Interesting questions.
It will be nice to know what their answers will be.
This question goes to all the non muslims on the forum. Basicly after spending some time on this forum. What are the reason why you have not converted/reverted to islam?
We believe islam is perfect, which non muslims obviously do not agree with. So i wan't to know from you guys, what do u find not perfect about islam?
While at it, could you aslo please mention the things u find good, or very usefull in islam.
I thank you for your efforts
Interesting questions.
It will be nice to know what their answers will be.
Bump, I need some answers to those questions
So please, take a moment of ur life and answer
im guessing this excludes aetheists agnostics?
also interesting to add "after spending time on this forum" by this we assume they have a slight understanding of islaam...
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Yep, they should have a slight understanding. So it will be easy for most of our brothers/sisters in humanity to answer.
Well atheist and agnostic could join and give their views, beside the fact that (atheists) do not believe in a god.
Greetings,
If I've learned one thing in my three years on the forum, I feel absolutely certain in saying that atheists and agnostics count as 'non-Muslim'.format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Why aren't I a Muslim? There are many reasons, but if I get into them too much here, I might be told I am being offensive, which could lead to a caution or a ban.
That's one of the reasons I'm not a Muslim.
But that is also, of course, before we get into the whole existence of god question, which has been (and will continue to be) debated in many other threads.
It would be a breath of fresh air if we could have a thread like this one that didn't end in people getting heated and offended, in which we could discuss the matter plainly and honestly, without worrying about the thread having to be closed. Sadly, I don't think it's going to happen.
Peace
Peace czgibsonformat_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
My intentions are to open a thread were u can state ur reasons (trying ur best not to offend people) and if needed, we could ask why u have certain views. So no heated debates, I will ask mods to delete posts if its going to head into a fighting arena.
Could I ask, So one of ur reasons is; That islam or muslims forbid or get offended when u state ur opinions. Did I get that right?
Greetings and peace be with you raOnar;
As our friend czgibson has said the whole question about the existence of God causes all of us real problems, there is no final and absolute proof. If there were, the chances are we would all see this proof in the same way, and believe in the same way too.
I believe Jesus Christ is the son of God, all other messengers are prophets, and therefore do not carry that power or authority.
I have a great respect for Islam and Muslims in the way they pray, fast, their family values and striving to resist the temptations of the world.
In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith understanding and friendship
Eric
I just have one request for my fellow brothers and sisters in islam.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do NOT turn this into a debate. (i almost know it will be)
Peace be upon you Eric,format_quote Originally Posted by Eric HGreetings and peace be with you raOnar;
As our friend czgibson has said the whole question about the existence of God causes all of us real problems, there is no final and absolute proof. If there were, the chances are we would all see this proof in the same way, and believe in the same way too.
I believe Jesus Christ is the son of God, all other messengers are prophets, and therefore do not carry that power or authority.
I have a great respect for Islam and Muslims in the way they pray, fast, their family values and striving to resist the temptations of the world.
In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith understanding and friendship
Eric
Thanks for taking time to answer
Greetings,
1. I would never set out to offend people.format_quote Originally Posted by raOnarPeace czgibson
My intentions are to open a thread were u can state ur reasons (trying ur best not to offend people) and if needed, we could ask why u have certain views. So no heated debates, I will ask mods to delete posts if its going to head into a fighting arena.
2. Heated debate is pretty much an inevitable occurrence in a topic like this.
It's understandable that my beliefs are forbidden for Muslims, but that doesn't mean they should (or can) be forbidden for me or other non-Muslims.Could I ask, So one of ur reasons is; That islam or muslims forbid or get offended when u state ur opinions. Did I get that right?
If someone is being rude, it's understandable that people get offended. The fact is, though, that there are many topics about Islam that are incredibly difficult or impossible to discuss without the conversation being shut down by figures in authority.
Peace
Greetings and peace be with you raOnar;
I strive towards these values, but often feel I should be doing more. I have learned much about faith and Christianity from Muslims, atheists, Buddhists and others, after all there is only one God and he hears all our prayers.Thanks for taking time to answer
In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth,
Eric
huh?
Greetings, raOnar,
I forgot to mention the things about Islam that I like, which you also asked about. Here are a few:
1. The Golden Age of Islam, when Muslim thinkers were pretty much at the intellectual peak of humanity.
2. The aforesaid thinkers' preservation of Ancient Greek texts.
3. The purity of Islamic monotheism in comparison with, say, Christianity.
4. The sense of belonging that Muslims obviously feel in the ummah. In my view this has its dark side, too, but its good side is too evident to be ignored.
5. The feat of fasting that Muslims perform every year during Ramadan commands respect.
6. The Islamic pillar of zakat.
Peace
intresting topic
i look foward to reading more responces
so far i don't think anyone answered the q: Why arent you muslim
if you don't mind i hav another question: is there anything in this world that can make you turn to another religion/would you every leave your religion for another?
Peace!
The biggest reason is the lack of evidence, but there are other reasons as well which I'll try and explain.
I am somewhat of a pacifist and I don't approve of the killing of people as a punishment, and the cutting off of fingers or hands to me seems somewhat worse. Anything of that sort I just can't in good conscience accept to be ordered by a loving and compassionate being. To add to that I don't feel that it is right for two consenting adults in a loving relationship that harms no one to be punished simply because it's extramarital or because they're the same gender. I can understand that cutting off a hand or using the death penalty in some cases will probably reduce the chances of crimes, but I still don't think those punishments should ever be used despite the benefits it may have for society.
I still see the evil and suffering issue as unresolved. Muslims believe that this life is a test and that patience and persistence through suffering is part of the test, but animals suffer immensely as well. I also don't believe that God should think it right to create people without their consent and throw them into a situation where they suffer and are expected to go through a test they didn't ask to be a part of. Although I do recall hearing a story about how Allah at the beginning brought all the humans together and showed them his existence, then told them about the impending test; of course our memory of the event was wiped away. However, it seems to me that if a person knew that they were going to spend their life AIDs ridden, malnourished and would later burn in hell for idol worshiping, they would have preferred to not exist.
I will admit that in 7th century Arabia Muhammed was definitely a bit of a reformer when it came to women's rights, but I don't think he went far enough for someone that was meant to be a messenger of God. It would have been nice for him to have made the testimony of one man equal one women in all situations, and it upsets me somewhat that he said women were deficient in intelligence in a hadith in Sahiih Bukhari.
Thats all I can think of at the moment.
I'm not sure if any of that made sense so if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask or PM me
Eternal punishment/punishment makes no sense to me.
I have no interest in participating in this thread, I am merely posting a reply to some misconceptions you've about the roles of Muslim women or their capabilities..
Again I repeat : I have no care in the world as to why you desire to believe or not believe, and this isn't intended for debate purposes.. merely to correct your views.. I don't like it when someone assumes for me that I am inferior or less intelligent.. emotionality and intelligence are completely separate spheres
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...bsection=WomenMuslim Women: Concept of Equality
By : Ansar Al-'Adl
Before discussing the concept of equality and how it relates to men and women in Islam, we need to make an important distinction. Many people who speak about equality presume that this should be reflected in treating two groups exactly the same. However, this is manifestly not always the proper thing to do. People's needs, strengths, abilities and disabilities need to be accommodated and considered as opposed to subjecting all to a single standard that may only be suitable for a few.
Thus we need to make a distinction between the superficial procedural equality and the substantive equality, which is justice. Most societies recognize that the important thing is not to focus on superficial procedural equality but to provide substantive equality for all its citizens, which treats them justly according to their needs and circumstances. Human beings favor substantive equality over procedural equality on a daily basis because we recognize that the former allows for justice. We accommodate in our workplaces, schools, and commercial areas, those with disabilities. We recognize the need for social services to take care of the impoverished in the society, while the wealthy are subject to taxes. We give extra attention and consideration to those experiencing emotional, psychological, or physical difficulties in their lives. All of this is substantive equality, equity and justice.
Men and Women
When it comes to men and women, everyone recognizes that there are inherent indisputable differences between men and women. They are not identical; men and women are naturally different in many ways. As a result, it does not follow logically to neglect those differences and advocate a single standard in matters where they are not the same. That may be procedural equality, but it is not substantive equality. For example, it would be unjust for a husband to suggest that his wife work equally as hard as he does when she is pregnant. Justice is served by recognizing the burden of pregnancy and the need for the husband to adjust accordingly. There are obvious biological differences - men experience neither menstrual periods nor childbirth while women generally live longer and have less health problems at an elderly age. The AARP Bulletin published an article on 8 health differences between men and women:
When it comes to health, differences between men and women extend well beyond their attitude toward getting annual checkups and needed treatment. In case men need a few reasons to make a doctor's appointment, they should consider the following:
* The life expectancy for men in the United States, 74.4, is a little more than five years shorter than for women, 79.8.
* Cancer kills men at a higher rate than it kills women.
* Of those killed by heart disease before age 65, 70 percent are men.
* Sleep apnea, a potentially serious disorder that causes breathing to stop and start repeatedly during sleep, is more common in men than women.
* Four times as many men die by suicide, the number-eight cause of death among men.
* Men are 50 percent more likely than women to develop coronary heart disease after age 40.
* Men have fewer infection-fighting T-cells than women.
* By the age of 100, women outnumber men eight to one.
In the olympics, men and women compete separately because of physiological differences. At the age of 18 years, the avergae male is 70.2 inches tall and weighs 144.8 pounds, while the average female is 64.4 inches tall and weighs 126.6 pounds. On the basis of weight, men have 50% greater total muscle mass than women. The average woman's heart is 25% smaller than that of the average man. Women carry about ten percentage points more fat than men (SOURCE).
In academics, women generally score higher than men in subjects such as languages and humanities while the opposite is true for mathematics and sciences. Both genders have unique strengths and capabilities. Concerning the pyschological differences between men and women, an article entitled Men and Women Really Do Think Differently quotes a recent neurological study:
Psychology professor Richard Haier of the University of California, Irvine led the research along with colleagues from the University of New Mexico. Their findings show that in general, men have nearly 6.5 times the amount of gray matter related to general intelligence compared with women, whereas women have nearly 10 times the amount of white matter related to intelligence compared to men. [...]In human brains, gray matter represents information processing centers, whereas white matter works to network these processing centers.
The results from this study may help explain why men and women excel at different types of tasks, said co-author and neuropsychologist Rex Jung of the University of New Mexico. For example, men tend to do better with tasks requiring more localized processing, such as mathematics, Jung said, while women are better at integrating and assimilating information from distributed gray-matter regions of the brain, which aids language skills. (SOURCE)
Another article published in Psychology Today describes the differences between men and women as 'insecapable':
When it comes to speaking and making hand movements that contribute to motor skill, the brain seems to be very focally organized in women compared with men. This may relate to the fact that girls generally speak earlier, articulate better and also have better fine motor control of the hands. Also, a larger proportion of women than men are right-handed, and unequivocally so. But when it comes to certain, more-abstract tasks, such as defining words, women's brains are more diffusely organized than men's, although men and women don't differ in overall vocabulary ability.
[...]Neuropsychologist Marian Diamond of the University of California at Berkeley, comparing cortical thickness in male and female rats, did find that the right cortex is thicker in males at most ages, while the left cortex is thicker in females but only at some ages (see "A Love Affair with the brain," Psychology Today, November 1984). [...]The fact seems inescapable that men and women do differ genetically, physiologically and in many important ways psychologically. (SOURCE)
Modern psychological research continues to unveil differences in men and women from the most obvious in behavioural patterns to those as trivial as picking out an angry face in in a crowd. In light of such manifest differences between the two genders, it is unsuitable for men and women to assume identical roles. As mentioned in a NY times article on Women's helath:
In contrast to the feminist premise that women can do anything men can do, science is demonstrating that women can do some things better, that they have many biological and cognitive advantages over men. Then again, there are some things that women don't do as well. (SOURCE)
God created us with different but complementary strengths and capabilities. A man does not need to become a woman nor vice versa in order to be successful.
What Islam Says
Islam recognizes that while men and women have some physical differences, spiritually they enjoy absolute equality before God. The Qur'an and Ahadith are unequivocal in stating that one's gender will have absolutely no bearing on their reward or punishment in the next life.
3:195 I shall not lose sight of the labor of any of you who labors in My way, be it man or woman; each of you is equal to the other
4:124 If any do deeds of righteousness,- be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them.
16:97 Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has Faith, verily, to him will We give a new Life, a life that is good and pure and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions.
40:40 "He that works evil will not be requited but by the like thereof: and he that works a righteous deed - whether man or woman - and is a Believer- such will enter the Garden (of Bliss): Therein will they have abundance without measure.
33:35 Indeed, the Muslim men and Muslim women - the believing men and believing women, the obedient men and obedient women, the truthful men and truthful women, the patient men and patient women, the humble men and humble women, the charitable men and charitable women, the fasting men and fasting women, the men who guard their private parts and the women who do so, and the men who remember Allah often and the women who do so - for all has Allah prepared forgiveness and a great reward.
49:13 O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you with Allah is the most pious. Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.
Therefore Islam openly declares that men and women have an equal status and value before God, and piety alone differentiates one individual from another.
In legal and practical aspects, the general rules are the same for men and women. Both have the same acts of worships, the same Islamic etiquette and manners, and are subject to the same legal penalties. But there are also many cases where the rulings are different. Women are exempted from fasting and prayer during their period. Men are prohibited from wearing gold and silk while women are allowed to, as it is women's nature to beautify themselves. Jumu'ah (Friday prayers) are obligatory for men but optional for women. Men must spend their money on the family but a woman's money is entirely her own to spend as she chooses. There are differences in clothing requirements as well, since the physical appearance of men and women is dissimilar. All of this is reflective of the natural differences between men and women. So in lesser fiqhî (jurisprudential) matters, Islam treats men and women according to their inherent differences as per substantive equality and in the interest of justice.
In conclusion, Islam affirms the absolute spiritual equality of men and women, and assigns both an equal rank before God. In Jurisprudential matters, Islam promotes the substantive equality of men and women, recognizes their unique strengths and capabilities, and rules accordingly protecting the rights of both.
eating to maintain life could potentially not make sense-- working to earn wages, could also not make sense.. responsibility for ones actions and family could make no sense-- exercising to keep ones body is almost punitive and makes no sense...format_quote Originally Posted by Tornado
but just because something doesn't make sense, should it mean there is no rational behind it!
I personally wouldn't equate someone who has studied all year with someone who has slacked off all year.. they both get what they have earned at the end...
someone who has studied hard and earned a 74.9% fails, while someone who studied eh so-so and received a 80% passes-- passing is from 75.. seems unfair to the first guy.. but there is a cut off point.. in everything in life, there is a system, structure, a balance and cut off points.
we all reap what we sow..
only difference is, Allah swt has assigned upon himself the law of Grace and mercy, gave 1% to this world and 99% for the day of recompense, and has told us in the Quran.. were you nothing, not even mentioned and here you are, and like the nothingness and darkness of the womb from which you emerged, you will emerge from the nothing and the darkness of the grave...
and each person whomever has done an 'atom's worth of goodness shall see it then and like wise an atom's worth of evil.. and will uphold his promise... as per suret az'zalzalah!
the word for intelligence in Arabic is zaka'a, nabaha, fatana
the word for 3aqal even as per dictionaryفــــعــــــــل جَعَلَهُ عاقِلًاmake reasonable or rational , bring to reason make reasonable or rational ..
The hadith therefore renders women more emotional.. and that is in fact scientifically true http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn2576
Women tend to be caregivers, more empathetic and more verbal: "Those traits are reflected in brain mechanisms."
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks