In hadeeth we are told that Isa Alaihis Salaam will descend on the white minaret of a masjid in As Shaam (Syria) wearing two lightly dyed yellow garments - this masjid was widely believed to be the Umayyad Masjid. Ibn Kathir testified to the hadeeth and the masjid.
...well, now that minaret was destroyed on the 24th April 2013... so what now? Can anyone of knowledge tell me what this means for the return of Isa Alaihis Salaam?
Do any of our Students of Knowledge/Scholars have an answer to this?
There's really no way to know 100% that the minaret in Ummayed Mosque is the one referred to. It's Isa's (alayhis salaam) arrival that will distinguish which minaret will be the one he descends to, and the only information that is there in regards to the description of the minaret is that it will be white and in the Eastern region of Damashq (damascus). It's very possible that another minaret will be built and will be even more widely known. Considering that there will greater battles in the Shaam region, many mosques, buildings, artifacts will be destroyed until the time of the Hour when 'Isa alayhis salaam will return. Wa allahu a'lem.
Yet scholars have been saying for over a thousand years that the Umayyad masjid is the one referred to.
I also have another issue regarding the "raising" of Isa Alaihis Salaam, but this is way to sensitive for this board. And the so-called students of knowledge with blue titles hardly chime in - they just spam their own threads and leave.
Yet scholars have been saying for over a thousand years that the Umayyad masjid is the one referred to.
I also have another issue regarding the "raising" of Isa Alaihis Salaam, but this is way to sensitive for this board. And the so-called students of knowledge with blue titles hardly chime in - they just spam their own threads and leave.
Losing confidence here fast.
Scimi
Well I'm no scholar but it's common sense I guess. Scholars are human with the ability to make mistakes, and that's not to say though that they are wrong in this regard, because no matter what we say or what they say it's all speculation until the actual event happens. It could very well be that this minaret will be rebuilt and the mosque will be reconstructed and still apply. Who knows?
What's your issue in regards to the raising? I'm bored. Enlighten me.
Rasoolullaah Sallallaahu `Alayhi wa Sallam said, "...Allaah will send al-Maseeh (i.e. Nabi `Eesa `Alayhis Salaam) and he will descend by the White Minaarah in eastern Dimashq (Damascus)..." [Narrated in Saheeh Muslim.]
At the time of this Hadeeth, there was no white Minaarah in eastern Dimashq. Hence, there is no Ishkaal (difficulty) here. The Hadeeth does not specify which Masjid's Minaarah it will be, nor when this descent will take place. Imaam ibn Katheer's view that it is the Umawi Masjid was just that; his view. Just like there was no White Minaarah in eastern Dimashq at the time of Rasoolullaah Sallallaahu `Alayhi wa Sallam, but it only came about afterwards, in the same way a white Minaarah in eastern Dimashq will be in existence at the time `Eesa `Alayhis Salaam descends. I do not see what is difficult in understanding this. Was it revealed in the Qur'aan or in the Sunnah that `Eesa `Alayhis Salaam will descend in June 2016? If not, then whether a Minaarah of the Umawi Masjid gets destroyed or built is insignificant. Certain contemporary `Ulamaa opine that the time of the Mahdi and Nabi `Eesa `Alayhis Salaam is still 100 years away; whether that has any truth or not, Allaahu A`lam. The point is that we do not know when he will descend. Any `Aalim's opinion in this regard is not Qur'aan and Sunnah; it it simply his opinion, which may or may not be correct.
Masaajid are bombed everyday, around the world. Buildings get rebuilt. And again, it is not mentioned in the Qur'aan or in the Sunnah that `Eesa `Alayhis Salaam will descend on the White Minaarah of the Umawi Masjid. That was the opinion of Imaam ibn Katheer Rahmatullaahi `Alayhi and some other `Ulamaa. Hence, one of two situations can transpire:
1) Nabi `Eesa `Alayhis Salaam can descend by any white Minaarah in eastern Dimashq. It can happen that every single Minaarah in Shaam is destroyed in our time, but by the time Allaah Ta`aalaa sends `Eesa `Alayhis Salaam, there is once again a White Minaarah in eastern Dimashq.
2) The White Minaarah of the Umawi Masjid is rebuilt before `Eesa `Alayhis Salaam descends.
[P.S. The "so-called students of knowledge with blue titles" have lives outside of forums, and have work and things they are busy with, and so cannot be expected to be available to answer every person's questions, objections and doubts 24 hours a day on an internet forum. When they are free, they answer.]
والله تعالى أعلم
واسلام
Last edited by Huzaifah ibn Adam; 06-23-2016 at 11:01 AM.
Add to what? It's pretty straight-forward. Speculating anything more than that does nothing.
I was not looking for speculation - which is what the scholar has done and yourself regarding a "Possibility it may be built again in future (the white minaret)"
So please, do not apply that which you are guilty of - to me.
Add to what? It's pretty straight-forward. Speculating anything more than that does nothing.
I think it's unfair to say that speculating anything more than that does nothing. This is part of our study of eschatology, it's research and discussion. Not only Scimi, but myself and others have interests in these subjects to gain a better understanding on the scope of it all. That's all it is. To shoot it down by saying no, you shouldn't be looking into it, and this and this is what it is (even if it was a copy paste and there was no additional contribution), it is not beneficial for those who wish to study these areas and contexts.
There is no disrespect towards anyone. There are muslims out there who wish to delve into this and require the space for discussion, and if IB can't offer that then it's a bit of a shame. The study of eschatology is not straight forward, it is very in depth, and I believe it is vital that we understand and seek knowledge in this area. For, without a doubt, we are living in the end times, this should surely speak for itself.
Shouldn't there be a QUESTION MARK at the end of your sentence? You are now claiming you know the future if you say no.
Scimi
No, there shouldn't be a question mark, because we believe in what the Messenger of Allah has told us. If he said 'Isa will descend on a white minar, then I am 1000% sure that there will be a white minar when he descends.
Well I'm no scholar but it's common sense I guess. Scholars are human with the ability to make mistakes, and that's not to say though that they are wrong in this regard, because no matter what we say or what they say it's all speculation until the actual event happens. It could very well be that this minaret will be rebuilt and the mosque will be reconstructed and still apply. Who knows?
What's your issue in regards to the raising? I'm bored. Enlighten me.
May I also highlight the above. Scimi is very straight forward in his approach and not candy coated. This is merely a thread for research, contribution and discussion.
I was not looking for speculation - which is what the scholar has done and yourself regarding a "Possibility it may be built again in future (the white minaret)"
So please, do not apply that which you are guilty of - to me.
Scimi
Yes it's all speculation because no one knows until that time comes. If you were looking for more evidence/descriptions about this particular incident, then be more clear. However, if this is the only daleel, then there's nothing more to add or elaborate further on really. I personally can't say I've studied this in depth to offer more insight than that.
format_quote Originally Posted by L V
I think it's unfair to say that speculating anything more than that does nothing. This is part of our study of eschatology, it's research and discussion. Not only Scimi, but myself and others have interests in these subjects to gain a better understanding on the scope of it all. That's all it is. To shoot it down by saying no, you shouldn't be looking into it, and this and this is what it is (even if it was a copy paste and there was no additional contribution), it is not beneficial for those who wish to study these areas and contexts.
There is no disrespect towards anyone. There are muslims out there who wish to delve into this and have the space for discussion, and if IB can't offer that then it's a bit of a shame. The study of eschatology is not straight forward, it is very in depth, and I believe it is vital that we understand and seek knowledge in this area. For, without a doubt, we are living in the end times, this should surely speak for itself.
~LV
In regards to speculating, we'll just be going around in circles because we don't know for sure based on that particular hadith. I'm not at all shooting anything down, I'm just saying that there's not much more to cover unless there is more ahadith surrounding this event. I can see now that Scimi wanted more evidence, though my point was that our opinions don't really matter because that's all they will ever be until that time arrives.
format_quote Originally Posted by L V
May I also highlight the above. Scimi is very straight forward in his approach and not candy coated. This is merely a thread for research, contribution and discussion.
That's not sugarcoating. If there's only one white minaret in that area that is known thus far which somewhat fits the description given, then it's quite possible that it will be the one that will be attributed to the hadith unless there's some circumstance that changes that, such as the one Scimi has shown.
I understand what you're saying, but the lack of enthusiasm is a sure killer for those who strive to seek knowledge, and for the purpose of this thread. For God told man to read. "Educate your opinion". We have the capability in finding the nuances in our search for truth should God Will it.
For someone who's spent more than a decade sacrificing and dedicating his life for this very purpose for the sake of the ummah, I find it pretty uptight that you cannot even give him room to be himself sometimes. He is still an elder here, and a much experienced one who has taught me much. So despite his flaws and his methods, he still deserves my respect.
For someone who's spent more than a decade sacrificing and dedicating his life for this very purpose for the sake of the ummah, I find it pretty uptight that you cannot even give him room to be himself sometimes. He is still an elder here, and a much experienced one who has taught me much. So despite his flaws and his methods, he still deserves my respect.
I don't know why suddenly you have become so defensive. We are not constricting him, just asking him to be polite in his approach with people of knowledge. If he has something to say on the matter, he is all welcome. We can all gain some knowledge and understanding.
But to say someone is simply copy-pasting and "so-called students of knowledge with blue titles hardly chime in - they just spam their own threads and leave" is outright offensive and cannot be tolerated here. They have spent far more time and efforts into studying the Deen, and under the guidance of senior scholars. They have studied all aspects of Deen, not just one branch of it, so they deserve far more respect than anyone else here.
I understand what you're saying, but the lack of enthusiasm is a sure killer for those who strive to seek knowledge, and for the purpose of this thread. For God told man to read. "Educate your opinion". We have the capability in finding the nuances in our search for truth should God Will it.
For someone who's spent more than a decade sacrificing and dedicating his life for this very purpose for the sake of the ummah, I find it pretty uptight that you cannot even give him room to be himself sometimes. He is still an elder here, and a much experienced one who has taught me much. So despite his flaws and his methods, he still deserves my respect.
There's no lack of enthusiasm. A misunderstanding? Yes, possibly. I love an intellectually stimulating conversation as much as the next guy, but I don't like to beat around the bush.
Uptight for not letting him be himself?? Are you kidding me? How am I restricting him in the least? He's untamed and clearly has no problems expressing his views. You'd be giving me mad props if you're alluding that I can control him. How about you let him speak for himself. I have respect for bro Scimi and I haven't said anything to make him feel at all unwelcome. If I did, I'm sure he would not be shy in letting me know.
OK, let me ask you something to gage whether I am wasting time here or not.
DO you believe the etymological rooting of the words Ya'juj and Majuj are justified in Arabic? And if so, WHY????
Let's see how you can disseminate contexts. This is open to everyone, including the scholars and students of knowledge.
Scimi
EDIT:
format_quote Originally Posted by ibn-Adam
No, there shouldn't be a question mark, because we believe in what the Messenger of Allah has told us. If he said 'Isa will descend on a white minar, then I am 1000% sure that there will be a white minar when he descends.
So you follow the ahadeeth blindly because they are infallible? lol... bro, please try again.
There's no lack of enthusiasm. A misunderstanding? Yes, possibly. I love an intellectually stimulating conversation as much as the next guy, but I don't like to beat around the bush.
Uptight for not letting him be himself?? Are you kidding me? How am I restricting him in the least? He's untamed and clearly has no problems expressing his views. You'd be giving me mad props if you're alluding that I can control him. How about you let him speak for himself. I have respect for bro Scimi and I haven't said anything to make him feel at all unwelcome. If I did, I'm sure he would not be shy in letting me know.
untamed? character assassination apparently only applies to us "non scholars" on this board lol - hypocrites.
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I'm bored. Enlighten me.
It's pretty straight-forward. Speculating anything more than that does nothing. 
descends.
has told us. If he said 'Isa 
How am I restricting him in the least? He's untamed and clearly has no problems expressing his views. You'd be giving me mad props if you're alluding that I can control him. How about you let him speak for himself. I have respect for bro Scimi and I haven't said anything to make him feel at all unwelcome. If I did, I'm sure he would not be shy in letting me know.
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