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Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

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    Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

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    What Did Jesus Really Say?
    Misha'al Ibn Abdullah al Kadhi


    If we were to ask a random Christian off the street: "What was the religion of Jesus?" They would unhesitantly respond: "Christianity." If we were then to ask: "Did Jesus himself ever use this word? Did he ever call his religion 'Christianity' or call his followers 'Christians'?" If this Christian knows his Bible, he will say, "No."

    "So," we would continue, "once again, what was his religion?" If this Christian knows his Bible he will now respond "Judaism." "That's right!," we would affirm, "Jesus was a Jew! He followed the religion of Moses" (read chapter one). "According to your Bible, Jesus lived and died never having violated a single aspect of the true Jewish religion. He fasted when they fasted. He prayed as they prayed.

    He observed the Sabbath as the Jews did. He never in his life tasted pork. He was circumcised like all faithful Jews, and he repeatedly ordered his followers to keep the commandments of the God 'till heaven and earth pass' (Matthew 5:17-18)." So Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew! He followed the religion of Moses (pbuh).

    The word "Christianity" was not invented till long after the departure of Jesus (pbuh). We have already demonstrated in chapter two how everything from the Catholic encyclopedia, to countless Christian scholars, to Western encyclopedias, in addition to many other Christian sources all confirm that the true founder of "Christianity" was the Jew named "Saul of Tarsus." More popularly known as "Saint Paul." According to the Bible, it was only after Jesus' (pbuh) death that the religion he observed so faithfully was nullified. This was done upon the authority of "Saint Paul" who had never met him in the flesh, and who claimed that he was receiving divine "visions" from Jesus' ghost ordering him to nullify that which Jesus (pbuh) observed throughout his life and commanded his followers to observe "till heaven and earth pass."

    Now, we will ask: "If Jesus was a Jew, then where did 'Judaism' come from?" Once again, this Christian will most likely jump up and say: "From Moses!" "So Moses introduced Judaism?" we would ask. "Of course!" he would reply. We would then ask: "Was prophet Abraham a Jew?" Again, this man would more than likely respond "Of course!" We would now ask "was prophet Adam, the first human, a 'Jew'? "Were all of the prophets of God Jews?" He would not be sure.

    We would respond: "Well then, did Moses ever call his religion 'Judaism'?" Once again, if this person knows their Bible then they will respond: "No." So, we would continue: "Where does the word 'Jew' come from then?" If he does not know, then we would explain that it comes from "Judah." Judah was the son of Jacob (Israel), who was the son of Isaac, who was the son of Abraham (pbuh).

    So, if neither Abraham nor Moses (pbut) introduced "Judaism," and it was named after prophet Abraham's (pbuh) great grandson, then it is only logical to ask: what was prophet Abraham's religion? What was prophet Adam's religion? In general, what was it that all of the prophets from Adam through Jesus (pbut) preached? The Qur'an has the answer, but it needs a little explanation.

    Since we have now found the origins of "Christianity" and "Judaism," it is only fair to do the same with "Islam." "Islam" is an Arabic word which means "Submission to the will of God(alone)." The word "Muslim" is derived from this word. "Muslim" means "one who has submitted to the will of God(alone)."

    "O People of the Scripture! Why do you argue about Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed till after him? Have you then no sense? Verily! you are those who argue about that which you have some knowledge: Why then do you argue concerning that which you have no knowledge? Allah knows and you know not. Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright 'Muslim' (he surrendered to Allah), and he did not worship other than Allah. Verily! those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and this Prophet(Muhammad) and those who believe; and Allah is the Protecting Friend of the believers" The Qur'an, A'al-Umran(3):65-68.

    "Say: 'Truly, my Lord has guided me to straight path, an upright enduring religion, the religion of Abraham, the true belief (i.e. the True Islamic Monotheism— to believe in One God and to worship none but Allah, alone) and he was never amongst those who worshipped others with Allah." The Qur'an, Al-Ana'am(6):161-163

    "Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto Us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob and the sons of Jacob, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the Prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered (literally: "we are Muslims")." The Qur'an, al-Bakarah(2):136
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    Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    The World is three days: As for yesterday, it has vanished, along with all that was in it. As for tomorrow, you may never see it. As for today, it is yours, so work in it.
    - Hassan al-Basri

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:


    "I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."

    ~ 'Abdullāh bin al-Mubārak (rahimahullah)

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    It would seem that Christ could not have been a "Christian" as it refers to followers of Christ and his teachings.

    Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

    You are mistaken that Judaism was "nullified", but rather fulfilled it seems to me.
    Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    Christians worship the same God that was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (and Moses). For this reason, you will find that the Old Testament still forms an important part of Christian sermons. There is no break, just that what was prophesied in the law and the prophets were fulfilled in Jesus and He revealed the truth to us- that we cannot inherit eternal life by our own efforts but only by his blood can we receive remission of sin.Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

    Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

    Now you can see that the sacrifices in the Old Testament could not take away sin, but was pointing forward to Jesus. For that reason,the animals sacrificed could not have any blemish - referring again to Jesus - who was without sin and by shedding of his blood purchased those that will believe in Him.

    That is one aspect that is often overlooked - that the Bible forms a coherent whole. I know that there are ministers that only concentrate on the New Testament. I believe that they miss out on the riches of the Old Testament.

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    format_quote Originally Posted by 00:00 View Post
    What Did Jesus Really Say?
    Misha'al Ibn Abdullah al Kadhi

    Brilliant post Jazaka Allah khyran for sharing...
    Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:


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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    Did God ever called Himself a Muslim?

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    G-d's title is as-Salam (The Peace Guarantor), it is among His Glorious Names... Islam means Submittance to the Guarantor of Peace. Muslim are those who submit themselves to G-d.

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    As-Salaam, He Who Grants Peace

    Linguistically, as-Salam is rooted from the word "s-l-m," which means, free from any flaw, and related to peacefulness and prosperity. As-Salam means, He Who Grants Peace and He Who Tranquilizes.

    The word as-Salam describes that Allah SWT, is the Creator who Possess the Power above all, in the whole Universe, above all the characteristics possessed by individuals and Powerful above all human characteristics as His creatures.

    ”For Allah SWT is the Almighty and He Creates all characteristics, and it is Him who Tranquilizes, and bringing Peace to His creatures."

    Basically, peace and prosperity is a necessity for human. It is a condition which becomes the dream of everyone. Thus, human always trying to find their way to get the peace and prosperity in their life. "For a peaceful life and tranquility, a Muslim should always be close to Allah SWT who possess the peace, tranquility, and the prosperity. The peace that is gained is not only bounded to the peace in the life, but also in the hereafter.

    The way? Through religious disciplines such as the five pillars of Islam such as praying, fasting, tithe, and other sunnah.

    In daily life, the as-Salam characteristic can be applied by a Muslim in their attitude, verbally or non-verbal. "Orally, a Muslim are ordered to greet each other with Salam greeting. Related to this matter, some ulamas said that it is optional but also demanded to greet others, and some claim that it is obligatory. And also those who heard the greeting are obliged to answer the greeting."

    When those who believe in Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) come to you, say: "Salamun 'Alaikum" (peace be on you); your Lord has written Mercy for Himself, so that, if any of you does evil in ignorance, and thereafter repents and does righteous good deeds (by obeying Allah), then surely, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (translation of Surah al-An'am, verse 54)

    While greeting others with Salam, Muslims too are reminded to sincerely and understand that Salam is also a prayer to others. When they greet others with Salam, they are also praying for others. If Salam is offered with full understanding and sincere, it will also giving impacts to those who are greeted. And G-d Will, the prayer will come to life.

    Other than that, the word as-Salam also contains a wisdom that human are created to live in a society. So, the interaction developed should also brings peaceful environment such as good attitude toward neighbors and friends.

    ”If we found bad neighbors, it may be because of two possibilities. They still do not understand the wisdom of Salam (Peace), or they understood it, but they still have no consciousness. The task for a Muslim who already understood the wisdom is to spread their understanding to others and teaching others. The most effective example, is to be the example."

    source from a recoreded speech in written form
    http://keyza19.multiply.com/journal/item/21

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    format_quote Originally Posted by malayloveislam View Post
    G-d's title is as-Salam (The Peace Guarantor), it is among His Glorious Names... Islam means Submittance to the Guarantor of Peace. Muslim are those who submit themselves to G-d.
    That does not quite answer the question, but no problem.

    All I was referring to was that Jesus did not call himself a Christian, but followers of Christ was first called Christians, as indicated earlier.

    Jesus came to explain the spirit of the law and not the outward observance. When they asked Him what the most important commandments were, He indicated that love towards God and our neighbour (and you will know from the parable of the Samaritan who that is) fulfills the law.

    But apart from explaining the deeper meaning of the law, He also paid the price for the sins of those called - thus allowing us in the present to receive His righteousness, and live a life in his peace that is independent of circumstances, and also allows me to love all.

    Thank you in any case for your comment and may you have a great day!

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    format_quote Originally Posted by malayloveislam View Post
    As-Salaam, He Who Grants Peace
    Basically, peace and prosperity is a necessity for human. It is a condition which becomes the dream of everyone. Thus, human always trying to find their way to get the peace and prosperity in their life. "For a peaceful life and tranquility, a Muslim should always be close to Allah SWT who possess the peace, tranquility, and the prosperity.
    source from a recoreded speech in written form
    http://keyza19.multiply.com/journal/item/21
    Malayloveislam, I agree with you that us as (unregenerate) humans want peace and prosperity. That is however not the things we should be striving for? Should it not be to bring honour and glory to our Father in heaven? He gives us His peace and we are not at all concerned with prosperity - that is needs of the "flesh". To live a life close to Him and love Him, and always grow closer to Him should be our desire? In my experience God removes the need for earthly things as they are worthless.

    These changed attitudes does not come by own effort but is granted when we become a "new" person, when we accept Christ (see new birth)

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    format_quote Originally Posted by fromgenesis View Post
    Did God ever called Himself a Muslim?
    God doesn't need to submit to himself, we submit to him (that is what it means to be a Muslim, if you've actually read the above post)..
    only in Christianity does god turn into a human who prays to himself only to forsake himself.. I hope you realize such fairy tales don't hold well with the rest of humanity .. 'least of which the Jews' to which this specific said god was said t be sent!
    15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

    http://bible.cc/matthew/15-24.htm
    Last edited by جوري; 08-04-2009 at 05:19 PM.
    Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye View Post
    God doesn't need to submit to himself, we submit to him (that is what it means to be a Muslim, if you've actually read the above post)..
    only in Christianity does god turn into a human who prays to himself only to forsake himself.. I hope you realize such fairy tales don't hold well with the rest of humanity .. 'least of which the Jews' to which this specific said god was said t be sent!
    15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

    http://bible.cc/matthew/15-24.htm
    That is quite true and obvious - so Jesus would not call himself a Christian as Christians are followers of the Christ.

    You have some facts wrong. You may be familiar with the concept of the Trinity where God is revealed as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Thus Jesus does not pray to himself, but to his Father. I would agree with you that this is a difficult concept as it is totally out of our range of experience.

    You are wrong. From the beginning, Jesus' sacrifice was not intended only for the Jews
    Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

    Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    Yes, Jesus did not personally go to the Gentiles, but brought the Gospel to the Jews - who rejected Him. You will also know that Jesus said the following:
    Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. So although Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, his sacrifice was for people of all nations.

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    format_quote Originally Posted by fromgenesis View Post
    That is quite true and obvious - so Jesus would not call himself a Christian as Christians are followers of the Christ.
    The only problem here is that you take a man for a god, so what he calls or doesn't call himself is already subject to whims as you are unable to differentiate creator from creation!

    You have some facts wrong. You may be familiar with the concept of the Trinity where God is revealed as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Thus Jesus does not pray to himself, but to his Father. I would agree with you that this is a difficult concept as it is totally out of our range of experience.
    God should be a concept understood by all from the simplest Bedouin mind to the most worldly scholar.. To begin with, I have a difficult time (even if I overlook the trinity portion) of God forsaking after giving his word that he wouldn't .. if God can't keep his word to his most precious, why should he to the rest of humanity? plus breaking a few commandments in the process.
    You are wrong. From the beginning, Jesus' sacrifice was not intended only for the Jews
    Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
    So your bible contradicts itself and yet you expect us to hold is as the word of truth? obviously the two quotes are at odds.. and I am not sure whose words should I take? a self-appointed apostle and a menace like Paul or Jesus himself?

    Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
    That is great if God took away the sin of the world by being a lamb, I am sure he wouldn't mind saving those in some remote tribes even if they choose not to believe into the man/god myth.

    Yes, Jesus did not personally go to the Gentiles, but brought the Gospel to the Jews - who rejected Him. You will also know that Jesus said the following:
    Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. So although Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, his sacrifice was for people of all nations.
    See above reply.. It looks monumentally embarrassing these pious forgeries which make your book unable to hold its own against itself let alone other religious doctrines!

    all the best
    Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    Text without context is pretext
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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    I may not be really familiar with Christianity concept but I'm a South East Asian which I'm familiar with Buddhism of Theravada school and Brahman Hinduism. I grow up being taught with our classical texts and although we are already Muslims, but our ancestors were previously Hindu-Buddhists. The concept of a teacher who is a human being respected to the level of god is just familiar here. Also a king worshiped as a god, is just a familiar concept. Native Malay people in my village do have certain celebration like "Puja Guru" means "Worshiping Teachers", which is associating Teachers with G-d, in Shamanistic syncretized with Hindu-Buddhism belief. It is now not being practiced anymore after many people understand that G-d should not be associated with others. He is alone, and the only One.

    As an example, Buddha Gautama is a Guru (Teacher). Buddhists are not worshiping bronze or clay statue, they just respecting Buddha. Buddhists are known as Buddhist from the title of Siddhartha Gautama. Buddha is the incarnation of G-d himself. Siddhartha Gautama Buddha himself is the last incarnation from the previous incarnation of a Hindu legend who is also a god, Sri Krishna Govinda and a white elephant (symbolizing a king). Sri Krishna is the incarnation of Phra Narayanna Vishnu. Vishnu is the Protector together with Brahma, and Shiva. For Buddhist too, Buddha Siddhartha Gautama is known as Sammasambuddha, which in simple word means He who is without the Beginning, and He who is without End. This is just some portion, is it easy to comprehend?

    We Muslim simply revering the Highest G-d and in Arabic it is spelled as A-L-L-H and it means The G-d. It is without any gender marker in the spelling, showing that He is not a creature but a Creator, where His image can't be achieved by human imagination, except that we know about Him through the revelation given to His prophets and messengers that He wants us to know about Him. Those prophets and messengers of G-d are human-being except that they were guided by the revelation and protected by G-d from sinful acts so that they can become the example to other human-being like us
    Last edited by malayloveislam; 08-05-2009 at 06:40 AM.

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    format_quote Originally Posted by fromgenesis View Post
    Malayloveislam, I agree with you that us as (unregenerate) humans want peace and prosperity. That is however not the things we should be striving for? Should it not be to bring honour and glory to our Father in heaven? He gives us His peace and we are not at all concerned with prosperity - that is needs of the "flesh". To live a life close to Him and love Him, and always grow closer to Him should be our desire? In my experience God removes the need for earthly things as they are worthless.

    These changed attitudes does not come by own effort but is granted when we become a "new" person, when we accept Christ (see new birth)
    Agreed...but, the peace that is gained is not only bounded to the peace in the life, but also in the hereafter.

    The kingdom of G-d is not only in the hereafter but it covers all, without any time restriction because G-d is never tied with Time and Space

    We still have to go through this Earth, and it is the bridge connecting us to the hereafter. There is a wisdom in it, Earth is the place of tests but we are still given with guidance through His messengers and revelation as the sign that He never abandon us.

    Best Regard...
    Last edited by malayloveislam; 08-05-2009 at 06:41 AM.

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye View Post

    God should be a concept understood by all from the simplest Bedouin mind to the most worldly scholar..
    That is partly true. Even the smallest child can understand the concept of a loving Father that cares for them. It is however a misconception in my view to think that we will ever on this earth have a grasp of the complete nature of God. That to my mind is somewhat presumptuous and limits God to our limited understanding of all things.
    To begin with, I have a difficult time (even if I overlook the trinity portion) of God forsaking after giving his word that he wouldn't .. if God can't keep his word to his most precious, why should he to the rest of humanity?
    You refer to Jesus' call on the cross? Jesus knew full well what was going to happen - He warned his disciples about that as well. What we see here, is the result of our sins carried by Jesus. Sin separated Jesus from God the Father's presence. My sin and your sin.

    Jesus' death on the cross must have hurt the Father terribly - just as much as Abraham must have hurt when he went to sacrifice his son. But that was a sign of obedience. Abraham did not have to go through, but God did, and He did it for you and me. It is the only way in which we could be reconciled with God - the perfect sacrifice - that lambs and goats could never do.
    That is great if God took away the sin of the world by being a lamb, I am sure he wouldn't mind saving those in some remote tribes even if they choose not to believe into the man/god myth.
    Jesus did not die for just males, or just Jews, but for all people of all races that came to Him.

    The fact that there are many that have not been exposed to your way must also be of concern to you- similarly to me. But let me not be a judge of God's way and his sovereignty. It is a difficult topic and I do not know all the answers. I do however know that I stand guilty before the law and there is no way that I could justify myself before a Holy God and make Him my debtor by arguing my good deeds. I only rely on the blood of Jesus to cleanse me from sin.

    The question of choice is important. If you reject Christ, you cannot be saved because the law will judge you for what you have done. There was no forgiveness of sin.
    Kind regards
    Last edited by fromgenesis; 08-06-2009 at 11:31 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    format_quote Originally Posted by malayloveislam View Post
    Agreed...but, the peace that is gained is not only bounded to the peace in the life, but also in the hereafter.

    The kingdom of G-d is not only in the hereafter but it covers all, without any time restriction because G-d is never tied with Time and Space

    We still have to go through this Earth, and it is the bridge connecting us to the hereafter. There is a wisdom in it, Earth is the place of tests but we are still given with guidance through His messengers and revelation as the sign that He never abandon us.

    Best Regard...
    You are so right. Our life on earth is but a fleeting breath and the glory and peace we now have is nothing in comparison with what lies ahead for those that are found to be worthy.

    It is however important what we do in this life, and as Jesus revealed - it is not a case of outward things but the heart. Thanks for the comment.

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    format_quote Originally Posted by fromgenesis View Post
    That is partly true. Even the smallest child can understand the concept of a loving Father that cares for them. It is however a misconception in my view to think that we will ever on this earth have a grasp of the complete nature of God. That to my mind is somewhat presumptuous and limits God to our limited understanding of all things.You refer to Jesus' call on the cross? Jesus knew full well what was going to happen - He warned his disciples about that as well. What we see here, is the result of our sins carried by Jesus. Sin separated Jesus from God the Father's presence. My sin and your sin.
    I have said nothing about the nature of God, in fact if anyone is about defining the nature of God, it is Christians, and they do so not only be engendering him but giving him male or animal qualities, like lamb or lion or part of a three headed God!

    Jesus' death on the cross must have hurt the Father terribly - just as much as Abraham must have hurt when he went to sacrifice his son. But that was a sign of obedience. Abraham did not have to go through, but God did, and He did it for you and me. It is the only way in which we could be reconciled with God - the perfect sacrifice - that lambs and goats could never do.Jesus did not die for just males, or just Jews, but for all people of all races that came to Him.
    again with God's feelings, and god's forsaking, and God praying and god's weakness and God's this or that.. You are doing exactly what you think others shouldn't do, on top of all it is extremely disrespectful and lacks reverence and it is cockamamie it is almost like you've been rehearsing something very counter intuitive. And again as per your bible Jesus came for one group of people who in fact have rejected him, and now more than ever as the concept you have of God defies all that have been brought since the time of Adam, Enoch, Joseph, Abraham, Job.. all of a sudden a man/god who impregnates women with his person then dies. give me a break!

    The fact that there are many that have not been exposed to your way must also be of concern to you- similarly to me. But let me not be a judge of God's way and his sovereignty. It is a difficult topic and I do not know all the answers. I do however know that I stand guilty before the law and there is no way that I could justify myself before a Holy God and make Him my debtor by arguing my good deeds. I only rely on the blood of Jesus to cleanse me from sin.
    I don't rely on Jesus blood saving me from anything. I rely on the law of Grace and mercy which God assigned to himself.. and no I am not aggrieved by who believes or who doesn't.. Each soul is held in pledge by its own deeds!
    The question of choice is important. If you reject Christ, you cannot be saved because the law will judge you for what you have done. There was no forgiveness of sin.
    Kind regards
    I reject Jesus as a God, I accept him as a prophet of God.. and I'll take my chances than be a part of those led astray!

    all the best
    Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    Text without context is pretext
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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye View Post
    I have said nothing about the nature of God, in fact if anyone is about defining the nature of God, it is Christians, and they do so not only be engendering him but giving him male or animal qualities, like lamb or lion or part of a three headed God!
    In your view of God, is He neither male nor female? Rather more a "it"? I see in your quote that you do refer to "Him"
    And again as per your bible Jesus came for one group of people who in fact have rejected him
    I have already answered this - his message is for the whole world, as is evidenced by so many scriptures.
    I rely on the law of Grace and mercy which God assigned to himself
    You have the law that you must obey - and rely on Him being merciful although you transgress his laws? Where would justice feature? Ignore that altogether? Justice requires that there must be retribution. Your laws show that. You have some of the strictest laws in Muslim countries. Only as deterrent or is there some justice to it?

    In some Christian circles you will find the same - that God is loving, caring and will not punish sin. This is a lie.
    I reject Jesus as a God, I accept him as a prophet of God
    Yes, most people do reject Jesus as God. But let it be a warning that these very words may haunt you. It is not a threat, but the truth as you will on judgement day (or sooner) see this with your own eyes: Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.(see Isaiah 45:23).

    If you want to see your heart, read your responses to me.

    Kind regards.
    Last edited by fromgenesis; 08-07-2009 at 09:16 AM.

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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    format_quote Originally Posted by fromgenesis View Post
    In your view of God, is He neither male nor female? Rather more a "it"?
    You'd have to know something about parsin, syntax and grammar of other languages.
    in Semitic languages there is no such pronoun as 'It'. to use the feminine is to engender, whereas the masculine can be used and not denote gender, or denote male or even female at times. Do visit out Arabic section and familiarize yourself with Arabic grammar!


    I see in your quote that you do refer to "Him" I have already answered this - his message is for the whole world, as is evidenced by so many scriptures. You have the law that you must obey - and rely on Him being merciful although you transgress his laws? Where would justice feature? Ignore that altogether? Justice requires that there must be retribution. Your laws show that. You have some of the strictest laws in Muslim countries. Only as deterrent or is there some justice to it?
    See above about the quote, and I fear nothing you'll pull out of a hat is going to be convincing about the man/god fiasco, I really don't think it will last another century as science advances and the conundrum of the man/god/nunciator impregnater won't be able to hold its weight, although I suspect it never has!

    In some Christian circles you will find the same - that God is loving, caring and will not punish sin. This is a lie.
    you've been lying about God's nature since the beginning, I wouldn't be surprised, either way it is of no concern to me what you consider a lie or truth, so long as you are happy being a christian then it is all that matters.. it has no bearing on the rest of us~!


    Yes, most people do reject Jesus as God. But let it be a warning that these very words may haunt you. It is not a threat, but the truth as you will on judgement day (or sooner) see this with your own eyes: Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.(see Isaiah 45:23).
    I'll consider myself warned and thankfully fled with my life from the darkness that has ensnared many minds.

    The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him "Be": and he was.3:59




    O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih (messiah) Jesus the son of Maryam was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. 4:171


    If you want to see your heart, read your responses to me.
    Kind regards.
    all the best
    Islam is what satisfies both the heart and the mind.. and I thank Allah swt for the gift of Islam and from leading us from the darkness into the light!

    all the best
    Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:


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    Re: Was "Christ" a "Christian"?:

    format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye View Post
    You'd have to know something about parsin, syntax and grammar of other languages.
    in Semitic languages there is no such pronoun as 'It'. to use the feminine is to engender, whereas the masculine can be used and not denote gender, or denote male or even female at times. Do visit out Arabic section and familiarize yourself with Arabic grammar!
    I notice that the mail was written in English.
    See above about the quote, and I fear nothing you'll pull out of a hat is going to be convincing about the man/god fiasco
    Not quite a relevant answer to the issue of justice and a red herring.
    The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him "Be": and he was.3:59
    I am sure this will also be an area of scientific investigation.


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