The People of the Book are following the truth?!

[Follower]

But they do have to pay a tax?!

9:29

Fight/kill those who do not believe with God and nor the Day the Last/Resurrection Day, and do not forbid/prohibit what God and His messenger forbid/prohibited, and do not take/adopt a religion the correct/right religion from those who were given/brought The Book , until they give/hand over the fee paid by non-Moslems living in a Moslem society from a hand, and they are subservient/humiliated .

do not take/adopt a religion the correct/right religion from those who were given/brought The Book

Why would Msulims be ordered to not follow a path that is right?

['Abd-al Latif]

The religion of the People of the Book isn't the complete truth, however it has some information about Allah in their scriptures which hasn't been changed by man.

The only path that has no ambiguity or crookedness is the path of Islam, all other paths will lead one astray.

[doorster]

The religion of the People of the Book isn't the complete truth, however it has some information about Allah in their scriptures which hasn't been changed by man.

The only path that has no ambiguity or crookedness is the path of Islam, all other paths will lead one astray.

who approved his distortions and why?

another question:

does a literal translation of a sentence from one language to another convey the intended meaning? is sentence structure in Arabic same as its equivalent in English? is Arabic Grammar exact replica of Arabic Grammar?
.................................................. .....................................

But they do have to pay a tax?!

9:29

Fight/kill those who do not believe with God and nor the Day the Last/Resurrection Day, and do not forbid/prohibit what God and His messenger forbid/prohibited, anddo not take/adopt a religion the correct/right religion from those who were given/brought The Book , until they give/hand over the fee paid by non-Moslems living in a Moslem society from a hand, and they are subservient/humiliated .

do not take/adopt a religion the correct/right religion from those who were given/brought The Book

Why would Msulims be ordered to not follow a path that is right?

according to a Pakistani linguist (not a great scholar but expert in old Arabic) actual intended meaning is:

Fight against those who reject belief in Allah and the Last Day, and hold not Sacred what Allah and His Messenger have declared Sacred, nor acknowledge the Divine System, among those who received the Scripture, until they pay the tax, with willing submission, and feel themselves subjects of the State as law-abiding citizens. As citizens of the State they must pay taxes, as the Muslims contribute toward the Just Economic Order through Zakat. In return, the State will guarantee them internal and external security, and equal rights of citizenship. The tax on them will always be less than the tax (Zakat) on Muslims, and will be payable only by the able-bodied Non-Muslim citizens of the State. In addition, these able-bodied citizens would be exempt from military service which is compulsory duty for Muslims.

[GreyKode]

Is this follower guy playing dumb or what?That's not what the verse means.
"ALLA ZEENA LA YADINUNA DEEN AL HAQQ" it means the ones who don't follow the right religion.

[aamirsaab]

But they do have to pay a tax?!

9:29

Fight/kill those who do not believe with God and nor the Day the Last/Resurrection Day, and do not forbid/prohibit what God and His messenger forbid/prohibited, and do not take/adopt a religion the correct/right religion from those who were given/brought The Book , until they give/hand over the fee paid by non-Moslems living in a Moslem society from a hand, and they are subservient/humiliated .

do not take/adopt a religion the correct/right religion from those who were given/brought The Book

Why would Msulims be ordered to not follow a path that is right?

Here's the actual verse:
9: 29
''You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.''

See the difference in the two translations? One makes sense (mine) the other doesn't (yours). So your ''question'' isn't a question at all. (take especial note of the BOLDED bit - it does not say what you originally claimed)

Edit: are you copying and pasting these 'ayats' from hate sites? If so, you really should stop that. It's annoying and makes you look silly.

[coddles76]

But they do have to pay a tax?!

9:29

Fight/kill those who do not believe with God and nor the Day the Last/Resurrection Day, and do not forbid/prohibit what God and His messenger forbid/prohibited, and do not take/adopt a religion the correct/right religion from those who were given/brought The Book , until they give/hand over the fee paid by non-Moslems living in a Moslem society from a hand, and they are subservient/humiliated .

do not take/adopt a religion the correct/right religion from those who were given/brought The Book

Why would Msulims be ordered to not follow a path that is right?

I guess your user ID explains alot. You follow the pack of ants blindly without actually using your faculty of reasoning which was given to you by your creator and to be utilised intelligent/wise manner. Try to open your heart to reasoning and set aside all what you hear from others and just sit down one day and allow your brain energy to take control.

[Follower]

No coddles you are mis interpreting this verse, it is:

Fight/kill those who do not believe with God

Fight/kill those who do not believen in the Day the Last/Resurrection Day

Fight/kill those who do not believe and do not forbid/prohibit what God and His messenger forbid/prohibited,

Fight/kill those who do not believe and do not take/adopt a religion the correct/right religion from those who were given/brought The Book

[Follower]

Do you see now how easily verses can be mis-interpreted?

Abdallatif - went right along with it the verses, twisting it to mean that the People of the Book follow: The religion of the People of the Book isn't the complete truth, however it has some information about Allah in their scriptures which hasn't been changed by man.

aamirsaab-

I am looking for literal meanings of the verses. The site I am using is:

http://www.yaqb.org/http://www.yaqb.org/

I don't think this is a hate site.

[aamirsaab]

...
aamirsaab-

I am looking for literal meanings of the verses. The site I am using is:

http://www.yaqb.org/http://www.yaqb.org/

I don't think this is a hate site.

Literal translation will only confuse you (as is the case!). That site has several translations listed - and they all correspond with the ony I gave. There is no issue here.

[YusufNoor]

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

here are a few translations of 9:29:

Muhsin Khan: Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Pickthal: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
Shakir: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
Sahih International: Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
Dr. Ghali: Fight the ones who do not believe in Allah nor in the Last Day, and do not prohibit whatever Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, and do not practice (Literally: to have as a religion) the religion of Truth-from among the ones to whom the Book was brought-until they give the tax out of hand (i.e., by a ready money payment, or in token of submission) and have been belittled..

they are taken from this site:

http://quran.islamicnetwork.com/

they clearly identify "Christians: as:

Muhsin Khan: those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam)

Pickthal: [who] follow not the Religion of Truth

Shakir: nor [do they] follow the religion of truth,

Sahih International: who do not adopt the religion of truth

Dr. Ghali: and [who] do not practice (Literally: to have as a religion) the religion of Truth

thus we can rule them out as believers of Truth!

[YusufNoor]

Do you see now how easily verses can be mis-interpreted?

Abdallatif - went right along with it the verses, twisting it to mean that the People of the Book follow: The religion of the People of the Book isn't the complete truth, however it has some information about Allah in their scriptures which hasn't been changed by man.

aamirsaab-

I am looking for literal meanings of the verses. The site I am using is:

http://www.yaqb.org/http://www.yaqb.org/

I don't think this is a hate site.

this site has at least 2 translations by Kafr who claim to Muslim:

Khalifa and Maulana_Ali as well as few i haven't heard of. i recommend NOT using it. use the one i posted instead

[doorster]

this site has at least 2 translations by Kafr who claim to Muslim:

Khalifa and Maulana_Ali as well as few i haven't heard of. i recommend NOT using it. use the one i posted instead

http://islamawakened.com/quran/caa.html#Khalifa

[Follower]

I need a site that has the literal words, not translated by anyone. Are you saying that the literal words of the Quran can be easily changed/twisted?

009.029
Fight/kill those who do not believe with God and nor the Day the Last/Resurrection Day, and do not forbid/prohibit what God and His messenger forbid/prohibited, and do not take/adopt a religion the correct/right religion from those who were given/brought The Book , until they give/hand over the fee paid by non-Moslems living in a Moslem society from a hand, and they are subservient/humiliated.

YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Of those that were given the Book fight the ones that don't follow it.

Fight against the people given the book that don't follow their own scripture [Quran was not yet written].

and tax only those you fight.

We know the People of the Book are the Christians because of the following verse:

005.068
Say: "You The Book's people, you are not on a thing, until you keep up the Torah/Old Testament and the Bible/New Testament , and what was descended to you from your (P) Lord." And what was descended to you (S/M) from your Lord increases (E) many of them tyranny/arrogance, and disbelief, so do not grieve/sadden on the nation, the disbelieving.
YUSUFALI: Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over people without Faith.
PICKTHAL: Say O People of the Scripture! Ye have naught till ye observe the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto you from your Lord. That which is revealed unto thee from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them. But grieve not for the disbelieving folk.
SHAKIR: Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people.

[Zafran]

salaam

If you read it gives you the things the people of the book dont believe - one of the things is they dont follow the religion of truth.

secodaly the bible (a collection of 66/73 books) it is not the Injeel or the Torah the Quran is talking about.


This is also what the Quran says about the christains:

[5.14] And with those who say, We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of, therefore We excited among them enmity and hatred to the day of resurrection; and Allah will inform them of what they did.

so it preety clear the christains are not in the religion of truth - furthermore also verses which warn about son of God - saying God is 3 etc which shows clearly that christainty is an astrayed religion according to the Quran.

peace

[Follower]

Zapfran - The Injeel discussed in the Quran are the Books Matthew, Mark, Luke and John the first 4 books of the New Testament and the Torah is Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy the first part of the Old Testament.

Those nine books of the Holy Bible have always been considered Scripture from GOD and a part of the Bible.

Christians do not say that GOD is 3 gods. Christians believe in One True GOD. Our concept of that One True GOD is just different then the Muslims.

The 5.14 verse just means that there are not following the right path- nothing about their scritpures.

Basically saying the same thing that 9:29 is saying - Kill those that have given the Book and don't follow it.

You are saying kill them whether they follow the Book given by GOD or don't follow the Book given by GOD?

[Follower]

005.066
YUSUFALI: If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: but many of them follow a course that is evil.
PICKTHAL: If they had observed the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto them from their Lord, they would surely have been nourished from above them and from beneath their feet. Among them there are people who are moderate, but many of them are of evil conduct.
SHAKIR: And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do
Literal:
And if that they took care of the Torah/Old Testament, and the Bible/New Testament and what was descended to them from their Lord, they would have eaten from above them and from below their feet; from them a nation economizing/moderate, and many from them what they were making/doing became bad/evil/harmful

[Zafran]

Zapfran - The Injeel discussed in the Quran are the Books Matthew, Mark, Luke and John the first 4 books of the New Testament and the Torah is Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy the first part of the Old Testament.

Those nine books of the Holy Bible have always been considered Scripture from GOD and a part of the Bible.

Christians do not say that GOD is 3 gods. Christians believe in One True GOD. Our concept of that One True GOD is just different then the Muslims.

The 5.14 verse just means that there are not following the right path- nothing about their scritpures.

Basically saying the same thing that 9:29 is saying - Kill those that have given the Book and don't follow it.

You are saying kill them whether they follow the Book given by GOD or don't follow the Book given by GOD?

salaam

no the Injeel is a specific book given to Jesus pbuh not a book made 300 years after his life.

[5.46] And We sent, following in their footsteps (Prophet) Jesus, the son
of Mary, confirming that which was before him in the Torah, and gave him
the Gospel, in which there is guidance and light, confirming that which was
before him in the Torah, a guide and an admonition to the cautious.


The torah is the book Moses pbuh had not the so called Torah they have today - how do we know this because deutornomy describes Moses pbuh being buried! - how can this book be the book given Moses pbuh.

I didnt say christains say God is 3 Gods - but that christains believe GOD(singular) is 3 (trinity)

No 5:14 shows you have forgotton your CONVENANT - the real teachings of christ

[5.14] And with those who say, We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of, therefore We excited among them enmity and hatred to the day of resurrection; and Allah will inform them of what they did.

Read 9:29 it context it doesnt say say kill the christains for not following the book.

[Zafran]

005.066
YUSUFALI: If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: but many of them follow a course that is evil.
PICKTHAL: If they had observed the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto them from their Lord, they would surely have been nourished from above them and from beneath their feet. Among them there are people who are moderate, but many of them are of evil conduct.
SHAKIR: And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do
Literal:
And if that they took care of the Torah/Old Testament, and the Bible/New Testament and what was descended to them from their Lord, they would have eaten from above them and from below their feet; from them a nation economizing/moderate, and many from them what they were making/doing became bad/evil/harmful

[5.65] If the People of the Book had believed and kept from evil, We would
pardon them their sins and admit them to the Gardens of Delight.
[5.66] If they had established the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent
down to them from their Lord they would be eating from above them and from
beneath their feet. Some of them are a righteous nation; but many of them
evil is what they do.

As you can clearly see IF THEY HAD - which shows past tense - you didnt hold to the torah or Injeel according to the Quran.

peace.

[Zafran]

salaam

heres the messege of the Quran to christains:

4.171] People of the Book, do not exaggerate your religion. Do not say
about Allah except the truth. Indeed, the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, is
only a Messenger (and Prophet) of Allah, and His Word (Be) which He gave to
Mary, and a (created) spirit by Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers
and do not say: 'Trinity. '
Refrain, it is better for you. Allah is only One God. Exaltations to Him
that He should have son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in
the earth, it is sufficient that Allah is the Guardian.


peace

[Robalo]

[QUOTE=Zafran;1116346]salaam

no the Injeel is a specific book given to Jesus pbuh not a book made 300 years after his life.

QUOTE]

Good morning. Being new here I was reading some posts and I wanted to contribute and address the bold statement in the above quote....

Can you please clarify what your statement means, because there was no Injeel given to Christ.

Definition of Injil is the New Testament.

http://www.--------------/about/resources/glossary.html

The NT books of Matthew, Luke, Mark and John were written after the death of Jesus so therefore the Injil did not exist to be given to Christ.

GOSPEL
INJIL
Ar: Injil / Injeel
Gk: Evangelion, meaning the Good News.

In English, it went from "Godspel" to "Gospel". Arabic Injil is said to have come from Greek to Syriac to Arabic
(Arthur Jeffery, The Foreign Vocabulary of the Quran, pp. 71-72, quoted by Abdul Haqq, p. 60).

Looking forward to your reply...

Thank you and May God Bless Us, Everyone!
Robalo