An extract from Tafsir Ibn Kathir of Surah 88 Al-Ghashiyah

format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah

Bro relax I'm not denying that it is sad to us!!!

But as sad as we might get in this life we will know the reality of it on the Day of Judgement...

there a hadith about prophet Ibraheem, anout how on the day of judgement he will say to Allah swt that didnt You promise to to dishonour me? what can be a greater dishonour then sending my father to hell fire or something like that... and Allah swt will reply by showing him his father in the form of hyena and he will realise that his dad was meant for hell and stuff...

so yeh... its sad and all, but we shouldnt let your sadness get in the way of the biggest picture...

Cheese man,

I didnt say that it was unfair or anything, I didnt say it was unjust. I'm just saying its very sad.

i rememba when i was 16 i was talking to one o ma super practising bro's. and i asked him "dont you feel sry for those that go to hell... non muslims i mean", he said, "they only oppress themselves, Allah wants them saved but thats their fault, i will never feel sorry for anyone who rejects Allah swt".

Make dua'a for them sure but, why do they not accept the clear signs of the one whos sustaining them...

:'(

Lifes hard!,

so basically just be sad.

Peace :'(

format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim

i rememba when i was 16 i was talking to one o ma super practising bro's. and i asked him "dont you feel sry for those that go to hell... non muslims i mean", he said, "they only oppress themselves, Allah wants them saved but thats their fault, i will never feel sorry for anyone who rejects Allah swt".

Make dua'a for them sure but, why do they not accept the clear signs of the one whos sustaining them...

OH man, so are we now saying its wrong for 'Umar to have cried.

Come on, this thread is not to debate whether everyone gets a clear sign from Allah and whether people deserve going hell. Of course yes to both those questions. But the fact is that it is still a sad thing, for me personally, I see my mom day in day out working hard for praying, doing all sorts of things and then come Judgement day she'll have nothing. Am I debating as to whether that is right or wrong, NO, am just saying just as 'Umar cried then its ok for some of us to cry because it is a sad situation.

your right though it is sad, thats why i said "make dua'a for them, and why do they not accept the one who sustains them"

i keep thinking of the amount of times the prophet saws tried to revert Abu Jahl and his crew (hayatus sahabah) and each time they mocked him and he was so hurt...

format_quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi

Cheese man,

I didnt say that it was unfair or anything, I didnt say it was unjust. I'm just saying its very sad.

Calm down! I understand perfectly what you mean. Yes it is a very sad and scary thought that people will live their lives thinking they are worshiping God when in reality they are paving their way to hell. It is very, very sad. And not only for the non-muslims, for the ignorant amongst the Muslims too.

I was simply trying to point out that the reason we feel sad is that, other than because Allah swt made us that way, we are limited in our understanding, judgement and wisdom.

But I know and understand totally, 100%, that yes it is very sad.

Sorry if i offended you Eesa, very sorry, it wasnt my intention at all.

format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah

Calm down!

Sister, this is the second time you said this to me, am not :grumbling nor am I :rant: lol I've been calm well maybe like or even a little like but I wasnt angry at you or anything. I think I just come across like that sometime, sorry if I did.

format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah

I was simply trying to point out that the reason we feel sad is that, other than because Allah swt made us that way, we are limited in our understanding, judgement and wisdom.

But I know and understand totally, 100%, that yes it is very sad.

I think I'll leave it here since I disagree to some point.

Eesa.

I understand what is meant by Eesa. If we read in seerah, the Prophet's own uncle whom he loved, Abu Talib, remained in his religion even to the last breath. This is remembered as the Year of Sadness.

You can imagine what Nabi feels when someone dear to him died in state of shirk. Sadness is allowed, but Allah reminded him that he's just a warner, and that faith is something that is entirely in Allah's control.

As a da'ie, I also feel sad when I couldn't get my non-Muslim friends convinced enough to convert to Islam. Some of them would make very good Muslims. But I understand that I cannot put faith in their hearts, I can only be a factor in multitudes of other factors. I must put trust in Allah's wisdom, and that He knows what I don't know. What has happened, must have happened for the best.

format_quote Originally Posted by glo

Hi snakelegs
I think what's difficult for you as an agnostic to understand, is that for Christians (and Muslims for that matter) the afterlife is ultimately more important. Yes, this earthly life is wonderful and worth cherishing and being grateful for ... but ultimately it is the afterlife, the eternity in or out of God's presence, which matters more.
Peace

glo - you hit on it exactly. it is very difficult to grasp this concept and to really understand the enormous importance the afterlife has for those who believe in it.
probably people who don't believe in it are just as incomprehensible to those that do.

format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah

I agree with Glo. Islamic history is full of Muslims who knew the risks but didn't give up because of it. People would actually announce themselves to be Muslims in public in the early days of Islam in a majority non-muslim society who hated the Muslims. As soon as they made the announcement, the non-Muslims around them would gang-up on them and bash them up to an inch from death, but to many of them it was worth it.

And then you have the companions who would go out to war wanting death, and someone of them would even return to their familes alive and their familes would be disappointed that they didnt die in the war, because they know that the reward for the martyr is great.

you and glo are right. i can not understand this.

eesa,
i'm sorry for de-railing your thread.
you are a very special person, very compassionate.
god bless you.

format_quote Originally Posted by chris4336

I also believed for awhile that those who did not understand Islam and therefore did not accept it would be forgiven by God on the last day. I'm not so sure if that is truely a teaching of Islam, but surely a teaching of Islam is that God is the most perfect judge.

Hi Chris,

You can find some answers to this here: http://www.islamicboard.com/general-...onmuslims.html

format_quote Originally Posted by chris4336

I also believed for awhile that those who did not understand Islam and therefore did not accept it would be forgiven by God on the last day. I'm not so sure if that is truely a teaching of Islam, but surely a teaching of Islam is that God is the most perfect judge.

format_quote Originally Posted by chris4336

Okay just want to add this that that saddest part of all is that those in my family are truly worshipping God the best way they know how. Do you know what I mean? They are honestly doing the best they can, and its so sad to think they might be punished for this.

The main question I am understanding is, will Allah punish those who were sincere?

The answer from what I understand is that all that will be in hell will have had messengers and known about those messengers:

067.008
SHAKIR: Almost bursting for fury. Whenever a group is cast into it, its keeper shall ask them: Did there not come to you a warner?

067.009
SHAKIR: They shall say: Yea! indeed there came to us a warner, but we rejected (him) and said: Allah has not revealed anything, you are only in a great error.

035.037
SHAKIR: And they shall cry therein for succour: O our Lord ! take us out, we will do good deeds other than those which we used to do. Did We not preserve you alive long enough, so that he who would be mindful in it should mind? And there came to you the warner; therefore taste; because for the unjust, there is no helper.

I have heard other hadeeth too, but this kind of shows that noone will go into the fire unless a Prophet or Messenger is given to them and they rejected him, Islam should also have been presented properly.

format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs

eesa,
i'm sorry for de-railing your thread.

Ameen to your dua and no worries its producing nice discussion so am happy.

Some more verses to contemplate....

قُلْ يَا عِبَادِيَ الَّذِينَ أَسْرَفُوا عَلَى أَنفُسِهِمْ لَا تَقْنَطُوا مِن رَّحْمَةِ اللَّهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَغْفِرُ الذُّنُوبَ جَمِيعاً إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ
وَأَنِيبُوا إِلَى رَبِّكُمْ وَأَسْلِمُوا لَهُ مِن قَبْلِ أَن يَأْتِيَكُمُ الْعَذَابُ ثُمَّ لَا تُنصَرُونَ
وَاتَّبِعُوا أَحْسَنَ مَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُم مِّن رَّبِّكُم مِّن قَبْلِ أَن يَأْتِيَكُمُ العَذَابُ بَغْتَةً وَأَنتُمْ لَا تَشْعُرُونَ
أَن تَقُولَ نَفْسٌ يَا حَسْرَتَى علَى مَا فَرَّطتُ فِي جَنبِ اللَّهِ وَإِن كُنتُ لَمِنَ السَّاخِرِينَ
أَوْ تَقُولَ لَوْ أَنَّ اللَّهَ هَدَانِي لَكُنتُ مِنَ الْمُتَّقِينَ
أَوْ تَقُولَ حِينَ تَرَى الْعَذَابَ لَوْ أَنَّ لِي كَرَّةً فَأَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُحْسِنِينَ
بَلَى قَدْ جَاءتْكَ آيَاتِي فَكَذَّبْتَ بِهَا وَاسْتَكْبَرْتَ وَكُنتَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ

{ Say: O My servants who have sinned against themselves, never despair of God's mercy. Behold, God forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful. And turn in repentance to your Lord and submit to Him before there comes upon you a punishment, for then there will be none to help you. And follow the best of God's revelations to you (the Qur'an) before there comes upon you a sudden punishment while you percieve it not.

Lest any soul should say, "Alas! I neglected my duty towards God and I was of those who scoffed at the revelations." Or lest he should say, "If only God had granted me guidance, I would surely have been amongst the righteous." Or lest he might say upon seeing the punishment, "If only I had just one more chance so that I could be among those who do good!"

But certainly, there came to you my revelations, but you denied them and were arrogant, and became amongst the disbelievers. }

(Qur'ân 39:53-59)

O Allah, do not make us amongst those who turn away from your revelations and are overwhelmed with regret on the Day of Judgement!