My knowledge is limited, but maybe someone else can help you. I'll comment to bump this post.
A while ago I asked for help in this thread: /advice-support/134304515-help-me-believe.html
Since then my depression and angst has remained. So I'd like to continue where I left it. Where in the Al-Quran are the proofs of Allah's existence?
I have read several interpretations of Al-Iqra or Al-Alaq, but I can't see any proof in it. What should I read next?
My knowledge is limited, but maybe someone else can help you. I'll comment to bump this post.
Salaam, here are some ayaat that Allah talks about his signs.
- Surah Al Room from ayah 17 to around 30 (30:17-30) Allah is listing out several signs.
- Surah Al-Naml from ayah 59 to 65 (27:59-65)
- Surah Hajj ayah 73 (22:73)
- Surah Al-Anbiyaa ayah 30 (21:30) this ayah talks about the creation of the universe. It is really amazing because this ayah is supported by the Big Bang theory as well. And there's no way any person knew about the big bang 1400 years ago.
This is just what I thought of in a few minutes but they are all literally all over the Quran, just read it.
إِنَّ فِي خَلْقِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَاخْتِلَافِ اللَّيْلِ وَالنَّهَارِ وَالْفُلْكِ الَّتِي تَجْرِي فِي الْبَحْرِ بِمَا يَنفَعُ النَّاسَ وَمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مِن مَّاءٍ فَأَحْيَا بِهِ الْأَرْضَ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهَا وَبَثَّ فِيهَا مِن كُلِّ دَابَّةٍ وَتَصْرِيفِ الرِّيَاحِ وَالسَّحَابِ الْمُسَخَّرِ بَيْنَ السَّمَاءِ وَالْأَرْضِ لَآيَاتٍ لِّقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ
Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which Allah Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise.
Surah # 2 - Al Baqarah - Verse 164
you need to go a step back & decide whether or not God exists before the nuances of how to go about defining your beliefs.
That's how it is done and that's how others have done it before you. Abraham (PBUH) didn't have a book:
6:76 to top
Sahih International
So when the night covered him [with darkness], he saw a star. He said, "This is my lord." But when it set, he said, "I like not those that disappear."
6:77 to top
Sahih International
And when he saw the moon rising, he said, "This is my lord." But when it set, he said, "Unless my Lord guides me, I will surely be among the people gone astray."
6:78 to top
Sahih International
And when he saw the sun rising, he said, "This is my lord; this is greater." But when it set, he said, "O my people, indeed I am free from what you associate with Allah .
6:79 to top
Sahih International
Indeed, I have turned my face toward He who created the heavens and the earth, inclining toward truth, and I am not of those who associate others with Allah ."
so when you quote me you must do it in context, yes books are important but how would a book work for someone who can't read for instance? You have to step back from that and reason about the origin of the world, whether or not you believe it came on its own and self assembled into different species, different elements, different seasons, different foods etc etc.etc. or whether there is a creator.. once you're absolutely sure about that portion can you go the next level..
best,
Thank you for your replies! I will not waste your time writing sloppy answers based on what I already think. Instead, I will take my time and study the surahs suggested and contemplate on it, before I reply properly. I hope you have the patience to wait for feedback. Meanwhile, you are all welcome to provide more proofs and ways of changing perspective.
All the best to you!
the context behind Iqra is delved into in detail here:
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Room
Claiming Allah created mankind from dust is in no way proof that he actually did so.
The existence of heaven and earth does not prove anything, and neither does differences of languages and colors.format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Room
I can't see how this proves anything.format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Room
How is weather proof of anything?format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Room
Again, this is a claim, not proof. And so it goes on, but in Al-Room (30:17-30) I find no proof or evidence. If I missed it, please point it out to me.format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Room
I'm sorry, can you please point out what you claim to be proof?format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Naml (30:59-65)
I see nothing here that resembles proof. Please point it out for me.format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Hajj (22:22-61)
It rains and grass grows, and therefore Allah exists. What kind of deduction is that?format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Hajj (22:62)
If everything on earth is subservient to man, I don't see how that is proof of Allah's existence. A moving ship also doesn't prove anything. And how would the heaven fall onto the earth do you propose? And if it's possible, what is there to say that there is an Allah to prevent it?format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Hajj (22:63-64)
Again, I see many warnings and claims, but no proof.format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Hajj (22:65-73)
Indeed, as you say the beginning of this surah is supported by the big bang theory. I wouldn't go so far as to call it proof, but it surely is evidence. Sadly, if no more evidence is provided, this evidence is outweighed by contradictions. For example, in Al-Room (30:19), it is claimed that Allah made man from dust. But here it is claimed that every living thing is made out of water. Which one is it?format_quote Originally Posted by Surah Al-Anbiya (21:30)
Besides, even in the absense of contradictions, it's not very convincing. If the Quran was full of these claims, amazingly converging with modern science bit by bit, then I would surely be impressed. However, if these surahs are exceptions rather than rules, then I'm sorry to say that it's little more than Nostradamus, isn't it?
I don't get it. How is this proof? You can ask any atheist, and I'm sure they'll agree that there are clouds and rain and so on, but how does this prove anything? Don't get me wrong, it's very poetic and I'm sure it's even more beautiful in Arabic, but that's not what I was asking for.
I'm sorry if I made you look bad somehow. My intention was simply to bridge one approach to another, inspired by you. I am a man of reason but I have failed to assert the existence of Allah by means of logic and empirical evidence. Thus I turn to the weakest link in myself, my knowledge of the Quran. You brought to my attention that Allah promised proof, and thus, if he exists, the proof must be there to be found. If you force me to make a decision now I would say that based on my knowledge of the world, Allah is unlikely to exist. Certainty is the mother of all fools, or so I've heard.
I'd like to remind you all that even though my tone can be somewhat agressive and straight-forward at times, I sincerly want to believe. I assure you my intentions are good.
Abz2000:
Does the video have any proof or evidence?
/hoping for more help/
ha?
Hence I stated to quote me in context not snippets!My intention was simply to bridge one approach to another, inspired by you.Alright, then proclaim yourself an atheist and don't waste your time or ours!
I am a man of reason but I have failed to assert the existence of Allah by means of logic and empirical evidence.
What is that knowledge you profess to have?Thus I turn to the weakest link in myself, my knowledge of the Quran.
One can't prove anything, neither 'science' nor 'logic' work in 'absolutes' in science you can reject the null hypothesis or fail to reject it but you can't accept it!You brought to my attention that Allah promised proof, and thus, if he exists, the proof must be there to be found.
Do you actually know 'science'? or is the opposite of religion science in your book though you may have little to no knowledge of how it actually works?
I don't think anyone is forcing you to do anything!If you force me to make a decision now I would say that based on my knowledge of the world, Allah is unlikely to exist. Certainty is the mother of all fools, or so I've heard.
I am tone deaf when we're writing!I'd like to remind you all that even though my tone can be somewhat agressive and straight-forward at times, I sincerly want to believe. I assure you my intentions are good.
best,
For most people this is enough proof. Just seeing how the universe works is enough for me to believe there is a creator. I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for. Even things which can be proven empirically are not accepted by everyone. Are you waiting for God to reveal himself to you and explain the meaning of everything? I think you're out of luck if that's the case. Also, reading your comments I'm sure you'd put it down to some bad trip if it did happen.
If you're genuine, and not here to troll, then just ask for God's help. Only He can guide you.
Greetings Av,
There is no possibility that an illiterate man who lived in the middle of a desert 1433 years ago could have written a book such as the Qur'an. It is not even possible it could have come from any human on this Earth. We are giving you translations of the verses of the Qur'an but to really appreciate its magnifcence one needs to read it in its original language.
Unlike the Bible and Old Testament that have been subject to innumerable translations, doubtful and spurious transmissions, and corruptions at the hands of clerics up till now (with the “gender sensitive” versions coming out these days), the Qur'an was transmitted to us in an unprecedented and unique manner according to rigorous rules of transmission. The Qur'an was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) via the angel Gabriel, and the Prophet subsequently memorized the whole scripture.
Thousands of the Companions of the Prophet learned the Qur'an directly from the Prophet (pbuh). They memorized it and were known in Islamic history as huffaadh (the memorizers and preservers of the Qur'an). Moreover, a number of Companions wrote it down during the lifetime of the Prophet (peace be upon him), and it was compiled in its entirety immediately after his death.
The following generation of Muslims learned the Qur’an directly from the Companions. Thus the chain of teaching and learning through direct contact continued systematically, methodically, and meticulously until the present age.
Additionally, several of the Companions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) were appointed as scribes to record the words of the revelation directly from the Prophet himself on parchment, leather, or whatever else was available. The most famous of these scribes was Zayd ibn Thabit, who also memorized the entire Qur’an, and he formed with the others a community of huffaadh that can be compared to academic societies of our present time.
We know the Qur’an was recorded in totality during the lifetime of the Prophet (pbuh) and the different surahs (chapters) personally arranged by him. Many copies of the text were used for study and teaching, even in Mecca before the Hijrah, the migration to Medina.
The entire Qur’an was written down during the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad, and trusting the fact that many scholars knew it by heart, it was not collected in one volume. It was personally arranged by him, and the Muslims memorized it in the same order. The companion Uthman reported that whenever a new verse was revealed, the Prophet would immediately call a scribe to record it. He would instruct the person to put the specific verse or verses in a particular chapter.
Furthermore, every year during the month of Ramadan, the Prophet would recite the whole Qur’an from beginning to end in its present-day arrangement, and everyday people could hear it from his own lips in the mosque. Its sequence is no mystery. Many of the Companions not only memorized it completely, they also wrote it down and even added commentary (tafseer) on their own personal copies. When the Prophet passed away, the whole Qur’an was already written down, but it was not yet compiled in book form.
During the rule of the first Caliph Abu Bakr, there was a rebellion among some distant Arab tribes that resulted in a series of fierce battles. In one particular battle, a number Companions who had memorized the Qur’an were killed. The Companion Omar worried that the knowledge of the Qur’an was in danger, thus he convinced Abu Bakr that the Qur’an should be compiled into book form as a means of preserving it once and for all.
Zayd bin Thabit was entrusted with this important task. Zayd followed strict methods in his compilation and had dozens of other huffaadh recheck his work to ensure its accuracy. Abu Bakr, who had also committed the entire Qur’an to memory, approved of the final product. After Abu Bakr passed away, the copy was passed to the Caliph ‘Omar, and then Uthman.
However as the Muslim world expanded into lands where the people spoke Arabic as a second language, the new Muslims had a difficult time learning the correct pronunciation of the text. The Caliph Uthman consulted other Companions, and they agreed that official copies of the Qur’an should be inscribed using only the pronunciation of the Quraysh tribe, the Arabic dialect that the Prophet spoke.
Zayd bin Thabit was again given this assignment, and three other huffaadh were assigned to help him in the task. Together, the four scribes borrowed the original, complete copy of the Qur’an, duplicated it manually many times over, and then distributed them to all of the major Muslim cities within the empire. Two of these copies still exist today: one is in Istanbul and the other in Tashkent.
One must keep in mind that in traditional learning in the Arab world, transmission was based upon an oral tradition as well as a written one; the Arabs (and later all Muslims) excelled in accurately reporting scripture, poetry, aphorisms, etc. through the generations without change. Similarly, the chain of huffaadh was never broken, and thus the Qur'an today has reached us in two forms: the memorized version transmitted through the scholarly chain, and the written version based upon the Companions’ initial recording.
If the Qur’an had been changed, there would be huge discrepancies between these two today, as the Qur’an has reached isolated (and sometimes illiterate) communities through the memorized form of transmission without the written form to correct it. No such discrepancies have ever been recorded or reported. In other words, isolated village A in African Mali and isolated village B in Afghanistan will both produce contemporary huffaadh reciting the same words of the Qur’an, though they did not learn from a similar printing of the scripture nor has there ever been a concerted international effort to rectify would-be discrepancies.
Allah has said in the Qur’an that He alone will protect His book, and indeed He has kept His promise. The Qur’an that we read today contains the same exact words that were revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) over 1430 years ago. This is quite a miracle, especially when you consider that NO other group of people can say that their book has not been subject to change by the time it reached the present generation.
Only the Qur’an has survived through the centuries unchanged, and the language in which it was revealed, classical Arabic, still enjoys practical usage around the world. While classic English of the 14th century can be understood by only a very few native English speakers, the Qur’an can be understood by the vast majority of Arabic-speaking Muslims. When compared to other scriptures, the Qur’an is unique in these two respects.
Furthermore, from the prolific arts that have accompanied Qur’anic learning and transmission, we can learn of the auspiciousness and honor with which the Muslims have traditionally held the Qur’an. The visual arts of calligraphy and binding, and the vocal art of recitation represent examples of such arts, and from them we can see that veracity of transmission would be understood as a fundamental aspect of Qur’anic reverence.
As regards the proofs within the Qur'an itself, they can be found in the following Qur’anic challenges:
Surah 17, verse 88:
*{Say: If men and jinn should combine together to bring the like of this Quran, they could not bring the like of it, though some of them were aiders of others.}*
And Surah 2, verse 23:
*{And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful.}*
Unanimity of Muslim Scholars
The unanimity of Muslim scholars throughout the ages has also proved that the Quran we have is the same which the Prophet had. The same holds true for some unbiased Orientalist scholars who studied the Quran and found the style and the wording exactly the same as that which was common during the time of the Prophet himself.
Another point that needs reflection is that the Quran contains many scientific miracles that were proven to be correct only recently; it therefore stands to reason that had there been any change in the Quran, such verses or many of them, would have disappeared and even changed, and thus proven wrong.
Oral Transmission
Moreover, the Quran has been handed down through generations and centuries by means of oral transmission alongside the written text and that one of the unique merits of Muslims is their ability of maintaining an unbroken chain proving the authenticity of their texts throughout all these centuries.
Many people memorize the Quran in various parts of the world. All of them meet in one place at one time and recite the same Quran. This leaves no doubt that the Quran we have today is the exact one that was recited 1430 ago when the Prophet was alive.
Language of the Quran
Another logical proof is the decline in the level of the Arabic language and the spoken dialects which we find everywhere in the Arab world.
The deterioration in the level of the spoken Arabic, although affecting the tongues of people, did not in fact come close to the Quranic text. It is because of this that we find the Quranic text being unique in the way it is recited and the way it is written.
It is different in the written form as well as the oral form from the other written or oral texts.
Why? Because it was protected against the factors of time and space.
And for this job to be completed, Allah has enabled many scholars who specialized in the Quranic text whether in the written or the oral form and made their vocation in life to transmit it as exactly as it existed in the Prophet's life.
Quranic Manuscripts
Another physical proof showing the authenticity of the Quran is the large number of Quranic manuscripts dating back to the early times of Islam. One of the manuscripts existing today is the personal copy of the mus-haf (physical copy of the Quran) that belonged to Caliph Uthman Ibn Affan.
This copy still carries the traces of the blood of Uthman who was killed when he was reciting the Quran not long ago after the death of the Prophet. The manuscript has been examined not only by Muslims but also by non-Muslims, and it exists till today as standing evidence of the authenticity of the Quran.
By bringing this manuscript and comparing it with all other manuscripts that have been written through different generations in different parts of the Muslim world, we can see how exactly the same they are.
We can also notice the difference between the text written there and the normal way of writing Arabic words and the question will rise: why did not the normal way of writing affect the way of writing the Quranic text? The simple answer to this is that the uniqueness of the Quran made it very special and as a way of keeping this specialty is keeping it in the same formula it was firstly written.
Challenging the Quran
A long time ago, the Quran challenged people to produce something similar to one verse or ten verses or one surah of it. The challenge was not met and people are still unable to meet the challenge which means the text is still the same miraculous one that was recited during the Prophet's lifetime.
Of course, some biased non-Muslim Orientalists have tried their best to raise misconceptions regarding the authenticity of the Quranic text we have today.
These attempts have been very old indeed and all of them have failed to prove anything.
Consider the following verses:
Allah the almighty says in the Qur'an which was revealed over 1433 years ago:
"It is He Who has created you from dust then from a sperm-drop, then from a leech-like clot; then does he get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old,- though of you there are some who die before;- and lets you reach a Term appointed; in order that ye may learn wisdom."
This verse along with many others are just some of the reason's why many scientists in particular have converted to Islam along with many other people over the centurys especially now because more people are converting to Islam in Europe and America especially than any other religion in the world!
In the Qur'an, which was revealed 14 centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described like this:
"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
(The Qur'an, 51:47)
The word "heaven", as stated in this verse, is used in various places in the Qur'an with the meaning of space and universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning. In other words, in the Qur'an it is revealed that the universe "expands". And this is the very conclusion that science has reached today.
The Birth of a Human Being
Many diverse subjects are mentioned in the Qur'an in the course of inviting people to believe. Sometimes the heavens, sometimes animals, and sometimes plants are shown as evidence to man by God. In many of the verses, people are called upon to turn their attention to their own creation. They are often reminded how man came into the world, which stages he has passed through, and what his essence is:
"It is We Who have created you. Why, then, do you not accept the truth? Have you ever considered that (seed) which you emit? Is it you who create it? Or are We the Creator?"
(The Qur'an, 56:57-59)
"Does man reckon he will be left uncontrolled (without purpose)? Was he not once a drop of ejected semen?"
(The Qur'an, 75:36-37)
As we have seen, the Qur'an informs us that man is made not from the entire semen, but only a small part of it. That the particular emphasis in this statement announces a fact only discovered by modern science is evidence that the statement is divine in origin.
"We created man from a mingled drop to test him, and We made him hearing and seeing."
(The Qur'an, 76:2)
"He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected."
(The Qur'an, 53:45-46)
The wrapping of muscles over the bones
"(We) then formed the drop into a clot and formed the clot into a lump and formed the lump into bones and clothed the bones in flesh; and then brought him into being as another creature. Blessed be God, the Best of Creators!"
(The Qur'an, 23:14)
The bones of the baby completing its development in the mother's womb are clothed with flesh during one particular stage.
Embryology is the branch of science that studies the development of the embryo in the mother's womb. Until very recently, embryologists assumed that the bones and muscles in an embryo developed at the same time. For this reason, for a long time, some people claimed that these verses conflicted with science. Yet, advanced microscopic research conducted by virtue of new technological developments has revealed that the revelation of the Qur'an is word for word correct.
These observations at the microscopic level showed that the development inside the mother's womb takes place in just the way it is described in the verses. First, the cartilage tissue of the embryo ossifies. Then muscular cells that are selected from amongst the tissue around the bones come together and wrap around the bones.
Three Stages of the Baby in the Womb
In the Qur'an, it is related that man is created in a three-stage process in the mother's womb.
"... He creates you stage by stage in your mothers' wombs in a threefold darkness. That is God, your Lord. Sovereignty is His. There is no god but Him. So what has made you deviate?"
(The Qur'an, 39:6)
As will be understood, it is pointed out in this verse that a human being is created in the mother's womb in three distinct stages. Indeed, modern biology has revealed that the baby's embryological development takes place in three distinct regions in the mother's womb.
God said in the Quran about one of the evil unbelievers who forbade the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, from praying at the Kaaba (Holy Mosque):
Let him beware! If he does not stop, We will take him by the Naseyah (front of the head), a lying, sinful Naseyah (from of the head)! [Holy Quran 96:15-16]
Why did the Quran describe the front of the head as being lying and sinful? Why didn't the Quran say that the person was lying and sinful? What is the relationship between the front of the head and lying and sinfulness?
If we look into the skull at the front of the head, we will find the prefrontal area of the cerebrum, in the area we call the forehead. What does physiology tell us about the function of this area? A book entitled Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology says about this area, "The motivation and the foresight to plan and initiate movements occur in the anterior portion of frontal lobes, the prefrontal area. This is a region of association cortex.." Also the book says, "In relation to its involvement in motivation, the prefrontal area is also thought to be the functional center for aggression..."
So, this area of the cerebrum is responsible for planning, motivating, and initiating good and sinful behavior, and is responsible for the telling of lies and the speaking of truth. So, it is proper for the telling of lies and the speaking of truth. So, it is proper to describe the front of the head as lying and sinful when someone lies or commits a sin, as the Quran says:
...A lying, sinful Naseyah (from of the head)!
Scientists have only discovered these functions of the prefrontal area in the last sixty years, according to Professor Keith L. Moore. [Scientific Miracles in the Front of the Head p. 41]
The Expansion of the Universe
In the Qur'an, which was revealed 14 centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described like this:
"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
(The Qur'an, 51:47)
The word "heaven", as stated in this verse, is used in various places in the Qur'an with the meaning of space and universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning. In other words, in the Qur'an it is revealed that the universe "expands". And this is the very conclusion that science has reached today.
Orbits
While referring to the Sun and the Moon in the Qur'an, it is emphasized that each moves in a definite orbit.
"It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in an orbit. "
(The Qur'an, 21:33)
It is mentioned in another verse, too, that the Sun is not static but moves in a definite orbit:
"And the sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. "
(The Qur'an, 37:38)
the entire universe is full of paths and orbits such as this one, is written in the Qur'an as follows:
"By the sky full of paths and orbits."
(The Qur'an, 51:7)
The Protected Roof
The atmosphere only lets rays required for life reach the Earth. Ultraviolet rays, for example, make it to the world only partially. This is the most appropriate range to allow plants to make photosynthesis and eventually for all living things to survive.
In the Qur'an, God calls our attention to a very interesting attribute of the sky:
"We made the sky a preserved and protected roof yet still they turn away from Our Signs.."
(The Qur'an, 21:32)
This attribute of the sky has been proved by scientific research carried out in the 20th century.
The atmosphere surrounding the earth serves crucial functions for the continuity of life. While destroying many meteors big and small as they approach the earth, it prevents them from falling to earth and harming living things.
The Returning Sky
The verse 11 of Sura Tarik in the Qur'an, refers to the "returning" function of the sky.
"By Heaven with its cyclical systems."
(The Qur'an, 86:11)
This word interpreted as "cyclical" in Qur'an translations also has meanings of "sending back" or "returning".
As known, the atmosphere surrounding the Earth consists of many layers. Each layer serves an important purpose for the benefit of life. Research has revealed that these layers have the function of turning the materials or rays they are exposed to back into space or back down to the Earth. Now let us examine with a few examples of this "recycling" function of the layers encircling the Earth.
The Layers of the Atmosphere
One fact about the universe revealed in the verses of the Qur'an is that the sky is made up of seven layers.
"It is He Who created everything on the earth for you and then directed His attention up to heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens. He has knowledge of all things."
(The Qur'an, 2:29)
"Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke. In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate."
(The Qur'an, 41:12)
The word "heavens", which appears in many verses in the Qur'an, is used to refer to the sky above the Earth, as well as the entire universe. Given this meaning of the word, it is seen that the Earth's sky, or the atmosphere, is made up of seven layers.
14 centuries ago, when the sky was believed to be one unified body, the Qur'an miraculously stated that it consisted of layers, and what is more, "seven" layers. Modern science, on the other hand, discovered the fact that the atmosphere surrounding the Earth is made up of "seven" basic layers only very recently.
The Earth has all the attributes that are needed for life. One of them is the atmosphere, which serves as a shield protecting living things. Today, it is an established fact that the atmosphere is made up of different layers lying on top of one another. Just as it is described in the Qur'an, the atmosphere is made up of exactly seven layers. This is certainly one of the miracles of the Qur'an.The Function of Mountains
"We placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them…"
(The Qur'an, 21:31)
In a verse, this role of the mountains is pointed out by a comparison with "pegs":
"Have We not made the earth as a bed and the mountains its pegs?"
(The Qur'an, 78:6-7)
Mountains, in other words, clench the plates in the Earth's crust together by extending above and beneath the Earth's surface at the conjunction points of these plates. In this way, they fix the Earth's crust, and prevent it from drifting over the magma stratum or among its plates. Briefly, we may liken mountains to nails that keep pieces of wood together.
"You will see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds."
(The Qur'an, 27:88)
The Movement of Mountains
This motion of the mountains is caused by the movement of the Earth's crust that they are located on. The Earth's crust 'floats' over the mantle layer, which is denser. It was at the beginning of the 20th century when, for the first time in history, a German scientist by the name of Alfred Wegener proposed that the continents of the earth had been attached together when it first formed, but then drifted in different directions, and thus separated as they moved away from each other.
"It is God Who sends the winds which stir up clouds which He spreads about the sky however He wills. He forms them into dark clumps and you see the rain come pouring out from the middle of them. When He makes it fall on those of His slaves He wills, they rejoice"
(The Qur'an, 30:48)
This is how the Quran described mountains. God said in the Quran:
Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs? [Holy Quran 78:6-7]
Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground and that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground. So the suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word 'peg', since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground. The history of science tells us that the theory of mountains having deep roots was introduced only in the latter half of the nineteenth century. [Geological Concept of Mountains p.5]
Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth. [Geological Concept of Mountains pp. 44-45]. They hinder the shaking of the earth. God said in the Quran:
And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you ...[Holy Quran 16:15]
Likewise the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilizers for the earth. This knowledge about the role of mountains as stabilizers for the earth has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960's
[Geological Concept of Mountains p. 5].
Could anyone during the time of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, have known of the true shape of mountains? Could any one imagine that the solid massive mountain which he sees before him, actually extends deep into the earth and has a root, as scientists assert? A large number of books of geology when discussing mountains, only describe that part which is above the surface of the earth. This is because these books were not written by specialists in geology. However, modern geology has confirmed the truth of the Quran's verses.
FIRST STAGE: " It is God Who sends the winds..."
Countless air bubbles formed by the foaming of the oceans continuously burst and cause water particles to be ejected towards the sky. These particles, which are rich in salt, are then carried away by winds and rise upward in the atmosphere. These particles, which are called aerosols, function as water traps, and form cloud drops by collecting around the water vapour themselves, which rises from the seas as tiny droplets.
SECOND STAGE: ".... which stir up clouds which He spreads about the sky however He wills. He forms them into dark clumps..."
THIRD STAGE: "…and you see the rain come pouring our from the middle of them"
The water particles that surround salt crystals and dust particles thicken and form raindrops, so, drops that become heavier than the air leave the clouds and start to fall to the ground as rain.
The clouds are formed from water vapour that condenses around the salt crystals or dust particles in the air. Because the water droplets in these clouds are very small (with a diameter between 0.01 and 0.02 mm), the clouds are suspended in the air, and spread across the sky. Thus, the sky is covered in clouds.
In another verse, the following information is given about the formation of rain:
"Have you not seen how God drives along the clouds, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain come out of it? And He sends down from the sky mountain masses (of clouds) with cold hail in them, striking with it anyone He wills and averting it from anyone He wills. The brightness of His lightning almost blinds the sight."
(The Qur'an, 24:43)
Scientists studying cloud types came across surprising results regarding the formation of rain clouds. Rain clouds are formed and shaped according to definite systems and stages. The formation stages of cumulonimbus, one kind of rain cloud, are these:
1.STAGE, Being driven along: Clouds are carried along, that is, they are driven along, by the wind.
2.STAGE, Joining: Then, small clouds (cumulus clouds) driven along by the wind join together, forming a larger cloud
3.STAGE, Stacking: When the small clouds join together, updrafts within the larger cloud increase. The updrafts near the centre of the cloud are stronger than those near the edges. These updrafts cause the cloud body to grow vertically, so the cloud is stacked up. This vertical growth causes the cloud body to stretch into cooler regions of the atmosphere, where drops of water and hail formulate and begin to grow larger and larger. When these drops of water and hail become too heavy for the updrafts to support them, they begin to fall from the cloud as rain, hail, etc.(10)
We must remember that meteorologists have only recently come to know these details of cloud formation, structure and function, by using advanced equipment like planes, satellites, computers etc. It is evident that God has given us a piece of information that could not have been known 1,400years ago.
The Seas not Mingling with One Another
One of the properties of seas that has only recently been discovered is related in a verse of the Qur'an as follows:
"He has let loose the two seas, converging together, with a barrier between them they do not break through."
(The Qur'an, 55:19-20)
This property of the seas, that they come together yet do not mingle with one another at all, has only very recently been discovered by oceanographers. Because of the physical force called "surface tension", the waters of neighboring seas do not mix. Caused by the difference in the density of their waters, surface tension prevents them from mingling with one another, just as if a thin wall were between them.
The Qur'an contains science that was only discovered recently take a look for yourself in this website:
http://scienceislam.com/quran_miracles.php
http://www.missionislam.com/quran/challenge.htm
http://www.missionislam.com/science/book.htm
http://www.evidencesofcreation.com/miracles_01_01.htm
you already saw the proof - it's obvious to any who choose to see the facts over at least the past three decades over denial,
ask yourself the question: why do the heathen rage?
.......peace,
Last edited by Abz2000; 11-28-2011 at 05:27 AM.
Then I'm not sure you quite understand what my problem is. I don't want to be an atheist.
I was trying to say that I have very little knowledge of the Quran and that improving myself in that area might help me to believe, given that the Quran is miraculous.
I believe I do know scientific methods fairly well actually, and I don't merely see it as the opposite of religion. What you're referring to here is a statistical method called hypothesis testing where you specify a null hypothesis and an alternative hypothesis, for example:
H0: Men are taller than women
H1: Men are not taller than women
You could perhaps apply this method to religious ontology, but I'm not sure how. You could as you propose place the burden of proof on disbelievers by testing
N0: God exists
N1: God does not exist
But you might as well place the burden of proof on believers by testing
N0: God does not exist
N1: God exists
In either case, the tricky part is to come up with a test function, some way of quantifying the undependable variables, to finally end up with a p-value, that is a probability of God existing. I don't see how you want to do that? In fact, I can't say it seems appropriate, if at all possible, to use hypothesis testing for this question. But reducing science to hypothesis testing is just wrong.
I can see that now
What heathen? Something beginning in the early 80's? Denial of what? I really can't see your point.
It isn't our job to makeup your mind for you, you've a head on your shoulders to reason and you should use it!
People find different aspects about the Quran miraculous, it is supposed to be a solitary journey not a communal effort. People can point out what is obvious to them and it may not be obvious to you. You need to ask GOD for guidance not people and reflect upon the universe before you decide to refine your search. There's no point of which religion when you're not even sure if God exists!I was trying to say that I have very little knowledge of the Quran and that improving myself in that area might help me to believe, given that the Quran is miraculous.
The burden of proof lies on the disbeliever for they're starting with a double negative. They've not accepted the default conclusion to the universe in which they find themselves nor offered a scientifically sound alternative!I believe I do know scientific methods fairly well actually, and I don't merely see it as the opposite of religion. What you're referring to here is a statistical method called hypothesis testing where you specify a null hypothesis and an alternative hypothesis, for example:
H0: Men are taller than women
H1: Men are not taller than women
You could perhaps apply this method to religious ontology, but I'm not sure how. You could as you propose place the burden of proof on disbelievers by testing
N0: God exists
N1: God does not exist
But you might as well place the burden of proof on believers by testing
N0: God does not exist
N1: God exists
Indeed, and hence my previous statement you're looking for 'proof' per the thread title which you've started and I have demonstrated and you seem to equally understand that 100% proof of anything is not possible even in science and those branches of it that are more esoteric like Psychiatry. We create an imaginary line or standard by which things are measured or compared and you can use that methodology in your search of God if you so desire but as I had stated earlier, it is a solo journey!In either case, the tricky part is to come up with a test function, some way of quantifying the undependable variables, to finally end up with a p-value, that is a probability of God existing. I don't see how you want to do that? In fact, I can't say it seems appropriate, if at all possible, to use hypothesis testing for this question. But reducing science to hypothesis testing is just wrong.
swell!I can see that now
best,
The proof of the existence of Allah taa'laa is in the Quran. It's not ambiguous, it is rather explicit. Now if you still fail to see the existence of Allah swt, then there is something wrong with you. Not the Quran, or this beautiful religion.
God will not pop out from the clouds and show Himself to you, you need to think with the brain He has blessed with you, in order to reflect on what He has created and believe that nobody who has existed or shall exist can match His creation. Hence why most of the Ayahs which are brought as proof talk about creation. But you, obviously, fail to see that. The only hope you have left is to ask Allah swt for guidance. Sincerely.
This is what it boils down to, I suppose. If you are right, Mr Hamza, the Quran truly is magnificent. In any case I think Arab and Muslim culture and history is worthy of more respect than it is commonly admitted. As for the many verses put forward by you as proof, I feel like I would need a lifetime to investigate the accuracy and reliability of the claims. Let's hope I was sent here by Allah with the purpose of spreading Islam and that all my sufferings therefore have purpose. I'm afraid it's going to take a long time before I can respond to your post with any credibility but I want you to know that I truly appreciate your effort and that you have made a difference!
Bismillah
I encourage you to first have an open mind, and inshallah May allah guide you to the right path.
1st argument: Beginning of the Universe.
- Cosmetologists agree that the universe began as something.
- If the universe was eternal, there would be low energy
- Everything that begins to exist has to have a cause, since their is a cause, it has to have attributions.
- Powerful
- Uncaused
- Intelligent
- Will
- immaterial
2nd Argument: Reasoning abilities
- Whatever begins to exist has a cause (they don't just appear)
- The universe began to exist (Big Bang theory)
- Therefore the universe has a Cause
3rd Argument: Consciousness
- If we take god out, we cant trust our minds
- Natural selection is only there for survivability, not for seeking the truth
- The explanation for being able to trust yourself is Allah
- It cant be explained naturalistically
- Which goes in line with what the Quran tells us.
Neuroplasticity: The power of your intentions (thinking , thoughts)
- There is no difference between a lump of sand and Einstein's brain, There both made up of carbon.
- Leading Neuro-Science has it that something called conscious is manipulating your brain.
- We have a consciousness that isn't directly connected to the brain.
- Another thing that supports is:
Healing words = Positive Correlations.
- Studies show that through the power of thinking people are able to rewire their brains
- The best explanation for that is Allah gave that to us.
4th Argument: Design
So the question now is, WHO is the designer?
- If there was an iphone in the middle of the dessert, Would you believe it Chance or Design?
- The chance of that is near impossible so the only reasonable explanation would be that someone left it there, it was designed by someone else to be placed there. (whether they did it intentionally or not)
Once you believe, there shouldn't be any doubt.
I hope that was helpful, excuse any mistakes i made inshallah, for they were not intentional.
Asalamu Caleykum
And for a more in depth explanation, Watch the video
A.S.W.W, Send peace and blessing on prophet Muhammad PBUH. I think now you have enough resources from Quran Kareem to find about Allah SWT existence in it. Definitely Allah has discussed itself many times in Quran.
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