What do muslims think of the holocaust? you lot tell me pwease!

[Sahabiyaat]

As you may or may not know im an odd bodd and like to stick out so when all my classmates choose modules relating to Islam, im more of Jewish fan and usually find myself as the only muslim sitting in a class full of jews


and sooooo

My dissertation topic is as follows ; British muslim perspectives on the holocaust(with specific reference to the Tehran Conference and Holocaust Memorial Day.

My supervisor is obviously jewish and says that in all her time teaching she has never supervised such a topic, meaning looking at the holocaust thru muslim eyes.so im the first person to do it


this is what my proposal looks like

TITLE : British Muslim perspectives on the holocaust (with specific reference to the Tehran conference and Holocaust Memorial Day)

Provisional table of contents;

Introduction
PART 1: Holocaust denial and the Muslim world

Chapter 1: What is Holocaust denial?

Sub questions:
What are the reasons behind holocaust denial in general?
• Anti Semitism
• Anti Zionism
In what ways has Muslim attitudes towards the holocaust impacted the muslim world?
• Islam phobia
• International relations

Chapter 2: The Tehran Conference and Holocaust denial

Sub questions:
What are the reasons behind Muslim holocaust denial in particular?
How suspect are the motives for the Tehran conference?
What impact has the Tehran conference had on Arab - Israeli relations?

PART 2: Muslim ‘resistance’ to the institutionalised memory of the Holocaust in Britain

Chapter 3: British Muslim attitudes to Holocaust Memorial Day (2001ff)

Sub questions:
What are the origins, aims and objectives behind holocaust memorial day?
‘Genocide Memorial Day’ .v. uniqueness of Holocaust.
Why is there still resistance by Muslims to the institutionalised memory of the holocaust in Britain?
What effects have resulted from Muslim participation in holocaust memorial day?

Chapter 4: Attitudes to the Holocaust amongst British Muslim Youth

Sub questions:
What are the Muslim attitudes to the inclusion of the Holocaust in the National Curriculum of England and Wales?(drawing upon fieldwork)


Conclusion
Proposals / suggestions in light of information and evidence from research.


I just wanted to know what you lot think of this topic and if you have anything interrsting to add, or just your own opinion.

[Fishman]

Sounds like an interesting topic. I myself believe the official story of the Holocaust completely, and even if six million Jews were not killed then there are still the other victims of the holocaust, the persecution of the Jews before they went to gas chambers and the countless millions of Slavs that were enslaved and massacred to contend with. Its pretty obvious what the intentions of the Nazi Empire were regarding the Jews: their complete and utter elimination from society.

Also, if the Jews weren't killed in the Holocaust, where did they all go? Why are there so many ruined Jewish towns throughout eastern Europe that were abandoned in the '30s and '40s? There is so much evidence for the genocide that Holocaust Denial seems like some kind of mental disorder to me.

Unfortunately there are too many people in the middle east and the Muslim world that have this disorder. This is probably one of the reasons why Islamist and pan-Islamic movements have no credibility with the west, whilst Jewish movements such as zionism do. And it is self-perpetuating: the more that Muslim leaders say illogical things regarding the Holocaust, the more the west is given towards sypmathy with Israel, and the more likely Americans are to say things like 'nuke the ayrabs into glass!' or 'kick the Muslims out the country!'

Its especially illogical given that Arabs are just as semetic as Jews. The Nazis didn't care about religion, if a Jew's grandparents converted to Christianity, they would still try to get them. The Nazis promised great things to the Arabs during the war, but their track record regarding promises is pretty lousy. They promised that they would only use their weapons to defend themselves. They promised that they wouldn't take the rest of Czechoslovakia. They promised that they wouldn't invade the USSR. All of those were broken pretty soon after they were made, so what makes Muslim Nazi-supporters think that they wouldn't have been betrayed as well? Most likely the Arabs would have been treated as the French or the Italians treated them- massacred and treated as second-class citizens.

[bewildred]

Looking for controversy. Ain't ya??????

[Amadeus85]

Town near my village had 50% of jewish population in 1939. Now no jew lives there.
My grandpa was telling that when Germans came to this town for jews to get them to the ghetto, jews started to run to the nearby river and many decided to drown there.
Countless towns and villages in nowadays western Belarus and western Ukraine had big populations of jews- 25%,30% or sometimes even 50 %.

[Woodrow]

Just on a personal note. The only problem I see is that the hype about the holocaust ignores the slaughter done against Muslims. It was not just Jews who suffered, we also did. True by numbers more Jews died in the German atrocity, but virtually 100% of all Muslims in Germany died in it and we get no mention.

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Did anyone else notice this:

What are the reasons behind Muslim holocaust denial in particular?

Who says that there's a Muslim denial of Holocaust??? If this means: "All Muslims, or at least a majority of them deny Holocaust," then this is a peak of stupidity!

As for me: no doubt Holocaust did happen, and Islam condemns killing innocent people. Even in a state of war, Muslims don't kill innocent people.

But, there are a few things that annoy me: that Holocaust is misused. It appears to me that crimes happen only because some people believe that, because of Holocaust, they have the right to it. They use Holocaust as a justification! Also, if you deny Holocaust, you may end up behind bars. However, listen to this example: a supposed expert for terrorism, a guy named "dr" Darko Trifunović denies the Srebenica genocide OPENLY and get noooo jail. And what's more: even after the whole world knew that he denied it, and Srebrenica genocide is the greatest tragedy in Europe after WW II, he still got invited to a Berlin Police congress! In the end he didn't appear there because he supposedly got death threats!

So, as for me, I do regret all the innocent people, especially women and children, who got killed by that Nazi pig. But, today, people do not have the right attitude towards it.

[bewildred]

I agree with bro Abdu_I_Majid. All Srebreniça negationists won't be sued or even bothered because there's no muslim lobbying.

[Whatsthepoint]

Just on a personal note. The only problem I see is that the hype about the holocaust ignores the slaughter done against Muslims. It was not just Jews who suffered, we also did. True by numbers more Jews died in the German atrocity, but virtually 100% of all Muslims in Germany died in it and we get no mention.

How many Muslims were killed? Were they killed specifically for being Muslim?
I personally never heard of Muslims being persecuted by the Nazi regime, so you could be right.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Sahabiyaat;

It seems the Germans have learnt huge lessons since the war, as a nation they seem to carry remorse.

But what of the Jewish Nation, what have they learnt since the Holocaust, surely they would not want to suppress another nation in the way they were suppressed.

And we look at Palestine and the refuge camps the modern Ghettos, how can the Jews condemn the Holocaust when they also appear to be suppressing another nation.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all oppressed people

Eric

[bewildred]

How many Muslims were killed? Were they killed specifically for being Muslim?
I personally never heard of Muslims being persecuted by the Nazi regime, so you could be right.

Well, for a historical note, all the Algerians who were forced by the French colonial system to fight during WW1 and who remained in France after the war was over, were exterminated in different camps. Compared to the jews who were killed there, the number is minor. But a life is a life. It's priceless. It's unique and no one has the right to reap it but Allah.

Bewildred S.

[Amadeus85]

Just on a personal note. The only problem I see is that the hype about the holocaust ignores the slaughter done against Muslims. It was not just Jews who suffered, we also did. True by numbers more Jews died in the German atrocity, but virtually 100% of all Muslims in Germany died in it and we get no mention.

Woodrow, are you joking?
How many there were muslims in Germany in 1939? 100? 50?

[Woodrow]

How many Muslims were killed? Were they killed specifically for being Muslim?
I personally never heard of Muslims being persecuted by the Nazi regime, so you could be right.

The actual numbers were small as the Muslim population was small. However, percentage wise it was large. Nearly if not 100% Little is mentioned in history books, you need to look in places like census records, etc.

I am not at home at the moment and it will be a few days before I return home and find my old world atlas books.

[Whatsthepoint]

Well, for a historical note, all the Algerians who were forced by the French colonial system to fight during WW1 and who remained in France after the war was over, were exterminated in different camps. Compared to the jews who were killed there, the number is minor. But a life is a life. It's priceless. It's unique and no one has the right to reap it but Allah.

Bewildred S.

Were they killed because of their faith?
The Third Reich occupied a lot of areas with a significant Muslim population and didn't exterminate Muslims.

[Bittersteel]

Muslims deny the Holocaust->to anger and irritate the Israelis->who they hate for the Israeli-Palestine conflict.
seems like that to me.

[Whatsthepoint]

The actual numbers were small as the Muslim population was small. However, percentage wise it was large. Nearly if not 100% Little is mentioned in history books, you need to look in places like census records, etc.

I am not at home at the moment and it will be a few days before I return home and find my old world atlas books.

Woodrow, are you joking?
How many there were muslims in Germany in 1939? 100? 50?

I know Wiki isn't a reputable source of information around here, but this is what its got to say on the issue:

At this time there were 3,000 Muslim in Germany, 300 of whom were of German descent.
By the end of World War II there were only a few hundred Muslims living in Germany.

It does seem the number of Muslims decreased dramatically during the World war II, but how do we know the reason is Nazi persecution, or worse, extermination?

[Amadeus85]

The actual numbers were small as the Muslim population was small. However, percentage wise it was large. Nearly if not 100% Little is mentioned in history books, you need to look in places like census records, etc.

I am not at home at the moment and it will be a few days before I return home and find my old world atlas books.

Woodrow, my opinion is that you should mind the proportions.
I am pretty sure that during the World War II hundreds of sikhs died in brittish forces. There were even dozens of Maoris from New Zeland who died then fighting in Creta for example.
Many nationalities could say - "World War II wasnt just jewish slaughter".
At least 15 million russians died then,
Its just that we should seperate Holocaust from the battles that took place in that war. concentration camps were like machines for destroying jews, Poles,gypsies.

[Whatsthepoint]

Woodrow, my opinion is that you should mind the proportions.
I am pretty sure that during the World War II hundreds of sikhs died in brittish forces. There were even dozens of Maoris from New Zeland who died then fighting in Creta for example.
Many nationalities could say - "World War II wasnt just jewish slaughter".
At least 15 million russians died then,
Its just that we should seperate Holocaust from the battles that took place in that war. concentration camps were like machines for destroying jews, Poles,gypsies.

As well as Hitler's political opponents, homosexuals, Jehovah's witnesses, and perhaps even Muslims.

[Amadeus85]

As well as Hitler's political opponents, homosexuals, Jehovah's witnesses, and perhaps even Muslims.

The same what I said to Woodrow, know the proportions, Whatsthepoint(but I know that you know )
We can not say that Holocaust was all aboout killing muslims and jeahova witnesses with all due respect.

[bewildred]

Well, I've always thought that forums offer such an interesting meat for sociologists. The shift from a thread starter to its last post is pretty interesting.

NO ONE in the Holocaust was killed for his religious beliefs. They were exterminated because of their difference.

[Whatsthepoint]

The same what I said to Woodrow, know the proportions, Whatsthepoint(but I know that you know )
We can not say that Holocaust was all aboout killing muslims and jeahova witnesses with all due respect.

Sorry, I thought you missed those out.