اللة the name of

[omarstfollower]

When was the name اللة given to Muhammad as the name of "the God"?

Was given or was just presumed by the Qur'an?

[Abz2000]

The term has existed in many variations of the semitic tongue, in Arabic however, the distinction between ilah And Allah is clear,
aramaic and hebrew appear to have used El to refer to the divine, and Eli to refer to the divine in personal context, As in Allah, ilah, ilahi. so basically the contrast is made between the terms God and "god" and "my god".

So when we say Allah, we mean "the one and only Great God".
in Islam it is more a quality than a noun. since it is backed up by many descriptions and attributes.

you are aware that the bible records that when God spoke to Abraham pbuh He was not known by the term "Yahweh" but "Almighty God".
And that when Moses asked God whom he should say sent him, he was told : I AM THAT I AM.
the words i presume were EHYE ASHER EHYE? And not yahweh, and God knows best.

Those who claimed to be followers of Jesus (especially the Arab ones) resorted to calling Him Ar-Rahmaan (the Graceful/Merciful),
and God replies:

Chapter Name:Al-Isra Verse No:110

0قُلِ ادْعُواْ اللّهَ أَوِ ادْعُواْ الرَّحْمَـنَ أَيًّا مَّا تَدْعُواْ فَلَهُ الأَسْمَاء الْحُسْنَى وَلاَ تَجْهَرْ بِصَلاَتِكَ وَلاَ تُخَافِتْ بِهَا وَابْتَغ
بَيْنَ ذَلِكَ سَبِيلاً

{110*017:110*Khan:Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Invoke Allah or invoke the Most Beneficent (Allah), by whatever name you invoke Him (it is the same), for to Him belong the Best Names. And offer your Salat (prayer) neither aloud nor in a low voice, but follow a way between.

017:110*Maulana:Say: Call on Allah or call on the Beneficent. By whatever (name) you call on Him, He has the best names. And utter not thy prayer loudly nor be silent in it, and seek a way between these.

017:110*Pickthal:Say (unto mankind): Cry unto Allah, or cry unto the Beneficent, unto whichsoever ye cry (it is the same). His are the most beautiful names. And thou (Muhammad), be not loud-voiced in thy worship nor yet silent therein, but follow a way between.

017:110*Rashad:Say, "Call Him GOD, or call Him the Most Gracious; whichever name you use, to Him belongs the best names." You shall not utter your Contact Prayers (Salat) too loudly, nor secretly; use a moderate tone.

017:110*Sarwar: (Muhammad), tell them, "It is all the same whether you call Him God or the Beneficent. All the good names belong to Him." (Muhammad), do not be too loud or slow in your prayer. Choose a moderate way of praying.

017:110*Shakir:Say: Call upon Allah or call upon, the Beneficent Allah; whichever you call upon, He has the best names; and do not utter your prayer with a very raised voice nor be silent with regard to it, and seek a way between these.

017:110*Sherali:Say, 'Call upon ALLAH or call upon Al-Rahman, by whichever name you call on HIM, HIS are the most beautiful names.' And utter not thy Prayer aloud, nor utter it too low, but seek a way between.

017:110*Yusufali:Say: "Call upon Allah, or call upon Rahman: by whatever name ye call upon Him, (it is well): for to Him belong the Most Beautiful Names. Neither speak thy Prayer aloud, nor speak it in a low tone, but seek a middle course between."

Therefore the descriptive qualities take precedence over names and the statement I AM THAT I AM makes sense and fits with the unrivalled name for Almighty God (Allah).

it leaves no room for "my milkshake - it's bettr'n yours".

[Abz2000]

also useful to bear in mind that the first verses revealed to the final messenger of God may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, didn't contain the term Allah, but contained descriptions of who He was.
The descriptive verses also left no doubt about the fact that He wasn't one among many when trying to make sense of what had been revealed and Who was revealing to him.
It was so profound and life changing that it drained all his energy (possibly due to the number of psychological conflicts it at first presented given the setting).

The first references included the term "your Master/Lord".
someone else may be able to clarify when Allah used the term Allah.

[Abz2000]

now my turn to ask, where did the writers of this find the word: Allah?

رسالة يوحنا الأولى
from 1 John ch4
5 GNA

أيّها الأحِبّاءُ، لا تُصَدّقوا كُلّ رُوحٍ، بَلِ اَمتَحِنوا الأرواحَ لِتَرَوْا هَلْ هِـيَ مِنَ اللهِ،
لأنّ كثيرًا مِنَ الأنبـياءِ الكَذّابـينَ جاؤُوا إلى العالَمِ. وأنتُم تَعرِفونَ رُوحَ اللهِ بِهذا: كلّ رُوحٍ يَعترِفُ بِـيَسوعَ المَسيحِ أنّهُ جاءَ في الجَسَدِ يكونُ مِنَ اللهِ،
وكُلّ رُوحٍ لا يَعتَرِف بِـيَسوعَ لا يكونُ مِنَ اللهِ
، بَلْ يكونُ روحُ المَسيحِ الدجّالِ الذي سَمِعتُم أنّهُ سيَجيءُ، وهوَ الآنَ في العالَمِ. يا أبنائي، أنتُم مِنَ اللهِ
وغَلَبتُمُ الأنبـياءَ الكَذّابـينَ، لأنّ اللهَ
الذي فيكُم أقوى مِنْ إبليسَ الذي في العالَمِ. هُم يَتكَلّمونَ بِكلامِ العالَمِ، فيَسمَعُ لهُمُ العالَمُ لأنّهُم مِنَ العالَمِ.

[omarstfollower]

Interesting.

If the word Allah was "found" in Christianity then why was Jesus name not taken?

[Abz2000]

it has been used in the Arabic tongue dmba$$
Jesus is not a semitic name, it is a romanized variation.

[omarstfollower]

Well, how about Yeshua?

[Abz2000]

i wasn't there,
i can ask God for you InshaAllah if you don't accept Islam and get a chance.
you can however ask yourself why the hebrew language has variations such as Joshua (yaheshwa) and 'Esau.
now tell me, were the disciples of Jesus Christians or Muslims?

[omarstfollower]

You want to change the topic?

No thanks.

[omarstfollower]

Abz2000 am I right to say that Muhammed first received just the first 5 verses from Surah 96?

[Abz2000]

You want to change the topic?
No thanks.

listen dude, you got a detailed answer on the first "topic" then switched the "topic" to "Jesus".
since have had the decency to somewhat patiently answer your questions, i certainly have a right to expect an answer to my reasonable questions.
even Moses pbuh demanded even chances and absence of falsehood in his encounter with pharaoh.

Abz2000 am I right to say that Muhammed first received just the first 5 verses from Surah 96?

i do believe that to be the case.


now tell me, were the disciples of Jesus Christians or Muslims?

[Abz2000]

here's the correct answer:

The word*muslim*(Arabic:*مسلم‎,*IPA:*[ˈmʊslɪm];*English*/ˈmʌzlɨm/,/ˈmʊzlɨm/,*/ˈmʊslɨm/*or*moslem/ˈmɒzləm/,*/ˈmɒsləm/[13]) is the*participle*of the same verb of which*islām*is the*infinitive, based on the*triliteral*S-L-M*"to be whole, intact".[14][15]
*It is a liturgical phonology that is formed from two components; the pronoun prefix "mu" and the triconsonantal root "slim".[16]*
A female adherent is a*muslima*(Arabic:*مسلمة‎). The plural form in Arabic is*muslimūn*(مسلمون), and its feminine equivalent is*muslimāt*(مسلمات).

the words submission and peace are also from variations of the same root.

The Qur'an describes many*prophetsand messengers as well as their respective followers as Muslim:*Adam,*Noah,*Abraham,*Jacob,*Moses*and*Jesu s*and his*apostles*are all considered to be Muslims in the Qur'an.
The Qur'an states that these men were Muslims because they submitted to God, preached His message and upheld His values, which included praying, charity, fasting and pilgrimage.
Thus, in Surah 3:52 of the Qur'an, Jesus' disciples tell Jesus, "We believe in God; and you be our witness that we are Muslims (wa-shahad be anna muslimūn)."
In Muslim belief, before the Qur'an,*God*had given the*Torah*to*Moses, the*Psalms*to*David*and the*Gospel*to*Jesus, who are all considered important Muslim*prophets.

And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people.
And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Acts 11:26

Am i therefore correct when i say that the terms "Christian" and "church" were terms unrecognized by The Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth?

[sister herb]

Well, how about Yeshua?

Yeshua (ישוע, with vowel pointing יֵשׁוּעַ – yēšūă‘ in Hebrew) was a common alternative form of the name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ ("Yehoshuah" – Joshua) in later books of the Hebrew Bible and among Jews of the Second Temple period. The name corresponds to the Greek spelling Iesous, from which, through the Latin Iesus, comes the English spelling Jesus.

Yup, this I asked from Mr. Google.

[sister herb]

Interesting.

If the word Allah was "found" in Christianity then why was Jesus name not taken?

The word Allah didn´t fond in Christianity - its just an Arabic word means the God like brother Abz2000 tried to explain to you before.

[omarstfollower]

And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 16:18ASV

Not correct.

It's just an association.

[Abz2000]

dude, are you just arguing simply for the sake of argument or are you totally unfamiliar with anything semitic?
church is a totally alien term,
the people of the time wouldn't have had a clue what you were on about.

Church*[Old English*cirice, circe;*Middle English*chereche, chiriche, chirche;*whence*churche, cherche,*etc.: -Greek*Kuriakon...]
Kirk*The Northern English and Scottish form of CHURCH, in all its senses.

In the earlier Greek It was pronounced*"ku-ri-a-kos"*or*"ku-ri-a-kon."*As you can see, this word doesn't even resemble the Greek word*"ecclesia"*whose place it has usurped. The meaning of*"Ku-ri-a-kos"*is understood by its root:*"Ku- ri-os,"*which means*"lord."*Thus,*"kuriakos"*(i.e.,*"church") means*"pertaining to the lord."*It refers to something that pertains to, or belongs to, a lord. The Greek*"kuriakos"*eventually came to be used in Old English form as*"cirice"*(Kee-ree-ke), then*"churche"*(kerke), and eventually*"church"*in its traditional pronunciation. A church, then, is correctly something that*"pertains to, or belongs to, a lord."

Now, as you can see, there is a major problem here. The translators broke the rules in a big way. When they inserted the word*"church"*in the English versions, they were not translating the Greek word*"kuriakos",*as one might expect. Rather, they were substituting an entirely different Greek word. This was not honest! The word*"church"would have been an acceptable translation for the Greek word*"kuriakos."*However, not by the wildest imagination of the most liberal translator can it ever be an acceptable translation for the Greek word*"ecclesia."*Are you following this? Consider it carefully. This truth will answer many questions you've had about churches, and the kingdom.

"Ecclesia"*is an entirely different word with an entirely different meaning than*"kuriakos."*In fact, the Greek word*"kuriakos"*appears in the New Testament only twice. It is found once in I Corinthians 11:20 where it refers to*"the Lord's supper,"*and once again in Revelation 1:10 where it refers to*"the Lord's day."*In both of those cases, it is translated*"the Lord's..."*- not*"church."*This word does not appear again in the New Testament. Nonetheless, this is the unlikely and strange history of the word*"church"*as it came to the English language. Eventually, through the manipulation of organized religion*"church"*came to replace*"ecclesia"*by popular acceptance. Again, we must emphasize the importance of knowing word meanings in order to know the intent of those who wrote the Scriptures.

THE CORRECT MEANING OF "ECCLESIA"

Now, let's look at the word,*"ecclesia". This Greek word appears in the New Testament approximately 115 times. That's just in this one grammatical form. It appears also in other forms. And in every instance, except three, it is wrongly translated as*"church"*in the King James Version. Those three exceptions are found in Acts 19:32, 39, 41. In these instances the translators rendered it*"assembly"*instead of*"church."*But, the Greek word is exactly the same as the other 112 entries where it was changed to*"church"*wrongly.In Acts 19,*"ecclesia"*is a town council: a civil body in Ephesus. Thus, the translators were forced to abandon their fake translation in these three instances. Nonetheless, 112 times they changed it to*"church."*This fact has been covered-up under centuries of misuse and ignorance. The Greek word "ecclesia" is correctly defined as: "The called-out (ones)" [ECC = out; KALEO = call]. Thus, you can see how this word was used to indicate a civil body of select (called, elected) people.According to the Encyclopedia Britannica:In the New Testament, "ecclesia" (signifying convocation) is the only single word used for church.*It (ecclesia) was the name given to the governmental assembly of the city of Athens,*duly convoked (called out) by proper officers and possessing all political power including even juridical functions.Obviously, in Greece an ecclesia had no resemblance to a church. An*"ecclesia"*was a civil assembly in Athens even before the writing of the New Testament. In the Oxford Universal English Dictionary (considered the standard for the English language) the word*"ecclesia"*is listed in its English form as used by our English forefathers. (Nowadays, only forms of the word appear - like,*"ecclesiastical").


http://www.aggressivechristianity.ne...s/ecclesia.htm

The word “church” comes from an old Greek phrase which meant “the Lord’s house”, but then, it is important to find out who used that Greek term, and especially, which “lord” they used it as a reference to. In this study, it will be shown that the word “church” is not a translation of the*NT*Greek noun*ekklêsia, and that it is not connected to the first century believers’ fellowships but refers to something altogether different, something that arose later.This study contains translation-related notes. If you have been subjected to dogmas which claim that some particular bible-version has all things right and has no errors, make sure to read the article*esa032.htm.Some bible-translations do not use the word “church”.

For instance Tyndale in his 1525 translation used it only twice, in both cases as a reference to buildings that were used for idol worship.

Acts 14:13 Then Iupiters Preste which dwelt before their cite brought oxe and garlondes vnto the churche porche and wolde have done sacrifise with the people. (TYN)

Acts 19:37 For ye have brought hyther these me[n] whiche are nether robbers of churches nor yet despisers of youre goddes. (TYN)

Again, in the above-quoted 1525 Tyndale version the word “church” is found only in those two passages, both of which refer to idol temples. – When it comes to the Greek word*ekklêsia, Tyndale translated it as “congregacion”.In the same way, a number of later translations do not contain the word “church” but render*ekklêsiaas “assembly” or “congregation”. – Below, it will be shown what the origin of the noun “church” is and what it actually points to and is a name for.

http://www.biblepages.net/ega061.htm

anyway, that was a secondary term, the subject you evaded was that the term christian or "masiheen" are false innovations, the essential fact is that those who believed in God and His messengers, and accepted all of the messengers, from the time of Adam up until now, are referred to in Arabic as Muslims (wholesome people of fidelity). While those who reject God, attribute partners or offspring to God or seek to make distinctions between the messengers, claiming to believe some and rejecting others, are ungrateful kafirs (infidels).
that's in essense.

[omarstfollower]

Abz2000 you see, I asked a simple question followed by a reasonable one (Jesus). You are the one that wants to debate.

Very interesting what you brought up about the work "church" and "Christian". But semantics it's not enough to fill the gap.

For instance:
If Jesus didn't say "ekklesia" and a word was "replaced". The question now is, what was it?

[omarstfollower]

(ROFL, nice video BTW)

[omarstfollower]

(بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ * خَلَقَ الْإِنْسَانَ مِنْ عَلَقٍ * اقْرَأْ وَرَبُّكَ الْأَكْرَمُ * الَّذِي عَلَّمَ بِالْقَلَمِ * عَلَّمَ الْإِنْسَانَ مَا لَمْ يَعْلَمْ)
[Surat Al-Alaq 1 - 5]

[omarstfollower]

Mistake