There are stories of previous Prophets in Quran. (Musa, Yusuf, Yunus and others )
What's the wisdom and lesson in these stories?
Thanks in advance for the answers!
That's not the same thing. Us, the world, the Quran etc. can be taken as evidence of a creator. Whether you accept that evidence is your own choice.
I understand. That is why it is called "faith". It doesn't require the evidence to be "scientific". It is just good enough to have faith that it is.
format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
Nobody is expected to follow blindly. People follow because there is enough proof which makes sense. Acceptance is an individual thing.
Yes and no. Some make educated decisions but most don't. We don't sell alcohol or cigarettes to kids under 18 but we indoctrinate them with religious teachings. We indoctrinate the countless uneducated with religious non-sense (pardon my bluntness but I mean to tell them not to use condoms when they're dying of AIDS, not to teach them contraception because religion forbids it etc.)
And I agree, "acceptance is an individual thing" but most religions forget this and don't agree with that. In how many places in Quran Allah calls to fight the infidels just because they don't accept Islamic teachings? So acceptance may be an individual thing but it certainly doesn't look like a divine thing.
Needless to say, I am all for freedom of speech and belief. People are allowed to believe in what they want, even in a stone, as long as they don't throw it at me, just because I don't share their views.
format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
I believe the OP was trying to say certain things in the Quran can be scientifically proven. Just because everything cannot be proven scientifically does not make it untrue.
Which, I keep saying that I totally agree with. I said it in earlier posts: science hasn't answered all the questions, yet. But if one wants to show Allah as the answer to the unexplained or unanswered without any scientific evidence, Odin or Zeus will have as much to say about it as any god. Because, as far as scientific evidence is concerned, they are on par.
There are stories of previous Prophets in Quran. (Musa, Yusuf, Yunus and others )
What's the wisdom and lesson in these stories?
Thanks in advance for the answers!
Surah 21. Al-Anbiyaa
In vv. 48-91, instances have been cited from the important events of the life stories of the Prophets to show that all the Prophets, who were sent by God, were human beings and had all the characteristics of a man except those which were exclusive to Prophethood. They had no share in Godhead and they had to implore Allah to fulfill each and every necessity of theirs.
Along with these two other things have also been mentioned:
1. All the Prophets had to pass through distress and affliction; their opponents did their worst to thwart their mission, but in spite of it they came out successful by the extraordinary succour from Allah.
2. All the Prophets had one and the same "way of life', the same as was being presented by Muhammad (Allah's peace be upon him), and that was the only Right Way of Life and all other ways invented and introduced by mischievous people were utterly wrong.
In vv. 92-106, it has been declared that only those who follow the Right Way, will come out successful in the final judgment of God and those who discard it shall meet with the worst consequences.
In vv. 107-112, the people have been told that it is a great favour of Allah that He has sent His Messenger to inform them beforehand of this Reality and that those, who consider his coming to be an affliction instead of a blessing, are foolish people.
This is wishful thinking, the basic human fear of death. "There has to be a reason! This cannot be just it! There has to be something afterwards!"
Of course, this is how one's thoughts must be. Thinking in all directions, finding answers and all.
All this time arguing, I think I've known you quiet well. You don't have confidence on yourself. You only trust science. Even when you feel something's right, you don't believe in yourself, you first check if science has proved it, then it's an OK for you.
You have put an end to your own thoughts and imagination. Look at yourself, science is all you believe. It's as though, science is your faith.
format_quote Originally Posted by DirtyLeo
People believe in what they want to believe, unfortunately. Because, in this case, it is comforting. It is comforting to think that our loved ones are not really dead, we are not going to die etc. etc.
It's not like that. People believe in after life because it makes sence. Just because science failed to prove it doesn't mean it's wrong.
Everything has a creator. The airplane was invented/created by the Wright Bros. And obviously almost everything around us is created by humans. (how can you deny that humans are not dominating the earth?)
How is your creator? You mom and dad? You see, they are not labeled as creators of you, they are labeled as your parents.
If you check out the defination of creator in any dictionary, it would read, "one who creates or God."
Everybody knows God exists.
format_quote Originally Posted by DirtyLeo
I know that I have one shot at a life. I'm so lucky to be the one I am as any other one of the millions of sperms would give birth to a different person. I enjoy life, I have a family, I pass my genes to the next generations and I'm going to die one day. My molecules will go back to this ecosystem and my genes (at least some part) will survive within my descendants. Sorry to break the bad news, we don't have a better reason to be here than the bird on the wire outside.
Our life is waaaay better than any animal.
The explanation of life you have given suits to life of animals, not us.
They have no purpose of life. We just don't live to pass on our generation, we have a purpose. Unfortunately, you fail to understand it. Think about it, what's the use of keeping the generation going? To keep the world goin on?
Where you an atheist from birth? Bet not.
Is your wife an atheist too? Obviously but just curious, were her parents also atheists?
Yes and no. Some make educated decisions but most don't. We don't sell alcohol or cigarettes to kids under 18 but we indoctrinate them with religious teachings. We indoctrinate the countless uneducated with religious non-sense (pardon my bluntness but I mean to tell them not to use condoms when they're dying of AIDS, not to teach them contraception because religion forbids it etc.)
Just because it's nonsense to you does not make it nonsense.
format_quote Originally Posted by DirtyLeo
And I agree, "acceptance is an individual thing" but most religions forget this and don't agree with that. In how many places in Quran Allah calls to fight the infidels just because they don't accept Islamic teachings? So acceptance may be an individual thing but it certainly doesn't look like a divine thing.
No it doesn't, religion is always a choice in Islam.
format_quote Originally Posted by DirtyLeo
Which, I keep saying that I totally agree with. I said it in earlier posts: science hasn't answered all the questions, yet. But if one wants to show Allah as the answer to the unexplained or unanswered without any scientific evidence, Odin or Zeus will have as much to say about it as any god. Because, as far as scientific evidence is concerned, they are on par.
Well actually no. Odin, Zeus etc. have many inconsistencies and things which can be proven without question to be false. The Quran does not.
Of course, this is how one's thoughts must be. Thinking in all directions, finding answers and all.
LOL! That's the best! "Thinking in all directions, finding answers and all"?!? and after that you still believe blindly in something that shows no scientific evidence at all? Because we cannot comprehend something, doesn't make it God's doing. Humankind has suffered from the same delusion since its dawn. But if everybody were content like you with religious answers to scientific questions, we wouldn't be communicating using computers via Internet using satellite signals etc. True curious minds that are not content with answers like "This is God's doing, don't bother finding out how and why it is like that" brought us where we are. This same thing is true with things like "origin of life" "universe's life cycle". To these questions, religion's answer is "God's doing". But true curious mind is not content with that. It is looking for scientific answers and it is getting them.
format_quote Originally Posted by peace_maker
All this time arguing, I think I've known you quiet well. You don't have confidence on yourself. You only trust science. Even when you feel something's right, you don't believe in yourself, you first check if science has proved it, then it's an OK for you.
Of course. I'm proud of my rational mind. I'm fed up with dogmatic religious teachings. I do my own thinking, I don't let others do that for me. I have confidence on my mind.
And it is a little bit too much to claim that you know me etc. Let's not get too personal, shall we! Name callings etc are not good for a civilized discussion. We don't have to agree on everything in order to treat each other respectfully. I don't claim to know you, I don't call you "religious bigot" etc. So let's keep it that way please.
It's strange that you are trying to bring the subject to my person, where we are not discussion that. We are discussion the subject "everything in Quran can be proven scientifically", to which I said "of course not!". This is what we are discussing.
format_quote Originally Posted by peace_maker
You have put an end to your own thoughts and imagination.
That is correct! Of course I don't live my life according to some imagined beings and their teachings. Imagination is great. I love fantasy and science-fiction books, for example. But I leave fantasy at that, I don't take it to the real life to tell me how to live my life and how the universe came to be.
format_quote Originally Posted by peace_maker
Look at yourself, science is all you believe. It's as though, science is your faith.
Science is not a religion or not a faith. Science doesn't care about these things. It works with claims, evidences and proofs. Faith on the other hand, doesn't need any rational justification. It is realized just by believing in something without needing scientific evidence. "Because it feels right" or "because it makes sense" is your evidence but some of us are not content with that because this is no way to progress things rationally.
format_quote Originally Posted by peace_maker
It's not like that. People believe in after life because it makes sence.
It makes sense to religious people, maybe, for they are the ones who don't need scientific evidence to believe in things.
format_quote Originally Posted by peace_maker
Just because science failed to prove it doesn't mean it's wrong.
I've said that many times before. You are right there! Probably the only scientifically correct statement in your post. That opens the door to a philosophical discussions. But this logic has no end because we can imagine billions of things that science hasn't proven: pegasus, hydra, elves, trolls, Minotaur, Anubis, Zeus, Ra, Odin, Thor, Holy Ghost (Christian), leprechauns, etc. Do you see how far this logic can go?
Furthermore, as it is said on this thread before, burden of proof falls on the claimant. Science doesn't have to prove any god's existence. It is up to the claimant to prove that Allah or Yahwe or Zeus exists.
format_quote Originally Posted by peace_maker
Everything has a creator.
The "creator" argument shots itself on the foot with that. Because I can always push this question to: "Who created God? Who's God creator?". Religious people would say, "God is not created. God has always been". How convenient!!! A free "get out of the jail card" for God. He doesn't have to answer the very question that you are asking. Another one of your "evidence" based logic.
format_quote Originally Posted by peace_maker
Everybody knows God exists.
Where do you get this fact from?
format_quote Originally Posted by peace_maker
Think about it, what's the use of keeping the generation going? To keep the world goin on?
Our genes have to survive. This is the ultimate reason of being and staying alive. Even though we aren't doing it purposefully, it is the same for all living beings.
We don't keep the world going. Humankind is very young compared to the world. It is just enough to compare how long we have been around and how long dinosaurs roamed Earth. We are just a drop of water in the ocean. But our ego and arrogance have no end. We imagine gods and claim that they created this world for us even though we've been around for a fraction of a second.
format_quote Originally Posted by peace_maker
Where you an atheist from birth? Bet not.
Is your wife an atheist too? Obviously but just curious, were her parents also atheists?
We eventually grow out of Santa Claus and some of us can even grow out of God, it seems.
Unfortunately not a lot of us are born into families who don't agree with religious dogma. Children should be given the option to choose. Maybe they'll become Buddhists or Christians or Atheists or Deists but most of us force our religious beliefs on our children. If you are born in a muslim family you become muslim and believe that Islam is the last religion, and if you are born into a Mormon family the your beliefs are totally different. There are so many religions, so many gods around, it would be a tough choice for an individual to study them all and pick the one that "makes sense".
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.. I'll eventually get to answer the other posters too but it takes time to write these long posts . In the meantime, have a nice day all.
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