I was a fanatic...I know their thinking, says former radical Islamist
By HASSAN BUTT - More by this author »
When I was still a member of what is probably best termed the British Jihadi Network - a series of British Muslim terrorist groups linked by a single ideology - I remember how we used to laugh in celebration whenever people on TV proclaimed that the sole cause for Islamic acts of terror like 9/11, the Madrid bombings and 7/7 was Western foreign policy.
By blaming the Government for our actions, those who pushed this "Blair's bombs" line did our propaganda work for us.
More important, they also helped to draw away any critical examination from the real engine of our violence: Islamic theology.
The attempts to cause mass destruction in London and Glasgow are so reminiscent of other recent British Islamic extremist plots that they are likely to have been carried out by my former peers.
And as with previous terror attacks, people are again saying that violence carried out by Muslims is all to do with foreign policy.
For example, on Saturday on Radio 4's Today programme, the Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, said: "What all our intelligence shows about the opinions of disaffected young Muslims is the main driving force is not Afghanistan, it is mainly Iraq."
I left the British Jihadi Network in February 2006 because I realised that its members had simply become mindless killers. But if I were still fighting for their cause, I'd be laughing once again.
Mohammed Sidique Khan met with the author on two separate occasions
Mohammad Sidique Khan, the leader of the July 7 bombings, and I were both part of the network - I met him on two occasions.
And though many British extremists are angered by the deaths of fellow Muslim across the world, what drove me and many others to plot acts of extreme terror within Britain and abroad was a sense that we were fighting for the creation of a revolutionary worldwide Islamic state that would dispense Islamic justice.
If we were interested in justice, you may ask, how did this continuing violence come to be the means of promoting such a (flawed) Utopian goal?
How do Islamic radicals justify such terror in the name of their religion?
There isn't enough room to outline everything here, but the foundation of extremist reasoning rests upon a model of the world in which you are either a believer or an infidel.
Formal Islamic theology, unlike Christian theology, does not allow for the separation of state and religion: they are considered to be one and the same.
For centuries, the reasoning of Islamic jurists has set down rules of interaction between Dar ul-Islam (the Land of Islam) and Dar ul-Kufr (the Land of Unbelief) to cover almost every matter of trade, peace and war.
But what radicals and extremists do is to take this two steps further. Their first step has been to argue that, since there is no pure Islamic state, the whole world must be Dar ul-Kufr (The Land of Unbelief).
Step two: since Islam must declare war on unbelief, they have declared war upon the whole world.
Along with many of my former peers, I was taught by Pakistani and British radical preachers that this reclassification of the globe as a Land of War (Dar ul-Harb) allows any Muslim to destroy the sanctity of the five rights that every human is granted under Islam: life, wealth, land, mind and belief.
In Dar ul-Harb, anything goes, including the treachery and cowardice of attacking civilians.
The notion of a global battlefield has been a source of friction for Muslims living in Britain.
For decades, radicals have been exploiting the tensions between Islamic theology and the modern secular state - typically by starting debate with the question: "Are you British or Muslim?"
But the main reason why radicals have managed to increase their following is because most Muslim institutions in Britain just don't want to talk about theology.
They refuse to broach the difficult and often complex truth that Islam can be interpreted as condoning violence against the unbeliever - and instead repeat the mantra that Islam is peace and hope that all of this debate will go away.
This has left the territory open for radicals to claim as their own. I should know because, as a former extremist recruiter, I repeatedly came across those who had tried to raise these issues with mosque authorities only to be banned from their grounds.
Every time this happened it felt like a moral and religious victory for us because it served as a recruiting sergeant for extremism.
Outside Britain, there are those who try to reverse this two-step revisionism.
A handful of scholars from the Middle East have tried to put radicalism back in the box by saying that the rules of war devised so long ago by Islamic jurists were always conceived with the existence of an Islamic state in mind, a state which would supposedly regulate jihad in a responsible Islamic fashion.
In other words, individual Muslims don't have the authority to go around declaring global war in the name of Islam.
But there is a more fundamental reasoning that has struck me as a far more potent argument because it involves recognising the reality of the world: Muslims don't actually live in the bipolar world of the Middle Ages any more.
The fact is that Muslims in Britain are citizens of this country. We are no longer migrants in a Land of Unbelief.
For my generation, we were born here, raised here, schooled here, we work here and we'll stay here.
But more than that, on a historically unprecedented scale, Muslims in Britain have been allowed to assert their religious identity through clothing, the construction of mosques, the building of cemeteries and equal rights in law.
However, it isn't enough for responsible Muslims to say that, because they feel at home in Britain, they can simply ignore those passages of the Koran which instruct on killing unbelievers.
Because so many in the Muslim community refuse to challenge centuries-old theological arguments, the tensions between Islamic theology and the modern world grow larger every day.
I believe that the issue of terrorism can be easily demystified if Muslims and non-Muslims start openly to discuss the ideas that fuel terrorism.
Crucially, the Muslim community in Britain must slap itself awake from its state of denial and realise there is no shame in admitting the extremism within our families, communities and worldwide co-religionists.
If our country is going to take on radicals and violent extremists, Muslim scholars must go back to the books and come forward with a refashioned set of rules and a revised understanding of the rights and responsibilities of Muslims whose homes and souls are firmly planted in what I'd like to term the Land of Co-existence.
And when this new theological territory is opened up, Western Muslims will be able to liberate themselves from defunct models of the world, rewrite the rules of interaction and perhaps we will discover that the concept of killing in the name of Islam is no more than an anachronism.
I agree with it in the sense that greater communication is needed (and that's an understatement). More internal policing is needed within the Muslim community, as well as, in the first place, clarification of Islamic teachings. There also needs to be more communication between Muslims and non-Muslims, with the former initiating such dialogues more often.
I disagree with the author's assertions that all Muslims are harbouring secret, violent thoughts on how to massacre non-Muslims. He was on Newsnight last night, and said words to that effect, and I was just... shocked. Perhaps he had harboured such thoughts, but the entire community, including my family and I? Dude... Smoking was banned on Sunday.
I agree with it in the sense that greater communication is needed (and that's an understatement). More internal policing is needed within the Muslim community, as well as, in the first place, clarification of Islamic teachings. There also needs to be more communication between Muslims and non-Muslims, with the former initiating such dialogues more often.
I disagree with the author's assertions that all Muslims are harbouring secret, violent thoughts on how to massacre non-Muslims. He was on Newsnight last night, and said words to that effect, and I was just... shocked. Perhaps he had harboured such thoughts, but the entire community, including my family and I? Dude... Smoking was banned on Sunday.
Well, I don't believe the average Muslim is sitting around thinking of ways to blow up people either. I just think there is an element of denial involved with the problem within the Muslim community. Which is understandable, as the average person wouldn't understand how anyone could justify mass murder by looking to God.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
I found it to be a really interesting article as well, and I agree with the both of you. I dont think that the majority of Muslims sit around plotting on non muslims, as I have been reading the Quran myself and debating with myself and my wife as to whether I may become a revert. I can say from what I have read I dont find the Quran to be a book of violence, it does in some places tell you to stick up for yourself, but heck, my father used to tell me that all the time, never let anyone take you down. I think the problem is the verses that say this, the time it was all written, the scholars and imams that have joined in with it have made it possible for people to take it out of context, as you could do with anything that is left for the reader to interpret. It is what you make of it, what is bad is the people who wish to make bad of it, more often than not, get more attention than those who follow it as it should be followed.The part of this article that struck me rather hard was this part
[PIE]The notion of a global battlefield has been a source of friction for Muslims living in Britain.
For decades, radicals have been exploiting the tensions between Islamic theology and the modern secular state - typically by starting debate with the question: "Are you British or Muslim?"
But the main reason why radicals have managed to increase their following is because most Muslim institutions in Britain just don't want to talk about theology.
They refuse to broach the difficult and often complex truth that Islam can be interpreted as condoning violence against the unbeliever - and instead repeat the mantra that Islam is peace and hope that all of this debate will go away.
This has left the territory open for radicals to claim as their own. I should know because, as a former extremist recruiter, I repeatedly came across those who had tried to raise these issues with mosque authorities only to be banned from their grounds.
Every time this happened it felt like a moral and religious victory for us because it served as a recruiting sergeant for extremism.
[/PIE]
All in all though I think the article gives a pretty unique insight to how some of these "terrorist" or "radicals" perceive things, and what some of their motives and justifications are, I hope the article can be read by all objectively and it can continue to be discussed in a civil and constructive way.
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
With every post, you guys show your true colors. You don't have an issue with a fringe element of Muslims, you have a problem with islam as a whole.
Thanks for proving that you are waging a war on Islam and Muslims as a whole.
I see that you're still making excuses to avoid taking responsibility for the mess you created and keep feeding...
Let me get this straight....you are lecturing someone about posting propoganda?
This article has nothing to do with a "War on Islam", and it is not propoganda. These are the words of a former extremist and should at the very least be read and digested. If you disagree, fine.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
With every post, you guys show your true colors. You don't have an issue with a fringe element of Muslims, you have a problem with islam as a whole.
Thanks for proving that you are waging a war on Islam and Muslims as a whole.
I see that you're still making excuses to avoid taking responsibility for the mess you created and keep feeding...
Salaams bro,
Wallahi I couldn't have said it any better myself, you took the words right out of my mouth. It's best to just leave them be because their objective isn't to learn about Islam, but more to bash it. I don't even know why you bother, because you shouldn't, you're at a higher level of intelligence than them. It's like arguing with a brick wall.
Wallahi I couldn't have said it any better myself, you took the words right out of my mouth. It's best to just leave them be because their objective isn't to learn about Islam, but more to bash it. I don't even know why you bother, because you shouldn't, you're at a higher level of intelligence than them. It's like arguing with a brick wall.
W/Salaam
A higher level of intelligence would be able to discuss a topic without resorting to staw men and red herring arguments to change the subject.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
A higher level of intelligence would be able to discuss a topic without resorting to staw men and red herring arguments to change the subject.
LOL, it's funny how the only part of my statement that you disputed was the fact that I said that Zman was more intelligent than you. So you don't dispute the fact that you're only here to bash Islam? Alrighty then..
LOL, it's funny how the only part of my statement that you disputed was the fact that I said that Zman was more intelligent than you. So you don't dispute the fact that you're only here to bash Islam? Alrighty then..
That was covered by the straw man arguments and red herrings. It isn't worthy of a response, I was being generous.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
That was covered by the straw man arguments and red herrings. It isn't worthy of a response, I was being generous.
Lmao, why do you even bother? What do you get out of being on a website to 'inform' (*rolls eyes*) others of fanatical Islam? There are fanatics in every religion, and quite frankly I don't care. You're just here to cause trouble and shifts between us and with that being said, I'm done.
Lmao, why do you even bother? What do you get out of being on a website to 'inform' (*rolls eyes*) others of fanatical Islam? There are fanatics in every religion, and quite frankly I don't care. You're just here to cause trouble and shifts between us and with that being said, I'm done.
Peace.
I'm not here to "inform" anyone of anything. I'm here to discuss topics, hopefully in a constructive way. Fine, if you don't care about religious fanatics, why bother taking this thread off course in the first place? Discussing topics is not causing trouble...telling people they hate Muslims to avoid the topic is causing trouble.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
As most sane people whose heads are an inch above the sand are aware, terrorist attacks are being carried out by self-proclaimed Muslims. That doesn't mean all Muslims are terrorists, it doesn't mean I hate Muslims, and it doesn't mean I hate brown people. Since that is out of the way, this article gives an insight into the mind of one of these extremists. Most of what is stated I assumed to be true in the first place, but it is interesting to take a look at what makes some of these people tick. It might not help authorities stop future attacks, but knowing how these people justify their actions is important in itself.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
With every post, you guys show your true colors. You don't have an issue with a fringe element of Muslims, you have a problem with islam as a whole.
Thanks for proving that you are waging a war on Islam and Muslims as a whole.
I see that you're still making excuses to avoid taking responsibility for the mess you created and keep feeding...
Hmmm.. you commenting on propaganda.....
Anyways I do not mean for this to be propaganda at all, since propaganda means deceptive or distorted information that is systematically spread. I dont think anything about this article is deceptive or distorted as it came from the horses mouth, so to speak.
It is funny you suggest that I have a problem with Islam as a whole, perhaps you should read my above post. I am waging war on no religious group, and if you actually read the article thoroughly (past the 3rd line) and tried to take it in you might notice that the author is saying that Islam is being distorted by the terrorists to promote their own political agendas.
Do tell where is an excuse anywhere here? I challenged you earlier in another thread and you failed to provide your proof. It seems you are the one who is feeding this "mess", by living in denial that these things are happening, and could and probably will effect you personally at some point or another.
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
Wallahi I couldn't have said it any better myself, you took the words right out of my mouth. It's best to just leave them be because their objective isn't to learn about Islam, but more to bash it. I don't even know why you bother, because you shouldn't, you're at a higher level of intelligence than them. It's like arguing with a brick wall.
Wallahi I couldn't have said it any better myself, you took the words right out of my mouth. It's best to just leave them be because their objective isn't to learn about Islam, but more to bash it. I don't even know why you bother, because you shouldn't, you're at a higher level of intelligence than them. It's like arguing with a brick wall.
W/Salaam
What do you see wrong with this thread? Instead of commenting about the people who are posting on it, why dont you do what this forum is for and comment on the actually threads topic?
As far as the "higher level of intelligence" goes, well I think there is a verse or quote that could be taken from the the Sunnah where the Prophet (pbuh) told a man, that held his tongue with another man for a while before insulting him, that it would have been better to have said nothing at all. (I am looking for the actually language and I will post it when I find it)
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
For those members who want to truly learn, be objective, and gain an insight into the fanaticism of the other side, kindly view the videos I posted titled: "Jesus Camp," here:
For those members who want to truly learn, be objective, and gain an insight into the fanaticism of the other side, kindly view the videos I posted titled: "Jesus Camp," here:
More straw men...how cute. As we all know that members of this "Jesus Camp" have carried out major attacks all over the world. Perhaps another thread should be started to discuss the horrid acts of violence carried out by these "Jesus camp" followers.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
For those members who want to truly learn, be objective, and gain an insight into the fanaticism of the other side, kindly view the videos I posted titled: "Jesus Camp," here:
So you take anti-abortion and anti same sex marriages attitudes as fanaticism?
Im really suprised.
BTW the "Jesus Camp" document was made by people who think that their churchgoing neighbours are more dangerous for USA society than radical jihadists who plan bomb attacks.
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
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I agree with it in the sense that greater communication is needed (and that's an understatement). More internal policing is needed within the Muslim community, as well as, in the first place, clarification of Islamic teachings. There also needs to be more communication between Muslims and non-Muslims, with the former initiating such dialogues more often.
It's like arguing with a brick wall.
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