why are the saudis incapable of controlling men's behaviour and traffic safety?
I think these clarify the issue very nicely...
From another forum:
*Shabab means young men.but i'll just give some real examples which i have seen with my own eyes:
1 - Guy gets out of Rolls Royce (Yes, a Rolls Royce) at traffic light, and passes a note (probably with his phone number etc) into a taxi with a lone female sitting inside
2 - A bunch of shabab* in a Jeep wrangler harassing a lone female inside a taxi. honking their horns, and hooting etc., and following the car around everywhere. I should have rammed into that 4x4 and ruthlessly mowed them over like the scourge of the earth that they are.
now... Just imagine what would happen if lone women were driving...
Women Driving Is Not in Conflict With Religion: Scholars
Samir Al-Saadi, Arab News
JEDDAH, 21 February 2008 — A well-regarded Saudi religious scholar said that there is nothing in Islamic law that bans women from driving and that the fatwas issued in this regard are based on individual judgments.
“In principle women driving is permitted in Islam,” said Sheikh Abdul Mohsen Al-Obaikan, a member of the Kingdom’s Council of Senior Islamic Scholars.
The ban, he said, has to do with the social complications rather than the act itself. As an example, the sheikh referred to a fatwa from former Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdulaziz Bin-Baz that said it is permitted for women in rural areas to drive cars, but that they should be forbidden from driving in the cities where, as Al-Obaikan said, “youths (even) harass women accompanied by parents and drivers.
He said if certain issues are resolved, such as the problem of men’s behavior and traffic safety, then he sees no religiously motivated conflict with women driving.
Sheikh Mehsin Al-Awaji, another prominent religious scholar in the Kingdom, agreed. “No religious scholar is going to tell you differently,” he said. “But (the issue of) women driving comes as a ‘package’ and we need to fix the ‘package’ before making the decision (to allow women to drive).”
Expanding on the idea that allowing women to drive in Saudi Arabia comes with a “package” of issues, Al-Awaji said there needs to be Saudi women working as police officers, mechanics and other positions. The sheikh diminished the significance of women driving, saying that myriad social reforms have higher priority, even in the realm of empowering women or encouraging public participation in important social challenges.
Fawzeyah Al-Oyouni, a woman’s rights and human rights activist, said that most people agree that Islam doesn’t forbid women from driving. The problem, she says, is that the government isn’t moving fast enough to implement the necessary actions to open the way for a smooth transition toward allowing women to drive.
The Saudi government has pointed out that there is no law that states women cannot drive. “The Interior Ministry’s stand is clear on this,” said ministry spokesman Gen. Mansour Al-Turki.
But in reality women are occasionally arrested when found driving. Arab News reported several instances in recent years of situations where women have been stopped by authorities and detained for the infraction of driving a vehicle.
In a previous statement, Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah said that Saudi women would be permitted to drive someday.
Arab News asked 125 men what they thought of the issue. Ten men categorically opposed the idea; 36 men were fully in support of an unqualified lift on the social ban; and the rest would be OK with women driving with a few ground rules.
Most of the men who expressed reservations to an unqualified lift on the social ban — 80 of them — said they were concerned about safety due to the hazardous conditions on Saudi roads and lack of sufficient enforcement of traffic laws. Sixteen men expressed religious reservations; 21 men expressed financial reasons while eight expressed social concerns.
Four hundred Saudi and non-Saudi women were asked by Arab News about the subject. Out of this survey, Arab News found that 282 of these women would drive cars on their own, without a male guardian. Forty-four women said they would continue to use drivers. Thirty women said they would only drive with their male guardian in the car. Thirty-two women said they would drive with a relative in the vehicle. A dozen women said they opposed the idea of women driving.
Out of these women, 122 said they wouldn’t drive on Saudi roads due to safety concerns while 296 said they would have to see better enforcement of rules before they would feel safe driving. Seventy-two women said they’d rise to the challenge of driving in Saudi Arabia’s traffic.
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§...=21&m=2&y=2008
why are the saudis incapable of controlling men's behaviour and traffic safety?
My thoughts exactly.format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
| — | Guy who wrecked himself |
and how can you control a man's behavior?
Peace
Educate them.format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
Puncture their tyres.
Whatever suits you..kay:
BaarakAllaahu feekum, ukhtee. May Allaah preserve ash-Shaykh 'Ubaykaan and have mercy upon Shaykhuna Ibnu Baaz, ameen.The ban, he said, has to do with the social complications rather than the act itself. As an example, the sheikh referred to a fatwa from former Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdulaziz Bin-Baz that said it is permitted for women in rural areas to drive cars, but that they should be forbidden from driving in the cities where, as Al-Obaikan said, “youths (even) harass women accompanied by parents and drivers.
^Ameen.
Do you know anything about the shaykh quoted in the article, sis? If so, can you tell us a little about him?
Shaykh ‘Abdul-Muhsin Ibn Naasir Aali-‘Ubaykaan, may Allaah preserve him, is a Saudi Scholar, and was born in 1933. Shaykh 'Ubaykaan graduated from the Faculty of Sharee'ah at Al-Imam Muhammad Ibn Saud Islamic University in 1960. He went on to complete a masters degree and a doctorate from the same faculty, specializing in Islamic Fiqh. He is a member of Saudi's Council of Senior Scholars, if I am not mistaken.format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
^Ameen.
Do you know anything about the shaykh quoted in the article, sis? If so, can you tell us a little about him?
Here is his website:
http://www.obaykan.com/
It doesn't seem to be working for me though.
Geting whipped should be a deterrent in itself, dont'cha fink .format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
*Makes whip sound
So because their men are morons, the women have to suffer?
I'm sorry, but that's just stupid.
I live here, and the ban on women driving makes life difficult. I can't do anything or go anywhere until my dad comes home from work at night, and he's at work all day, when he comes home, he wants to relax, so I don't like asking him to drive me somewhere. His whole weekend is consumed with driving my brothers and I to places, buying groceries, taking us to doctor's appointments, etc.
Also, women being unable to drive causes another HUGE negative factor here. Mostly all 14, 15, 16 year old guys drive without a license, so they can take their mothers and sisters out. My brother is 14, and all his friends drive (he doesn't), have their own car, everything. They never take driving classes, they don't have a license, and drive like maniacs. I personally know 3 people who have been killed in car accidents caused by underage drivers driving at high speeds. And that's just the people that died, I know about half a dozen others who were seriously injured. And the *******s aren't even sentenced properly. They bribe their way out of punishment, or are given a few months. It disgusts me.
The new king is thinking of allowing women to drive, with certain conditions at first, then normally. If we still live here when that happens, I doubt my mom will want to drive because of all the reasons mentioned in the article. I wouldn't want to drive on the same streets as the lunatics.
So the driving issue in Saudi isn't about women driving or not, it's about the underage driving, the reckless driving, and the crap system that lets all the murders loose.
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
No it isn't. It isn't about suffering, it is about protection and safety.
You just admitted yourself that you "wouldn't want to drive on the same streets as the lunatics".
On one hand it is okay for you to say that you won't drive because of the lunatics but on the other hand it is stupid to stop women from driving because of morons?
You're contradicting yourself...
Take the men off the roads :P
They should let women make their own decisions. I personally wouldn't want to drive here, but other women may. It's not their right to decide for us.format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
No it isn't. It isn't about suffering, it is about protection and safety.
You just admitted yourself that you "wouldn't want to drive on the same streets as the lunatics".
On one hand it is okay for you to say that you won't drive because of the lunatics but on the other hand it is stupid to stop women from driving because of morons?
You're contradicting yourself...
I would be inclined to disagree - they have the duty to protect society as a whole, and if that means, in their perspective, that the lesser evil here to forbid women in cities driving then so be it.
I mean doesn't it remind you of hijab, in a way? Allah says in the Quran, (in words to the effect of) that we (the women) are to cover up so that we don't get annoyed/harassed by the men... Allah never gave us the option that if we don't mind being harassed we can stop wearing hijab...
I'm not saying that these two cases are analogous, but I'm just saying, maybe we should think outside the box a little...
Actually, it is the right of the Govt. to judge what is the greater good for society. It's silly to let everyone decide what's right for themselves. Remember the hadeeth of the Messenger, salAllahu `alayhi wa sallam, recorded in the Saheeh, wherein he gave a parable of the hudood, or regulations of Allaah, and he explained that by a ship with different levels. The people on the lowest level wanted to get water and some of them suggested that rather than going up and down all of the time, and bothering everyone on the level above them, it would be better that they simply make a hole in the side of the ship so they can get their water.format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
And as he, salAllahu `alayhi wa sallam, said, if the others do not stop them, they will all perish.
So, the rulers should not let people decide what's right or wrong for themselves, rather they should try to establish that which is best for society, to the best of their Judgement, under the guidance of the Scholars. Allaahu A'lam.
WOMEN ARE NOT ALLOWED OT DRIVE IN SAUDI?!?!
There go my plans to move there... - I cant live without driving!!!
lol you seriously didn't know that sis?
Don't despair, they are planning to lift the law apparently...
Inshaa Allaah they better!
Come to think of it.... I was wondering what was so weird when I went Umrah lol.... I never noticed...
They should stop-gag all the women in Saudi.
Think of the logic behind it! A woman may say something that may be overheard by a passerby and maybe taken as an insult of an advance (in his mind). Then the woman is in trouble!
For the betterment and safety of society, women in Saudi should be gagged.
^ What a shocking suggestion!!!
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