This has been on my mind for a while latley, I have a question relating to Surah An-Nisa , verse 157 [4:157] which reads:
{ وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُ هُ وَلَـكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِّنْهُ مَا لَهُم بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلاَّ اتِّبَاعَ الظَّنِّ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِيناً }
------
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
The “traditional” Muslim belief is that the Messenger of Allah, Isa ibn Maryam (alayhi-salaam) was “subsituted” with someone else one the cross and someone else was made to appear to have died on the cross but the grammar from the verse reveals that Hadhrat Isa (alayhi-salaam) HIMSELF was made to appear on the cross there are two problems with that theory in my opinion:
(1) the Quran says :
وَلَـكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ
“wa lakin shubbiha lahum”
but so it was made to appear to them
What was it made to appear to them? That Isa (alayhi-salaam) HIMSELF was crucified ; not anyone else, he had to be on the cross to appear to be crucified, there is no mention of anyone like Juda being on the cross to “subsitute” for Isa (alayhi-salaam).
(2) The second key point is that the word مَا صَلَبُ “ Ma-Salaboohu” means to have died from crucifixion, the lexicon in Taj al Uroos gives us the following meaning for “ Ma-Salaboohu”:
'Saleeb' means fat. In Sehah the marrow of the bones is called 'saleeb'. One crucified is called 'Maslub' because the marrow of his bones exudes. 'Salab' is derived from "the known way of killing". For the marrow and other fluids exude foth from the bones of a crucified person.
So “ Ma-Salaboohu” means that they failed to kill him on the cross, not that he wasn't put on the cross because the word means to die on the cross.
Now how did this “subsitutution" theory come up when the verse says that he was put on the cross, but they failed to kill him (Ma-Salaboohu) and that he , Jesus (alayhi-salaam), appeared to die on the cross (wa lakin shubbiha lahum)?
actually if u erad the story there's 2 versions.. it's said that one of the ppl who conspired 2 kill isa was made to appear like Isa and so they thought it was jesus adn so they killed the conspirer instead of jesus himself..
and in another story, jesus asked 'who will take my position on the cross'.. and one of his students (i think the youngest) went forth, and so jesus wiped his face and he appeared 2 look like him and so he sacrificed himself fee sabiliilah
salams
lol what story is this bro? It's not from the Quran...format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
actually if u erad the story there's 2 versions.. it's said that one of the ppl who conspired 2 kill isa was made to appear like Isa and so they thought it was jesus adn so they killed the conspirer instead of jesus himself..
and in another story, jesus asked 'who will take my position on the cross'.. and one of his students (i think the youngest) went forth, and so jesus wiped his face and he appeared 2 look like him and so he sacrificed himself fee sabiliilah
salams
wat, r u another cousin of ameen?(rejector of hadith
)
anwar awlaki has an epsidoe on it.. he metnions the sources, one of them is an isra-iliyyah from memory.. it goes in2 details in there..
but i dont c how ur thing negates the idea of someone taking his position just like ali took the propehts position when he was diong Hijra...
ofcourse he wasnt crucified, but how does that prove that soemone else wasnt crucified instead of himSo “ Ma-Salaboohu” means that they failed to kill him on the cross, not that he wasn't put on the cross because the word means to die on the cross
As salaamu alaykum,
I studied that this meant, when the disbeliever gathered round Isaa alayhis salaams house one ofwa lakin shubbiha lahum”
but so it was made to appear to them
them was told to enter and bring him out, so one man went in..it was then that Allahu subhanuu wa ta
3aalaa raised him!!
the disbeliver was then made to look like Isaa alayhis salaam so when he went back out he appeared
to be in Isa's form.. and the others ended up killing him!!
No, "wa maa qataluuhu wa maa salabuhuu" means: That they did not kill him, NOR did they crucify him!!2) The second key point is that the word مَا صَلَبُ “ Ma-Salaboohu” means to have died from
crucifixion, the lexicon in Taj al Uroos gives us the following meaning for “ Ma-Salaboohu”:
'Saleeb' means fat. In Sehah the marrow of the bones is called 'saleeb'. One crucified is called 'Maslub' because the marrow of his bones exudes. 'Salab' is derived from "the known way of killing". For the marrow and other fluids exude foth from the bones of a crucified person.
So “ Ma-Salaboohu” means that they failed to kill him on the cross, not that he wasn't put on the cross because the word means to die on the cross.
Wallahu A3lam..
Check in Tafseer Ibnu Katheer InshaAllah!
Last edited by amirah_87; 09-14-2006 at 02:36 PM.
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwateverwat, r u another cousin of ameen?
anwar awlaki has an epsidoe on it.. he metnions the sources, one of them is an isra-iliyyah from memory.. it goes in2 details in there..
but i dont c how ur thing negates the idea of someone taking his position just like ali took the propehts position when he was diong Hijra...
ofcourse he wasnt crucified, but how does that prove that soemone else wasnt crucified instead of him
There is a hadith on it!? Can you provide the source?
Thx
i think there's a difference of opinion from among the scholars.. Allaahu a'lam if there's a hadith or not.
i also heard theres a difference of opinion, Wallahu Allam....
So scholars are divided on it? Anyways, I found another explanation of Surah 4:157, , Muhammad Asad Leopold Weiss a famous convert to Islam writes in his tafseer The Message of The Quran :
Note 171 (Quran Ref: 4:157 )
Thus, the Qur’an categorically denies the story of the crucifixion of Jesus. There exist, among Muslims, many fanciful legends telling us that at the last moment God substituted for Jesus a person closely resembling him (according to some accounts, that person was Judas), who was subsequently crucified in his place. However, none of these legends finds the slightest support in the Qur’an or in authentic Traditions, and the stories produced in this connection by the classical commentators must be summarily rejected. They represent no more than confused attempts at "harmonizing" the Qur’anic statement that Jesus was not crucified with the graphic description, in the Gospels, of his crucifixion. The story of the crucifixion as such has been succinctly explained in the Qur’anic phrase wa-lakin shubbiha lahum, which I render as "but it only appeared to them as if it had been so" - implying that in the course of time, long after the time of Jesus, a legend had somehow grown up (possibly under the then-powerful influence of Mithraistic beliefs) to the effect that he had died on the cross in order to atone for the "original sin" with which mankind is allegedly burdened; and this legend became so firmly established among the latter-day followers of Jesus that even his enemies, the Jews, began to believe it - albeit in a derogatory sense (for crucifixion was, in those times, a heinous form of death-penalty reserved for the lowest of criminals). This, to my mind, is the only satisfactory explanation of the phrase wa-lakin shubbiha lahum, the more so as the expression shubbiha li is idiomatically synonymous with khuyyila 1i, "[a thing] became a fancied image to me", i.e., "in my mind" - in other words, "[it] seemed to me" (see Qamus, art. khayala, as well as Lane II, 833, and IV, 1500).(Quran Ref: 4:157 )
SOURCE
So I guess there is no hadith on subsitution,
Allahu alim I guess.
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks