
It is mentioned in the Musnad of Imam Abu Hanifah rahimahullah:
"Abdullah ibn Umar was asked how women performed their salah during the era of Rasulullah. He replied that initially they performed tarabbu'. Then they were ordered to themselves close together ad lean onto one side by resting on their left buttocks and completely contracting themselves. "
(Jaami' ul-Masaaneed: vol. 1 p 400)
Taraabu' is to sit cross legged. This narration indicates that initially the women sat in the position of tarabbu' but this command was later abrogated and they were ordered to draw themselves close together and lean onto one side by resting on their left buttocks and completely contracting themselves.
Sheikh Abu’l-Wafaa Afghaani writes:
"This is the most authentic narration of this chapter i.e. the sitting position of women . It is for this reason that Imam Abu Hanifah has made it the basis of his madh'hab. "
(Ta'leeqash-Sheikh Abul-Wafaa Afghaani ala Kitab il-Aathaar lil-Imam Muhammad ash-Shaybaani: vol. 1 p 208)
Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Shaybah narrates:
When Ibn Abbas was asked about the salaah of a woman, he replied, "She must draw herself close together and lean onto one side by resting on her left buttock. "
(al-Musannaf li-Ibn Abi Shaybah: vol. 1 p270)
in another narration of Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah (vol . 1 p270), one finds the following words: (Arabic text)
Translation: Ibrahim said: "A woman should sit in salah as a man does. "
This quotation indicates permissibility. However, Naasir ud-Din al-Albaani has interpolated the words of this narration thus:
"A woman should so as a man does in salah. "
(Sifatu Salatin-Nabiy p 207)
This interpolation has clearly changed the meaning of the words and is a misleading act.
The following narration is also quoted by Ibn Abi Shaybah:
Khalid ibn Lajlaaj said that women were commanded with tarabbu' when they sat in salah and they should not sit like men on their buttocks. That is in order that nothing happens. "
(al-Musannaf li-Ibn Abi Shaybah: vol. 1 p 270)
The Fuqahaa took these narrations into consideration and delivered
the following ruling:
"A woman should sit on her left buttock and position her legs out on her right hand side because that is more concealing for her. "
(al-Hidaayah: vol. 1 p 55)
The above narrations indicate that Ibrahim Nakha'i used to issue the fatwa in Kufain accordance with this practise, while in Madinah Mujhaahiddid likewise as did Hasan Basri in Basrah.
These ahaadith and aathaar clearly indicate that the salah of females differs from that of males
Chapter 5 – What the Fuqaha Say
The Hanafi Madh-hab
Allaamah Muhammad Amin Ibn Abidin as-Shami rahimahullah:
"A woman should not raise her hands till her shoulders. She should not take her hands out of her sleeves. She should place one palm over the other on her breast . She should bend only slightly in ruku'. She will not spread her fingers out in ruku' but rather keep them close together and place her palms on her knees without clasping them. She should bend her knees slightly. She should contract herself in ruku' and sajdah. She should place her arms flat on the ground. She should sit with her legs out and resting on her posterior in tashahhud. In tashahud she should keep her fingers close together. If any mistake occurs in salah, she should clap her hands without uttering anything. She cannot make imamah of a male. It is makruh to have a female only congregation. The female imam will stand in their midst. It is makruh for her to attend the congregation. In a mixed congregation the females will stand at the rear. Jumu'ah is not obligatory for her, but if she attends it, she will be absolved of responsibility. Neither is Eid compulsory on her nor the takbir of tashriq. It is not mustahab for her to perform Fajr when it brightens up. In the loud salahs she will not raise her voice. "
(Radd al-Mukhtaar: vol. 1 p 504; see al-Bahr ar-Raa'iq: vol. 1 320)
He says in another place:
"A woman should bend slightly in ruku; without spreading her fingers out completely. However, she must contract herself and place her palms on her knees and bend them slightly . She must not spread out her arms as this is more concealing for her. "
(Ibid p 494)
Mulla Ali Qaari rahimahullah:
"A woman will raise her hands till her shoulder (when performing takbir tahrimah). "
(Fath bab al-`Inayah bi-sharh an-niqayah: vol. 1 p 239, see p 242, 262 and 265; and al-Fataawaa al-Aalamkiriyyah: vol. 1 p 73
Allaamah Badr ud-Din al-Ayni:
"According to Umm ud-Dardaam Ataa, Zuhri and Hammaad and others, a woman should raise her hands till her breasts. "
(al-Binayah fi sharh al-Hidaayah: vol. 2 p 187)
Muhammad ibn Muqaatil narrates the same verdict from the Hanafi jurists. (Ibid)
Burhanud-Din al-Marghinaani rahimahullah, the author of al-Hidaayah states that this is the correct and accepted version.
(al-Hidaayah: vol. 1 p 50)
It is stated in the Fataawaa Aalamgiriyyah:
"As for a female she must bend slightly in ruku' without spreading her fingers out. She must keep them together on her knees by merely placing the palms. She must bend her knees slightly and not spread her arms out.
A female should not spread out in ruku' and sajdah while she will sit on her legs. In sajdah she will make her stomach rest on her thighs .
A woman will sit on her left buttock and position her legs out to the right side. "
(al-Fataawaa al-Alamkiriyyah: vol. 1 p 75)
Imam Abu Ja'far at-Tahaawi rahimahullah:
"As for a woman, our scholars (Hanafi) state that she should sit in a manner that is most concealing. "
(Mukhtasar ikhtilaaf al-ulamaa': vol. 1 p212)
Sheikh Muhammad Zakariyya al-Kaandhlawi rahimahullah:
"It is unconditionally preferable according to us (Hanafi jurists) for a woman to sit on her buttocks with her legs positioned out to the right hand side. "
(Awjaz al-Masaalik: vol. 1 p 258)
Allaamah Abd ul-Hayy al-Lukhnawi rahimahullah:
"A woman differs from a man in many of the actions of salah…"(as-Si'aayah: vol.2 p 205)
He then goes on to list the differences as mentioned by the other jurists.
And Allah knows best.
Madrasah Arabiyyah Islamiyah (Aazadville)

wasalam
-SI-

Please remain on topic inshaallah

This thread is not talking about whether or not we should follow particular madhhabs...

Uptil now, and till Qiyamah they wont be able to bring a single proof from marfoo hadith that prophet instructed both men and women to pray similarly, especially the sajdah (for ther're so many clear proofs of the distinct position of men and women in sajdah).

Care to provide some hadith stating that women and men should pray differently?

In The Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful

format_quote Originally Posted by AmarFaisal

Assalamoalaikum ,
Both time it was an elderly person whom u can't even think abt replying back. I felt so bad. What to follow!
Then once I read somewhere, that when u pray u should concentrate on the dept of Prayers (Khuzoo and Khushoo?) and as long as ur doing one ruko, two sajdas, two salams etc, u shouldn't bother urself into what to do how, just concentrate on ur prayers. However, there are times when I read abt strict rules of doing ruko n sajdas in certain ways. For eg. doing sajda, our head should touch the floor before our nose, our fingers should be together and hands apart etc(I might not be exactly right in quoting that but U might have read such instructions before somewhere). So sometimes while praying I get distracted by first this, then this, then this, and forget the esessence of prayers.

Sister, Qiyam, Ruku, Sujood are among the Faraaid of Salah. the four Imams vary on issues of Sunnah, Mustahab, Makrooh etc and their opinions are not baseless. It is important you observe these properly along with Khushoo. I find that one way to increase my Khushoo is through proper observance of Sunnah and other ettiquetes of Salah. this way you stand before Allah with the thought that "I've stand before You, O Allah, following the best among Your creation". Can you think of a better way to stand before Allah?
May Allah make us among the best of the servants and grant us Khushoo in our Salah. Ameen.
wasalam
-SI-

format_quote Originally Posted by sonz

Question :

Would u please tell me the proper way for women to sit, when we pray, also can you please differenciate the sitting position, from men.

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah. The way in which women pray is the same as the way in which men pray in every part of the prayer, prostration, sitting, and so on. This is based on the following evidence:

1 – The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Pray as you have seen me praying.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari. This is addressed to both men and woman.
Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Everything that we have said above about the way in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) prayed applies equally to men and women. There is nothing narrated in the Sunnah which implies that women are exempted from any of that. Rather the general meaning of the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “Pray as you have seen me praying,” include women too.
Sifat Salaat al-Nabi , p. 189

2 – The general meaning of the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Women are the twin halves of men.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 204; al-Tirmidhi, 105, from the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah. Also narrated by al-Daarimi, 764, from the hadeeth of Anas.

Al-‘Ajlooni said: Ibn Qattaan said: The isnaad from ‘Aa’ishah is da’eef (weak), but the isnaad from Anas is saheeh (sound).
Kashf al-Khafa’ , 1/248

Al-Khattaabi said: What we understand from this is: If something is said in the masculine, it is addressed to women too, except in cases where there is evidence to indicate that it applies only to women.

Some of the scholars said that a woman should not sit as a man sits (in prayer), and they quoted two da’eef (weak) hadeeths as evidence for that.

Al-Bayhaqi said:

Two da’eef hadeeth were narrated concerning that, the like of which cannot be taken as evidence.
The first is the hadeeth of ‘Ata’ ibn al-‘Ajlaan from Abu Nadrah al-‘Abdi from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri, the companion of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), that he used to command the men to spread out their arms in their prostration and he used to tell the women to keep their arms close to their sides in their prostration. He used to tell the men to spread their left foot along the ground (and sit on it) and place the right foot upright during the tashahhud and he used to tell the women to sit, kneeling, on their heels.” Then al-Bayyhaqi said: This is a munkar hadeeth.

The other is the hadeeth of Abu Mutee’ al-Hakam ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-Balkhi from ‘Umar ibn Dharr from Mujaahid from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar who said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When a woman sits during the prayer she should place one thigh against the other and when she prostrates she should press her stomach against her thighs, compressing herself in the most concealing manner, for Allaah looks at her and says: ‘O My angels, I call you to bear witness that I have forgiven her.’” Sunan al-Bayhaqi al-Kubra, 2/222.

This hadeeth is da’eef, because it was narrated by Abu Mutee’ al-Balkhi.

Ibn Hajar said:
Ibn Mu’een said: He is nothing. On one occasion he said: He is da’eef. Al-Bukhaari said: He is da’eef. Al-Nasaa’i said: He is da’eef. Lisaan al-Mizaan, 2/334.

Ibn ‘Adiyy said: It is clear that Abu Mutee’ is da’eef in his ahaadeeth and everything that he narrated, and for most of his narrations there are no corroborating reports.

Al-Kaamil fi Du’afa’ al-Rijaal, 2/214

A third hadeeth was narrated from Yazeed ibn Abi Habeeb, saying that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) passed by two women who were praying. He said: “When you prostrate, press some of your flesh to the ground, for women are not like men in that.”

This was narrated by Abu Dawood in al-Maraaseel (p. 118) and by al-Bayhaqi (2/223).

This hadeeth is mursal, which is a category of da’eef (weak).

In al-Musannaf (1/242), Ibn Abi Shaybah narrated some reports from some of the salaf which suggest that there is a difference in the way women and men sit (in prayer), but the only evidence that counts is the words of Allaah and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Then he narrated from some of the salaf that the way in which men and women pray is the same.

Al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Umm al-Darda’ used to sit in prayer as a man sits and she was a scholarly woman.

Al-Haafiz stated in Fath al-Baari that Abu’l-Darda’ had two wives, both of whom were called Umm al-Darda’. The older one was a Sahaabiyyah and the younger one was a Taabi’iyyah. He suggested that the one who was referred to here by al-Bukhaari was the younger one.
See also the answer to question no. 38162.
And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)

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masalama

very well said masha,allah

When I was little...just learning how to pray and all that..I use to pray exactly the same way as my dad...infact the mosque I use to attend we use to pray girls and boys...ahem...boys at the front obviously! And the madrassah teacher pointed out that there are no no differences except that girls had to keep there legs together for certain parts of the prayer sequence.
Hope that helped!!!
Jazakallah

Akhee, please give me the classifications of those ahadith that you have just quoted. As you know, we do not attribute da'eef or mawdoo' ahadith to the Prophet (SAW), as that would be lying against him. Rather we should say, it was reported, instead of 'The Prophet said..'. when it comes to weak or fabricated hadith.