But the real question is which loyalty comes first, god or country. Would they turn against their country and fellow citizens if they thought their God told them to. Isn't that was the europeans fear about the muslims?
From BBCEuropean Muslims have much more loyalty to the countries they live in than is generally believed, a survey says.
The report by Gallup and the Coexist Foundation says 77% of British Muslims identified with the UK, compared with 50% of the general public.
There was a similar finding in Germany, the survey says.
The authors say their report counters a commonly-held view that measures to combat Islamic militancy may have alienated many European Muslims.
"This research shows that many of the assumptions about Muslims and integration are wide of the mark," said Dalia Mogahed of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies and co-author of the report.
"European Muslims want to be part of the wider community and contribute even more to society," she said.
The findings of the report are surprising, because since the 11 September attacks in the US commentators have repeatedly questioned the loyalties of European Muslims to the countries they live in, the BBC's Rob Broomby says.
The research - which focused mainly on European Muslims in Britain, France and Germany - polled around 500 Muslims and 1,000 members of the general public in each country.
'Isolated'
In Britain, the report found that more than three-quarters of Muslims identified with the country and its institutions - far more even than the general population did.
But whereas the vast majority of British Muslims (82%) felt Muslims were loyal citizens, the general public remained suspicious of them.
In Germany, 40% of Muslims identified with the country against 32% of the wider public.
German Muslims were also found far more likely than the general public to have confidence in the judicial system, financial institutions and the honesty of elections.
They had higher levels of confidence in their national government than society as a whole, but much less faith in the media.
In France, 52% of Muslims identified with the country, compared with 55% of the general public.
However, the report found that French Muslims had much less confidence in the nation's institutions, including police.
The survey also said that European Muslims felt far more isolated than those living in the United States and Canada.
But the real question is which loyalty comes first, god or country. Would they turn against their country and fellow citizens if they thought their God told them to. Isn't that was the europeans fear about the muslims?
Last edited by Pygoscelis; 05-07-2009 at 11:17 PM.
To you what comes first, country or justice.format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Greetings,
One could put this question to a member of any religion. In fact, it could be put to anyone.format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
The truth is yes us muslims would.
i've always wondered. people say that europeans liberal values make it such a welcoming place.
but i can say without a doubt that muslims in america are treated way better than in europe. in europe, it seems that muslims all live in muslim neighborhoods and dont get out too much with the non-muslims. and vice versa.
but in the USA, almost all of us live in non muslim dominated areas. yet we all seem to get along with our neighbors, and we work with non muslims and have no problems. i see women with hijabs walking with women without hijabs. this seems to intend muslims friends with non muslims and vice versa.
but when i have been to europe i dont see this as much. it seems most muslims chill with other muslims and most non with other non muslims.
i dont know but i think that the USA is more tolerant to muslims than europe. i wish muslims would quit choosing europe as their destination when the europeans seem to try to disenfranchise with them.
sure many muslims are loyal to their country and enjoy the freedoms they have. but of course never think that we agree with our countries on all issues. we disagree prevalently on many.
The natural answer should be justice without any doubt. But again question arises is what is justice by muslim POV. For instance is it okay for a muslim to swear loyalty to any kufr regiem? Is it okay for a muslim to choose kufr living conditions (wine, nakedness, and what not), inspite of Islamic life? Should a muslim not strive for establishing the laws of ALLAH in kufr lands? Arnt a muslim obiliged to live under protest in such lands and try to take over? Should a muslim not be encouraged to demolish all places of worship which is dedicated to anyone besides ALLAH?format_quote Originally Posted by GreyKode
There are many such questions which makes it litrally impossible for a muslim to live in any europian or western country and equally impossible to non muslims not to cast their doubts over muslims.
Peace.
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
What brother Muhammad said is true, that question could be asked to anyone. And it doesn't even have to be a choice of God vs. Country, or Country vs. Justice; people have priorities, and no matter how much of a patriot someone may seem to be, sometimes things take precedent to their loyalty to their country. It could be something we don't even take into consideration when thinking about this issue, but to them it could be huge, for example their family, or their music/art/etc. or knowledge, etc.
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...y-want-35.html
Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts of the country, a survey reveals today.
The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.
There are lies, **** lies and statistics; are there lies, **** lies and polls?
As a muslim I want to live under Islamic Law and you can't expect any practicing Muslim to say otherwise.format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
Do you expect fish to live without water? Why would you expect Muslims to want anything other then Islamic Law? You always seem to be surprised when Muslims call for Islamic Law to be implimented.
Now as for the Suicide bomers, I really do wonder sometimes where you get these quotes from because I really haven't heard this before and I live in London where there's a big Muslim community.
Last edited by 'Abd-al Latif; 05-08-2009 at 10:22 AM.
The question is whether you want islamic law implemented on non-Mulsims as well, in the UK.format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Another example is whether you ca accept blasphemy as a part of free speech, same-sex unions etc.
The second question aplies to every religion though.
Brother, only an idiot can expect a fish to live without water.format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
But if muslims are fishes, and shariyah laws are like water to them, than its really amazing that fishes choose to live without water. Have a look of Islamic nations for example.
No one need to expect muslims to live with anything except islamic laws, they have willingly abandoned laws of ALLAH, and replaced it with kufr laws. U need to check out for hard realities regarding muslims.
Doesnt they say that charity starts at home?
What more? See poor talibs being bombed in swat Pakistan alongwith innocent civilians just becoz they wanted to implement shariyah laws? Do U doubt religious identity of bombers?
Last edited by justahumane; 05-08-2009 at 02:58 PM.
Putting ones beliefs before blind loyalty to their country? Isn't that the essence of protest? Of all the major revolutions?format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
If an atheist believed that their morals and conscience conflicted with their country's would they turn against it? :blind:
If you'd followed the link you would see that I got the quote from this forum and it was posted by forum member Alpha Jr. I would also like to know how two polls come up with different results, it could just be simply different questions although it's difficult to get my head around 82% supporting loyalty to the country whilst 20% sympathies with suicide bombers, but then 80/20 does fit the maths?format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Personally yes I do doubt it.What more? See poor talibs being bombed in swat Pakistan alongwith innocent civilians just becoz they wanted to implement shariyah laws? Do U doubt religious identity of bombers?
:enough!:
Al hamdolillah I don't live in the west or else I would have to deal with all this crap daily, it just never stops.
What will the muslims do if such and such happens...
Recent polls show that 99.999% of muslims do this and do that..
GreyKode, polls only ever give the opinion of a cross-section of a population. That's why it is so important for the people conducting the poll to choose their participants carefully - otherwise the outcome can easily be misrepresenting the true picture.
As a non-Muslim I find the poll very informative - because hopefully it widens my understanding of what Muslims think.
I do meet Muslims daily ... but they are only a small minority, and may very well not represent Islam as a whole.
For example, the Muslims in my neighbourhood are all from rural Pakistan. Their views may vary from what Muslims from other areas think and believe. (I am not necessarily speaking about basic Islamic doctrine here, but other views and opinions)
Muslims in this forum clearly represent a wider range of nationalities, but overall the views presented here are conservatively Islamic, more liberal views expressed are often not accepted and I know of more liberal Muslims who have left the forum for that reason.
So I am not sure that the opinions expressed by the majority here in LI (again, I am not necessarily talking about basic Islamic doctrine but other views and opinions) represents the opinions of other Muslims elsewhere.
I found another relating article in The Independent
Here are the basic results:
77% of British Muslims said they strongly identified with the UK (Compared with 50% of the general population)
0% thought that homosexuality was morally acceptable (Compared to 57% of the general population)
76% had confidence in the police (Compared to 67%)
63% thought that the death penalty was morally acceptable (Compared to 50%)
3% believed people belonging to other religions threaten their way of life (Compared to 26%)
3% of British Muslims felt that sex outside marriage was morally acceptable (Compared to 82%)
This last point is interesting, because the poll suggests that there are great differences in opinion on this particular point between Muslims in Britain, France and Germany.
The article offers the following explanation:
If this is the case it would indeed show different interpretations of Islamic laws, depending on geographical area, own culture and upbringing etc.The attitudes of Muslims in France and Germany is very different, where 48 per cent and 27 per cent had no problem with sex outside wedlock. This discrepancy is likely to be caused by the fact that British Muslims mainly originate from rural parts of conservative Islamic countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh and India, whereas French and German Muslims tend to be from Morocco, Algeria and Turkey, where the culture is different.
Any thoughts?
Generally speaking, I'd say forget polls and statistics; go out and meet some actual muslims in person. Engage with them....over a bucket of (halaal) chicken.
Honestly, you cannot go wrong!
Yeah some people don't care about what the question is they just tick one mark up and send it like it was a debt when it isn't it shows how careless how much people are in Europe.
I agree with you, I believe that greater tolerance and harmony would come with more integration but it seems that the Muslims in the UK want to live amongst their kind and I don't mean other Muslims, I mean other people from their country of origin. They each want to create their own mini Pakistan or Somalia rather than integrate. There's is also a nasty comment put about that integration is akin to assimilation like the assimilation seen in Star Trek by the Borg. Sadformat_quote Originally Posted by greenshirt
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