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the quran has never changed?

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    the quran has never changed?

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    brothers and sisters

    During the time of the messenger prophet Muhammad (saw) the quraish said that the Quran was not the word of Allah (swt) but that of Mohammed's (saw) words or a christian person called jabr. Allah then sent the revelation challenging the qurash to write 10 surahs like the Quran then a revelation after challenging them to write 1 surah like the Quran. They couldnt achieve this even though the shortest surah is only 10 words. This is proof of Quran and Islam.

    After i heard this my belief in Islam increased 99%. But can someone who knows Arabic explain how this is true? My understanding is that you can read and understand the arabic in the Quran but not write a surah like it. if this is true it is a miracle. This is like me being able to read and understand Shakespeare English but not being able to write like it (i know it is possible just using a analogy).

    why isn't all arabic people Muslims then? for example you have a some christian Arabs, have they not heard of this? and do they teach this in the education system in the arab countrys? we could have more practising muslims if only they knew.
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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    i know that people in egypt must learn the qu'ran in school. i have a coptic christian friend from egypt who had to learn the qu'ran as part of his arabic language class.

    When it comes down to it, it varies from person to person. I have met many arabic speakers that think the qu'ran is jsut a book, and nothing more. They do not see it as beautiful or anything like that. One prominent arabic scholar was alrazi.. he was not a muslim and he did not think the qu'ran was beautiful at all. also, there is a lot fos peculation that taha hussein, and arabic poet from egypt in the early 1900's died and atheist.

    but then there are those muslim arabs who DO see the qu'ran as miraculous and beautiful. if you ask any religious muslim about the qu'ran in arabic, they will tell you that it is a beautiful book that no one can ever make.

    so it varies from people to people, group to group. also, if i am not mistaken, in arabic poetry there was this thing that people would challenge others to try and produce it better. it has an arabic name, but i can not remember what it is called. i will ask my neighbor tomorrow

    so yeah.. it varies from person to person!
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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    format_quote Originally Posted by islam19241924 View Post
    brothers and sisters

    During the time of the messenger prophet Muhammad (saw) the quraish said that the Quran was not the word of Allah (swt) but that of Mohammed's (saw) words or a christian person called jabr. Allah then sent the revelation challenging the qurash to write 10 surahs like the Quran then a revelation after challenging them to write 1 surah like the Quran. They couldnt achieve this even though the shortest surah is only 10 words. This is proof of Quran and Islam.

    After i heard this my belief in Islam increased 99%. But can someone who knows Arabic explain how this is true? My understanding is that you can read and understand the arabic in the Quran but not write a surah like it. if this is true it is a miracle. This is like me being able to read and understand Shakespeare English but not being able to write like it (i know it is possible just using a analogy).

    why isn't all arabic people Muslims then? for example you have a some christian Arabs, have they not heard of this? and do they teach this in the education system in the arab countrys? we could have more practising muslims if only they knew.
    Wa Aleyklum salam,

    Someone with more arabic knowledge can give you more detail, but I will say that look at the english language, people, here, are very diverse kids think shakespearen english is rubbish whilst others hold it out to be the peak of english whilst others, like my english teacher, yet say that the King James version of the bible uses the best english.

    You'd have to have rules or evidences from which to go by and argue over I think instead of mere opinions, language is always changing so the lay person will always be subject to the common language on the street.
    the quran has never changed?

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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512 View Post
    i know that people in egypt must learn the qu'ran in school. i have a coptic christian friend from egypt who had to learn the qu'ran as part of his arabic language class.

    When it comes down to it, it varies from person to person. I have met many arabic speakers that think the qu'ran is jsut a book, and nothing more. They do not see it as beautiful or anything like that. One prominent arabic scholar was alrazi.. he was not a muslim and he did not think the qu'ran was beautiful at all. also, there is a lot fos peculation that taha hussein, and arabic poet from egypt in the early 1900's died and atheist.

    but then there are those muslim arabs who DO see the qu'ran as miraculous and beautiful. if you ask any religious muslim about the qu'ran in arabic, they will tell you that it is a beautiful book that no one can ever make.

    so it varies from people to people, group to group. also, if i am not mistaken, in arabic poetry there was this thing that people would challenge others to try and produce it better. it has an arabic name, but i can not remember what it is called. i will ask my neighbor tomorrow

    so yeah.. it varies from person to person!
    I have gone to school in Egypt and Christians AREN'T countenanced to learn the Quran..I know for a fact you are making the above up... I sat in class next to a kid named sami7 who was christian and we had quran class he had bible class, and abla susan came and grabbed him along with the two other christian kids... pls don't count so much that you can just hand out bull and people will believe it.. because many here have gone to school in middle eastern countries and know exactly how the system works...

    if a lie in part then a lie in whole... won't you ever quit?


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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    format_quote Originally Posted by islam19241924 View Post
    brothers and sisters

    During the time of the messenger prophet Muhammad (saw) the quraish said that the Quran was not the word of Allah (swt) but that of Mohammed's (saw) words or a christian person called jabr. Allah then sent the revelation challenging the qurash to write 10 surahs like the Quran then a revelation after challenging them to write 1 surah like the Quran. They couldnt achieve this even though the shortest surah is only 10 words. This is proof of Quran and Islam.

    After i heard this my belief in Islam increased 99%. But can someone who knows Arabic explain how this is true? My understanding is that you can read and understand the arabic in the Quran but not write a surah like it. if this is true it is a miracle. This is like me being able to read and understand Shakespeare English but not being able to write like it (i know it is possible just using a analogy).

    why isn't all arabic people Muslims then? for example you have a some christian Arabs, have they not heard of this? and do they teach this in the education system in the arab countrys? we could have more practising muslims if only they knew.
    Peace Be Upon you,

    Brother, the reason for this is simple. Allah SWT gave us the choice, and all mankind the choice to choose the religion that he wishes. Probably, many Christians know this, and many non-Muslim arabs know this as well, but they would have countless justifications for their own religions as well. As to whether or not the Qu'ran has been changed, there is no doubt that it has not been changed from the time of the prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him). This can be seen in the fact that there is a perfect balance of words in the Qu'ran. And the number of times that each word occurs has its own significance. For instance, the arabic word for day occurs 365 times in the Qu'ran, and the word for month occurs 12 times. Also, thousands of years ago a Greek man called Meton discovered the Metonic cycle, which shows that the earth, moon and sun coincide in their position once every nineteen years. The arabic word for year occurs 19 times in the Qu'ran.

    Jazakalakhair,

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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    format_quote Originally Posted by dauodwa View Post
    For instance, the arabic word for day occurs 365 times in the Qu'ran, and the word for month occurs 12 times. Also, thousands of years ago a Greek man called Meton discovered the Metonic cycle, which shows that the earth, moon and sun coincide in their position once every nineteen years. The arabic word for year occurs 19 times in the Qu'ran.


    Do you have a source for this?
    the quran has never changed?

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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah View Post


    Do you have a source for this?
    Peace Be Upon You,
    Yes, this information and much more can be found in the booklet "The Basis of Muslim Belief" by Abdul-Ahad Omar (Formerly Gary Miller). Also, you could just by a complete index of the Qu'ran and see for yourself.

    Thanks for your response,

    Peace Be Upon You
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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    format_quote Originally Posted by dauodwa View Post
    but they would have countless justifications for their own religions as well.
    That's true. There are so many "miracles" that it is rather impossible to decide whose (if any) are real. That's why I am an agnostic.

    there is no doubt that it has not been changed from the time of the prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him).
    Not necessarily. There's not that much word/letter/etc repetition in the Quran that it couldn't be addded after the Prophet's death. It would have to be done thoroughly but it is possible.
    In my opinion, however, the Quran was not changed after Mohammad's death.
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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    What I find extremely fascinating about the Quran is this.

    ffended:ffended:
    Last edited by Whatsthepoint; 11-25-2007 at 12:44 PM.
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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    what is the point of this Oh plucky one?
    the quran has never changed?

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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint View Post
    What I find extremely fascinating about the Quran is this.

    ffended:ffended:
    Peace Be Upon You,

    I don't think that the arguments there are really logical... it seems as if you could do that with any book as long as your good at maths kay:. In the post before this, you quoted me and mentioned my quote about how people have lots of justifications for their religions. My implication wasn't that these things should be dismissed, it was merely that everyone follows something based on their justifications of it and their belief in it. This is not a reason to be an agnostic, it is an encouragement to learn as much as you can about your beliefs and others beliefs. Having said that, I dont have a problem with your personal inclination. Whatever people believe, we have to respect their opinions, unlike the people on this site:


    http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showt...t=5594&page=15

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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    format_quote Originally Posted by dauodwa View Post
    Peace Be Upon You,

    I don't think that the arguments there are really logical... it seems as if you could do that with any book as long as your good at maths kay:. In the post before this, you quoted me and mentioned my quote about how people have lots of justifications for their religions. My implication wasn't that these things should be dismissed, it was merely that everyone follows something based on their justifications of it and their belief in it. This is not a reason to be an agnostic, it is an encouragement to learn as much as you can about your beliefs and others beliefs. Having said that, I dont have a problem with your personal inclination. Whatever people believe, we have to respect their opinions, unlike the people on this site:


    http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showt...t=5594&page=15

    Peace Be Upon You
    No, I don't think this 19 thing is a coincidence. In my opinion it was planned by a certain literate person...but let's leave it at that.

    You do realize the Landover Baptist Church is a parody?
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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint View Post
    No, I don't think this 19 thing is a coincidence. In my opinion it was planned by a certain literate person...but let's leave it at that.

    You do realize the Landover Baptist Church is a parody?
    Peace Be Upon You,

    Lol. I just realized that today. Yeah, I thought I better check after all that what others had said about it. I new about the founder, but I didnt know that he made this as a political satire. Regardless, it does highlight the threat of fundamentalism. Others should also go to these sites to find out about the Landover parody site:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landover_Baptist_Church
    http://www.hachettebookgroupusa.com/...557/index.html

    And as for the Qu'ran, you are probably right. There are said to be many things that we will never truly know about the Qu'ran and may only be discovered in the distant future if at all. The letters Aleef Laam Meem are a good example. The Yusuf Ali Tafsir talks about these letters at the end of Sura Al Baqara.

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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia View Post
    I have gone to school in Egypt and Christians AREN'T countenanced to learn the Quran..I know for a fact you are making the above up... I sat in class next to a kid named sami7 who was christian and we had quran class he had bible class, and abla susan came and grabbed him along with the two other christian kids... pls don't count so much that you can just hand out bull and people will believe it.. because many here have gone to school in middle eastern countries and know exactly how the system works...

    if a lie in part then a lie in whole... won't you ever quit?


    cheers!
    I did not say there was a religious class he took on islam. I said he did learn the qu'ran though.

    In America, we have a class called "English". In egypt, I guess you guys have a class called "arabic" where you learn arabic. And in that class, you guys learn about the qu'ran.. Just as how in USA 7th grade students in many schools learn about the Bible. Not all, but some.

    Now my friend Emad learned about the qu'ran in his arabic class. If you do not believe me, PM me and I will give you his e-mail and you guys can talk. He is on MSN all the time, and I am sure he would not mind talking with you. And obviously he speaks arabic, which is better! So hit me with a PM if you don't believe me.

    and also, ask for my sources/proof before calling me a liar. I am surprised that an arab called me a liar anyways.. I always thought that was something VERY offensive to call someone in arabic culture.. Unless of course you really dislike me so much!
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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    format_quote Originally Posted by dauodwa View Post
    And the number of times that each word occurs has its own significance. For instance, the arabic word for day occurs 365 times in the Qu'ran, and the word for month occurs 12 times. Also, thousands of years ago a Greek man called Meton discovered the Metonic cycle, which shows that the earth, moon and sun coincide in their position once every nineteen years. The arabic word for year occurs 19 times in the Qu'ran.

    Jazakalakhair,

    Peace Be Upon You
    As for the word "day" being 365 times - You have to exclude endings of words such as "idhin" and "kumu" to come up with 365. But why should they be excluded?! there is no probable reason for that. Not to mention that your calender is 354 days anyways!

    "Month" is used 12 times, that is right.

    "Days" is used 27 times. However, there are 3 duals, so if you add them, you get 30.

    "Man", rajal is used 24 times, as is "imraat" for woman. But then if you count "rejal" and "nisa" you do not get such similarities.

    If anything, someone could have just added it in there. But most likely, it is just coincidence.

    Pepole like yusuef estes have spoken against this "numerical miracle" many times. So has sheikh muhammad al-munajjid.
    http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=697...ng&txt=numeric
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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512 View Post
    I did not say there was a religious class he took on islam. I said he did learn the qu'ran though.
    I am sure he did!

    In America, we have a class called "English". In egypt, I guess you guys have a class called "arabic" where you learn arabic. And in that class, you guys learn about the qu'ran.. Just as how in USA 7th grade students in many schools learn about the Bible. Not all, but some.
    That is funny-- when you go to school in Egypt you indeed take 'qawai3d fi ilogha al3arabya' No Quran is taught there either, anymore than the bible is used to teach English here in the states!
    Now my friend Emad learned about the qu'ran in his arabic class. If you do not believe me, PM me and I will give you his e-mail and you guys can talk. He is on MSN all the time, and I am sure he would not mind talking with you. And obviously he speaks arabic, which is better! So hit me with a PM if you don't believe me.
    I have no interest in tall tales or tall tales by proxy! Frankly you are the company you keep and I have seen how much credibility you have!

    and also, ask for my sources/proof before calling me a liar. I am surprised that an arab called me a liar anyways.. I always thought that was something VERY offensive to call someone in arabic culture.. Unless of course you really dislike me so much!
    Sources and proofs is any member here who has gone to school in the middle east especially in a very secular country like Egypt and knows how the system is run... I call them like I see them frankly I have seen very little credibility on your part thus far, and have no cause to believe that has changed!

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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    Sources and proofs is any member here who has gone to school in the middle east especially in a very secular country like Egypt and knows how the system is run... I call them like I see them frankly I have seen very little credibility on your part thus far, and have no cause to believe that has changed!
    Well, I offered for you to talk to him. You refused. so it is your problem if you do not trust me, because you refuse to see the info.

    And I do not know how you can say egpyt is secular.. Certainly not by my standards.. I mean look at how it is.. people can not even convert to Christianity without having to go to court!! How ridiculous!!
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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512 View Post
    Well, I offered for you to talk to him. You refused. so it is your problem if you do not trust me, because you refuse to see the info.

    And I do not know how you can say egpyt is secular.. Certainly not by my standards.. I mean look at how it is.. people can not even convert to Christianity without having to go to court!! How ridiculous!!
    Rofl.. you must have your screws backwards?.. ask then why good old 'baba shenooda' went on strike with other church members when three nuns decided to become Muslim?..

    Again, You are the company you keep and just the quality and the bull in your posts is enough to give me a good idea of your inner self and those you keep in your company.

    Your standards aren't the measure by which others live their lives... one who has gone from the 'Ghost of the virgin mary over some church in tanta' to an atheist in three weeks or less to making up stories at whim, infiltrated to the brim with lies is now the authority figure.. people just have the good sense not to reply back to bunk.. but I just wanted to let you know, so you don't embaress yourself to a wider audiance or God forbid in person!

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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    There you go..ask your good buddy to tell you why 'Baba Shenouda' was strking against the nuns who converted to Islam and then come speak to me of 'freedom of religion by your standards'!


    البابا شنوده يعتكف في دير الإنبا بيشوي احتجاجا على "خطف" المسيحيات

    shnudatd4th - the quran has never changed?

    تصلي في الخفاء
    لست مراهقة ساذجة





    القاهرة - محمد حمدي

    أضاف البابا شنودة الثالث بطريرك الأقباط الأرثوذكس بعدا جديدا للأزمة في أوساط الأقباط المصريين عقب الأنباء التي ترددت عن اختفاء زوجة أحد القساوسة في مدينة أبو المطامير بمحافظة البحيرة شمال غرب العاصمة المصرية بعد إشهار إسلامها، حيث ذهب الباب للاعتكاف في دير الإنبا بيشوي بوادي النطرون وألغى عظته الأسبوعية التي يلقيها مساء كل أربعاء في كاتدرائية الأقباط الأرثوذكس في ضاحية العباسية شرق القاهرة في إشارة على عدم رضاه عن الأوضاع القائمة.


    ويعتبر لجوء البابا شنودة إلى الاعتكاف في دير الإنبا بيشوي تعبيرا عن الاحتجاج على وضع ما، وهو أسلوب يلجأ إليه البابا شنودة الثالث حينما تتوتر علاقاته مع الدولة.
    وكان موقع قبطي على الإنترنت قد ذكر أن فتاة مسيحية تدعى نورا عبد الله فهيم من مدينة الفرافرة في محافظة الوادي الجديد التي تبعد عن القاهرة حوالي 500 كم، قد اختفت أيضا وأشار الموقع إلى أن نورا تعمل في مستشفى الفرافرة بنفس المحافظة وهي خريجة معهد صحي أسيوط ويعيش والدها في قرية غرب الموهوب مركز الداخلة وهي مقيمة بالمستشفى التي تعمل فيه تحت التدريب.
    وقد شجعها شاب مسلم يعمل عامل بنفس المستشفى اسمه تامر عبد الحكيم مقيم بقرية الكفاح مركز الفرافرة محافظة الوادي الجديد وهو أصلا من دكرنس على الاختفاء معه من حوالي شهر تقريبا وقد ترددت الأخبار بأنه قد تزوجها زواجا عرفيا، ولكن لم يتردد أنها أشهرت إسلامها حتى الآن وقد أبلغ والدها الجهات الأمنية والسياسية بالمحافظة.
    وأشار الموقع إلى أن القمص بيشوي المحرقي المسؤول عن الخدمة بالوادي الجديد قد أبلغ كل الجهات التي تعاطفت مع الموقف بكل اهتمام ولكن حتى الآن لم يعثر عليها ولم تعد هي أو الشاب إلى عملهما لحد الآن، وقد أبلغ والدها مدير النيابة العامة متهما الشاب بتحريضها على الهروب وأمرت النيابة بضبطه.
    من جانب آخرنجحت السلطات المصرية مؤخرا في عقد لقاء بين السيدة وفاء قسطنطين وخمسة من مطارنة الكنيسة المصرية لمناقشتها حول ما أعلن عن اعتناقها الإسلام، وذلك في محاولة منها لاحتواء الأزمة المثارة في مصر، بعد أن سرت شائعات فحواها أن وفاء اختطفت وأجبرت على اعتناق الإسلام.
    وبحسب تصريحات لصحيفة "الشرق الأوسط"، فإن قسطنطين بدأت علاقتها بالإسلام منذ حوالي عامين، عندما شاهدت أحد البرامج التلفزيونية بالصدفة وكان يقدم شرحاً وتفسيرا لإحدى الآيات القرآنية، "فاكتشفت أن القرآن يتحدث بلغة العلم الحديث".
    ولأنها درست العلوم والزراعة، كما تذكر، فقد تأنت وفاء في تقديرها للموقف وطلبت من أحد زملائها المسلمين الذي "تثق فيه" أن يمدها بكتب عن الإسلام وتفسيره، "فاكتشفت أن الإسلام ليس كما عرفت دين عنف وتكفير للآخر، فقررت اعتناقه من دون أن يدرك أحد ذلك أويعرف سرها أحد، إلى أن حدثت التطورات الأخيرة".
    وقد تسبب اعتناق المهندسة وفاء قسطنطين الإسلام بـ"ثورة غضب" بين بعض أوساط المجتمع القبطي، وذلك رغم تكذيب وزارة الداخلية المصرية للأخبار التي أفادت بـ"خطف وفاء"، وتأكيدها أن السيدة البالغة من العمر 46 عاما أسلمت بكامل إرادتها، وتركت بيتها في مدينة أبوالمطامير في محافظة البحيرة في دلتا مصر 146 كيلومترا شمال القاهرة من دون أي ضغوط خارجية.
    تجدر الإشارة إلى أن وفاء قسطنطين مسيحية المولد والمنشأ، ولدت في عام 1959، في محافظة المنوفية بدلتا مصر لأسرة مسيحية، تملك المال والسمعة الطيبة، عاشت في محافظة المنوفية 23 عاما مع عائلتها قبل أن تنتقل إلى مدينة أبوالمطامير عقب زواجها. ملامحها هادئة وهي بيضاء مشربة بحمرة، وتحرص الآن على ارتداء الحجاب الذي يغطي شعرها.



    تصلي في الخفاء

    وفي مطلع الثمانينات حصلت على إجازة جامعية في الهندسة الزراعية، ثم تزوجت من أحد القساوسة، وأنجبت منه ابنا هوالآن مهندس وابنة تدرس في كلية العلوم جامعة الإسكندرية، وحينما شاهدت بالمصادفة برنامجا تلفزيونيا في التلفزيون المصري تناول فيه أحد المتحدثين تفسيرا للقرآن بشكل مبسط، فاكتشفت أن القرآن الذي نزل على محمد منذ ما يزيد على 1400 عام تحدث بلغة بسيطة يفهمها الجميع.. فبدأت تركز فيما تسمع حتى نهاية البرنامج التلفزيوني، وهي تشعر بشيء غامض ينبض به قلبها، وكأن صدرها ينشرح ـ كما تقول ـ لشيء مجهول لا تعي ماهية طبيعته.. ولأنها درست العلوم الزراعية اكتشفت أن الإسلام ليس كما عرفت دين عنف وتكفير للآخر، ووجدت فيه إجابات عن أسئلة كانت تشغل تفكيرها منذ سنوات، وكلما قرأت وتعلمت، أدركت سلامة موقفها وصحته، فزاد تمسكها بالإسلام الذي اعتنقته دون أن يدرك أحد ذلك، أويعرف سرها أحد، فكانت تصلي في غياب أسرتها أوفي حجرتها بعيدا عن أعينهم بعد أن تغلق عليها الباب بالمفتاح.
    وقد صامت شهر رمضان قبل الماضي والماضي، مبررة امتناعها عن الطعام بألم حاد ينتابها بين الحين والآخر في معدتها، إلا أن وفاء لم تدرك أن عين ابنتها كانت تشعر التغيير الذي ألم بوالدتها، حتى كان يوم استمعت فيه الابنة لمحادثة هاتفية بين وفاء وزميلها المسلم الذي كانت تطلب منه أحد الكتب الدينية، وكان ذلك منذ عام.
    وعن ذلك اليوم، ذكرت وفاء لصحيفة الشرق الأوسط أنها "تعجبت من عدم خوفي من اكتشاف ابنتي لأمر إسلامي ووجدتني أهدئها وأحدثها عن الإسلام لأقنعها به، ولكنها لم تقتنع، فطلبت منها عدم كشف سري فوافقت، واستمر الحال بي إلى أن شعرت قبل رمضان الماضي بأنني لا أستطيع أن أحيا طيلة حياتي بهذا الأسلوب، وخاصة مع زوج غير مسلم، فصارحت زميلي بما يعتمل في داخلي، فوعدني بتدبر الأمر، وبالفعل نجح في أن يجد لي مكانا خارج مدينتي لدى إحدى الأسر المسلمة في القاهرة، وكان من المقرر أن أترك البيت قبل رمضان، وآتي للقاهرة لإشهار إسلامي، إلا أن ابنتي كانت تضيّق عليّ رقابتها بعد أن شعرت بما أنوي فعله، فلم أفلح في ترك المنزل قبل رمضان".



    لست مراهقة ساذجة

    وتكمل وفاء قصتها بأنها نجحت في إقناع أسرتها منذ ثلاثة أسابيع في الذهاب إلى الإسكندرية (200 كيلومتر شمال القاهرة) لقضاء عدة أيام في شقتهم التي يملكونها هناك.. كان ذلك يوم جمعة، وبالفعل قضت ليلتها في الإسكندرية، وفي صباح السبت حضر لها زميلها الذي اصطحبها إلى القاهرة دون علم أحد وتوجه بها إلى تلك الأسرة المسلمة التي كان قد اتفق معها على استضافة وفاء.
    ورحبت الأسرة بوفاء وأحاطتها بالحنان، خاصة عندما بكت مع اقتراب عودة زميلها إلى مدينتهما، متذكرة ابنها وابنتها.. فما كان من رب العائلة المضيفة لها، إلا أن أخبرها أنها بإمكانها العودة إن أرادت، فردت عليه مؤكدة أنها اختارت طريقها الجديد رغم شوقها الكبير لأولادها.
    وقد اصطحب رب الأسرة وفاء إلى قسم الشرطة لإثبات حالها وسماع أقوالها في أنها جاءت بمحض إرادتها، بعدها ذهبت إلى مباحث أمن الدولة التي استمعت لها وسألتها عما إذا كانت قد تعرضت لأي ضغوط لإجبارها على الإسلام، فنفت ذلك.. ثم سألوها إذا كانت ترغب في العودة لأبنائها وعائلتها فأكدت لهم عدم ندمها على اختيارها.
    عندئذ سألوها إذا كانت تريد الانتقال إلى بيت آخر أومكان إقامة غير الذي تقيم فيه، فأكدت لهم راحتها مع تلك الأسرة المسلمة التي تحيطها بكل رعاية، وخرجت وفاء دون أن تعلم أن هناك نارا مشتعلة بدأت بشائعات في مدينتها، بأن المسلمين خطفوها ليجبروها على الإسلام.
    وتتعجب وفاء قائلة "لم أتخيل يوما أن تحتل أخباري قنوات الأخبار والصحافة العالمية، وأن تقوم وتندلع المظاهرات بسببي.. ولكن أقول لأي مسيحي إنني اتخذت قراري بمحض إرادتي، دون أي ضغوط.. لقد عرفت طريقي.. وانشرح قلبي على مدى عامين.. كما أنني لست فتاة مراهقة أوغير ناضجة من الممكن التأثير عليّ.


    http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2004/12/11/8617.html
    Last edited by جوري; 12-04-2007 at 11:51 PM. Reason: photo
    the quran has never changed?

    Text without context is pretext
    If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him 44845203 1 - the quran has never changed?

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    thirdwatch512's Avatar
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    Re: the quran has never changed?

    format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia View Post
    Rofl.. you must have your screws backwards?.. ask then why good old 'baba shenooda' went on strike with other church members when three nuns decided to become Muslim?..

    Again, You are the company you keep and just the quality and the bull in your posts is enough to give me a good idea of your inner self and those you keep in your company.

    Your standards aren't the measure by which others live their lives... one who has gone from the 'Ghost of the virgin mary over some church in tanta' to an atheist in three weeks or less to making up stories at whim, infiltrated to the brim with lies is now the authority figure.. people just have the good sense not to reply back to bunk.. but I just wanted to let you know, so you don't embaress yourself to a wider audiance or God forbid in person!

    cheers
    What does the coptic pope have anything to do with ME?

    This is a classic example of you trying to get attention by switching to tpic, to try and make your religion look true.
    I said that egypt is not secular to my standards, and it most certainly is not. However, i never said that CHRISTIANS in egypt were secular either.. Because by my standards, they are most certainly not.(that is, the status quo.)

    also, i am a rare member. I have been here for like what, a year?! And I have only like 400 posts. I am not active at all, so please..

    yes, I am an atheist.. I fail to understand how one can believe that we descended from two people(adam and eve) and that we are all descendent's from them. I fail to understand why "elohim/theos/allah" forgot to mention that there were millions of indians in the america's. I fail to understand how a loving god, "al rahim", a merciful god, whatever, could send someone to eternal hell.

    And a few weeks before I WAS showing some pictures from Zeitoon and the virgin mary appearing there. And your point is?

    I guess you should call all converts to islam gullible too.. I mean after all, they left their former beliefs.

    You consistently just try and argue. That is all you ever do with me is try to point out that I am gay, so I MUST, oh I just must be a bad person with no credibility. You call me liar, etc.

    Calm down with the personal insults. I think you are a wanabee attention grabber who has too much time on her hands.. But you don't hear me saying that in every post. So please, chill out.
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