This woman gave up a life of peace and comfort to help disabled people in Afghanistan. She was murdered because she was Christian by people who believe (I presume) that they are acting in the interests if Islam and that Allah will rewarded them for their actions.
Would you agree with me that if I say that Allah will in fact punish them as murderers of this woman?
Would you agree with me if I said that any Muslim who (in their heart) supports such killings will similarly be punished?
this is disgusting , killing an innocent and especcialy someone who was helping the people and then say Allah(swt) will reward me?
And YOU are asking that to us ??
And as for the onewho fears standing in front of His Lord and restrainsthe soul from impure evil desires and lusts, verily, Paradise will be his abode [79:40-41]
I am still a bit surprised that he put that question across like that as if we would agree with the murder of an innocent person. Especially a noble woman who was helping our people.
Thinker did you put any thought into that post of yours Bro? Do you really think Muslims are some kind of Barbarians? You should know better than that Bro...
I agree, in Islam we are taught to tolerate other peoples beliefs and religions. Just because someone may not be Muslim does not mean they deserve to be murdered.
I don't even think you can call these type of people Muslims, a real Muslim who practices Islam knows what is right and what is wrong.
Allah knows best and he is the ultimate judge. Any atoms weight of good or bad will be judged on the day of judgment.
It was a reprehensible and sickening act. Taking the life of someone who devotes her time to humanitarian causes and to improve the lives of others, it's abominable.
This is explicitly forbidden in Islam. The prophet (pbuh) treated prisoners of war in the most humane manner and decreed that they must not be aggressed against. Yet, we have rabid heretics here who purport to further Islamic values and causes carrying out such acts. Rank hypocrisy this is.
more ignorance than hypocrisy, I'll send you PM to explain my meaning
I can see why you believe it is ignorance not hypocrisy, but i cannot agree with that.
Ignorance, with respect to this tragic incident, could be applied to these callous fanatics if they were not aware of the Quran'ic verdicts on such matters. For a group of "Islamic" militants that claims it's grievance is against the "political system", and not anyone else, to murder a humanitarian worker and actually have the effrontery to justify it by invoking the Qur'an and Hadith in a perverted manner is indeed hypocrisy. Not ignorance.
Ignorance, i would say is more to do with suicide bombers, even though they too kill people indiscriminately, but not individually in the manner in which this one was carried out.
I can see why you believe it is ignorance not hypocrisy, but i cannot agree with that.
Ignorance, with respect to this tragic incident, could be applied to these callous fanatics if they were not aware of the Quran'ic verdicts on such matters. For a group of "Islamic" militants that claims it's grievance is against the "political system", and not anyone else, to murder a humanitarian worker and actually have the effrontery to justify it by invoking the Qur'an and Hadith in a perverted manner is indeed hypocrisy. Not ignorance.
Ignorance, i would say is more to do with suicide bombers, even though they too kill people indiscriminately, but not individually in the manner in which this one was carried out.
there is something about you that frightens me now (but cant quite put my finger on it yet)
Why did I post this question – you question my motives (again)? Please stop presuming that I am trying to do some mischief; I am just trying to understand how you guys think.
I posted it for two reasons;
First; because it was such a shameful act I had hoped that it would have been posted here by a Muslim member saying just that, when it wasn’t I wondered whether all the members here knew of it and if they didn’t I believed they should know. (For those who think it would be unbelievable that some would not know of the incident I can tell you that my wife wouldn’t know of it as she refuses to watch news programmes saying it depresses her).
Second; as I have consistently said, I am here to learn and understand and I am still trying to understand how Muslims reconcile certain beliefs and actions. I believe that a good percentage of members of this forum are of Pakistani descent. I have formed a view that the difference between the Taliban and the north western tribes in Pakistan is minimal and that their extreme interpretation of and implementation of a Muslim way of life is moderated only gradually as you move towards the urban areas of Pakistan. So I wondered if there were some Pakistani Muslim amongst members here who could clarify how their kinsmen reconcile Islamic teachings with their actions. And, yes, I although I expect all of you here would condemn the killing I wondered if any of you might suggest that because there was a suggestion (denied) that the woman was promoting Christianity this might have been somehow mitigated the actions of the killers.
Of course most of you here would feel more closely affiliated to Martians than the Taliban but there some things that I just can’t reconcile. For example there was a question posted here some time back asking whether or what was forbidden in painting an image of a human being. I expressed my shock at (what to me) seemed bizarre. Later I remembered world outrage when the Taliban had blown up some national historical treasures of images carved in rock in Afghanistan. To me (a simple outsider) both beliefs / actions are ‘extreme;’ I can’t draw much of a difference between the reasoning on both those things.
Finally, during the period when the UK was fighting the IRA (or vice versa), the IRA was supported and comforted not just by those gave to them or spoke for them but by the thousands of ordinary people who just said nothing. It would have me feel better about Muslims on this forum if one of you had taken the initiative to register your distance with those who perpetrated this act and those that teach them that Allah will reward their actions.
...So I wondered if there were some Pakistani Muslim amongst members here who could clarify how their kinsmen reconcile Islamic teachings with their actions. And, yes, I although I expect all of you here would condemn the killing I wondered if any of you might suggest that because there was a suggestion (denied) that the woman was promoting Christianity this might have been somehow mitigated the actions of the killers.
As a pakistani muslim, I am ashamed of this horrific act. It is not supported on any grounds in the Quran, Hadith or sunnah. Murdering of civilians is a very serious sin under Islam as shown in Sura 5, verse 32:
''Because of this, we decreed for the Children of Israel that anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people. And anyone who spares a life, it shall be as if he spared the lives of all the people. Our messengers went to them with clear proofs and revelations, but most of them, after all this, are still transgressing''
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
This woman gave up a life of peace and comfort to help disabled people in Afghanistan. She was murdered because she was Christian by people who believe (I presume) that they are acting in the interests if Islam and that Allah will rewarded them for their actions.
Taking that course of action makes them murderers in my eyes.
Would you agree with me that if I say that Allah will in fact punish them as murderers of this woman?
Yes.
Would you agree with me if I said that any Muslim who (in their heart) supports such killings will similarly be punished?
I wonder if the Taliban sit about planning this stuff.
"Hmm, What can we do thats really evil today?"
"Bomb a market?"
"Nahh thats old hat, everyones totally used to it..."
"Stone a woman with her wrists exposed"
"Nope not evil enough...I'm getting bored with that, and despite the fact this is afganistan, we are running out of stones"
"Kill some infidels by beheading them and stick the vid up on Youtube?"
"Yawn...Well ...Sigh...I suppose so...but we need a twist"
"What about this one...she works with orphans and the disabled"
"Hmm...OK then, but I want Ideas people...Ideas...We need to start thinking outside the box, Tommorows atrocity better have something special, like lava spitting sharks torturing kittens or you lot are all fired"
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
I wonder if the Taliban sit about planning this stuff.
"Hmm, What can we do thats really evil today?"
"Bomb a market?"
"Nahh thats old hat, everyones totally used to it..."
"Stone a woman with her wrists exposed"
"Nope not evil enough...I'm getting bored with that, and despite the fact this is afganistan, we are running out of stones"
"Kill some infidels by beheading them and stick the vid up on Youtube?"
"Yawn...Well ...Sigh...I suppose so...but we need a twist"
"What about this one...she works with orphans and the disabled"
"Hmm...OK then, but I want Ideas people...Ideas...We need to start thinking outside the box, Tommorows atrocity better have something special, like lava spitting sharks torturing kittens or you lot are all fired"
I am assuming you are posting in terms of exaggerated sarcasm an your actual message is the Taliban has neither the time or resources to deliberately plan such act.
I too doubt this was planned by any organized group and was the act of individuals acting alone.
I agree with Bro Doorster, that it was an act born of ignorance and the perpetrators probably do believe they were doing the right thing. This is not typical Pakistani or typical of any people. It is the result of angry people acting without knowledge. That does not excuse their guilt as each person has a responsibility to learn the truth and should never follow any alleged human leader blindly.
I am assuming you are posting in terms of exaggerated sarcasm an your actual message is the Taliban has neither the time or resources to deliberately plan such act.
I too doubt this was planned by any organized group and was the act of individuals acting alone.
I agree with Bro Doorster, that it was an act born of ignorance and the perpetrators probably do believe they were doing the right thing. This is not typical Pakistani or typical of any people. It is the result of angry people acting without knowledge. That does not excuse their guilt as each person has a responsibility to learn the truth and should never follow any alleged human leader blindly.
The Taliban have admitted responsibility for it Woody, They are proud of what they have done. Organisation wise they are roughly 40000 strong with millions and millions of quids of aid coming from all over the muslim world and the very best in Organised terror working for them. To say they cant organise a simple drive by shooting in a country stuffed with guns against an unarmed target is a bit naive me old mate.
Last edited by barney; 10-22-2008 at 05:05 PM.
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
I wonder if the Taliban sit about planning this stuff.
"Hmm, What can we do thats really evil today?"
"Bomb a market?"
"Nahh thats old hat, everyones totally used to it..."
"Stone a woman with her wrists exposed"
"Nope not evil enough...I'm getting bored with that, and despite the fact this is afganistan, we are running out of stones"
"Kill some infidels by beheading them and stick the vid up on Youtube?"
"Yawn...Well ...Sigh...I suppose so...but we need a twist"
"What about this one...she works with orphans and the disabled"
"Hmm...OK then, but I want Ideas people...Ideas...We need to start thinking outside the box, Tommorows atrocity better have something special, like lava spitting sharks torturing kittens or you lot are all fired"
Ooooh, that conversation could so be the supporters of Mao, or wait, Stalin, no wait.. Hitler... Nah, too big ones, why not the Ku Klux Klan! Too big still. Hmmm... It could be anyone, just change some of the info about the place of the happening and occupations/race/religion of the victim, isn't that nice? Such a sweet world we live in.
Oooh and 'cause it's an evil act, who whose evil aswell, wouldn't wanna take the glory? Nah, darn, the Talibans were too fast. No worries, next time someone else will shine.
[/deep sarcasm mixed with real thoughts, I hope you'll get it]
I feel very sorry for the lady and the ones who know her, but most sorry for the ignorants who did it. though, I can't help but remember:
“The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic."
Why? 'Cause although I feel for the dead ones, I can't help but taste the irony.
Last edited by Al-Zaara; 10-22-2008 at 05:13 PM.
“If only I had checked myself”
—
Guy who wrecked himself
True leaders don't create followers...
.... They create new leaders.
The Taliban have admitted responsibility for it Woody, They are proud of what they have done. Organisation wise they are roughly 40000 strong with millions and millions of quids of aid coming from all over the muslim world and the very best in Organised terror working for them. To say they cant organise a simple drive by shooting in a country stuffed with guns against an unarmed target is a bit naive me old mate.
what a load of tosh! barney, you are getting ever so bold by the day!
I bet you had Saudi Arabia in mind re "the millions and millions" like you did say in harun yayah bashing thread.
but saudis would never hand out a penny without permissions from their parent country the UK.
the only source of incomes I can see for taliban are proceeds from general banditry (and ransoms from kidnapping victims)
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
The taliban are hidiously bad fighters. They are simply appauling. All they have is sheer rage and ignorance. They cant shoot, they cant fight for toffee. They take casulties at rates of 50:1. Their main victim is the innocent afgan civilian.
in one thread he says taliban were so crap that they could not fight for toffee, in another thread they are sophisticated planners with backing from all over the Muslim world
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