An extract from Tafsir Ibn Kathir of Surah 88 Al-Ghashiyah

True. that really make's me sad.

i've often wondered why is it so simple to revert to islam, merely by saying the shahadah?
i know it's easy to become a christian, but it isn't a whole way of life.
there is so much to learn in islam, shouldn't a person learn a few basic things (such as the 5 pillars, etc)?
islam is not as simple as it appears at first glance.
orthodox jews refuse to accept new converts until they have done some serious studying - i think they tell them to wait a year.
be interested in your thoughts.

Well if the person died in that one year of study, he/she would have died as a non-Muslim and so could not enter paradise, right? As long as the person is sure that Islam is the true path, then they should go for it.

Some people converted to Islam just by listening to a few lines from the Quran being read at the time of the prophet! But I guess for them it was easier to accept because of their culture and stuff (for some of them anyway)

the point is, he becomes muslim immediately, makes the shahada 1-2-3.
maybe a week later he learns about the 5 pillars and thinks he can just ignore the command to pray 5 times a day.
or maybe she learns the next day that she must cover and decides it's not important.
what i'm trying to say is that it's easy to become a muslim, but what if, after a little further study, he finds some things he can not accept because they're too inconvenient, or some other reason.
so he completely rejects islam.
isn't his punishment even worse than it would've been had he remained whatever he was before?
the impression is that it's simple to become a muslim - just say the shahadah and presto! but it is not all that simple and there is a lot to learn.
after studying islam for awhile, then he is in a position to make an informed decision.
somewhere i read of a christian group who tries to convert muslims in muslim countries. they were asked, well, in these countries if a muslim becomes a christian he can be killed - doesn't this concern you. the answer was no, because even if they kill him, he will be saved from eternal ****ation (or something like that). i thought that was pretty bizarre.

But why on earth would a person want to become Muslim if they didn't know anything about it?! That doesnt make sense, of course they would know enough for them to want to become Muslim and to be convinced that it is the right path!

What right do we have to tell someone to get lost and that he cant become a Muslim becuase he has to have some kind fo waiting period? Why should time have anything to do with it? As long as the person is convinced, then go for it.

well, you do have a point there.
if the person learns some things that he cannot accept, after he has reverted, and rejects islam as a result - is his punishment worse than if he remained a died a kafir?

format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs

somewhere i read of a christian group who tries to convert muslims in muslim countries. they were asked, well, in these countries if a muslim becomes a christian he can be killed - doesn't this concern you. the answer was no, because even if they kill him, he will be saved from eternal ****ation (or something like that). i thought that was pretty bizarre.

Hi snakelegs

I think what's difficult for you as an agnostic to understand, is that for Christians (and Muslims for that matter) the afterlife is ultimately more important. Yes, this earthly life is wonderful and worth cherishing and being grateful for ... but ultimately it is the afterlife, the eternity in or out of God's presence, which matters more.

That's why many Christians and Muslims can accept suffering and hardship is this life - believing that it will lead to greater things in the afterlife ...

So, if somebody converts to the 'true religion' (let's keep aside any ideas on what that may be ...), and as a consequence suffers ridicule, persecution or even death threats, that's seen by many as just part of the way to salvation.

Peace

I agree with Glo. Islamic history is full of Muslims who knew the risks but didn't give up because of it. People would actually announce themselves to be Muslims in public in the early days of Islam in a majority non-muslim society who hated the Muslims. As soon as they made the announcement, the non-Muslims around them would gang-up on them and bash them up to an inch from death, but to many of them it was worth it.

And then you have the companions who would go out to war wanting death, and someone of them would even return to their familes alive and their familes would be disappointed that they didnt die in the war, because they know that the reward for the martyr is great.

format_quote Originally Posted by glo

Yes, this earthly life is wonderful and worth cherishing and being grateful for ...

This earthly life is heaven for disbelievers and hell for the believers

format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian

This earthly life is heaven for disbelievers and hell for the believers

Thank you for your contribution, north_malaysian.
How much do you, personally, value your earthly life? I am just asking because you describe it as 'hell'. That seems a strong word to use ...

Peace

Hi Glo,

This is how the Prophet Muhammad pbuh explained it. He meant, compared to the believers home in paradise, this world is like hell (EDIT- he might have said a prison rather then hell, but same concept) , becasue they will love paradise soooo much more. However for the non-believer, this world is a paradise for him compared to the torment of the hell-fire.

Oh man guys, I saw that this thread had 11 replies and I was like 'whoohooo' then I see that most are not much on the topic

Anyhow, the reason I posted this thread was to show or remind muslims that it's not a battle or a score board game type of conquest, it's not 'us' against 'them' or 'I got one more revert than that Christian' but it is actually a sad situation.
Also another motivation to post this was as to kind of remind t he Muslims who do have parents and loves ones who are not Muslims and that they worry about that it's ok to worry and it's ok to cry and so forth as those before us have done, and in the above case, cried for total strangers.

format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs

i've often wondered why is it so simple to revert to islam, merely by saying the shahadah?
i know it's easy to become a christian, but it isn't a whole way of life.
there is so much to learn in islam, shouldn't a person learn a few basic things (such as the 5 pillars, etc)?
islam is not as simple as it appears at first glance.
orthodox jews refuse to accept new converts until they have done some serious studying - i think they tell them to wait a year.
be interested in your thoughts.

Snakelegs, in an ideal situation a person would learn some parts of Islam, for example, once I was on a bus with some brothers, and some guys heard us talk about Islam and they came upto us and said 'when does the Mosque open' we we're like 'Erm, not sure why?' and he just said 'I want to become Muslim' so we spent that evening diverting out route to just take time to sit with them and a brother explained to one of them the pillars of Islam some do's and dont's and one became Muslim and the other said he would like to research into it abit.

So it is ideal that a person is at least taught a little bit, but in some situations the person might feel ready already and so you help that person become Muslim and then you would explain parts to him.

I think in alot of cases, people who are willing to accept Islam don't disagree with many of the points afterwards anyone when they have been explained to them properly.

format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor

Asalaamu alaikum,

i remembering hearing a lecture that the Prophet Muhammed's(PBUH) Umma will be half of the people that enter Paradise.

if that's so, doesn't that mean that close to half of the population will be non-Muslims??

are we told they will be Jews/Israelis and/or Christians somewhere?

Wa aleykum salam,

What was Abraham? Muslim.

So we are now, from the time of Muhammad, peace be upon him, Muhammad's Ummah, those that he was sent to, we have him as our prophet and messenger and his law is what we use.

People before Muhammad, could have been Muslims, in the sense taht they obeyed and followed the right way. So followers of Moses who done good will be in paradise, so will be followers of Jesus and the list goes on.. Peace be upon them all.


Cheese - With regards to the hadeeth I have never seen it, not that earth is hell? I have heard that dunya is like a prison.

format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor

*adds on topic reply*

well, personally, i weep more for the Umma of Islam...

but if you're suggesting that we make extra du'as for our Christian brothers and sisters at their "special time of year"...why not!

Yea but the Ummah, they wont go hell, well some might for abit, but I mean those who associate with Allah, they spend their whole life trying and twisting and turning and so on and then bam hell. I find that sad.

^Well it only seems sad to us because we are humans and that is our limitation but Allah swt is Just and He is more mercyful then we could ever imagine and yet He still will put them in hell fire, so I guess He knows best what makes a person worthy of the fire.

May He protect us from it and Guide us to the right path!

format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah

^Well it only seems sad to us because we are humans and that is our limitation but Allah swt is Just and He is more mercyful then we could ever imagine and yet He still will put them in hell fire, so I guess He knows best what makes a person worthy of the fire.

May He protect us from it and Guide us to the right path!

Sister, we can still be sad and still understand that it is something deserved, I mean if my kid kills someone and so my kid is to be executed, I will of course know that he deserved it but I'd still be sad.

I know, thats why I said: It might seem sad to us.

format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah

I know, thats why I said: It might seem sad to us.

It's not about 'seeming' sad, it is sad. I mean whether or not they deserve paradise thats something else, but it's still sad, in this world they spend their life fasting and sacrafising things, whilst other kafirs might have done everything they wanted, yet both will go hell, I understand the reason and the wisdom and that its something they deserve but sad none the less.