US admits killing Iraqi civilians

[Moon*Light]

US admits killing Iraqi civilians

4/2/2008

The US military has admitted that nine Iraqi civilians were killed during an operation targeting suspected al-Qaeda fighters south of Baghdad, the capital.

Navy Lieutenant Patrick Evans, a military spokesman, said that the incident occurred on Saturday near the town of Iskandariya, 50km south of the Iraqi capital.

Three more civilians including two children were wounded "as coalition forces pursued al-Qaeda".

Witnesses said that 20 people, including 17 members of one family, had been killed in an US air raid in the area.


"Shortly after the incident, coalition forces leaders met with a sheikh representing the citizens of the local area," a US military statement said.
"The incident is under investigation. We offer our condolences to the families of those who were killed in this incident, and we mourn the loss of innocent civilian life."

The statement gave no further details.

Iraqi police said that US helicopters had fired on a checkpoint manned by a neighbourhood police patrol and several woman were among the victims.

Saturday's strike was the deadliest case of "mistaken identity" acknowledged by US forces in recent months.

In November, a leader of one of the so-called awakening councils, Sunni tribesmen allied with American forces in fighting to oust al-Qaeda from their towns, said that US soldiers had killed dozens of his fighters during a 12-hour battle north of Baghdad.

Mansour Abid Salim, the leader of the Taji Awakening Council, accused US troops of mistaking his men for fighters.

The military admitted killing 25 men, but said they were "insurgents" operating "in the target area" where al-Qaeda was believed to be hiding.

Critics say US forces often call in air raids on targets, including buildings where opposition fighters are believed to be hiding, without taking reasonable care to find out who might be inside.

The US military says that armed groups often deliberately use civilians as shields against attacking US forces.


Source: Agencies

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...8B0DB4AFB6.htm

[Ninth_Scribe]

US admits killing Iraqi civilians

4/2/2008

The US military has admitted that nine Iraqi civilians were killed during an operation targeting suspected al-Qaeda fighters south of Baghdad, the capital.

Navy Lieutenant Patrick Evans, a military spokesman, said that the incident occurred on Saturday near the town of Iskandariya, 50km south of the Iraqi capital.

Three more civilians including two children were wounded "as coalition forces pursued al-Qaeda".

Witnesses said that 20 people, including 17 members of one family, had been killed in an US air raid in the area.


"Shortly after the incident, coalition forces leaders met with a sheikh representing the citizens of the local area," a US military statement said.
"The incident is under investigation. We offer our condolences to the families of those who were killed in this incident, and we mourn the loss of innocent civilian life."

The statement gave no further details.

Iraqi police said that US helicopters had fired on a checkpoint manned by a neighbourhood police patrol and several woman were among the victims.

Saturday's strike was the deadliest case of "mistaken identity" acknowledged by US forces in recent months.

In November, a leader of one of the so-called awakening councils, Sunni tribesmen allied with American forces in fighting to oust al-Qaeda from their towns, said that US soldiers had killed dozens of his fighters during a 12-hour battle north of Baghdad.

Mansour Abid Salim, the leader of the Taji Awakening Council, accused US troops of mistaking his men for fighters.

The military admitted killing 25 men, but said they were "insurgents" operating "in the target area" where al-Qaeda was believed to be hiding.

Critics say US forces often call in air raids on targets, including buildings where opposition fighters are believed to be hiding, without taking reasonable care to find out who might be inside.

The US military says that armed groups often deliberately use civilians as shields against attacking US forces.


Source: Agencies

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...8B0DB4AFB6.htm

That's just their fancy way of covering up the fact that they declared open warfare in residential areas. Not all the peope can leave and go where they please. Only the rich can do that. I learned that when New Orleans was destroyed. I thought for sure everyone had enough warning and they would leave immediately because a category 5 hurricane speaks for itself. It's not open to negotiations. But they didn't leave. Most of them were poor and couldn't leave.

I don't get it, myself. But I do know the civilian casualties in Iraq are mounting over these God-forsaken air strikes because neither side is willing to give in... and it's all because of a name! Let's face it... anyone who proudly raises a banner with the name Al Qaeda is giving Bush a licence to own that land and erect whatever type government he wishes there - usually those who are willing to be obedient slaves... like Maliki. He says and does whatever the Bush administration wants him to.

The Ninth Scribe

[Moon*Light]

Yes, that makes me wonder about the background of al Qu'eda.

Also such rulers are useless.

[MaiCarInMtl]

I'd like to know what the civilian casualty numbers are compared to the "insurgent" casualty numbers are... It is disguting to see how many innocents have died.

[krypton6]

The insurgents are normal people who are against what america is doing to Iraq. The sunnis in Iraq are forced to fight against al-Qaida and possibly kill, it is not something that they want to.

[Moon*Light]

I think the amount of civilians dying is by far more than any combatant in Iraq.

bro kropton doesn't it bother you that the US has given to these the so called safwa guns to fight al qa'eda? So they kill each other and the attention is removed from the American soldiers?

[al_islam]

I dont see what the great fuss is.

We all know how the US soldiers conduct the affairs of the army.

[krypton6]

I think the amount of civilians dying is by far more than any combatant in Iraq.

bro kropton doesn't it bother you that the US has given to these the so called safwa guns to fight al qa'eda? So they kill each other and the attention is removed from the American soldiers?

In Iraq alot of sunni schoolars and shiekhs were kidnapped every single day, kidnapped by the current Iraqi government and kidnapped by the shia millits.

These schoolars were kidnapped from inside of their mosques some time while praying. They were kidnapped and executed in the most horrific way that you could imagine but I will spare you for the details.

The sunnis were kidnapped every single day, they had to do soemthing about that, and what could they do? They asked america for help and were given a offer; They could either risk being kidnapped and barbarically tortured and executed, or they could get the support that they so much needed in order to stop the kidnapping, if only they would ban al-Qaida from the sunni neighborhoods.

They had no choice, but unfortunately some al-Qaida recruits in Iraq do not seem to have any sort of empathy, I make it clear though that Bin Laden the leader of al-Qaida is strongly against the lack of empathy of some of his recruits, more specifically those who attack sunni neighborhoods! These Iraqi al-Qaida recruits are some of the longest branches on the grand al-Qaida tree, meaning that Bin Laden cannot controle them!

The fact that a muslim in this world needs america to survive bothers me, so yes it does bother me but they have no choice as it stands today!

[Moon*Light]

Ummm but the safwa is mainly to fight al qa'eda but you mentioned shia???

I think they have a choice other than taking help from the US. Taking any help from the enemy should be avoided.

Also, heck when is it a good thing for people of the same country to kill each other? Provided they need to protect themselves but never should they attack and become militias themselves.

Civil war is a mosnter no one should take part in feeding it.

[Ninth_Scribe]

I'd like to know what the civilian casualty numbers are compared to the "insurgent" casualty numbers are... It is disguting to see how many innocents have died.

Yeah, I'd like to know that myself, though I would tend to cut the "insurgents" more slack, seeing as they operate on the defensive position. In other words, they aren't the ones who invaded Iraq. They're just trying to defend it.

There's been a lot of accusations coming from here in the U.S. - stuff like how aweful Zarqawi was for pulling a cross-border raid that destroyed a wedding party. They never mention the fact that when the U.S. invaded Iraq, that Shock and Awe campaign wiped out 7000 (that's the modest count), some of which were members of a wedding party!

The leaders are useless. The Saudi king made an announcement stating that what Bush was doing in Iraq was illegal, but we all know that! He won't do anything about it. Some king he turned out to be. He won't even say a word in defense of the fighters there because Bush told them all to mind they're own business. Apparently, only Bush can call in foreign fighters.

If I ruled, I'd wipe out the democratically elected government, because it was a farce to begin with - and disrespectful. I'd ask the Shia to choose a Sunni leader and I'd ask the Sunnis to choose a Shia leader... and charge them each with the task of pleasing their people. I learned that from my childhood, when my brother and I fought over splitting a piece of cake. My great grand mother said: One of you can cut it, but the other chooses which piece they want. Hey, what ever works!

The Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

In Iraq alot of sunni schoolars and shiekhs were kidnapped every single day, kidnapped by the current Iraqi government and kidnapped by the shia millits.

These scholars were kidnapped from inside of their mosques some time while praying. They were kidnapped and executed in the most horrific way that you could imagine but I will spare you for the details.

The sunnis were kidnapped every single day, they had to do soemthing about that, and what could they do? They asked america for help and were given a offer; They could either risk being kidnapped and barbarically tortured and executed, or they could get the support that they so much needed in order to stop the kidnapping, if only they would ban al-Qaida from the sunni neighborhoods.

They had no choice, but unfortunately some al-Qaida recruits in Iraq do not seem to have any sort of empathy, I make it clear though that Bin Laden the leader of al-Qaida is strongly against the lack of empathy of some of his recruits, more specifically those who attack sunni neighborhoods! These Iraqi al-Qaida recruits are some of the longest branches on the grand al-Qaida tree, meaning that Bin Laden cannot controle them!

The fact that a muslim in this world needs america to survive bothers me, so yes it does bother me but they have no choice as it stands today!

I read about that. Abu Musab al Zarqawi left us with a rather detailed account before he was martyred, and he said the Shia had a free-for-all almost immediately after the invasion - they took something like 30 Masjids and rounded up all the scholars. There were no media reports at all... and the only Shia leader who stood up against this was al Sadr, but they (unknown coverts) found a way to trick him into fighting the Sunnis. I caught on to that - and let's just say, when they tried to pull that off a second time... he didn't fall for the trick.

As for Osama bin Laden, it's easy for him to have empathy... he doesn't have to deal with the day in and day out struggle. I have more empathy for Zarqawi for telling it like it is. He said he didn't want to fight the Shia but they came into the Sunni neighborhoods and went ballistic on them. That, by the way, was BEFORE he changed the name of his group to Al Qaeda in Iraq... so how could he have empathy? He showed his compassion once - but that got him absolutely nowhere!

Also, I wouldn't accept blood money from killers and call it a good business deal.

The Ninth Scribe

[krypton6]

As for Osama bin Laden, it's easy for him to have empathy... he doesn't have to deal with the day in and day out struggle. I have more empathy for Zarqawi for telling it like it is. He said he didn't want to fight the Shia but they came into the Sunni neighborhoods and went ballistic on them. That, by the way, was BEFORE he changed the name of his group to Al Qaeda in Iraq... so how could he have empathy? He showed his compassion once - but that got him absolutely nowhere!

Bin Laden doesnt have to deal with struggle? This man has bin chased for god knows how long, he have fought hundreds of battles. He gave up on a luxury life and ignored his own fealings in order to help others. He lost his entire family and he knew that he would lose them but he chose to look beyond his own fealings. If anyone has struggled for the past 108 years, it is him!

Also, I wouldn't accept blood money from killers and call it a good business deal.[/QUOTE]

Zarqawi had empathy, he was one of those who did not kill civilians.

[Ninth_Scribe]

[QUOTE=krypton6;911263]Bin Laden doesnt have to deal with struggle? This man has bin chased for god knows how long, he have fought hundreds of battles. He gave up on a luxury life and ignored his own fealings in order to help others. He lost his entire family and he knew that he would lose them but he chose to look beyond his own fealings. If anyone has struggled for the past 108 years, it is him! Zarqawi had empathy, he was one of those who did not kill civilians.

According to Omar bin Laden, his father is well taken care of. When asked if he (Omar) thought his father would ever be caught, he told the reporter it would never happen because those people who protect Osama are loyal to God and would rather die first... so I have no reason to worry for him. He's safe and he'll stay that way.

Also, he did not "lose" his family any more than Abu Musab did. They were forced to renounce him - and he knows that! Zarqawi's family was forced to do the same, but when he was martyred, the truth came out and they called him a martyr whether the king liked it or not. They would have given him a glorious funeral too had it not been for the fact that a Muslim king broke the law and deprived a Muslim of his burial rights - something that still infuriates me to this day.

Anyway, you and I have no argument. Just different points of view and we go about solving different problems. They all lead to the same place.

The Ninth Scribe

[krypton6]

[QUOTE=Ninth_Scribe;911625]According to Omar bin Laden, his father is well taken care of. When asked if he (Omar) thought his father would ever be caught, he told the reporter it would never happen because those people who protect Osama are loyal to God and would rather die first... so I have no reason to worry for him. He's safe and he'll stay that way."

He is well taken care of in the way that the people surrounding Bin Laden are all loyal to him. There's no doubt that physically Bin Laden is living a very tough life.

Also, he did not "lose" his family any more than Abu Musab did. They were forced to renounce him - and he knows that! Zarqawi's family was forced to do the same, but when he was martyred, the truth came out and they called him a martyr whether the king liked it or not. They would have given him a glorious funeral too had it not been for the fact that a Muslim king broke the law and deprived a Muslim of his burial rights - something that still infuriates me to this day.

A muslim king, what muslim king?

While Zarqawi visited his family many times and lived with them for days, Bin Laden have not seen his family since 2001!

[wilberhum]

civilians are killed in a war, this is a first.
And OBL is god's best.

[Muezzin]

'What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?'

- Ghandi

[barney]

'What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?'

- Ghandi

None whatsoever. They are dead.

For those that live on however, it makes the (literal)world of difference.

[Muezzin]

None whatsoever. They are dead.

For those that live on however, it makes the (literal)world of difference.

The quote included orphans and the homeless.

Oh well. War is hell.

[Ninth_Scribe]

He is well taken care of in the way that the people surrounding Bin Laden are all loyal to him. There's no doubt that physically Bin Laden is living a very tough life.

A muslim king, what muslim king?

The ruler of Jordan (King Abdullah) - he refused the request by Abu Musab's family. He said he didn't want Zarqawi to be buried in Jordan because he didn't want his body to "stain Jordanian soil." So, I cursed him. Let him spend his eternity with all those so-called stainless souls that were buried there!

My apologies for the misunderstanding concerning Osama. I thought he had a means of communication with his family, and I thought two of his sons were still with him. As for hardships - we're all suffering. The only ones who are enjoying life now are the wealthy who don't care about any of these matters.

Ideally, I would like to form a council of scholars so we can settle these matters once and for all, beginning with the new state that has been called Israel... I don't see how any of these matters can be resolved in any other way and Osama does have a valid case, even by Jewish holy law. I had once asked for round-the-table amnesty for all the fighters, but that didn't work. Now I'm asking for round-the-table amnesty for all the scholars. That's actually looking good, but it goes nowhere unless I can get the U.S. and U.N. to back off and mind their own business for awhile.

Well, that's my only shot in the dark. Prayers are always welcome.

The Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

And OBL is god's best.

Allow me to shed some light on the subject for you. Osama bin Laden is the ONLY one that can declare a truce. If he dies BEFORE a truce is made - the wars we've seen will pale in comparison to the ones that will follow! We will have traveled beyond the point of no return. No SANE person wants that!

There, my prophecy for the day!

The Ninth Scribe