Re: Indo-US deal to control China? What do you think?
I would say that both India and the U.S. are a little concerned about the economic powerhouse growing in China. However, I don't think China poses a threat militarily to either India or the U.S. The concern is more about economics and the future of trade than any military concern. Of course China has a growing military, but they are still well behind the military capability of the U.S.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Re: Indo-US deal to control China? What do you think?
The current trend today with China appears to be economic dominence. With it's population being nearly 1/3 of the worlds population China can raise a tremenous amount of money with reasonably low taxation of the people.
China and India both are competing for a foot hold in the world's economies. Both have tremendous potential for internal and external growth and both are key targets for production bases by multi-national corporations.
The sabre rattling of today seems more of an advertisement for each to show they have the strength to stand up under adverse conditions. Perhaps not in our lifetimes, but it does seem that the center of wealth is shifting from the west to either China or India.
Re: Indo-US deal to control China? What do you think?
format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
15/17th centuries were the Ottoman centuries
18/19th centuries were the British centuries
the American Century is coming to an end
this century is the Chinese century
That might be a little premature. The Chinese have plenty of problems of their own. Yes, the Chinese are a growing industrializing nation, but so is India. However, the U.S. and the U.K, plus a few others, are already well past the industrializing phase of civilization. China has had alot of success because they didn't make the mistake that Russia made, which was a quick almost overnight transition to a free-market economy. China had a more gradual transition in their economic policies. This has helped them to fend off the troubles that have plagued the Russian economy. Overall though, China depends upon U.S. economic strength. Without the U.S. as a trading partner, China would be out billions of dollars....and even more Yen.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Re: Indo-US deal to control China? What do you think?
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
That might be a little premature. The Chinese have plenty of problems of their own. Yes, the Chinese are a growing industrializing nation, but so is India. However, the U.S. and the U.K, plus a few others, are already well past the industrializing phase of civilization. China has had alot of success because they didn't make the mistake that Russia made, which was a quick almost overnight transition to a free-market economy. China had a more gradual transition in their economic policies. This has helped them to fend off the troubles that have plagued the Russian economy. Overall though, China depends upon U.S. economic strength. Without the U.S. as a trading partner, China would be out billions of dollars....and even more Yen.
yes that's true but with the US the 20th century didn't become the American Century untill after WWII and that was 1945/present
so china still has time to do something about it's weakpoints
by 2050 according to experts it will have surpassed Japan, Germany and other major players ( the whole G7) and probably the US
so this century will either be known as the chinese century or the ''Asian'' century (depends on India's progress)
The point I'm trying to make, is that China is a growing economic power....the U.S. is already the largest economic power. China growing in strength is worthy of attention, but that is only because the U.S. really doesn't have any room to grow without military conquest. Since the U.S. isn't in the business of imperialism, any nation that appears to be growing in strength will be deemed more important than the nation already at the top. Hopefully you understand why I'm trying to say. China is joining the world free market system. That doesn't mean that the U.S. is somehow declining. China is a growing economic force....the U.S. is already an economic force.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Re: Indo-US deal to control China? What do you think?
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
The point I'm trying to make, is that China is a growing economic power....the U.S. is already the largest economic power. China growing in strength is worthy of attention, but that is only because the U.S. really doesn't have any room to grow without military conquest. Since the U.S. isn't in the business of imperialism, any nation that appears to be growing in strength will be deemed more important than the nation already at the top. Hopefully you understand why I'm trying to say. China is joining the world free market system. That doesn't mean that the U.S. is somehow declining. China is a growing economic force....the U.S. is already an economic force.
i get your point and it's true alot of today's Chinamania is based on the Underdog factor
but US trade deficit is growing at a record rate if this continues the US Dollar will decrease in value and with it's military adventures wich cost hundreds of billions of dollars you never know what can happen in the future another great depression could be around the corner
but then again China's foreign exchange reserves are somewhere around the 1 trillion today and majority being in the US it would also have a negative effect on them
before the 1930's Brittian was one of if not ''the'' richest nation on this planet
one war changed all of this..
Ps what's your opinion on China's estimated statistics of 2050 by experts?
Re: Indo-US deal to control China? What do you think?
format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
i get your point and it's true alot of today's Chinamania is based on the Underdog factor
but US trade deficit is growing at a record rate if this continues the US Dollar will decrease in value and with it's military adventures wich cost hundreds of billions of dollars you never know what can happen in the future another great depression could be around the corner
but then again China's foreign exchange reserves are somewhere around the 1 trillion today and majority being in the US it would also have a negative effect on them
before the 1930's Brittian was one of if not ''the'' richest nation on this planet
one war changed all of this..
Ps what's your opinion on China's estimated statistics of 2050 by experts?
You must consider the nature of Great Britain's wealth pre-1930. Their wealth was based on colonialism, not free market trade. When the imperial nature of Britain began to decline, their wealth naturally declined. The U.S. has never been in the business of world colonialism. The wealth of the U.S is based purely in trade and innovation. Yes, Great Britain started the industrial revolution, but their wealth was garnered from exploiting the resources of other nations.
As for the estimated statistics for China in 2050. You can imagine the wealth China can sustain taxing millions of peasants. That also brings about its own set of problems. China won't get away with devaluing their currency for much longer, which they are obviously doing now. That will balance the trade-deficit with the United States. Look at the trouble Japan has had economically over the past 20 years. Sometimes fast growth can backfire. Ask any economist. Inflation is a major concern when an economy grows too fast. The dollar is weakening right now, but when China has to compete with the world market on an equal playing field, they will have to deal with the same problems all industrialized economies face.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
I am going away from Nuke deal in this post, but ....
Anyway, The main advantage India has over China is the English language. The Bangladeshis are still complaining about French colonisation and would have preffered British rule.
China has the biggest advantage in the world-- People power. The cheap labour costs are trying to bring the business world of other countries down. Majority of Indian markets have banned Chineseproducts coz there will be no more sales for other brands.
China can mass produce stuff at a rate cheaper rate than other parts of the world and has a good infrastructure, much better than India's, so in future China may become the major way to outsource.
Re: Indo-US deal to control China? What do you think?
I think the second half of the next century will indeed be one in which China will start playing a dominant role. But I more or less agree with Keltoi on this, unlike the British or Ottoman hegemony, American absolute power is unlikely to decline, but rather it's relative power will as others get richer. There will be no collapse, like the British Empire or the Ottoman Empire collapsed and splintered. America will remain rich and China will gain the importance it really deserves.
I noticed something else that was interesting about China though. Modern Chinese city life resembles that in the West very much. I mean, to put it crudely, it appears materialistic, individualistic and pretty much void of spirituality and religion. IMHO this means that what is nowadays perceived as Western culture isn't really Western, or based on the Christian heritage, but rather a result of economic prosperity, ie. modernity. This is a positive development, since I believe it will be more likely that the West and the East will not have this huge cultural barrier that separates them. It will make it easier to work together and peacefully coexist in the future.
Re: Indo-US deal to control China? What do you think?
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
I think the second half of the next century will indeed be one in which China will start playing a dominant role. But I more or less agree with Keltoi on this, unlike the British or Ottoman hegemony, American absolute power is unlikely to decline, but rather it's relative power will as others get richer. There will be no collapse, like the British Empire or the Ottoman Empire collapsed and splintered. America will remain rich and China will gain the importance it really deserves.
I noticed something else that was interesting about China though. Modern Chinese city life resembles that in the West very much. I mean, to put it crudely, it appears materialistic, individualistic and pretty much void of spirituality and religion. IMHO this means that what is nowadays perceived as Western culture isn't really Western, or based on the Christian heritage, but rather a result of economic prosperity, ie. modernity. This is a positive development, since I believe it will be more likely that the West and the East will not have this huge cultural barrier that separates them. It will make it easier to work together and peacefully coexist in the future.
I do agree with you. But, that does not mean I like it. I do see a time when most of the world will be economicaly equal. I see this as going to bring an end to the wide diversity of cultures we now enjoy. It is also going to bring the spread of modernization, which in a physical sense that is good,but it is bad without control, it results in decline of moral and aesthetic values. It does not have to be that way, but history tends to show that most people will place physical comfort and pleasure above all else.
In todays world this looks like a Western Import. But, that is far from the truth. It is the result of people being able to rapidly achieve physical comfort with little perceived need to rely on the spiritual values of life.
The conflict between China and India is going to be over which country is the quickest to develope low cost industrialization, and world marketing skills. At the moment I believe China is well in the lead in those areas and will become the Industrial giant with India being a back up source of cheap labor. As the average income in China grows the more India will be providing cheap labor.
For the sake of world stability I believe it is best for China to become the new center of economics and industrialization. China is probably the country that is least likely to be met with aggresion by any nation, unless they were to be the aggressors. Economic growth would be an incentive for that not to risk their life styles for aggressive purposes, unless they make the error of trying to be the world's police force.
Pakastan is another country that is not out of the running. But at the moment I do not see them as soon becoming a contender, unless they form a strong alliance with Saudi Arabia, Saudi putting up the working capital and Pakastan putting up the man power. With that combination Pakistan could become a leading country.
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