When is it time to give up?

[Re.TiReD]

AssalamuAlaykum

I'd like for both brothers and sisters to reply insha'Allah.

Its quite simple really. So imagine you're considering a bro or a sis for marriage and its time to approach the parents. They say no, they have no grounds for refusal except minor cultural ones. First question, would you take the first no as a final answer? Or would you try to talk them round and pursuade them more?

Would you fight it out until the end, until you got where you wanted or would you reach a stage where you think...At the end of the day we only have one set of parents, people come and go and if they are refusing, maybe there is a reason, some wisdom behind it that we cant see. Which sane person would risk upsetting their parents, who would choose parents over some girl/guy who hasnt done anything for them yet, who hasnt been there for them the same way your parents have. Who would leave their parents with no choice but to accept and then go into a marriage without the parents being fully happy and without their total sincere du'aas?

Am I right in thinking that there comes a point where you just have to give up, marriage is one thing where you cannot and must not choose your happiness over ur parents happiness and them being happy with you.

Am I right or wrong? What would you do?

I'm actually looking for support for the opposing argument, I want to hear I'm wrong. But I do think I'm right.

Kisi Begaane Ki Khaatir Tumne Apno Ko Bhoola Diya.....I think it goes like that. For the sake of a stranger you forsake and forgot your own. [Bolly days were 4 years ago btw, not now alhamdulillah]

JazakAllah khayr

WassalamuAlaykum

[The Ruler]

First question, would you take the first no as a final answer?

No.

Or would you try to talk them round and pursuade them more?

If I'm bothered, yes.

Which sane person would risk upsetting their parents, who would choose parents over some girl/guy who hasnt done anything for them yet, who hasnt been there for them the same way your parents have. Who would leave their parents with no choice but to accept and then go into a marriage without the parents being fully happy and without their total sincere du'aas?

You could get your parents to agree without them getting upset. Why would you leave them with no choice but to accept your marriage? Instead talk and reason with them. Nicely.

Am I right or wrong? What would you do?

The thing is, when it comes to culture, culture orientated parents have a difficult time 'coming around'. So I don't think talking and reasoning with them would help. And the other option is to give up and move on.

[- IqRa -]

I would reply but sister some of us just aren't experience in these fields, and we don't know what to say. It is better to hear constructive advice, of adults, rather than hear advice of teenagers, who don't know any better.

One thing though;

Who would leave their parents with no choice but to accept and then go into a marriage without the parents being fully happy and without their total sincere du'aas?

I don't think a person can be happy with any marriage if their parents aren't happy with it, no matter how much they love the person.

[S_87]

i think you know my answers, but at the end of the day your parents will inshaAllah be happy when they see you happy. that is what they want in the end no? culture multure

[liya]

i would advise u salat istikaraah ... i had a situation like that in which a guy proposed to me and he was gud ,religious and i liked him but wen i praied ... my feelings changed subhanallah .... so belive me salat al istikaraah is the best answer for u !!!! .... its like u asking Allah is this person gud for me ?! so wen Allah answers u ur partents wouldnt hav anything to say inshaallah ...

[Re.TiReD]

Hypothetical insha'Allah.

JazakAllah khayr I just want opinions really. Not even advice

[syilla]

salams...

i just would like to add... hafsah is not really a teenager . She is an adult

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

AssalamuAlaykum
First question, would you take the first no as a final answer? Or would you try to talk them round and pursuade them more?

No, I'd spend time convincing them, Allaah changes the hearts. A first no is generally off the top of the head, but if you spend time convincing them, then you can probably bring parents around. They want to see their children happy, and if they see that marrying person x makes their child happy, they'll eventually agree, insha'Allaah.

I think everything I'd want to say in regards to this has already been summed by the brother that runs this blog:

Salaam alaykum Faiez,

You can’t get married without your parents blessing.

You have four options:
1. Find someone who both you and your parents agree is a good match.
2. Find a match who you like, but they don’t - you then have to decide if this person is worth it to you to be patient and convince them.
3. Marry someone your parents like, but that you don’t - in this case, you have to spend the time to try and turn them to your perspective while learning the ins and outs of a relationship. If you don’t change them, your kids will hold you accountable if they turn out like mom.
4. Lead a celibate life.
You seem to believe option #1 is out, and so too is option #4. You have either option #2 or option #3. I always choose option #2 because I’m not relying on myself to change my parents opinion - I’m working to follow the sunnah, so I turn to and expect Allah subhaanahu wa ta’aala to give me what I’m requesting if it’s good for me. If my intention is good, the girl is good, and the future is bright (only Allah knows), I’m confident it’ll work out. If not, it won’t.
So I wouldn’t stress too much on this. As the saying goes, “Do your best, and leave the rest (to Allah).”
Siraaj

http://muslimbestlife.com/blog/?p=140 ; comment #17

If you can think you can go w/ option #1 then figure out if you think you'll find someone better than the person the parents are not liking because of culture, or if this person is really everything you're looking for in a spouse. That said, at the end of the day if they're completely adamant, absolutely refusing, then just agree with them no matter how tough. They're worth more than any potential spouse.

[liya]

Ooh oky .. i wouldnt choose any1 eles except my partents really cuz for me if i lost my partents love and dua its like im cursed or something to me i think of it like that ... cuz u know u can find a person to love theres alot of fish in the sea lol but partents are something u cant replace they r the reason we r here u get me ...so yh i wud choose them but i will felt hurt insame time ...

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i think you know my answers, but at the end of the day your parents will inshaAllah be happy when they see you happy. that is what they want in the end no? culture multure

yes but only after being extremely upset - whatever happened to not allowing parents to utter "uff" EH?





i think you should have never EVEN CONSIDERED SOMEONE who you even slightly maybe THOUGHT that your parents wouldnt accept.




but since you already jumped into this fire i say ... do wateva feels most halal


Assalamu Alaikum

[ayesha309]

Assalaam u alaikum Sis
I had a similar situation. Just keep doing Salaat Al-Istikhara and do dua to Allah that "Allah, if this is the invididual I'm suppose to marry, then make my parents like him as well, and if this isn't the individual, then take me and my parents away from him"...duas simliar to that. Honestly, Allah listens to duas and you will be surprised at the result. Surprised and satisfied Insha'Allah. so just keep doing dua...ask Allah whether you should give up or not
May Allah make your siutation easy for you....Ameen
Assalaam u alaikum

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

I'd advice you to pray salaat al-istikhaarah, then try your best to get your parents to give the brother a chance. If it doesn't happen, then you know it wasn't meant to be. Allaahu A'lam.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

yes but only after being extremely upset - whatever happened to not allowing parents to utter "uff" EH?





i think you should have never EVEN CONSIDERED SOMEONE who you even slightly maybe THOUGHT that your parents wouldnt accept.




but since you already jumped into this fire i say ... do wateva feels most halal


Assalamu Alaikum

Seriously, what is wrong with what brother Malaak and others said? There's nothing wrong with considering someone, it's wrong if the matter is approached wrongly, and the parents are angered. I don't understand why parents would be angered if there children want the halaal and approach them correctly; with manners.

[Najm]

yes but only after being extremely upset - whatever happened to not allowing parents to utter "uff" EH?





i think you should have never EVEN CONSIDERED SOMEONE who you even slightly maybe THOUGHT that your parents wouldnt accept.




but since you already jumped into this fire i say ... do wateva feels most halal


Assalamu Alaikum

AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

Its easy for us brothers. Even if the brothers accepts a job blindly......We stay with our parents for the rest of our lives.

But the for the sister choosing blindly is a bigger cause of problem. because if the husband side of family doesnt protected wife, then who does she have? She gives up everything. Thats why i think its important to always look for he happiness for the sister rather than the parents.

Parents happiness comes second. Period. Parents job is to guide, not to enforce.

There are too many mummys' boys out there, who just dont care if they get married, while the sister is promised big things and gets nothing, nothing but trouble and lies. Lies and just fussy/pushy parents.....:enough!:

Marriage is with 2 spouses NOT Parents and spouse. Its a decision for life. No going back, only down hill if you choose to.....

Parents: Fear Allah!
Children: Fear Allah!

FiAmaaniAllah

[IbnAbdulHakim]

AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

Its easy for us brothers. Even if the brothers accepts a job blindly......We stay with our parents for the rest of our lives.

But the for the sister choosing blindly is a bigger cause of problem. because if the husband side of family doesnt protected wife, then who does she have? She gives up everything. Thats why i think its important to always look for he happiness for the sister rather than the parents.

Parents happiness comes second. Period. Parents job is to guide, not to enforce.

There are too many mummys' boys out there, who just dont care if they get married, while the sister is promised big things and gets nothing, nothing but trouble and lies. Lies and just fussy/pushy parents.....:enough!:

Marriage is with 2 spouses NOT Parents and spouse. Its a decision for life. No going back, only down hill if you choose to.....

Parents: Fear Allah!
Children: Fear Allah!

FiAmaaniAllah

subhanAllah what an extreme view towards marriage.



ONLY a lack of adhaab and shame would make a child pursue a suitor their parents abhor. PERIOD



and im proud to b a mommy's boy, sue me !


Assalamu Alaikum

[Intisar]

You have to be patient in these types of situations, your parents only want what's best for you at the end of the day. If they want somebody who's of the same culture as you, or comes from a similar background, then you should insha'Allaah take that into account. Because they want a good relationship with the person you intend to marry. After all, that person will become their family too.

I think it's a bit naive to say ''I'm the one marrying this person, not my family'' because like I said they will become family. They're your in laws. You have to see them, interact with them, and your child(ren) will become their grandchildren.

Treat your parents with the utmost respect, and always try to explain things from an Islamic viewpoint because most often than not your parents will have to listen and will take what you say more seriously.

And if you feel that your parents opinion means the most to you, then it's time to give up. If you do so because you don't want to create a rift between your family, then mashaAllaah. Next time you're looking for someone, you can always ask them to help you.

It doesn't have to be an ultimatum with them. You can always find middle ground.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

ONLY a lack of adhaab and shame would make a child pursue a suitor their parents abhor. PERIOD

I think you should clarify that statement. What are the reasons for the parents abhorring a suitor? Is it cultural or is it religious? What if the parents are non-practicing and the child wants a spouse who's practicing, (Hijaabi, Niqaabi or bearded)? Does he obey them and marry a woman who is going to harm his religion and his children? Many parents that come over from overseas have a very narrow view of who their child should marry because of culture, some want their child to marry a cousin from back home and if they don't comply, the parents disown the child. This is a reality. A person has the freedom to say no to a marriage if forced - which is what many parents do not get and force their daughters into marriage to a man the daughter has no liking towards. She may want a man who is religious and practicing and they want someone who's from back home, regardless if he practices or not. The forcing isn't just physical, it can be emotional too and very subtle, and in the case of sisters, it most of the time is. This isn't a black and white issue, and it shouldn't be looked at in that way, and Allaah knows best.

Once Ibn 'Umar came to the Prophet (saw) and said that his father had asked him to divorce his wife. The Prophet (saw) told him to obey his father and divorce his wife. Later on, during the time of Imaam Ahmad, the hadeeth that spoke of this incident was known to him and to his students. So a man came to him and told Imaam Ahmad that his father had commanded him to divorce his wife. Imaam Ahmad said that the man did not have to divorce her. Later, his students asked him, why did he give a ruling like that when there is a hadeeth that clearly states the opposite. Imaam Ahmad replied, "If his father was 'Umar, I'd tell him to divorce his wife." Imaam Ahmad took into account the parent and the reasons why the father of the man asked him to divorce his wife.

The point is, sometimes parents will have a completely different outlook - one that is just cultural and has no basis in Islaam. If a suitor is righteous, and the parents are refusing for a non-religious basis, then what harm is there if the man or woman takes the time to convince his parents? (The OP said: "minor cultural ones", so it's not even about parents abhorring the suitor here.)

Parents happiness comes second. Period.

I don't agree with this part either. It doesn't have to be a case of her or them, a lot of times the two parties can be reconciled happily. I don't think a person should ever marry someone at the expense of their parent's happiness - meaning that the parents are completely, adamantly, absolutely against the marriage, if they are just accept that this marriage is not good for you because you're being prevented from it by Allaah through your parents and move on. It's not worth it for either a man or a woman. Your parents reared you and took care of you and have a love for you that no other person can have, that love shouldn't be traded away.

[S_87]

ONLY a lack of adhaab and shame would make a child pursue a suitor their parents abhor. PERIOD




Assalamu Alaikum

parents ABHORING a suitor is a whole different matter imo

[Re.TiReD]

salams...

i just would like to add... hafsah is not really a teenager . She is an adult

Wa'alaykum As-Salaam

Maybe I'm being totally random but my brain is only awake enough to laugh at this post masha'Allah. I'll be out of my teenage years soon insha'Allah

Ok actually, lemme give it some substance.

These are some of my random thoughts, continuing from the first post:

The only thing beyond my comprehension at the moment is this. I know that parents have every right to say no to a proposal. but to say no without even doing a background check, without giving anything a chance?

I believe that if parents gave the dude and his family a chance, and after that they saw something they didnt like, that'd be fine...or its even possible the dudes family might see something they dont like and things might not go ahead for that reason, in which case there is nothing to do but thank Allah that you realised before it was too late. But to not even give it a chance? Rabbi Inni Maghloobun fantasir

What does one do when they feel they have given things their best shot, and feel as though they'd only be content with a no from the parents if they agreed to give it a chance at least? Just one chance. The least one can do is it not?

Personally, I'd only be completely satisfied and content with Qadr if they pullled out all the stops from their end too (parents that is). Just like the courage it takes to talk about certain things with them..

[Ummu Sufyaan]

AssalamuAlaykum

wa alaykum us-Salaam

Its quite simple really. So imagine you're considering a bro or a sis for marriage and its time to approach the parents. They say no, they have no grounds for refusal except minor cultural ones.
First question, would you take the first no as a final answer?

it depends. if they are legit cultural reasons eg bro x isn't suited for you becuase people in that culture are known to have lack of akhlaaq, then yes i would agree with them and leave it a that. for me personally, if i see logic in something (and yes that would be logical), i would go with what is logcal and yes! i consider my family to be logical so there would be no probs there, inshallah .

if it isn't legit such as bro x isnt suited for you because our culture is more superior then theirs (not that they would think that) or what they heck are people gna think if we marry our daughter to a guy of such and such culture, then no i would peruse it, becuase to me, that isn't legit. having said that though, persuading in the most respectful and kind matter. in a manner that i dont raise my voice over theirs eg show frustration, bad attitude "gimme my way or else..."...basically as gentle as possible. i would present it to them logically and in a way they understand my point of view.
i would (if necessary) get other involved an older sibling involved, for eg. if that isn't to be the convincing thing, i would take it as far as to the local imam lol to sort it out. when they see that i have involved another person (even if it aint an imam), they will stop and think ok she is not kidding, we should consider what she is saying and that would probs be a doorway to get them convinced.

so now if the imam agrees with me, then im more than sure than that would be the convincing thing for them so prob solved, alhamdulillah!

if they are still not convinced hmm i think it'll go either way---> i may or may not go ahead with it. i would want to but the thought of them being really upset with me, would pinch my conscious. hard

you know, i think it also comes down to the relationship of the kids with their parents as well. i dno for some parents they may say no but then later on be lenient when they see that the potential is good..or that their son/daughter are happy with them. some parents are ok with their kids choosing their own spouse even if the parents may dislike them, the parents may still be leniant.


i duno cases like this remind me of that 40 yr old woman who never got married cos her dad kept rejecting every potential becuase the mahr want high enough even though the guys were good...cases like that (and even cultral cases) should be taken to a qahdi or something. you know, she either ends up as a spinster or marries someone her family want, but she cant stand....its really sad.

Would you fight it out until the end, until you got where you wanted or would you reach a stage where you think...At the end of the day we only have one set of parents, people come and go and if they are refusing, maybe there is a reason, some wisdom behind it that we cant see.

true, and that's why sometimes we should get others involved eg elder to talk to us/our parents.

Am I right in thinking that there comes a point where you just have to give up, marriage is one thing where you cannot and must not choose your happiness over ur parents happiness and them being happy with you.

no! there has to be, there just HAS to be someone where both you AND your parents are happy with.

You could get your parents to agree without them getting upset. Why would you leave them with no choice but to accept your marriage? Instead talk and reason with them. Nicely.

agreed.

Parents happiness comes second. Period.

rubbish!!! that is a really insulting thing to say about parents.

Parents job is to guide, not to enforce.

yes, but you don't just go "dump" them or think ill of them or think you dont need them anymore when you have found "a better life..." rather disgusting.

There are too many mummys' boys out there, who just dont care if they get married,

surely you can be good to your mother AND wife at the same time. surely! the way i look at it, is that there are times in your marital life where your mother takes priority and there are times where your wife takes priority. mothers don't raise kids to be slapped in the face and fathers/walis don't give away their daughters away to be cheated/deceived/neglected/ignored. the brother has to be mature on how to deal with such issues. your mother has rights over you and so does you wife. be mature and know how to handle it so that both are happy, inshallah...

while the sister is promised big things and gets nothing, nothing but trouble and lies. Lies and just fussy/pushy parents.....:enough!:

i agree with that. deception is not the way to go! being open and honest is. treat others how you want to be treated.

Marriage is with 2 spouses NOT Parents and spouse.

yes it is. your in-laws aren't there to marry their kid off to you and that's it they become like trash after that...not at all..

parents ABHORING a suitor is a whole different matter imo

agreed...