During the last twelve months, there were three beliefs (or should I say myths) that I had about Britain, which have been shattered. I will attempt to elaborate on each of the three myths in turn and describe how they were shattered for me.
(i) Torture does not exist in Britain
Prior to December 2003, I admit that I had a positive opinion about British Police. Since I had never been arrested before, my only experiences with the police were limited to asking directions from a polite ‘bobby’ or watching eloquent Police spokespersons on the TV. I knew that white Police officers in the US, South Africa, etc. regularly assault coloured people, including Muslims. However, I was under the impression that Britain has a whole different ethos based on human rights, etc. and these things just do not happen here. How stupid and naïve I was.
When, on that early morning on 02 December 2003, I heard my front door smashed open and saw several huge Police officers, wearing enough pads to put a cricketer to shame, coming upstairs, I was unsettled but had a good idea of what was to follow. I thought that a senior officer would ask to search my house, showing me a warrant, or in the worst case arrest me. Suddenly, I heard the first “F-word”, directed at me and I was shocked, thinking, “Police officers don’t swear on duty?” I had obviously not lived in Britain long enough. Then two of these beasts grabbed me and smashed my head into the bedroom window, shattering the glass and along with it, the myth that torture does not exist in Britain. Even then, I thought that some over-zealous racist Police officers just wanted to rough me up until the senior officer arrived. Little did I know that he was already there.
Then I was thrown face-down onto the floor and punched repeatedly by several policemen. One of the perverts reached down and tugged at my genitals. By then, I was paralysed; more with shock and disbelief than with pain. I was thinking to myself, “What is happening? These are Police officers? These are Anti-Terrorist Branch detectives? They are not supposed to be hitting me like this?” I really was a naïve, ignorant idiot. A naïve, ignorant, so-called ‘British Muslim’.
The next half-an-hour is history, which I have already recounted many times so I will not repeat it here. I can try to be macho and say that I handled the torture and pain. Or I can be a human being and say that they were the worst 30 minutes of my life, every minute of which was like a lifetime. The colour photographs of my injuries speak louder than any expert medical report or waffle from some articulate Home Office spokeswoman.
Torture does exist in Britain. The only difference between the torture in Britain and that, in say the US, is that ‘human rights’ groups are not brave enough to admit it.
(ii) Britain does not lock people up without good reason
Whilst I have always been sceptical of the actions of the US law enforcement authorities, I used to respect the professionalism of the British law enforcement authorities. I have to admit, that when I saw dozens of Muslims (mainly North-Africans) being rounded up in Britain post 9/11, I would always think that there must have been good reasons to lock these people up. I would say to myself, “The British authorities don’t lock people up for nothing. There is no smoke without fire. Maybe these people did have explosives, terrorist plans and maps in their possession?” Unlike countries such as France and the US, notorious for locking up anything with a beard and two legs, I used to think that the British are more professional: they pick the needle from the haystack rather than the whole haystack itself. How ignorant I was.
And then my own door was kicked down in December 2003, my houses ransacked and I saw for myself what seemed to be the basis of my arrest. For seven days, I was not questioned about any terrorist attacks, suicide bombers and explosives, but about my political views and opinions. My fingerprints, DNA and hair samples were sent to several countries around the world, including the US. Then I was released without charge. With a gift for my inconvenience: 50 injuries including blood in my ears and urine. How thoughtful of the Anti-Terrorist Branch.
I was re-arrested in August 2004 because I had to be silenced once and for all. After all, it doesn’t help the Government’s scaremongering ‘Anti-Terror’ agenda to have some little Paki going round whinging and whining to everyone about how he was tortured by the Anti-Terrorist Branch: one of the ‘elite’ Police departments in the country. I mean, talk of British detectives making fun of the Muslim prayer and throwing the Quran onto the floor doesn’t really go down too well in the conservative Arab world, especially when there are hearts and minds (and lucrative business contracts) to be won.
Having seen the ‘evidence’ upon which my re-arrest is based, I sometimes wonder whether it is a dream or reality. Am I in prison because of my father’s 1973 tourist brochure of the Empire State Building?
Britain does lock people up without good reason. I didn’t use to believe that myself until it happened to me. And during these last few months, I have met several others who have been locked up without good reason.
(iii) Formal written complaints achieve results in Britain
I had always been an admirer of Britain’s formal written complaints system: customer service, statutory rights, Ombudsmans, etc. Formal written complaints had always achieved results for me, whether Sainsbury’s reimbursing me for bitter-tasting Spanish strawberries or the Council cancelling an unjust parking ticket.
However, when it came to something a little more significant than strawberries and parking tickets, namely beating and torturing an unarmed man almost to death, I thought that this formal written complaints system would finally bear fruits when I needed it most. We made complaints to the Police, the ‘Independent’ (or should I say dependent?) Police Complaints Commission, the General Medical Council and the Home Office, to name but a few.
A year down the line, I am sitting in a 5m x 2m prison cell whilst Police have determined that their officers are innocent (surprise, surprise), the Crown Prosecution Service has said that there is ‘insufficient evidence’ to prosecute any Police officers, the ‘Independent’ Police Complaints Commission has sided with the police, the General Medical Council has not even started an investigation into the misconduct of the Police doctors who examined me, and the Home Office ‘refuses to comment’, as always.
Tomorrow it will be your turn and the turn of your children. If you decide to protest against unjust extradition and internment laws, then do it for the sake of your children, not for the sake of Babar Ahmad. When that time comes, Babar Ahmad could be having his face smeared by the menstrual blood of an American prostitute in Guantanamo Bay. Babar Ahmad could be dead. But at least you can’t say that he didn’t warn you. Next time you kiss or hug your child, look at his or her face and imagine that face being punched and kicked by a 7 foot Anti-Terrorist Branch Police officer. Next time you tell your MP that you won’t vote for them until they oppose these unjust extradition and internment laws, think about that face. That face is what you should campaign for. And that face is what is at stake if you choose to remain silent.
I read with interest the Guardian’s Special Report on British Muslims (Young, British and Muslim, 30th November 2004) and felt pity at these young, naïve, second-generation British Muslim professionals, going on about how they feel they are an equal part of today’s Britain. Poor souls, I thought. I used to be like you once upon a time.
You may not agree with what I have written. You may think that I have made far-fetched assumptions. You may believe that I am living in ‘cloud cuckoo land’. But at least you have to admit that I have seen from my clouds what you have not seen.
Prior to December 2003, I admit that I had a positive opinion about British Police.
Which is hard to reconcile with his previous neo-Khariji political beliefs. I assume that he does not mean this.
When, on that early morning on 02 December 2003, I heard my front door smashed open and saw several huge Police officers, wearing enough pads to put a cricketer to shame, coming upstairs, I was unsettled but had a good idea of what was to follow. I thought that a senior officer would ask to search my house, showing me a warrant, or in the worst case arrest me.
Obviously the law has to deal with potential suicide bombers a little differently.
Then two of these beasts grabbed me and smashed my head into the bedroom window, shattering the glass and along with it, the myth that torture does not exist in Britain.
I see no signs of torture. I see policeman attempting to immobilise a potential suicide bomber or the like as quickly as possible. In the circumstances this looks like reasonable force to me.
Then I was thrown face-down onto the floor and punched repeatedly by several policemen. One of the perverts reached down and tugged at my genitals.
Tugged? Weird. Perhaps they were searching him for a bomb belt and he misunderstood?
The next half-an-hour is history, which I have already recounted many times so I will not repeat it here. I can try to be macho and say that I handled the torture and pain. Or I can be a human being and say that they were the worst 30 minutes of my life, every minute of which was like a lifetime. The colour photographs of my injuries speak louder than any expert medical report or waffle from some articulate Home Office spokeswoman.
And assault which did not break any bones or inflict any permanent damage from what I can see. Would that be right? A pity he does not go into details because then we could see if it was justified or not.
I have to admit, that when I saw dozens of Muslims (mainly North-Africans) being rounded up in Britain post 9/11, I would always think that there must have been good reasons to lock these people up.
Well I'll give him the benefit of the doubt although I fail to see how he can reconcile this with his alleged practices.
I was re-arrested in August 2004 because I had to be silenced once and for all. After all, it doesn’t help the Government’s scaremongering ‘Anti-Terror’ agenda to have some little Paki going round whinging and whining to everyone about how he was tortured by the Anti-Terrorist Branch: one of the ‘elite’ Police departments in the country.
Again this simply proves he is out to make propaganda and not talk sensibly about what happened. He was not arrested to silence him or because he was "some little Paki" but because he is wanted in the US on terrorism-related charges.
Having seen the ‘evidence’ upon which my re-arrest is based, I sometimes wonder whether it is a dream or reality. Am I in prison because of my father’s 1973 tourist brochure of the Empire State Building?
Again he is just lying about the reasons for the charges against him.
Britain does lock people up without good reason. I didn’t use to believe that myself until it happened to me. And during these last few months, I have met several others who have been locked up without good reason.
If there is not a good reason here it is hard to think of a good reason.
Tomorrow it will be your turn and the turn of your children. If you decide to protest against unjust extradition and internment laws, then do it for the sake of your children, not for the sake of Babar Ahmad.
Actually I am more likely to be killed by a suicide bomber or by have my throat cut. Frankly I find it hard to muster a great deal of sympathy. Yes he has been roughed up by the police. Yes it is terrible he is being extradited on somewhat nebulous charges. But people are blowing themselves up in London and Madrid. Something has to be done. This is something. It may not be the best thing but if not this what?
Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
I wonder, has your partner ever had a miscarriage? Do you know how horrible that feels? What if it happened as a direct result of someone else? How would that make you feel? But i doubt that has ever happened to you. Well, if it happened to you, you would be speaking differently. But then again, you're not Muslim are you? Are you a little tanned? They might think you're an arab, these policemen aren't very bright you see. They probably thought that Brazilian was an arab. Hmm, do you have a little facial hair? That won't help either. Do they have the shoot-to-kill policy where you live? Who knows, maybe it could be your children who face this tomorrow.
I'm sorry you are so blinded. Please open your eyes. And don't be so quick to assume he is lying and spreading propaganda.
Oh, and what pictures have you googled anyway?
I wonder, has your partner ever had a miscarriage? Do you know how horrible that feels? What if it happened as a direct result of someone else? How would that make you feel? But i doubt that has ever happened to you. Well, if it happened to you, you would be speaking differently. But then again, you're not Muslim are you? Are you a little tanned? They might think you're an arab, these policemen aren't very bright you see. They probably thought that Brazilian was an arab. Hmm, do you have a little facial hair? That won't help either. Do they have the shoot-to-kill policy where you live? Who knows, maybe it could be your children who face this tomorrow.
I'm sorry you are so blinded. Please open your eyes. And don't be so quick to assume he is lying and spreading propaganda.
Oh, and what pictures have you googled anyway?
Miscarriages are not the fault of the police, nor are they predictable or avoidable. They are in God's hands. God knows best.
I might be a little tanned and I might pass for an Arab if I stood in the sun for a while. You ought to see my cousin who has a big beard and a shaven head! So far the British police have killed one person. By mistake. Who they probably did think was an Arab. Suicide bombers have killed, what?, 72? I think I know where the real risk lies. You might feel less safe with the police but I think there are people from the Muslim community out there who want to kill me. They have tried. The chances of me being killed by a policeman are, I think, smaller and more justifiable than the chances of me being killed by a suicide bomber.
Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
Oh my God, PEOPLE HAVE TRIED TO KILL YOU? You must be like part of the mafia or something.
Anyway, you may be more safe... but i'm not. I mean, i wonder what the police would do if they kicked down my door. I'm just a 17 year old girl (nomatter how hard core you think I am). And this quite frightens me.
And is your cousin Muslim? Coz he sounds way cool.
Oh my God, PEOPLE HAVE TRIED TO KILL YOU? You must be like part of the mafia or something.
Well not me personally. Just me in general.
Anyway, you may be more safe... but i'm not. I mean, i wonder what the police would do if they kicked down my door. I'm just a 17 year old girl (nomatter how hard core you think I am). And this quite frightens me.
And is your cousin Muslim? Coz he sounds way cool.
No I am afraid not. He gets a rough time at airports though. The score is still about 72 terrorist victims to 1 dead Brazilian and 1 Muslim guy roughed up by the Counter-Terrorist Squad. I think I know who is the more dangerous.
Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
Ya Muslimeen
Ya Mu’meneen
Open up your eyes
Aim for the ultimate prize
Which is paradise
Allah’s laws
By definition has no flaw
So why do we pause?
Tell me what’s the cause
Hold your applause
Takbir!!!!!
Allahu Akbar
jzk sis.
Ok then. I mean, you're not going to have someone shove tubes down your nose and mouth just because you want to have some rights. It doesn't really concern you does it? Like Babar Ahmad said, you won't have some prostitute smearing menstrual blood on your face. I'm sorry i bothered you with such meagre issues.
-Peace
Ok then. I mean, you're not going to have someone shove tubes down your nose and mouth just because you want to have some rights.
Well no, chances are pretty low. I may have someone slowly and incompetently hack my head off though. Or I may be blown up on a bus. Or something even worse. I measure up the risks and consequences: chance of having tubes up my nose? (low), consequences? (embarrassing but not life-threatening). Chance of having my head hacked off slowly and incompetently? (low, but higher than the above), consequences? (death in a few minutes). I think I'll go with the terrorist squad. You may not feel they are there to protect you, but I think they are there to protect me.
It doesn't really concern you does it? Like Babar Ahmad said, you won't have some prostitute smearing menstrual blood on your face. I'm sorry i bothered you with such meagre issues.
As compared to having my head hacked off? I think I could live with some red ink pretending to be menstrual blood. May I ask, is it the neglible risk that a misguided Brother will hack your head off that makes you so utterly indifferent to the risks the rest of us run or is it something else?
The score card remains: the police have killed one and beaten up one more. The terrorists have killed fifty-six people, sorry fewer than I thought, and injured about 700. Let's ask Mr Ahmad if he would prefer to be roughed up or have a bomb severe both his legs at the thigh.
Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
Ok. Fair enough, look after number one. The government is trying to confuse us though. The war in Iraq is going to make us safer, but watch out for the terrorists who are hiding behind every bush and trying to saw your head off. And exactly how may I ask will your head be sawn off? You're living in the West I presume. And I think the chances of me havung my head hacked off is next to nil. So we're supposed to feel safer, but also we should look out for the terrorists hiding behind every corner. Yes, the police should definetly be given more power. After all, Osama bin Laden could be hiding under your bed. Woooh.... scary!
Not only me but all those I know and love. And society as a whole. Which is the greatest danger to Britain - some of your (misguided) Brothers or those policemen? I know the answer to that.
The government is trying to confuse us though. The war in Iraq is going to make us safer, but watch out for the terrorists who are hiding behind every bush and trying to saw your head off. And exactly how may I ask will your head be sawn off? You're living in the West I presume.
Who knows if the war in Iraq will make us safer, but something has to be done. This is something. If not this, what? Are you recommending complete inactivity? I think I run a real risk of having my head cut off. In the West, in parts of Asia, or when I go home. In every place I think there are groups of people who would like to cut off my head. People around here have said as much. What is to be done about that? Should I go a sheep to the slaughter?
And I think the chances of me havung my head hacked off is next to nil.
I agree. They are not after you.
So we're supposed to feel safer, but also we should look out for the terrorists hiding behind every corner. Yes, the police should definetly be given more power. After all, Osama bin Laden could be hiding under your bed. Woooh.... scary!
Again it is easy for you to make fun. They are not after you. They are after me. The scorecard remains 1 dead and 1 injured by the police, 56 dead and 700 wounded by the terrorists in London alone. Kafirs with missing legs and dead loved ones may have more of an impact on me than on you but I would hope not.
Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
I don't want any innocent kaafir to get harmed. And i'm not making fun, this how people make it seem. But you are so ready to believe what the media tells you, this is where we differ. And is probably the reason we don't see eye to eye on alot of things.
-Peace
I don't want any innocent kaafir to get harmed. And i'm not making fun, this how people make it seem. But you are so ready to believe what the media tells you, this is where we differ. And is probably the reason we don't see eye to eye on alot of things.
I have never even begun to think you did want them to be harmed. But you would have to agree that all your policy recommendations would do nothing to stop them being harmed and a great deal to encourage more of them to be harmed. After all, we can't arrested suspected terrorists, we can't deport them, we can't make it illegal to encourage them, we can't extradite them. It sounds as if you want us to put our heads on the chopping block and wait. As I have said before, this may not be the best policy, it may not even be a good policy, but it is a policy and something needs to be done. If not this, what? What would you do about someone like Mr Ahmad who seems to drum up support for what the West calls, with reason, terrorism? Give him an OBE?
I am fairly reasonable on the media front. But I have seen the bomb sites and damage. I do believe that 56 people, innocent people, are dead and over 700 wounded. I do believe that the police murdered a Brazilian by mistake. I do not care if Mr Ahmad got roughed up to be honest. I suspect he is guilty, but I am willing to run that risk. As far as I can see, the difference between us is I think something ought to be done to stop terrorists killing people. You think something ought to be done to stop Israelis killing people.
Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
As far as I can see, the difference between us is I think something ought to be done to stop terrorists killing people. You think something ought to be done to stop Israelis killing people.
well if you accepted that israelis are terrorists then we'd have the same views..?
With due respect, i know how u feel about possibly being a victim of any suicide bombers or any terrorists! Me too! And I also know how does it feels like if I'm going to be manhandled by the police as in the case of Babar Ahmad. It's not so difficult to feel how they feels, just pretend that you are facing the same predicament. As far as your statistics goes, feel free to tell your rhetoric to the family of De Menezes, the brazilian shot dead in the head just bcoz some police feels that he is a potential `threat' to the society. I do believe that they will staring with disbelief or perhaps in total rage on your logical statistical conclusions!
That's your problem dude! In one hand you could actually feel the potential pain of being a victim of the suicide bomber (or terrorists), and in the other hand, u could not even grasps the meaning of the potential pain of merely being a suspect of the police force through interrogation, physical and psychological assault.
Where is the morality of accusing and treating somebody as being guilty, just through mere suspicion only? If you so happened to be one of the victim, would u presents flowers and accolades to the police force for `doing up' their job? Would you?
Al-Asr (103.001-003) By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
Verily Man is in loss,
Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds,
and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth,
and of Patience and Constancy.
He accepts the Israeli government is a terrorist regime sis, or at least that's what I think he told me a while ago.
Well as for you HeiGou, i never said nothing should be done. If he actually was supporting 'terrorists' (which I don't believe he was.... which is why this makes me so UPSET), then... wait I don't even agree with the terminology the West use. 'enemy combatant', 'terrorists', 'moderates', 'extraordinary rendition'. These are all terms that narrow people's thoughts. But getting back on topic, if someone was caught trying to blow up Oxford Street, trust me, i wouldn't say anything if you locked them up and threw away the key. I will never accept the amount of power the police have been given with these new anti-terror laws. You speak of protecting kaafirs, what about us Muslims? Aren't we human too?
Not to take sides or anything, but exactly when did this thread become 'Interrogate Hei Gou'?
I agree that something must be done to prevent terrorism. I also think that great care must be taken, so that things are not rushed into, and so that there is not a repeat of the Demenezes cock-up. I was really angry at the police then, and am still angry when people say 'But he could have been a terrorist' - the fact remains, he was not. He was an illegal immigrant, yes, but Britain doesn't have a shoot-to-kill policy for those people, does it?
I'm not saying do nothing though. I'm saying it's bad in any criminal investigation when innocent people get locked up, just as it's bad in war when civilians are killed.
Note the preceding sentence was drafted in extremely general terms, so any interpretations that members have will be simply a reflection of their own psyche.
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