The brains of gay men and women look like those found in heterosexual people of the opposite sex, research suggests.
The Swedish study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences journal, compared the size of the brain's halves in 90 adults.
Gay men and heterosexual women had halves of a similar size, while the right side was bigger in lesbian women and heterosexual men.
A UK scientist said this was evidence sexual orientation was set in the womb.
As far as I'm concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay Queen Mary, University of London
Scientists have noticed for some time that homosexual people of both sexes have differences in certain cognitive abilities, suggesting there may be subtle differences in their brain structure.
This is the first time, however, that scientists have used brain scanners to try to look for the source of those differences.
A group of 90 healthy gay and heterosexual adults, men and women, were scanned by the Karolinska Institute scientists to measure the volume of both sides, or hemispheres, of their brain.
When these results were collected, it was found that lesbians and heterosexual men shared a particular "asymmetry" in their hemisphere size, while heterosexual women and gay men had no difference between the size of the different halves of their brain.
In other words, structurally, at least, the brains of gay men were more like heterosexual women, and gay women more like heterosexual men.
A further experiment found that in one particular area of the brain, the amygdala, there were other significant differences.
In heterosexual men and gay women, there were more nerve "connections" in the right side of the amygdala, compared with the left.
The reverse, with more neural connections in the left amygdala, was the case in homosexual men and heterosexual women.
The Karolinska team said that these differences could not be mainly explained by "learned" effects, but needed another mechanism to set them, either before or after birth.
'Fight, flight or mate'
Dr Qazi Rahman, a lecturer in cognitive biology at Queen Mary, University of London, said that he believed that these brain differences were laid down early in foetal development.
"As far as I'm concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay," he said.
The amygdala, he said, was important because of its role in "orientating", or directing, the rest of the brain in response to an emotional stimulus - be it during the "fight or flight" response, or the presence of a potential mate.
"In other words, the brain network which determines what sexual orientation actually 'orients' towards is similar between gay men and straight women, and between gay women and straight men.
"This makes sense given that gay men have a sexual preference which is like that of women in general, that is, preferring men, and vice versa for lesbian women."
Last edited by Uthman; 06-17-2008 at 06:57 PM.
Reason: Link removed
"I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."
Actually a more accurate way of checking this out would be scanning a big enough number of babies brains and seeing if this pattern exists in the wrong gender's brain.
If such did exist then they might have something to base it on, unless the said babies were from weird parents too...
But one thing's for sure no one alive today is descended from prophet Lut's people cos all the evil ones were destroyed
"Indeed in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest"
Actually a more accurate way of checking this out would be scanning a big enough number of babies brains and seeing if this pattern exists in the wrong gender's brain.
f such did exist then they might have something to base it on, unless the said babies were from weird parents too...
I agree with you sister, but there are all sorts of ethical issues associated with that.
"I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."
I agree with brother osman, that people cannot control whether they have homosexual urges or not, however what matters is how they act upon these feelings.
Yes i would love too see that, a scientist being able to identify a baby as being a gay candidate for the future.
so the debate is over just because of 90 adults? get real doctor, what an idiot i must say.
not even 900. no, 90!
I'll have to agree with that, though I didn't wish to partake in this thread.. I want to see the numbers that come with the research.. you know P values and statistical analysis.. ultimately in the end that is what matters...
This is the same field of medicine that not 30 years ago deemed homosexuality an act of sexual deviance in the DSM.. and when the whole gay gene thing didn't pan out well.. try some other ridiculous approach and push it out to be en vogue with what is politically correct.. who is going to question the psychiatric community of sweden and whatever pool of population they have tested?
Most folks aren't equipped to critique research.. I used to run to my preceptors with whatever the latest read in esteemed medical journal, only to be lectured actually chewed out for not being more critical of content...
that is how folks get away with pushing out products like Vytorin & Zetia as a recent example and then later have them taken off the market when the none sponsoring company runs a randomized double blind study to find that not only are they therapeutically insignificant but can have considerable side effect...
Sob7an Allah... let's be a bit more critical of what we read...
Homosexuality is a psychological condition, whether or not they feel an inclination isn't the issue.. pederasts also feel an inclination toward fresh young pubertal altar boys, while one makes folks cringe and is punishable by law, the other for some reason is celebrated and applauded.. even though they are essentially one in the same!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I found this research very interesting, confirming what science has suspected for a long time. In particular we already know that the amygdala is largely responsible for sexual orientation, so to see it also implicated here was good news that steady progress is being made.
format_quote Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
Homosexuality is a psychological condition, whether or not they feel an inclination isn't the issue.. pederasts also feel an inclination toward fresh young pubertal altar boys, while one makes folks cringe and is punishable by law, the other for some reason is celebrated and applauded.. even though they are essentially one in the same!
I agree and disagree with your point, Homosexuality is with two consenting adults, "fresh young pubertal alter boys" are not at an age of consent.
This topic reminds me of a well documented case in the US, where an otherwise healthy adult family male with a "normal" sexual desire started to become sexually aroused by peadophilia, progressively it became worse and he started to sexually molest his own children.
Being caught by the state he was promptly jailed where after several months of persistant complaining of progrssively worseining headaches he recieved a brain scan showing a brain tumour applying considerable pressure to the amygdala.
After his brain operation to remove the tumour his sexual desire returned to "normal" losing all sexual arousal for peadophilia. 9 months later, he reported that his sexual desire was "changing" again back to peadophilia and he was immediately brain scanned which revealed that the tumour had returned and was again applying pressure on the amgdala. The tumour was removed once more and his sexual desire returned to "normal" and has remained normal to this day.
Not only does this case give us an valuable insight into the brain mechanics of sexual orientation but strikes at the very notion of free will.
Was this man responsible for his actions.
Did this man have free will
Should this man be treated & punished or treated and released
Either way, both articles provide us with enough caution that sexual desire is not as black and white as we would like to believe.
Not only does this case give us an valuable insight into the brain mechanics of sexual orientation but strikes at the very notion of free will.
Was this man responsible for his actions.
Did this man have free will
Should this man be treated & punished or treated and released
What?! Who cares if the desire was not his control! That is not a good enough reason for him to start abusing his children. What ever happened to self control?
How is what you are saying any different to a man being attracted by a women and then raping her as a result? Are you going to let him go because he couldn't help that he found the woman attractive?
Erm, how does identifying a gay brain difference equate to you're born gay (ignoring the fact that as humans, it's actually genetically impossible to be BORN GAY).
At most this study merely identifies the signals that are highlighted when the homosexual is aroused. Because of the homosexuality, it highlights abc signals - heteros would have xyz signals highlighted. If you are getting me.
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
Erm, how does identifying a gay brain difference equate to you're born gay (ignoring the fact that as humans, it's actually genetically impossible to be BORN GAY).
What?! Who cares if the desire was not his control! That is not a good enough reason for him to start abusing his children. What ever happened to self control?
You mean like obese people, alcoholics, gambling addictions, drug addicts. What ever happened to self control!
Though remember, removal of the tumour removed the need for self control. What is self control anyway...........
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
How is what you are saying any different to a man being attracted by a women and then raping her as a result? Are you going to let him go because he couldn't help that he found the woman attractive?
I am talking sexual desire and not sexual violence, so It's not relavent to my point.
Erm, how does identifying a gay brain difference equate to you're born gay (ignoring the fact that as humans, it's actually genetically impossible to be BORN GAY).
Without actually hitting the reverse gear and defending the "definition" of "Gay". Can you back that statement up with just 1 single peer reviewed paper????? many thanks.
Without actually hitting the reverse gear and defending the "definition" of "Gay". Can you back that statement up with just 1 single peer reviewed paper????? many thanks.
It's common sense and a little bit of biology. Humans cannot procreate if they are committing homosexuality. Therefore, you cannot be born gay (since it'd have to come from your genetic makeup - since both of your parents would have to be heterosexual for you to have been born in the first place, there is zero possibility of you obtaining a gay gene from them - even if your genetics were to skip a generation, homosexuality PREVENTS passing on the gene in the first place) Hence you cannot be born gay.
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
Without actually hitting the reverse gear and defending the "definition" of "Gay". Can you back that statement up with just 1 single peer reviewed paper????? many thanks.
I think he was trying to say that since gay people can't normally have children it would be impossible for children to inherit gayness from their parents.
Unless gayness is recessive. Or maybe it was new mutation?
Indeed. It's also worth pointing out that many gay people do have children due to social pressure.
I don't think homosexuality is inheritable though, it's probably a mutation of some sort.
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As far as I'm concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay
Re: Scans see 'gay brain differences'
Or maybe it was new mutation?
Are you serious? Violence or not, he still abused the children!
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