Polygamy among British Muslims

[Uthman]

Divorced last year, 30-year-old Amina is slowly rebuilding her confidence.

During the 10 years of her marriage, the mother of three says her husband tried to force her to accept his taking another wife.

She resisted, even though he said that it was the right thing to do in Islam, their shared religion.

"There was tremendous amounts of pressure from him," she says.

"It drops your confidence - you feel worthless, unworthy of someone's companionship. A failure as a wife, a failure as a person."

Even though she said no, she still has no idea whether he married someone else without telling her.

Mission impossible

Polygamy is practised by many different cultures and religions including Islam, Christianity and Judaism.

The rules within Islam are strictly defined and make it virtually impossible for a man to take more than one wife. A man should only marry women who are divorced, widowed, ill or if his first wife cannot have children.

A husband has to treat each wife equally, down to the time, money and emotional support he gives them.

In this country one married man is allowed to marry one woman. That must be the way for everybody who lives in this country
Baroness Sayeda Warsi

Polygamy is illegal under UK law, but religious marriages are not registered and so are not legally valid - a man might marry his first wife in a civil ceremony and then marry someone else in a religious one.

There are no official figures on the number of people in polygamous marriages in Britain, but Zlakha Ahmed, a project manager of Apna Haq, a woman's support service based in Rotherham, says that the number of polygamous marriages is growing.

In her experience, it is younger British-born Muslim men who are the driving force for the increase in numbers.

She says that women under pressure to enter into polygamous relationships often do not have anyone to turn to for help and that this can lead to mental health problems.

Religious figures within the Muslim community are also concerned about the number of men practicing polygamy. Mufti Barkatullah, a member of a UK Sharia Council, says he sees over 20 cases every year of women experiencing polygamy-related problems.

"Islamic law is very clear that it has to be done in the context of fairness, justice and fulfilling the duties, and in a situation where there is a dire need," he says.

According to Mr Barkatullah, the rules are so strict that practicing polygamy is ''mission impossible'' in most cases.

The really positive point is that I know I have time for myself
Doha, wife in a polygamous marriage

"They end up violating Sharia law - committing gross inequality and injustices with their various spouses, neglecting their duties towards their dependents and committing forgery, hypocrisy and constant lies," he says.

According to Mufti Barkatullah, Imams are misled by men who do not admit to having other wives.

My co-wife

But some women say that if practiced according to the strict guidelines of Islam, polygamy can be a positive experience and the answer to many women's needs.

Doha, a 47-year-old who has been in a polygamous marriage for 15 years, was divorced with four children when she met her husband and agreed to be his second wife. Both wives know each other, but have separate houses and lives.

Her husband spends alternative nights with each of his wives, and is equal in his financial support - although he does not buy exactly the same luxuries for each wife.

"Maybe I would prefer to have books and my sister wife, my co-wife, would prefer to have a dress bought for her," says Doha.

"The really positive point is that I know I have time for myself. I know that if I want to work or study, to have friends come around or to visit people to go away on holiday that I can do that, I have that time in my life."

But for Baroness Sayeda Warsi, shadow minister for community cohesion, the loophole that allows multiple religious marriages is a legal anomaly that needs looking at.

"We have just avoided discussing or dealing with this matter head on," she says.

"There has to be a culture change. That culture change has to be brought about by policy makers taking a very clear stance on this issue.

"In this country one married man is allowed to marry one woman. That is the way and that must be the way for everybody who lives in this country."

Source

[Uthman]

Comment by Brian Whitaker:

Warsi wades in

Is there a serious problem with polygamy in the UK, or is the Baroness's attack simply cultural point-scoring?

Following her attacks on the qat-chewing habits of Britain's Somali and Yemeni communities, Baroness Warsi – who represents the acceptable face of Islam in the Conservative party – has turned her attention to polygamy.

"In this country, one married man is allowed to marry one woman. And that must be the way for everyone who lives in this country," she says.

But why? Baroness Warsi doesn't explain.

Polygamous marriages can certainly result in the exploitation of women, though that can happen in ordinary marriages, too. If a man wants to have more than one wife, or a woman to have more than one husband, and everyone enters into the arrangement openly and voluntarily, what exactly is wrong with that?

A man can live with two women in Britain perfectly legally, but if he marries them both it's a crime punishable by up to seven years in jail. At least, it is a crime if they marry in Britain. If they all go abroad to a country where polygamy is legal, get married and then come back to Britain, there's no problem. The marriage(s) will be officially recognised.

Lady Warsi, the shadow minister for community cohesion, complains about a "failure" by policymakers to take the issue of polygamy seriously: "We've just avoided either discussing or dealing with this matter head on."

It's hard to see why she's getting so steamed up about it – except, of course, that it panders to the usual Tory line about "traditional" family values and "un-British" cultural practices.

In fact, alongside the tens of millions of one-husband-one-wife marriages, plus growing numbers of same-sex marriages, there are thought to be fewer than 1,000 polygamous marriages in Britain – so even if some people think it's a problem it certainly isn't a huge one.

The government is rather cagey about the issue but, short of breaking up polygamous marriages conducted legally abroad, it has no option but to recognise them. Naturally, these families are entitled to welfare benefits just like others – which opens the door for complaints from the "morally outraged" brigade that the government is subsidising polygamy.

Source

[- Qatada -]

There's a famous story illustrating this subtle legal point (i.e. that a man can have as much girlfriends as he wants but he can't have more than one wife [with which he would have a responsibility of looking after her, providing for her etc])

...a man was confronted by the authorities in Algeria (it may have been Tunisia) because he had two wives (which was a crime)...so he answered, with regard to the second wife, 'she's just my girlfriend'. And so they left him alone

[S_87]

. A man should only marry women who are divorced, widowed, ill or if his first wife cannot have children.

what?

if ms warsi wants to tackle polygamy marriages maybe first she should ban both men and women having affairs outside their marriages, males and females having open relationships where neither of them are recognised legally and single women getting pregnant and raising kids alone...

[Uthman]

. A man should only marry women who are divorced, widowed, ill or if his first wife cannot have children.

what?

Yeah, I don't remember hearing that anywhere. Where is that from?

[Snowflake]

A man should only marry women who are divorced, widowed, ill or if his first wife cannot have children.

A man can marry if he likes, two , three or four, according to the Quran (An Nisa: 3) without the reasons quoted above. This permissability is one of the virtues of Shariah and benefits men women at all times, especially when you consider that the number of women exceeds those of men and most of these sisters will not be widowed or divorced. So it is permissable for men to marry more than one wife regardless. The only condition is that he must treat them all fairly.

[Al-Zaara]

The only condition is that he must treat them all fairly.

The only and the most difficult condition one could possibly have in such a situation.
Here we have to define "fairness" for it won't fit every person's definition. Or every state's. Or every Muslim's. You get my drift.

[Mr. Baldy]

"Islamic law is very clear that it has to be done in the context of fairness, justice and fulfilling the duties, and in a situation where there is a dire need," he says.

According to Mr Barkatullah, the rules are so strict that practicing polygamy is ''mission impossible'' in most cases.

A dire need? Mission impossible? hmm...

"In this country one married man is allowed to marry one woman. That is the way and that must be the way for everybody who lives in this country."

But in this country we can have one wife and many girlfriends

[Caller الداعي]

i think sayeda warsi should debate on more important issues than trying to touch Allahs law.

[KAding]

I have no real problem with polygamy, as long as it is all voluntary and as long as men and women are equal by law, so that one woman can also have several men.

[KAding]

"In this country one married man is allowed to marry one woman. That is the way and that must be the way for everybody who lives in this country."

But in this country we can have one wife and many girlfriends

Thats because marriage in our society isn't at all about sex, unlike in Islamic law. Marriage is first and foremost a legal contract that organizes the rights between two individuals. Of course it is obvious that you are not supposed to cheat on your partner, but I think that is implicit in any romantic relationship, regardless if it is between married people or not. Whether you can or cannot have extramarital sex is not part of the marriage contract. It might be part of the personal vows between two new-weds, but that is a personal matter, no different from the implicit or explicit vows between a girlfriend and boyfriend.

Besides, we need to be clear what we are talking about here. What one "can do" and what is the "norm" are of course different things. Of course one can have "one wife and many girlfriends", but that doesn't mean that that is the "norm". However you put it, it is not seen as acceptable behavior, even in the "decadent" West. Even in a country that completely implements Islamic law it would be possible to have "one wife and many girlfriends". It might not be legal (or would it be, thinking of concubines here?), but it is certainly something one "can do".

[IbnAbdulHakim]

peopel over-exagerate the difficulty of being fair IN MY HONEST OPINION

yes its a struggle, yes its difficult but its not impossible for every human being in this day and age.

if a father can raise 9 kids and keep his wife happy at the same time (common amongst many families) why cant he keep two wives happy?

[Mr. Baldy]

Thats because marriage in our society isn't at all about sex, unlike in Islamic law. Marriage is first and foremost a legal contract that organizes the rights between two individuals. Of course it is obvious that you are not supposed to cheat on your partner, but I think that is implicit in any romantic relationship, regardless if it is between married people or not. Whether you can or cannot have extramarital sex is not part of the marriage contract. It might be part of the personal vows between two new-weds, but that is a personal matter, no different from the implicit or explicit vows between a girlfriend and boyfriend.

Since when was an marriage in Islam all about sex? A marriage in Islam is about companionship, family, deen, expanding and continuing the Ummah, and yes a halal sexual relationship between a Muslim man and woman. If your gonna make outrageous claims like that, please give a source.

[KAding]

Since when was an marriage in Islam all about sex? A marriage in Islam is about companionship, family, deen, expanding and continuing the Ummah, and yes a halal sexual relationship between a Muslim man and woman. If your gonna make outrageous claims like that, please give a source.

I think you are misreading me. I said "marriage in our society isn't at all about sex", not "marriage in Islam is all about sex"! Of course that isn't true!!!

In the West (my country at least) sex and marriage have been decoupled. It is normal to have premarital sex and relationships. Which why I said marriage here "isn't about sex". You don't get married as virgins and then consummate the marriage. While in Islam the two are clearly linked, one cannot normally have sex without a marriage! Of course people marry for a whole host of reasons, but at least sexual relationships can only exist inside marriage.

I hope it is clearer now, it was not at all a criticism of marriage as an institution in Islam.

The point I was trying to make is that your comment that "in this country we can have one wife and many girlfriends" has nothing to do with marriage. Legally it is equally true that "in this country we can have multiple girlfriends". Whether one is or isn't married isn't relevant. Legally cheating upon a girlfriend or wife isn't punishable, but morally it is frowned upon regardless if there is a marriage or not.

[Mr. Baldy]

I think you are misreading me. I said "marriage in our society isn't at all about sex", not "marriage in Islam is all about sex"! Of course that isn't true!!!

In the West (my country at least) sex and marriage have been decoupled. It is normal to have premarital sex and relationships. Which why I said marriage here "isn't about sex". You don't get married as virgins and then consummate the marriage. While in Islam the two are clearly linked, one cannot normally have sex without a marriage! Of course people marry for a whole host of reasons, but at least sexual relationships can only exist inside marriage.

I hope it is clearer now, it was not at all a criticism of marriage as an institution in Islam.

The point I was trying to make is that your comment that "in this country we can have one wife and many girlfriends" has nothing to do with marriage. Legally it is equally true that "in this country we can have multiple girlfriends". Whether one is or isn't married isn't relevant. Legally cheating upon a girlfriend or wife isn't punishable, but morally it is frowned upon regardless if there is a marriage or not.

Well I'm sorry for misinterpreting your comment, and thank you for clearing that up for me.

My point regarding the 'we can have many girlfriends' is that it seems that 'Baroness' Warsi and co. seem to think that the problems in society regarding marital abuse originate from polygamy. While I agree that some abuse the right of a man to have four wives in Islam, these ideas do not originate from Islam, rather they originate from a western society which upholds certain corrupt ideas about relationships, i.e. many extra-marital partners are allowed, pre-marital sex is acceptable. These are the same ideas which lead to teenage pregnancies (the most recent case a 13 year old father!) widespread STD's, among other social ill's. You can outlaw polygamous marriages completley, this is not going to end abuse in marriages. The majority of domestic abuse cases involve a drunken and violent father, and these cases are in no way sensationalised by the media as the case of polygomous marriages are. I used the 'phrase' 'we can have many girlfriends' as an umbrella for all the corupt mentalities this society produces.

[Uthman]

Bear in mind that Baroness Warsi represents the Conservatives, a political party which emphasises and calls for traditional British family values.

[aamirsaab]

I have no real problem with polygamy, as long as it is all voluntary and as long as men and women are equal by law, so that one woman can also have several men.

You do realise that if a women needs to marry twice, it means the economy of that country as well as the men, are crap.

I mentioned this on another thread, polyandery has NO benefit to society or anyone. Why? because if the one man cannot support financially one wife, then there is something seriously wrong. Polyandery also leads to population stagnation.

Polygamy on the other hand occurs when the male can provide for more than one wife. Benefit to society is population growth. That is one of the reasons why Islam allows polygamy.

Now, you could argue that men aren't the only breadwinners in society anymore. This is true, but psychologically speaking, women are attracted to wealth because it means the husband can provide/look after for them. It's psychological - Islam understands that and works with it.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

I have no real problem with polygamy, as long as it is all voluntary and as long as men and women are equal by law, so that one woman can also have several men.

with all due respect, i find that extremely nauseating.
first, the men who practice that should be shot (not literally, figure of speech) as they do have a strong sense of male pride. i mean men compete with each other, innit. i know that the whole intermingling thingee is normal for some societies, but sheesh, even then i think most men would still be against their wifeys even looking at another dude in that way

and secondly, how is she going to know who the father of her baby is...

[KAding]

You do realise that if a women needs to marry twice, it means the economy of that country as well as the men, are crap.

This idea of the man supporting the wife is archaic from my point of view. The only thing that matters is that they as a collective (men and wife) can support their own household. I don't understand why this would imply the men or the economy are crap? Surely such a household would generally have more money to spend than a traditional marriage, not less?

Besides, for me this isn't about needs, it is about rights. If several consenting adults wish to share a household, their possesions and maybe even their bed than that is their business.

I mentioned this on another thread, polyandery has NO benefit to society or anyone. Why? because if the one man cannot support financially one wife, then there is something seriously wrong. Polyandery also leads to population stagnation.

Again, I'm not basing my position on what would be best for society, but what I think these individuals should be free to do. Even from the point of view of 'society', however, I think you are wrong. I'm not promoting a society based on just polyandry, I'm promoting a society in which monogamy, polygamy or polyandry can all exist together (hetrosexual or homosexual). I think it is a very safe bet that the overwhelming majority of marriages will end up being hetrosexual and monogamous, while a small minority will be either polygamous, polyandrous or homosexual. Seems to me that forbidding polyandry and yet allowing polygamy would be very much destabilizing? After all, it would result in more men being unable to find a partner, since more women will be tied up in polygamous relationships. If there is one thing that is "unhealthy" for society, it is large groups of sexually frustrated young men that can't find a partner .

Either way, IMHO it would be unacceptable for the state to disallow women to have multiple marriage partners, while men are allowed to do so. This would be discriminatory!

Polygamy on the other hand occurs when the male can provide for more than one wife. Benefit to society is population growth. That is one of the reasons why Islam allows polygamy.

Population growth is not at all a "benefit to society"! Where did you get that idea? 7 billion people seems plenty to me! The only countries that have high population growth are dirt poor! All we need is for the existing population to be replaced, which means about 2.1 children per woman . But again, if you allow both polyandry and polygamy you'd expect these two to pretty much even each other out. Polygamous families might produce more offspring and polyandrous less, taken together they probably won't be very different from normal monogamous families.

Now, you could argue that men aren't the only breadwinners in society anymore. This is true, but psychologically speaking, women are attracted to wealth because it means the husband can provide/look after for them. It's psychological - Islam understands that and works with it.

In the end it is just about love, not about being "attracted to wealth" IMHO. This just doesn't sound like a very compelling argument against polyandry? Surely if women are "attracted to wealth" they would be interested in an polyandrous marriage since that would mean the wealth of several men can be used to satisfy that psychological craving? Why doesn't Islam "work with that" knowledge?

Regardless, in the end we are IMHO just talking about a fundamental right of every individual (man or woman) to organize their life as they see fit. If all adults in a group accept the legal consequences of a marriage and have no issues with sharing a bed, than I just don't see why anyone should deny them that right, let alone me! Especially not based on these thin and unconvincing arguments.

[KAding]

with all due respect, i find that extremely nauseating.
first, the men who practice that should be shot as they do have a strong sense of male pride.

Err. With all due respect, but this is ridiculous. Male pride? This male pride should make it impossible to share a partner supposedly? I am sorry, but I don't think it makes any sense to base my moral code on superficial, unreasonable and bestial emotions of "pride" and "honor". If some people aren't so superficial and greedy to want to own their partner only for themselves, then all the more power to them! If they can extend their love to all members of the family, then all the more power to them!

I am not sure if I could do it, but if some people wish to do so and therefore want to start a polyandrous or polygamous relationship, then I have no issues with that. It isn't my business anyway.

i mean men compete with each other, innit. i know that the whole intermingling thingee is normal for some societies, but sheesh, even then i think most men would still be against their wifeys even looking at another dude in that way

Well, a majority of men probably work that way, yes. But that masculine and macho behavior is nothing to be proud of! And it is not a good argument to allow others who are less jealously-inclined and more enlightened to organize their life in another way if they wish to do so.

and secondly, how is she going to know who the father of her baby is...

Well, from my view a polyandrous marriage becomes one collective, one household, so it shouldn't really matter. Maybe after a divorce or some conflict you can do a DNA test to figure it out, if you really insist.